Full Plate is +9/+1. Am I missing something?The tatami-do is +7/+3 (more than full plate), and the o-yoroi is +8/+2 (more than full plate).
I guess. The argument seemed to have been that no heavy armour should have a higher max dex than full plate. Full plate has +1. Those new armours have +2 and +3, respectively.
I'm not against the new armours per se, but I am against that they weren't there sooner, when they would have made sense. The field plate would have made a great +8/+2 armour, and it would have stayed true to the 3e version of the armour.
This seems to me like "It's Japanese so it must be better!" syndrome.
Weapons have the same problem. Lets compare two two-handed martial weapons:
Falchion 2d4 S (18–20/×2), nothing special
Nodachi 1d10 S or P (18–20/×2), brace
The nodachi does more damage, you can choose among two damage types, and you can use it to brace. If it weren't for the finesse part, that weapon would be equal to the exotic elven curve blade.
They do have a MAD problem and a problem dealing with DR.
The problem with DR is people trying to play a monk as a damage dealer. it's not really their task. They're there for combat manoeuvring the heck out of enemies.
Anyway.
Any new bard toys? Some cool wounderous item, sword, bow or anything?
Any new Bard feats?
Any "good" fighter feats?
I haven't looked at the feats yet. I don't think there are magic items in there (except some stuff related to firearms, and maybe the big stuff like siege engines or vehicles).
Bards do get a couple of archetypes.
Assume +4 dex mod from armor training+9/+5 vs +7/+7 vs +8/+6
Assume Mithral
+9/+7 vs +7/+9 vs +8/+8
14 vs. 14 vs. 14
or
16 vs. 16 vs. 16
I must be really dull unless I'm just blindly looking past something here... Full Plate has the lowest Dexterity required to hit 'maximum' AC of the set, versus a lower cost or greater flexibity.
Whats the issue with this exactly? (EDIT: Noted response above about these options being 'new' as opposed to base. Fair enough.)
The problem with DR is people trying to play a monk as a damage dealer.
it's not really their task. They're there for combat manoeuvring the heck out of enemies.
hard if you meet a dragon, a ghost, etc.
Falconer: This guy is *awesome*. You can do some really cool things.
Can't believe I'm the only one interested in this since page two...
What kinds of really cool things can be done? I'm literally just about to start playing a Bird-companioned Ranger in a new campaign, and the Falconer could be right up my alley.
hard if you meet a dragon, a ghost, etc.
The problem with DR is people trying to play a monk as a damage dealer.
it's not really their task. They're there for combat manoeuvring the heck out of enemies.
UC not withstanding, I never got the impression that the monk was any better at doing combat maneuvers than the fighter.
Falconer: This guy is *awesome*. You can do some really cool things.Can't believe I'm the only one interested in this since page two...
What kinds of really cool things can be done? I'm literally just about to start playing a Bird-companioned Ranger in a new campaign, and the Falconer could be right up my alley.
I had made a joke to my friends a while ago my next character was going to have max ranks in Profession: Falconry.
I saw Falconer, and it was like a sign for me to move forward with this.
One note: the asian theme is just fluff. I can see the concerns about the "exoticness" of the No-dachi (I agree 100%) but for western flavour, a P,S sword with brace is an excellent Zweihander.
So how does the "Armour as DR" optional rule work?
In short, you have a defense score rather than an armor class. Defense is 10 plus Dex bonus plus shield plus any magical armor enhancement (or similar) bonuses. Once hit your armor is DR (including natural armor) with it being bypassed by certain things (just like other types of DR).
*edit* It seems pretty well thought out (as does the optional vigor / wound point system). I'd have to really look it over / think it through to say more. I do like it though.
So have any classes been given buffs?
Another question: I'm with Joe... what's the Falconer got?
It was mentioned earlier that one of the paladin archetypes, holy tactician I think, replaces smite evil for bonuses to allies- is this ability still alignment based (ie: can you use it on non-evil)? Also what's the general idea behind sacred shield; is it a paladin that hits guys with a shield or a bodyguard type of thing? Thanks.
Yes, it's alignment based. Smite Evil is replaced by Weal's Champion. It gives the Paladin bonuses on attack and damage vs. evil targets; if they hit the Paladin's allies get bonuses against the same enemy for a number of rounds based on the Paladin's level. The rest of the Holy Taciticians abilities either buff allies or are similar to Weal's Champion.
The Sacred Shield kind of reverses smite called Bastion of Good; enemies have a harder time hitting the Paladin (gets a defelction bonus) and her allies (who only suffer half damage if hit). This replaces Smite Evil. Later abilities continue this theme.
What new spells got added, can you tell which ones are magus related please? Thx!
Another question: I'm with Joe... what's the Falconer got?
They trade Wild Empathy for a bird animal companion at 1st level. At 1st level, the bird only has half the amount of HP it should, gaining full HP when the Ranger gets their Hunter's Bond. They also trade a combat feat to give the animal companion a swooping charge, which double's the bird's natural weapon's dice for one round after it's set up.
What new spells got added, can you tell which ones are magus related please? Thx!
There's some new combat ones, but most of the spells are focused around a new mechanic called Communal Spells. They're basically the bridge between Mass spells and their base forms. They function like the base spell, but you divide the spell's duration up among all targets. For example, if you had Communal Fly (doesn't exist), you would determine your duration normally (1 hour per level) and then choose a number of targets, diving up that duration amongst all targets you selected; i.e., a 5th level Wizard casting Communal Fly (5 hours) on 5 targets would give them each the effects of fly for 1 hour.
There are a couple spells that make people using seige weapons and firearms cheer (buff spells) and cry (hahahaha, all your gunpowder is inert!), and of course, there is one hilariously awesome spell that has been mentioned several times in this thread, that has an awesome piece of art and has a decent chance of letting you instantly kill animals and magical beasts ... if you like making puppies do barrel rolls.
It was mentioned earlier that one of the paladin archetypes, holy tactician I think, replaces smite evil for bonuses to allies- is this ability still alignment based (ie: can you use it on non-evil)?
No, it only gives bonuses to Non-Evil allies.
Also what's the general idea behind sacred shield; is it a paladin that hits guys with a shield or a bodyguard type of thing? Thanks.
They're basically a Holy Bodyguard, built around minalizing the damage that allies take. As far as I can tell, it is also possesses the only class feature in Pathfinder currently that can grant Regeneration to allies (abet easily overcome regeneration).
Anyway.
Any new bard toys? Some cool wounderous item, sword, bow or anything?
Any new Bard feats?
Any "good" fighter feats?
As many have commented, Derverish Dancer is one of the best Archetypes in the book. It's very solid and does a great job making the Bard excel in melee combat.
Archaeologist is awesome based on concept alone (the class itself is basically a watered-down rogue that trades the talents and sneak attack damage of a rogue for spellcasting and personal luck-based performances). Daredevil is okay; a bit less impressive, but it has an amazing piece of artwork.
There are no new Masterpieces in this book, and the only feats that really come off as being for a specific class belong to the Monk (who has an entire new category devoted to toys that they excel at using) and the Inquisitor, who has several great feats that combo with their Judgment Ability. On that note, the two new Inquisitions in the book are wonderfully flavored and super-useful.
EVERY Combat Feat is a Fighter feat, but no, there aren't many (if any) feats that require you to be a Fighter. The best way I can describe the feat section is as such: "You're not going to find feats that you absolutely have to have. You're going to find feats that make you go, 'Huh, I've love to make a character around that idea.'"
As with its companion, Ultimate Magic, there are almost no Magical Items in this book. There are a couple of items for the Gunslinger (the Shale Spider is awesome, and I think it's inspired from a movie that is escaping my brain at this hour), but there are no named magical firearms, and aside from the special enhancements for firearms, the book is very magic item light. However, there is the Alchemical Dragon vehicle, which is basically the Highwind from Final Fantasy ALL OF THEM.
Odd question, does the dervish dancer actually have to dance?
EVERY Combat Feat is a Fighter feat, but no, there aren't many (if any) feats that require you to be a Fighter.
Fighter get archetypes.
Rangers, Paladins, and others get new spells. Barbs get rage powers, rogues get talents and get to pick tricks from the ninja.
Fighters can't pick Rage powers, cast spells, can't pick rogue talents, wild shape, channel eneryg, use bardic performance.
The fighter should get fighter only feats in a book called Ultimate Combat.
Any new Hunter’s Tricks for the Skirmisher?
edit: removed snark remark.
Are there any feats for wild shape, bardic music, ki based abilities, favored enemy, eidolons, oracle only, or channeling?
Are there any skill(bonuses to skills, adding skills as class skills,etc.) based feats?
I ask.. what is in the book useful for poison users? There is some new poison?
I ask.. what is in the book useful for poison users? There is some new poison?
There's no new poisons that I saw, but there are the Adder Strike that let you use a contact poison with an unarmed strike.
This seems to me like "It's Japanese so it must be better!" syndrome.
I havent bought UC yet but this bit really saddens me and makes me a little mad... the armours and more especially, the NoDachi.
I simply gave up on Paizo weapons. They're doing great work with enough stuff.
My house rules contain a master list of weapons and armour where I fixed a number of things (like the kama doesn't exist as an entry. If you want one, use the sickle's stats and call it a kama).
Oh, I take it Samurai STILL have shield use, right? So an exotic weapon prof thats better than the Longsword for free and they still can use shields?
Yes. They have all armour, shields (except tower), all simple weapons, all martial ones, and a couple of exotic ones (none of which were really necessary. The wakizashi is a short sword, the katana is a bastard sword, and the naginata is a glaive)
Any new Cavilier orders?
Yes. Beyond the two samurai orders, there is Blue Rose (pacifists), Seal (Dedicated to a musician married to Heidi Klum. Just kidding. They're a secretive bunch protecting a thing, place or secret), Tome (preservation of knowledge).
There's also some archetypes: The beast rider (who can ride all kinds of critters), emissary (focussed on speed), gendarme (give up tactician for more bonus feats), honour guard (guard someone), luring cavalier (mounted archer who lures enemies into bad tactical positions on the battlefield), musketeer (no mount, but a musket or other firearm) and strategist (stronger focus on tactician feature).
My house rules contain a master list of weapons and armour where I fixed a number of things (like the kama doesn't exist as an entry. If you want one, use the sickle's stats and call it a kama).
Do you have a link for those rules? I will start to houserule heavily the game and weapons is one of the part I will change.
@Samurai with shields: in my games, Samurai are not Samurai - are just another Cavalier order. I am VERY happy to see they kept the shield. Have more mechanical options is a good thing, not a bad one.
@Anburaid: thanks. This is sad :(
Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 8
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There's some new combat ones, but most of the spells are focused around a new mechanic called Communal Spells. They're basically the bridge between Mass spells and their base forms. They function like the base spell, but you divide the spell's duration up among all targets. For example, if you had Communal Fly (doesn't exist), you would determine your duration normally (1 hour per level) and then choose a number of targets, diving up that duration amongst all targets you selected; i.e., a 5th level Wizard casting Communal Fly (5 hours) on 5 targets would give them each the effects of fly for 1 hour.
Basically, they work like water breathing, which is where they got the idea.
Sean K Reynolds had me and some other Team Gruntwork guys work on them.
Team Gruntwork
This sounds like a Dwarf adventuring party :p , which would be fitting with communal and group tactics. Very cool and nice to know
Team GruntworkThis sounds like a Dwarf adventuring party :p , which would be fitting with communal and group tactics. Very cool and nice to know
Hi-ho! Hi-ho! Teamwork feats, for sho!
My house rules contain a master list of weapons and armour where I fixed a number of things (like the kama doesn't exist as an entry. If you want one, use the sickle's stats and call it a kama).
Do you have a link for those rules? I will start to houserule heavily the game and weapons is one of the part I will change.
@Samurai with shields: in my games, Samurai are not Samurai - are just another Cavalier order. I am VERY happy to see they kept the shield. Have more mechanical options is a good thing, not a bad one.
Exactly.
Though I kinda think it weird they have shields. There are a lot of samurai concepts (most don't sit on a horse most of the time), but none I can picture use shields.
But proficiency isn't mandatory, so they're fine.
Please, can someone shed light on what the flowing monk can do? I'm hoping it's finesse based...
Though I kinda think it weird they have shields. There are a lot of samurai concepts (most don't sit on a horse most of the time), but none I can picture use shields.But proficiency isn't mandatory, so they're fine.
well, my game has Order of the Basilik Cavaliers, famous for being resiliant and stubborn (bodyguards of the Emprah, able to specialize in a small group of weapons and hence respected by the Imperial guard fighters, grognards like Napoleon's Old guard) and the Black Knights, sort of Rogue-Kinghts of a fallen realm in the South-East.
Guess which class fits mechanically with these two concepts. And the setting is 100% western fantasy.
Thank you for the link :)
Golden-Esque, if you're still around, could you answer my question about what's changed for the Samurai from the playtest, or if it is indeed still word-for-word the same? :)
Jukkaimaru, one of the reasons I, and I suspect others, haven't really answered your question is that a line-by-line examination of the samurai will take a *lot* of work. It looks exactly the same.
@Azten: It's been mentioned before, a few times, in this thread. Use the "search this thread" function :)
@Zark: Damn man, it's like you *want* to be disappointed! The sheer fact that they get so many feats means Fighters benefit more than other martial classes from all these new combat feats.
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I admit that the emphasis on Asian flavor is puzzling and disappointing.
Did we really need a pile of new rules for Japanese armours? I thought existing Banded/Splint/etc. armour types did an adequate job of simulating them. That Pathfinder now represents them as being so much better than almost anything else is frustrating. It smacks of a certain amount of "weeaboo" tendencies amongst at least some of the designers...
*shrug* A lot of people like asian stuff, the next AP is focused around Golarion's Asian counterpart. I'm not a big asiaphile either but I think there is plenty for the rest of us here.
Hmm, that's fair enough. Permit me to make it somewhat less intensive, then: Say...their capstone ability alone--is it unchanged?Golden-Esque, if you're still around, could you answer my question about what's changed for the Samurai from the playtest, or if it is indeed still word-for-word the same? :)Jukkaimaru, one of the reasons I, and I suspect others, haven't really answered your question is that a line-by-line examination of the samurai will take a *lot* of work. It looks exactly the same.
The following sentence was added as clarification: "Attacks made by opponents that are not the target of his challenge deal no damage when samurai has 0 or fewer hit points. "
Guess which class fits mechanically with these two concepts. And the setting is 100% western fantasy.
You're not talking about the Samurai are you? Cuz that's just not legal. Samuriz can has only be Japanesez!
On a more serious note on the Japanese thing: People will always clamor for weapons that represent real world ethnicities because just re-skinning existing weapons don't really cut it for some people, especially because most ethnic weapons have particular fighting styles associated with them that some people don't think that re-skinned weapons properly convey.
Honestly, people feeling dismayed about the new oriental stuff should't fret too much about it. Pathfinder has worked fine without the new equipment options, and continuing to not have them in your home games is totally O.K. because only the gunslinger (and the various other gun archetypes) require any amount of new equipment lists. The Samurai and Ninja function perfectly fine without their thematic appropriate equipment.
Please, can someone shed light on what the flowing monk can do? I'm hoping it's finesse based...
Flowing Monk plus Ki Throw feat chain is basically an aikido practitioner.
...
The fighter should get fighter only feats in a book called Ultimate Combat.
There is one fighter-only feat, Pin Down.
@Zark: Damn man, it's like you *want* to be disappointed! The sheer fact that they get so many feats means Fighters benefit more than other martial classes from all these new combat feats.
Hey, I'm not even a fighter lover.
Point is, lots of new feat all can choose from. Same as in the APG.
But the APG had spells, rage powers, rogue tricks. and those classes can pick from the feat list and their list of goodies, be it spells, talents, rage powers or whatever. Fighters can only pick feats.
Still no word on Hunter’s Tricks for the Skirmisher.