Charisma based bard


Advice

Shadow Lodge

I'm looking at a bard as a PFS character who concentrates on using CHA based abilities to buff/debuff. I am honestly not sure how viable this is.

Race: Probably Half Elf, would listen to a good argument for gnome or human. Will trade Multi talented for Arcane Training if half elf

Stats: (20 pt build)
Str 10 or 8
Dex 14
Con 14
Int 10 or 12
Wis 10 or 8
Cha 18 (+2 buff)

Archtype: Street performer
Spells: Good on this.
Skills: have questions about the substitution on Versatile Performance, and Streetwise bonuses. Do they stack?

Feats: I fear I may be taking underpowered feats for maximum exploitation.
If Half Elf Skill focus: Performance (Acting, Comedy, or Oratory)
1st: lingering performance,
3rd: Eldritch Heritage: Maestro (If half elf, if not go to 5th level options)
Either: 5th: Antagonize
or level dip into fighter at 4th for weapon specialization and then dazzeling display
7th and 9th good options that avoid feat taxes. Wish to avoid melee as much as possible.


I am not too terribly familiar with good bard builds, but for a debuff bard, you may want to consider the Court Bard. Being that a lot of your best abilities as a bard come from sticking with bard, I would recommend not multi-classing into fighter (losing 4 levels of bard is 2 spell levels and bardic performance options). If you want a mutli-class option, Witch may be better for a dip for a hex or 2, and it also meshes well with a good intelligence score (which you could get by dropping wis and dex).

As a completely separate note, when I read the title of your post, my coffee-addled brain saw: Charisma based beard :P

Shadow Lodge

Stabbington P. Carvesworthy wrote:
Being that a lot of your best abilities as a bard come from sticking with bard, I would recommend not multi-classing into fighter (losing 4 levels of bard is 2 spell levels and bardic performance options).

Were is the four levels coming from? I'm talking one level at 4th to get the ability to intimidate everyone in front of me within 30 feet in front of me without using a bardic performance. I'm leaning that way truthfully.

Stabbington P. Carvesworthy wrote:
As a completely separate note, when I read the title of your post, my coffee-addled brain saw: Charisma based beard :P

LOL.


Kerney wrote:
Stabbington P. Carvesworthy wrote:
Being that a lot of your best abilities as a bard come from sticking with bard, I would recommend not multi-classing into fighter (losing 4 levels of bard is 2 spell levels and bardic performance options).

Were is the four levels coming from? I'm talking one level at 4th to get the ability to intimidate everyone in front of me within 30 feet in front of me without using a bardic performance. I'm leaning that way truthfully.

Stabbington P. Carvesworthy wrote:
As a completely separate note, when I read the title of your post, my coffee-addled brain saw: Charisma based beard :P
LOL.

You mentioned dipping into fighter for weapon specialization. You need to have 4 levels of fighter before you can get that not just have 4 character levels, at least one of them being a fighter level.

Shadow Lodge

Caius wrote:
Kerney wrote:
Stabbington P. Carvesworthy wrote:
Being that a lot of your best abilities as a bard come from sticking with bard, I would recommend not multi-classing into fighter (losing 4 levels of bard is 2 spell levels and bardic performance options).

Were is the four levels coming from? I'm talking one level at 4th to get the ability to intimidate everyone in front of me within 30 feet in front of me without using a bardic performance. I'm leaning that way truthfully.

Stabbington P. Carvesworthy wrote:
As a completely separate note, when I read the title of your post, my coffee-addled brain saw: Charisma based beard :P
LOL.
You mentioned dipping into fighter for weapon specialization. You need to have 4 levels of fighter before you can get that not just have 4 character levels, at least one of them being a fighter level.

My mistake. I meant weapon focus. I don't work with fighter builds very often and I went from fuzzy memory off top of my head and mixed up feats.

Unfortunately I can't do Dazzeling display/weapon focus at first level due to the BAB requirement or it would be a good arguement for Human.

Shadow Lodge

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You don't need any levels of fighter to take Weapon Focus and Dazzling Display, just be willing to invest the feats.

I would reconsider Eldritch Heritage (Maestro). The class ability you gain is just Daze as a spell-like ability; yes, it has no cap on HD eventually, but chances are you've got better things to do than dazing the enemy for a round. If not, take the Daze spell instead. Or just Fascinate your opponent.

If you're going the route of the half-elf Street Performer bard using Dazzling Display, here's the feats and powers I'd choose:

1: Lingering Performance, Skill Focus: Perform(Comedy).
2: Versatile Performance (Comedy becomes Bluff and Intimidate)
3: Weapon Focus (Shortbow)
5: Dazzling Display (using that awesome Comedy skill)
6: Versatile Performance (Oratory becomes Diplomacy and Sense Motive)
7: Antagonize (But beware errata! Expect this not to work the way you want to, eventually!) or Spell Focus or Spell Penetration

Shadow Lodge

InVinoVeritas wrote:

You don't need any levels of fighter to take Weapon Focus and Dazzling Display, just be willing to invest the feats.

I would reconsider Eldritch Heritage (Maestro). The class ability you gain is just Daze as a spell-like ability; yes, it has no cap on HD eventually, but chances are you've got better things to do than dazing the enemy for a round. If not, take the Daze spell instead. Or just Fascinate your opponent.

If you're going the route of the half-elf Street Performer bard using Dazzling Display, here's the feats and powers I'd choose:

1: Lingering Performance, Skill Focus: Perform(Comedy).
2: Versatile Performance (Comedy becomes Bluff and Intimidate)
3: Weapon Focus (Shortbow)
5: Dazzling Display (using that awesome Comedy skill)
6: Versatile Performance (Oratory becomes Diplomacy and Sense Motive)
7: Antagonize (But beware errata! Expect this not to work the way you want to, eventually!) or Spell Focus or Spell Penetration

I agree with you about thinking of dumping Eldritch Heritage. Right now I'm thinking--

1: Lingering Performance, Skill Focus: Perform(Comedy).
2: Versatile Performance (Comedy becomes Bluff and Intimidate)
3: (Fighter level)Weapon Focus and Dazzling display
5: Antagonize
7: Versatile Performance (Oratory or perhaps Dance instead?)
7: Spell focus? Spell Penetration? Something else?

Sovereign Court

If you go human you get that extra feat which could help you get this done in a different route. The loss of skill focus isnt the end of the world humans get those extra skill points too. I would go with whip for the dazzling display route if I were you. Using combat maneuvers is a way to debuff also and an effective one too since the whip has range and you wont need the feats. That said I would rearrange your stats a bit I have an idea for you check out the stats and feats below.

Human
16
14
12
10
8
16 (+2 racial)

feats
1st, lingering performance, intimidating prowess
third, (fighter) weapon focus whip, dazzling display

Intimidating prowess allows you to add your Str mod to the intimidate check. You should be able to pump this up and get it to work often. You could go straight bard but would have to wait until 5th level and later for antagonize if you want that as well. If you plan to antagonize things it will be helpful to have mirror image spell once you hit 2nd level bard spells. Just another approach I thought of let me know what you think?


I can comment a bit on the usage of Dazzling Display in practice.

As a bard, you will find that a given round of combat presents many competing choices for you, and that Dazzling Display may never happen. Here are all the things you may want to do in a round:

1) You probably want to start a performance (standard).
2) You may want to cast a spell.
3) You may want to move.
4) You may want to do a miscellaneous action that is useful in that particular combat (get this or that item, heal a PC, aid another, etc.)

In my experience, Dazzling Display is rarely one of those 4 things. It's hard to give up a full action for it. In a lot of cases, combat is over by the time you do it, or it's not relevant, or you're not close enough to affect all of your targets, or your opponents are immune to the effect.

I've found it worthwhile to intimidate at low levels where every character sucks anyway, and giving a -2 to even ONE creature (without the feat expenditure) is worth it as an action. At 3rd-5th level, Dazzling Display is probably useful and fun. After that, things kill you a lot (if you've devoted all your resources to being a buffer, like you have) when you're within a 30' range, even with a -2 debuff.

YMMV.

Rubia

Grand Lodge

Bards are fine in PFS. Everyone likes the bardic music buff to hit and damage. You can also work as an emergency healer. I would go human, the extra skill point means you can get by with INT 10.

I would agree that Dazzling Display is something that I would skip as a bard. You also don't want to multclass because you have a slow spell progression already.


sieylianna wrote:

Bards are fine in PFS. Everyone likes the bardic music buff to hit and damage. You can also work as an emergency healer. I would go human, the extra skill point means you can get by with INT 10.

I would agree that Dazzling Display is something that I would skip as a bard. You also don't want to multclass because you have a slow spell progression already.

I should also point out that I played a caster bard in PFS. And by caster bard, I mean I "played a bard like a wizard" and totally focused on spells.

It's a glorious ride. Hard as hell, frustrating immunities, and low level spell slots against the denizens of evil. You've got an answer to everything (but not always a good answer). You're burning spells left and right to just have a CHANCE to win this thing and OMG why the hell did the barbarian just do that!?!

And it's GREAT. At the end of a day, you're out of spells, you're exhausted, you and your party been beaten to within an inch of death. It's not instant win, but those will be the tables you'll remember. The tables where you almost, but didn't quite, die.

Rubia

Shadow Lodge

Pan wrote:

If you go human you get that extra feat which could help you get this done in a different route. The loss of skill focus isnt the end of the world humans get those extra skill points too. I would go with whip for the dazzling display route if I were you. Using combat maneuvers is a way to debuff also and an effective one too since the whip has range and you wont need the feats.

Just another approach I thought of let me know what you think?

It's a good idea. It's so good my summoner (another half elf) went Ancestral arms (whip) Combat expertise, Improved trip, 14 str (and a trait that let her use a compound long bow). It's close enough to what I did with that character that I don't want to use a whip with this character, even though I agree whips rock.

Rubia wrote:


I can comment a bit on the usage of Dazzling Display in practice.

As a bard, you will find that a given round of combat presents many competing choices for you, and that Dazzling Display may never happen. Here are all the things you may want to do in a round:

1) You probably want to start a performance (standard).
2) You may want to cast a spell.
3) You may want to move.
4) You may want to do a miscellaneous action that is useful in that particular combat (get this or that item, heal a PC, aid another, etc.)

In my experience, Dazzling Display is rarely one of those 4 things. It's hard to give up a full action for it.

My thought/underlying strategy with this character.

Round 1 start a 1 round performance, with lingering performance it's good for 3 rounds.
Round 2 follow up w/Dazzleing display. At level 3 it's 4 Cha+3 Skill focus+3 skill levels+2 streetwise bard archtype feature (assuming I'm targeting more than one target)=+12 or use spell or antagonize. If immune, go to spells or wands.


Kerney wrote:
Pan wrote:

If you go human you get that extra feat which could help you get this done in a different route. The loss of skill focus isnt the end of the world humans get those extra skill points too. I would go with whip for the dazzling display route if I were you. Using combat maneuvers is a way to debuff also and an effective one too since the whip has range and you wont need the feats.

Just another approach I thought of let me know what you think?

It's a good idea. It's so good my summoner (another half elf) went Ancestral arms (whip) Combat expertise, Improved trip, 14 str (and a trait that let her use a compound long bow). It's close enough to what I did with that character that I don't want to use a whip with this character, even though I agree whips rock.

Rubia wrote:


I can comment a bit on the usage of Dazzling Display in practice.

As a bard, you will find that a given round of combat presents many competing choices for you, and that Dazzling Display may never happen. Here are all the things you may want to do in a round:

1) You probably want to start a performance (standard).
2) You may want to cast a spell.
3) You may want to move.
4) You may want to do a miscellaneous action that is useful in that particular combat (get this or that item, heal a PC, aid another, etc.)

In my experience, Dazzling Display is rarely one of those 4 things. It's hard to give up a full action for it.

My thought/underlying strategy with this character.

Round 1 start a 1 round performance, with lingering performance it's good for 3 rounds.
Round 2 follow up w/Dazzleing display. At level 3 it's 4 Cha+3 Skill focus+3 skill levels+2 streetwise bard archtype feature (assuming I'm targeting more than one target)=+12 or use spell or antagonize. If immune, go to spells or wands.

It's a good idea at low levels, as I said. For higher levels, YMMV. Remember that you need to be within 30' of the ENEMIES to dazzle them. And you have to do that with only 5' of movement on that turn, since Dazzling Display is a full-round action. Mull it over.


One of my favorite characters I've ever played was my tiefling bard. The build could easily be tweaked a bit for a half-elf (and get more feats in the process).

Here's an example build to level 5.
Half-elf Bard (Sandman archetype)

Str 10
Dex 14
Con 12
Int 14
Wis 8
Cha 18

Traits: Charming, Keeper of the Veil
Skills: Bluff, Disguise, Diplomacy, Intimidate, Stealth, Perception, Sense Motive, Perform (Act)

Feats:
1st: Skill Focus (Disguise), Deceitful
3rd: Eldritch Heritage (Rakshasa)
5th: Spellsong

You will excel at any social situation, and through proper usage of spells you can impersonate pretty much anyone with your massive Disguise check.

5 ranks +4 Charisma +3 class skill +3 Skill Focus +2 Master of Deception +1 trait +2 Disguise kit +10 Disguise Self spell +20 Alter Self spell +10 Vocal Alteration spell = +60 to Disguise. You can be anyone you want to be.

You'll also have a pretty high Bluff check to back up your disguise. And through Spellsong, you'll be able to do something like start a Fascinate performance through Perform (Act), then slip a Charm Person into the performance.

Shadow Lodge

Rubia wrote:

I should also point out that I played a caster bard in PFS. And by caster bard, I mean I "played a bard like a wizard" and totally focused on spells.

It's a glorious ride. Hard as hell, frustrating immunities, and low level spell slots against the denizens of evil. You've got an answer to everything (but not always a good answer). You're burning spells left and right to just have a CHANCE to win this thing and OMG why the hell did the barbarian just do that!?!

And it's GREAT. At the end of a day, you're out of spells, you're exhausted, you and your party been beaten to within an inch of death. It's not instant win, but those will be the tables you'll remember. The tables where you almost, but didn't quite, die.

Rubia

What did you do, just out of curiosity. No, I don't want to copy, but I'm thinking what to do w/o dazzeling display, empathizing skill syncranization (I still believe an effective +3 to 3 key skills is better than any one feat) and spells.

BTW, your answers have been most helpful.


I can't help with the build but I will suggest speaking to your DM about Versatile Performance. Currently, as soon as you get the VP talent, either the skill points invested in the 2 associated skills are wasted or, you don't invest in those skills and are terrible at them until you get VP.

It has been questioned (on the forums) and unofficial answers given. My DM took VP away and simply gave me 2 extra skill points at each level. Also suggested was the ability to redistribute the spent points as and when VP became available.

Hope this helps. :)

Shadow Lodge

MacFetus wrote:

I can't help with the build but I will suggest speaking to your DM about Versatile Performance. Currently, as soon as you get the VP talent, either the skill points invested in the 2 associated skills are wasted or, you don't invest in those skills and are terrible at them until you get VP.

It has been questioned (on the forums) and unofficial answers given. My DM took VP away and simply gave me 2 extra skill points at each level. Also suggested was the ability to redistribute the spent points as and when VP became available.

Hope this helps. :)

Umm....Like I said, it's pathfinder society.


Kerney wrote:


What did you do, just out of curiosity. No, I don't want to copy, but I'm thinking what to do w/o dazzeling display, empathizing skill syncranization (I still believe an effective +3 to 3 key skills is better than any one feat) and spells.

BTW, your answers have been most helpful.

Copy away! It's the best form of flattery! :) The advice below is strictly excitement for my build. You are not required to build it. (But then, why wouldn't you, because IT'S AWESOME!!!)

First off, I don't think I ever ran out of bardic performances at any level, ever. Or maybe like once at level 1 or 2. Use those bardic performances with wild abandon!

I built my CHA as my primary stat, with a 19 or 20 at 1st level. Nowadays, I'd use the sound striker archetype since it's quite useful in the middle range when you may suffer growing pains.

I'd take PBS and precise shot (either early or later on your choice) for the sound striker stuff. Since you have knowledge of everything, you only have to ask one question: does it have DR? If the answer is no, then weird word it to death.

Emphasize skills. Take Lingering Spell since it synergizes well with the Finale line of spells. Skill Focus (Perform) is utter hotness on a stick. 3 skill focuses for a single feat? Yessir, sign me the hell up.

I've looked over the bard spell list extensively, and I think this grouping is quite versatile:

0) Detect Magic, Mage Hand, Light (or Dancing Lights), Mending, Message, Solid Note
1) Feather Fall, Grease, Hideous Laughter, Saving Finale, Vanish
2) Distracting Cacophony, Gallant Inspiration, Glitterdust, Suggestion
3) Confusion, Dispel Magic, Good Hope
4) So much good stuff that you cry.

Now that makes this character fairly dependent on will saves, but the non-will save stuff is mostly not worth it, in my opinion. Maybe ear-piercing scream.

There are other ways to design a good list, but be careful that the spells you are choosing aren't best known in scroll form (say if they don't need save DCs or aren't caster based). At least one spell in each level per combat should be useful all the time. And that is the mark of happy pandas.

Buff with performances, debuff with spells, and when you get dirge of doom, it's almost as good as +2 DC on all your spells (and then switch back to Inspire Courage)! There's a feat that does that while casting -- can't remember the name offhand.

Get rods of persistence (great metamagic feat) and quicken spell, all lesser because your spells are mostly 3rd and less, and suddenly, getting fewer high level spells isn't so bad. . . .

You will run yourself down to almost nothing in spells. Daily. At every character level. And it is glorious to be scared to death of what will happen when you've got no spells left.

Your skills will be high regardless, since you're a bard with bardy stuff that makes it better. You'll get a ton of skill points anyway, and you can make it even better with high int and/or human. And you get versatile performance on top of that.

Take UMD and max it. I promise you will love being able to use EVERYTHING. Wand of Magic Missle (caster level 3 or 5) is a great option for those middle ranges. And you can probably auto-use it with your high CHA.

Don't forget that you can carry scrolls for ANY class, since your UMD is super high. Don't be shy. Take that awesome spell from class X on a scroll! You can!

So basically, you get tons of skills for free (so you rock social and knowledge encounters), you can fake being a ranged character with 3/4 BAB for free (or a few feats if you want to be better) and you're a serviceable caster if you focus on it hardcore. And you can wear armor. And you can buff better than anyone. Oh, and you're sexier than any other character that exists.

Damn, this sounds so good, I'm going to have to make ANOTHER PFS BARD!!!

Best take-home advice I can give is this: Embrace the role of jack of all trades. Focus on one aspect of the bard's strengths, but don't neglect the other parts. The versatility and means to address problems will astound you.

Rubia

P.S. Also, you can be effective and fun and no one think you have a broken character. You make them kick butt, and other players like winning. But secretly, you know that it is you!

Grand Lodge

Kerney wrote:
Round 2 follow up w/Dazzleing display. At level 3 it's 4 Cha+3 Skill focus+3 skill levels+2 streetwise bard archtype feature (assuming I'm targeting more than one target)=+12 or use spell or antagonize. If immune, go to spells or wands.

It's possible that it's some archetype that I'm not familiar with, but otherwise it doesn't look like you can get Dazzling Display until 5th level (as a straight bard). Dazzling Display requires Weapon Focus which requires a +1 BAB. So you'd have to take Weapon Focus at 3rd to get Dazzling Display at 5th level. I don't think it's worth two feats at that point.

Liberty's Edge

Unless you find yourself using the SAME weapon CONSTANTLY, don't take Weapon Focus as a bard if you do not have Improved Initiative first. Bards usually fire a ranged weapon, but lack the feats (i.e., Precise Shot) to employ it ubiquitously.

(DEX:16 halfling with a +2 trait and Improved Initiative is +9 to INIT to get off Inspire Courage right away ...something to consider if you want to be the best party-buffer you can be.)

BTW, if you do take a small race, don't bother with Dazzling Display because small races have a -4 size penalty to Intimidate larger foes.

Shadow Lodge

sieylianna wrote:
Kerney wrote:
Round 2 follow up w/Dazzleing display. At level 3 it's 4 Cha+3 Skill focus+3 skill levels+2 streetwise bard archtype feature (assuming I'm targeting more than one target)=+12 or use spell or antagonize. If immune, go to spells or wands.
It's possible that it's some archetype that I'm not familiar with, but otherwise it doesn't look like you can get Dazzling Display until 5th level (as a straight bard). Dazzling Display requires Weapon Focus which requires a +1 BAB. So you'd have to take Weapon Focus at 3rd to get Dazzling Display at 5th level. I don't think it's worth two feats at that point.

At this point I was thinking about taking a level of fighter at level 3. I'm not going to be doing that.

Archtype I was thinking about at that point was Street Performer, which I'm reconsidering and leaning away from. Would love opinions on that.

Mike Schneider wrote:

(DEX:16 halfling with a +2 trait and Improved Initiative is +9 to INIT to get off Inspire Courage right away ...something to consider if you want to be the best party-buffer you can be.)

Thanks to everyone so far.

BTW, if you do take a small race, don't bother with Dazzling Display because small races have a -4 size penalty to Intimidate larger foes.

That's a good argument for human rather than Halfling IMHO. As for small races in general, gnome sounds better because if I'm going to be antagonizing foes the extra HP seems more worthwhile. 20 speed seems to be a major drawback in either case.

IMHO Human or half elfw/
Str 10
Dex 14
Con 14
Int 12 or 10
Wis 8 or 10
Cha 18

Traits: Reactive, Trouper
Feats: 1st Lingering Performance, Improved Initiative or Skill focus (perform) (depending on race)
3rd Antagonize or Improved Initiative
5th Spellsong? (I think that's the feat Rubia had in mind) or Antagonize
Spell focus and Greater spell focus enchantment?)

Shadow Lodge

Mike Schneider wrote:

Unless you find yourself using the SAME weapon CONSTANTLY, don't take Weapon Focus as a bard if you do not have Improved Initiative first. Bards usually fire a ranged weapon, but lack the feats (i.e., Precise Shot) to employ it ubiquitously.

(DEX:16 halfling with a +2 trait and Improved Initiative is +9 to INIT to get off Inspire Courage right away ...something to consider if you want to be the best party-buffer you can be.)

BTW, if you do take a small race, don't bother with Dazzling Display because small races have a -4 size penalty to Intimidate larger foes.

I disagree. Improved Initiative is so popular in so many builds, you're no longer angling to go before the opponents, but your fellow Improved-Initiative PCs.

Besides, I've always, always found that to the question, "Who goes first?" the best answer isn't "Me" but "I don't care."

Shadow Lodge

InVinoVeritas wrote:


I disagree. Improved Initiative is so popular in so many builds, you're no longer angling to go before the opponents, but your fellow Improved-Initiative PCs.

Besides, I've always, always found that to the question, "Who goes first?" the best answer isn't "Me" but "I don't care."

Good point, 3rd level might be soon enough to get it should I decide to go for it.


If you are looking at multiclassing, get a level of Fey Sorcerer. Mage Armor, Shield, True Strike(use with a whip to trip or disarm), +2 DC on all charm(compulsion) spell(which the bard list has a lot of), and laughing touch.

Liberty's Edge

Quote:

IMHO Human or half elf w/

Str 10
Dex 14
Con 14
Int 12 or 10
Wis 8 or 10
Cha 18

Try this for a 20pt human bard:

STR:07 -4
DEX:16 10
CON:14 5
INT:12 2
WIS:10 -
CHA+17 7 (all bumps)

01 figh1 Weapon Finesse*, Dervish Dance*, Rapid Reload.
02 bard1 ...etc.

armor: chainshirt upgraded to mithril agile breastplate
ranged weapon: light crossbow
melee weapon: scimitar*

-- This combination makes the best use of your desire not to get hurt (i.e., high DEX) while utilizing your class' numerical bonuses to damage (i.e., increased threat range weapons).

(*Alternatively, write off melee capability entirely and take PBS and Rapid Shot or Precise Shot with the other at 3rd. When in melee involuntarily, withdraw or Vanish.)

You will of course need to acquire a haversack and an efficient quiver as soon as possible.


Mike Schneider wrote:
Quote:

IMHO Human or half elf w/

Str 10
Dex 14
Con 14
Int 12 or 10
Wis 8 or 10
Cha 18

Try this for a 20pt human bard:

STR:07 -4
DEX:16 10
CON:14 5
INT:12 2
WIS:10 -
CHA+17 7 (all bumps)

01 figh1 Weapon Finesse*, Dervish Dance*, Rapid Reload.
02 bard1 ...etc.

armor: chainshirt upgraded to mithril agile breastplate
ranged weapon: light crossbow
melee weapon: scimitar*

-- This combination makes the best use of your desire not to get hurt (i.e., high DEX) while utilizing your class' numerical bonuses to damage (i.e., increased threat range weapons).

(*Alternatively, write off melee capability entirely and take PBS and Rapid Shot or Precise Shot with the other at 3rd. When in melee involuntarily, withdraw or Vanish.)

You will of course need to acquire a haversack and an efficient quiver as soon as possible.

Side note, if you get the Armor Expert Trait, you have a 0 armor check penalty in studded leather, master work chain shirt, and mithril breast plate. So there is not need to get the Agile version.

Also, bards are not proficient in medium armor. Mithril Breastplate counts as light armor, but requires the medium armor profiency to wear without penalty.

Shadow Lodge

Mike Schneider wrote:


01 figh1 Weapon Finesse*, Dervish Dance*, Rapid Reload.
02 bard1 ...etc.

armor: chainshirt upgraded to mithril agile breastplate
ranged weapon: light crossbow
melee weapon: scimitar*

Quick thing, Dervish Dance requires two levels perform (Dance).

Still, you and Charender are giving me a lot to think about (So much I'm thinking of two characters now), suddenly I'm thinking Fighter 1 Ranger 2, Rogue 1.

I'm curious as to cons regarding taking the level of sorcerer.


Kerney wrote:
Mike Schneider wrote:


01 figh1 Weapon Finesse*, Dervish Dance*, Rapid Reload.
02 bard1 ...etc.

armor: chainshirt upgraded to mithril agile breastplate
ranged weapon: light crossbow
melee weapon: scimitar*

Quick thing, Dervish Dance requires two levels perform (Dance).

Still, you and Charender are giving me a lot to think about (So much I'm thinking of two characters now), suddenly I'm thinking Fighter 1 Ranger 2, Rogue 1.

I'm curious as to cons regarding taking the level of sorcerer.

You lose 1 BAB, it sets your bard spell and ability progression back by a level, and you have to worry about spell failure when casting your sorcerer spell in armor.

Yes, Dervish Dance requires 2 ranks in Perform(Dance), so you cannot get it until level 3. It also requires you off hand be empty, so no shield or buckler.

If you are looking at a figher/rogue type, look at going Ranger/Alchemist(Vivisectionist)

Liberty's Edge

Charender wrote:
Mike Schneider wrote:

01 figh1 Weapon Finesse*, Dervish Dance*, Rapid Reload.

02 bard1 ...etc.

Also, bards are not proficient in medium armor. Mithril Breastplate counts as light armor, but requires the medium armor profiency to wear without penalty.

Thus one fighter level.

Shadow Lodge

Leaning
Human
Str 10, Dex 14, Con 14, Int 12, Wis 8, Cha 18
Bard 1
Feats, spell focus enchantment, lingering performance
Sorc 1 fey bloodline
Bard 2 greater spell focus enchantment
Then bard all the way with some sort of combination of feats we've talked about.

Grand Lodge

Kerney wrote:

Leaning

Human
Str 10, Dex 14, Con 14, Int 12, Wis 8, Cha 18
Bard 1
Feats, spell focus enchantment, lingering performance
Sorc 1 fey bloodline
Bard 2 greater spell focus enchantment
Then bard all the way with some sort of combination of feats we've talked about.

You definitely want to go Bard 1, Bard 2 before Sorcerer to get the +1 BAB. Not being able to draw a weapon without using a move action is a huge pain, no matter what class you are.

And I'm not that thrilled with the Sorcerer multiclass. I'd look at Oracle (Battle) - gives you medium armor proficiency and if you take the War Sight revelation, you can roll twice for initiative and take the higher of the two. There are other mysteries which could help - for instance, Life - Channel 6 x day.


Rubia wrote:
sieylianna wrote:

Bards are fine in PFS. Everyone likes the bardic music buff to hit and damage. You can also work as an emergency healer. I would go human, the extra skill point means you can get by with INT 10.

I would agree that Dazzling Display is something that I would skip as a bard. You also don't want to multclass because you have a slow spell progression already.

I should also point out that I played a caster bard in PFS. And by caster bard, I mean I "played a bard like a wizard" and totally focused on spells.

It's a glorious ride. Hard as hell, frustrating immunities, and low level spell slots against the denizens of evil. You've got an answer to everything (but not always a good answer). You're burning spells left and right to just have a CHANCE to win this thing and OMG why the hell did the barbarian just do that!?!

And it's GREAT. At the end of a day, you're out of spells, you're exhausted, you and your party been beaten to within an inch of death. It's not instant win, but those will be the tables you'll remember. The tables where you almost, but didn't quite, die.

Rubia

I played a caster bard once. My experience wasn't exactly that, but I just wanted to say this post was entertaining. A+

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