Actually, I'm outright mocking the suggestion of discrimination.
Obviously. But this doesn't make the analogy you keep repeating any more valid or appropriate.
If you remember, we were discussing this:
Do you also feel slighted when you have to wait in line at a store, because other people got there first?
The discrimination thing is something from another poster.
This has come up over and over. In fact, if you'll dig about in the archives (probably under customer support), you'll find that I've brought it up in the past.
However, sometimes, things just are what they are.
In this case, the process is less than optimal for you. But you know what? It's less than optimal for me too, and for lots of people. However, optimizing a process is not free.
Yes, Paizo could take actions to change the process and make it optimal in the sense that every subscriber gets their PDFs at the same time. But that would not have zero cost - it would change other things - for example, they could pull every single person on the Paizo staff to work the warehouse on release day. Or they could delay all PDFs until all orders are shipped. But there is no magic solution that will give every subscriber their PDF on the first day with no cost in other areas. Realizing this, I changed what I could change - my attitude.
Its the same attitude I have when driving in traffic. Yes, I could be 100% type A and froth at the mouth about being moments later to my destination because someone cut me off. Or I could realize that in the overall scope of things, it really doesn't matter all that much.
So here's my suggestion. Pause for a moment and think about what the actual effect is from getting the PDF later than the very first person who gets it. What actual impact does it have on your life? To blatantly steal a quote that I like:
If you don't like something, change it; if you can't change it, change the way you think about it.
@Malaclypse: As for your complaints, Paizo has the best customer service of any company I've ever dealt with. I've had issues in the past, and they have always worked them out to my satisfaction, even in cases where it was my own error that caused the problem. And it sounds like, for you, they'll fix your problem too if they haven't already - it sounds like a bug in the process that's never come up before, and it sounds to me like they're more than willing to fix it, even though you've given it to them with both barrels. So I really don't think you've got a lot to complain about.
Yup. Honestly, I think that the easiest way for them to "fix" the problem is to just allow downloads of the PDFs on the normal date of release. And that's not good for anyone.
Once again, I recommend the following: If you are getting the PDF today, for example, consider that you are getting it four business days pre-release. Don't consider that you are getting it two business days after a bunch of other mostly-anonymous forum posters.
What actual impact does it have on your life?
It made me annoyed because I wanted to order stuff with my subscription 15%. When I noticed that I could not, I wrote a post in the customer service forum. Sara Marie was very professional, but .. yeah. It even worked, in that I got access to my PDF within a few minutes after I posted.
But that meant (in this case) that my 15% were gone for good, and, well - it's ok, I am no subscriber anymore, so I don't get the rebate.
It doesn't even really matter, it was just needlessly annoying. And they lost a sale.
mhm.
Senior Software Developer
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It even worked, in that I got access to my PDF within a few minutes after I posted.
You have stated this multiple times in the past. It is clear that you believe that your posts are what shakes your order loose from the tree or gets it kicked into or out of the queue. This is not true. Believe it or not—and I am pretty sure at this point, given your attitude toward our customer service, that you won't—the fact that you got your PDF shortly after you posted was a complete coincidence.
For those suggesting that we grant PDFs to everybody at the same time by simply charging for the PDF, and perhaps charging a separate charge later for shipping the physical book, keep in mind that even if we had infinite bandwidth for downloads, it still takes time to process each credit card. There are unavoidable delays in between the first PDF granted and the last, under any reasonable scenario.
Side question- if I got a Pathfinder AP subscription today, would it begin by shipping me the first Jade Regent book, or the second?
Depends on the one you select to start the subscription with.
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In the App Store, you don't have to wait until you can download Lion, or Final Cut Pro, or whatever. Bad example.
You sure do have to wait, if you DON'T HAVE AN iPAD YET (you know, the physical product upon which the very existance of Final Cut Pro depends). Of course, you know that, and are deliberately ignoring it to try to prop yourself up, but that is your right. Just please don't think nobody sees it happening.
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... They DO treat every customer equally. They've explained their shipping processes multiple timesSo they treat everyone equally, but the reason that some customers have to wait (are not treated equally) are procedural details of shipping and charging? What?
You contradict yourself.
It's simply not physically possible to ship things faster than they do.Seriously? Not physically possible? Could it be you are just using hyperbole, maybe?
But what is a day or two, really?It's your prerogative to assign a value of 0 to your time.
For me, the difference was that I had lost my subscription benefits already but they didn't fulfill their part of the transaction. Sara Marie stated above that they didn't even realize that this is a problem until I complained.
So yes. I don't agree with you. But you don't have to understand that.
Other posters have kindly jumped to explain or defend me, but I just wanted to add a few things.
I said "not physically possible", and perhaps that would be better clarified as "not physically possible considering the current operations at Paizo". They're not Amazon, they don't have the ability to get every order done at the one time. Lisa herself helps out with the packing and shipping when they're really busy. Judging by the posts the staff make, they are a very busy operation and would love to optimise their everything as much as they can, but when you're in a constant release rush and fixing up the website/PDFs/store and customer service and shipping and god knows what... they have the most ideal situation they can afford right now.
There are constant improvements with the custserv department! Even something like how Ultimate Magic was packaged, with the little cardboard corner protectors. But when their average order takes say 2~4 (? guessing here!) days to get out to everyone - and that's not talking about the high profile, high order rate of the RPG line - you can't really expect that every customer will get their orders processed at exactly the same time.
I don't see how this is declaring worth to any particular order. This is just how their system works within the constraints put on their business and workers.
Your particular situation seems separate to the general issue of "PDFs come out all over the place", and your bitterness, however fair, seems to be encroaching on your arguments. So I won't comment on that. But I'd appreciate if you didn't make judgement calls on my values ("assigning a value of 0 to [my] time").
In the App Store, you don't have to wait until you can download Lion, or Final Cut Pro, or whatever. Bad example.You sure do have to wait, if you DON'T HAVE AN iPAD YET (you know, the physical product upon which the very existance of Final Cut Pro depends). Of course, you know that, and are deliberately ignoring it to try to prop yourself up, but that is your right. Just please don't think nobody sees it happening.
Um you mean an apple product running OS X 10.6.8 or iOS right? Because that's really all you need to access the app store? Not being snarky just clarifing.
EDIT: Oh and broadband access...
and money.
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I just don't understand this sense of entitlement that you can't wait for a couple of days.I guess that comes from Paizo not stating that they don't treat all the customers equally. Even if the reason for this lies in the procedural details of shipping and charging, it sucks when other people discuss content from the same item you bought in the same subscription, but cannot yet read.
That 'sense of entitlement' is very justified - because your dollars aren't worth any less than those of the guy who got his copy on tuesday.
Except the customers are equal. Because no one group of customers ALWAYS gets things early. I have gotten mine very early before anyone else even posted having it. Maybe the first person that month. Then on some months like this month I am way behind everyone else. So in what way is that not equal?
In the App Store, you don't have to wait until you can download Lion, or Final Cut Pro, or whatever. Bad example.You sure do have to wait, if you DON'T HAVE AN iPAD YET (you know, the physical product upon which the very existance of Final Cut Pro depends). Of course, you know that, and are deliberately ignoring it to try to prop yourself up, but that is your right. Just please don't think nobody sees it happening.
This has nothing to do with iPads. I think you are confusing things.
I said "not physically possible", and perhaps that would be better clarified as ....
Exactly. Your use of hyperbole was what I was getting at with my statement.
your bitterness, however fair, seems to be encroaching on your arguments. So I won't comment on that.
And just because you state 'I won't comment on that' does not mean you are not commenting on it. Too bad you have to resort to insults too by calling me bitter. Please stop that.
But I'd appreciate if you didn't make judgement calls on my values ("assigning a value of 0 to [my] time").
You were the one who said that two days don't matter. Did I misunderstand your statement?
*polymorphs into a smurf*
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Exactly. Your use of hyperbole was what I was getting at with my statement.
If you could recognise it was hyperbole, and didn't require me to clarify, then what, exactly, was your point?
Please don't insult me by calling me bitter. I'm not.
Then pick a word that doesn't insult you. That wasn't meant to be insulting, and I apologise if it was. "Annoyed that things didn't work out ideally"?
You were the one who said that two days don't matter. Did I misunderstand your statement?
Oh come off it. A day or two - when you are getting the product up to a week before the release date - is completely separate to not caring about the time something takes generally. I thought you were the one complaining about hyperbole?
All I'm saying is the same thing other posters have. Sometimes you're lucky, sometimes you're not. All the way down here in Aus, I don't expect to see a subscription in the flesh until, if I'm lucky, the week before the next one is due to ship. Having the PDF a week, or even a few days before it would normally come out was a HUGE draw for me on subscribing. Not only do you get it as early as possible, I get a sneak preview while I'm waiting for the package to trundle its way halfway across the globe. The key point there being "as early as possible". It doesn't bother me that other people get it earlier than me. Why should that matter? I'd still be getting it before the street date.
And waiting for the street date sucks, because damn do I want to read Ultimate Combat, but I'm not suffering for lack of it...
If you could recognise it was hyperbole, and didn't require me to clarify, then what, exactly, was your point?
An attempt to get the discussion back to the facts.
Then pick a word that doesn't insult you.
I cannot change your posts. So just don't start with it in the first place. Problem solved.
Oh come off it. A day or two - when you are getting the product up to a week before the release date - is completely separate to not caring about the time something takes generally.
Didn't you read this thread? But ok, I repeat myself again:
The two days where they removed my subscription benefits, but didn't fulfill their part of the sub.
For more details, consult the posts above.
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*shakes head*
I give up trying to talk with you, Malaclypse, because you accuse people of not reading or not understanding, or flubbing their words, or being generally insulting, while simultaneously doing the same things yourself. I don't feel like this is getting anywhere at all.
I hope your problems with custserv are worked out promptly, mine always were. Good gaming to you.
For more details, consult the posts above.
Please do the same:
The only reason this occurred on your account is the crazy two-APs-shipping-at-once and canceling the subscription between two volumes that were shipping at the same time. The need to use the discount in this type of situation (between the point when the order was generated and the subscription was canceled and the point when the order was shipped) has never once come up as an issue before to customer service. We had no idea that it was even a problem.
Generally speaking, when a customer feels that they are supposed to be getting a discount for an order they wish to place and it isn't showing up or they are worried about it not showing up, they contact customer service and let us know. Customer Service then works to the best of our ability to make sure that the customer gets the order discount if they should be qualifying for it, or we explain why the order does not qualify.
Had I know you wanted to place an order and used your about-to-expire-Advantage discount on it, I would have made sure that anything shipped with your pending Adventure Path or any Paizo PDFs you ordered before the last subscription item shipped would recieve the AP discount.
Seems like the failure here is your own, on multiple levels.
I give up trying to talk with you, Malaclypse, because you accuse people of not reading or not understanding, or flubbing their words, or being generally insulting, while simultaneously doing the same things yourself. I don't feel like this is getting anywhere at all.
I would appreciate if you told me where I insulted you. Or at least flag the post, so Sara Marie can remove it.
Seems like the failure here is your own, on multiple levels.
Please read the relevant thread with her answer. Its not this one. This offer of still giving me the discount came one day after the original thread, after I already stated that I shopped somewhere else.
At least you stopped insulting me directly. I guess that's progress. Paizo removing posts seems to help. Yay.
It is clear that you believe that your posts are what shakes your order loose from the tree or gets it kicked into or out of the queue. This is not true. Believe it or not—and I am pretty sure at this point, given your attitude toward our customer service, that you won't—the fact that you got your PDF shortly after you posted was a complete coincidence.
No, of course I believe you.
But what do you mean with the 'attitude towards customer service' statement?
Please read the relevant thread with her answer. Its not this one. This offer of still giving me the discount came one day after the original thread, after I already stated that I shopped somewhere else.
So, again - your impatience for them to handle the issue is YOUR failure. I mean, ZOMGZ, one whole day?!
At least you stopped insulting me directly. I guess that's progress. Paizo removing posts seems to help. Yay.
Waugh.
MEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!
So, again - your impatience for them to handle the issue is YOUR failure. I mean, ZOMGZ, one whole day?!
I think you are confusing some things. Paizo's customer service is great, they didn't take a day to resolve the issue - they answer quickly.
Ah - I tire of this.
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I think things are ok the way they are. I feel lucky to get the free pdf and the discount.
I agree. I may not always be part of the first wave of .pdfs, but I don't think it's ever been more than a day or two until my order was processed. Among all the problems and issues I might face, complaining that someone else received a .pdf shortly before me seems rather unreasonable.
I even wonder if a case cannot be made that this constitutes unlawful discrimination between customers. Not that I would ever want anyone to make such a case, but we were just talking about observing the common rules of business and trade.Exactly what group or category would you be in (and that other subscribers would not be in) that would be receiving prejudicial treatment from Paizo?
I would absolutely LOVE to see how someone would even begin to define their supposed discrimination in this situation.
I know this one! They're discriminating against people who aren't subscribers by not giving them free PDFs.
Wait... what?
THIS IS THE WORST KIND OF DISCRIMINATION: THE KIND AGAINST ME!!!! :D
THIS IS THE WORST KIND OF DISCRIMINATION: THE KIND AGAINST ME!!!! :D
Wait, are they discriminating against us who get stuff for FREE? THATS DISFREEIMATION!
PS: I it doesn't bother me if people get PDF's a day (or two) before me. I have a lot more important things in life to get worked up about, like my min-maxing players ;)
Feh, it's nothing really in time.
I've wailed and rallied in the past, mostly tongue in cheek. (My Elan like comments, "Pack pack pack the books!") But the fact is that I still get my PDFs a week before I get the DTF books. Nothing to complain about.
You get the books a week after the PDFs? I have to wait 2 weeks and often more. THAT'S DISCRIMINATION! PAIZO SHOULD OFFER ME THE SAME SHIPPING SPEEDS FOR THE SAME PRICES AS THEY DO YOU! BUT THEY DON'T! JUST BECAUSE I'M FROM EUROPE! THAT'S RACIST!!!!!!!
:D