Malaclypse |
I made a post about this already, but I seem to have been unclear in stating my point, so unclear that it was moved to the Technology forum despite being focussed on Paizo Products. So I'll try to be extra clear this time...
The layout and formatting of Paizo PDFs is identical to the book versions. That is, it uses a fullpage-layout in portrait format. As more and more players use the PDFs on a tablet device, most likely an iPad or one of the android-based clones, a layout oriented towards tablets would be very beneficial. The size factor of tablets makes reading a full page kind of annoying, because then the fonts are getting very small and detail is lacking, and scrolling is required. In addition, landscape seems to be more popular as shown by the iPad-oriented magazines.
Since the amount of people using tablets to read/lookup their stuff is only going to increase, and Paizo already has a healthy PDF-selling business, they are in a unique position to innovate here. A special tablet-layouted PDF could even be sold extra, in addition to the 'normal' PDF, for the people who want. And layouting shouldn't be too big a problem, especially since additional white space for layouting reasons is not a problem for PDFs, while it costs pages in books...
So - any chance that Paizo will embrace the future? ;)
Malaclypse |
I would love to do this, but we don't have the manpower right now. Basically we'd have to double our graphic design staff because then every product would have to be laid out twice. That's not saying we'll never do something like this, just that it's not likely to be anytime soon.
Ok. Thanks for the quick reply.
I guess I'll wait for the design team to level up so they can cast time stop, then. :)
Dorje Sylas |
I don't think tablet targeted ezines are a good example of where formatting is going. Part of the reason for the Landscape ordination is due to their use of embedded videos which expand to fill the display. If Paizo ever started integrating multi-medi elements into digital products perhaps this would be the better format.
Part of the attraction of the iPad is that it can very easily be used in portrait mode for 8.5 x 11 documents. The only real issue with Paizo PDFs in this layout is their high margin space, which oddly enough is almost perfect if you crop it right. The actual text area of Paizo's layout a smidgen bigger then what you get if you crop/zoom out the margin area.
The iPad has a functional screen area of 5.875 in. x 7.875 in. As long as you can get text into that zone or near it, it should display 1:1 on an iPad. Other tablets will have different display areas.
What does Paizo use, 6.5 in. wide area with 1 inch margins?
From a digital standpoint as long as each page is more or less centered then cropping features through Apps like GoodReader work fairly well. Ends up something like 90% scale if done right.
Mike Welham Contributor, RPG Superstar 2012 |
I don't think tablet targeted ezines are a good example of where formatting is going. Part of the reason for the Landscape ordination is due to their use of embedded videos which expand to fill the display. If Paizo ever started integrating multi-medi elements into digital products perhaps this would be the better format.
Part of the attraction of the iPad is that it can very easily be used in portrait mode for 8.5 x 11 documents. The only real issue with Paizo PDFs in this layout is their high margin space, which oddly enough is almost perfect if you crop it right. The actual text area of Paizo's layout a smidgen bigger then what you get if you crop/zoom out the margin area.
The iPad has a functional screen area of 5.875 in. x 7.875 in. As long as you can get text into that zone or near it, it should display 1:1 on an iPad. Other tablets will have different display areas.
What does Paizo use, 6.5 in. wide area with 1 inch margins?
From a digital standpoint as long as each page is more or less centered then cropping features through Apps like GoodReader work fairly well.
I really do like GoodReader on the iPad.
uriel222 |
I would love to do this, but we don't have the manpower right now. Basically we'd have to double our graphic design staff because then every product would have to be laid out twice. That's not saying we'll never do something like this, just that it's not likely to be anytime soon.
If I could suggest something that seems simple to a design lay person:
I read paizo PDFs on an iPad, and even just zooming in so that i can't see the margins makes a big difference. I'm not sure how hard it would be to take them off for a "tablet friendly" version, but it seems a lot simpler than reflowing the document.
IronWolf |
I read paizo PDFs on an iPad, and even just zooming in so that i can't see the margins makes a big difference. I'm not sure how hard it would be to take them off for a "tablet friendly" version, but it seems a lot simpler than reflowing the document.
If you read them with GoodReader, it has a crop feature that lets you custom crop the PDF. I use it all the time to crop out the margins, it then applies that to the rest of the document automatically. Works great with Paizo PDFs.
Malaclypse |
[snip]...Apps like GoodReader work fairly well. Ends up something like 90% scale if done right.
It works, maybe even 'fairly' well, but it's clearly not great. But I like things to be great, I don't like suboptimal solutions. Its just not as nice at it could be.
One day....we can hope.
Dorje Sylas |
One day....we can hope.
I'm not going to hold my breath. Sorry. I was (and likely still am) as much of a perfectionist as you, but two decades of computer experience (three spent in true IT work) has left me jaded. If it works 90% of the time or is 90% of the quality I consider it a very good day indeed.
Really it will come down to tools. Tools to allow authors and layout artists to easily dictate reflow aspects of a document. This means Adobe (ya right) or Apple (even more sarcastic "ya right") will have to step up. Even then it'd still be a lot of work to issuer that the automated output was equally crisp and "great" as the master format.
I'd be more then happy to continue discussion on RPG/graphics heavy design work in the rise of the Multi-Touch Tablet. Perhaps back in your thread in Technology (okay I think I really need text expander)
Malaclypse |
Really it will come down to tools. Tools to allow authors and layout artists to easily dictate reflow aspects of a document. This means Adobe (ya right) or Apple (even more sarcastic "ya right") will have to step up. Even then it'd still be a lot of work to issuer that the automated output was equally crisp and "great" as the master format.
I'd be more then happy to continue discussion on RPG/graphics heavy design work in the rise of the Multi-Touch Tablet. Perhaps back in your thread in Technology (okay I think I really need text expander)
I'm not sure that automatic reflow is the solution. First, because its not good enough to compare to hand-made layout, and there's also the issue of DRM.
GentleGiant |
As long as the "normal" PDFs are kept, then I don't mind an extra tablet formatted version of the books (also, no price mark-up for us "normal" people). As Malaclypse posted, it might be a separate sale.
And although the trend might be going towards more tablets, I think you should also be aware that at this point I don't think it's really THAT big a market. Anecdotal "evidence" might suggest otherwise (e.g. if you and most of your friends have iPads or similar tablets), but it's easily countered by other anecdotal "evidence" (none of the people I know, who plays RPGs, own a tablet).
But we all know what big Apple fanboys the people at Paizo are, so they might consider it sooner than later. ;-)
Malaclypse |
As long as the "normal" PDFs are kept, then I don't mind an extra tablet formatted version of the books (also, no price mark-up for us "normal" people). As Malaclypse posted, it might be a separate sale.
The mark-up should be on the iPad-optimized 'deluxe' version.
And although the trend might be going towards more tablets, I think you should also be aware that at this point I don't think it's really THAT big a market. Anecdotal "evidence" might suggest otherwise (e.g. if you and most of your friends have iPads or similar tablets), but it's easily countered by other anecdotal "evidence" (none of the people I know, who plays RPGs, own a tablet).
It's a big market not because everyone has an iPad, but because people who own iPads are much more likely to spend money on content and apps. See the recently released studies e.g. contrasting Android and iOS purchasing behavior, or the raise in legal digital music sales since the rise of iOS. While it might be a (yet) small market segment, it's also one of the most valuable for content producers. Lots of people never bought software for their PCs, just copied everything - but most users of iOS purchase their software legally. Clever companies will find ways to cut off a slice of this market - I hope Paizo is one of them, too.
gbonehead Owner - House of Books and Games LLC |
Personally, I have no interest in reformatted PDFs. Since I go back and forth between the hardcopies and the PDF on a regular basis, it would just make it really messy to quickly go to the right spot in the book.
After all, in a well-used book, you get a feel for where things are, and if they're moving around due to reflow, it just ends up being a source of confusion when you're trying to quickly get to the right spot.
Irontruth |
Personally, I have no interest in reformatted PDFs. Since I go back and forth between the hardcopies and the PDF on a regular basis, it would just make it really messy to quickly go to the right spot in the book.
After all, in a well-used book, you get a feel for where things are, and if they're moving around due to reflow, it just ends up being a source of confusion when you're trying to quickly get to the right spot.
I know exactly what your talking about with concern to physical books. I could open up to just about whatever topic I wanted in the D&D 3.5 PHB. The APG is the first book I only bought in electronic format and when I browse through a friends physical copy it always feels strange and unfamiliar, though I can find things pretty quickly in my PDF copy. Even though the layout is completely the same, I'm getting none of the familiarity I normally get with a book.
Since I have experienced familiarity with a physical book. I've found an identical PDF version does not impart that familiarity. I see no reason why an altered PDF would make it worse, since my brain already treats them as different.
PDFs with layout done specifically for a PDF format for your screen size wll always work better than those intended for books of a different size. They are a niche market though, and as tablets become more common, we're also seeing more sizes, compounding the problem.
This is yet another example where DRM is annoying.
Creighton Broadhurst Raging Swan Press |
At the risk of shameless promoting myself, Raging Swan Press offers tablet optimised PDFs of 90% of its products (we are moving through our back catalogue to convert all our products to Dual Format status). The files are identical to the traditonal version of the file except that using technical jiggery pokery we have squished the file size so the PDFs load and refresh quicker.
When you buy a product that is a Dual Format PDF you get both versions of the file without having to pay extra. It's part of our thank you for trying our offering.
mcbobbo |
As I discussed in another post, my Android Transformer with Alkido handles the existing PDF's beautifully. Except the page turns are really slow. If you'd consider at least releasing a version without the high-color, multi-meg background image on every page, this would get a lot better. I understand you use the background images to crop the art, and so would suggest a simple all-white image instead. Or all-tan. Or whatever. It would make things go more smoothly for people like me, and I presume it would help on the iPad as well.
Seems like you could do this kind of a swap programmatically. Just a thought.