|
I posed this question to my yahoo group, but I figured others out there might be in a simular situation. I read a simular thread written by a guy that brings his children to games, but it is a year old so instead of resurrecting it to get an answer to my own question I figured I would start a new thread.
Since free RPG day, I have noticed more and more children coming to our local PFS. I assume those that bring them are prepared to involve there children in PG-13 type material, but I do not have a child that old yet and I do not want to make false assumptions. The reason I mention this is because I play a devil-worshiper from cheliax. When there are children at the table, I tone down the role playing a bit(and my personal sick humor)when children are at the table, but I am considering just making a new character all together because I do not want to offend someone and I do understand that the society is more of a public event.
Has anyone had experiance in this situation.
|
I posed this question to my yahoo group, but I figured others out there might be in a simular situation. I read a simular thread written by a guy that brings his children to games, but it is a year old so instead of resurrecting it to get an answer to my own question I figured I would start a new thread.Since free RPG day, I have noticed more and more children coming to our local PFS. I assume those that bring them are prepared to involve there children in PG-13 type material, but I do not have a child that old yet and I do not want to make false assumptions. The reason I mention this is because I play a devil-worshiper from cheliax. When there are children at the table, I tone down the role playing a bit(and my personal sick humor)when children are at the table, but I am considering just making a new character all together because I do not want to offend someone and I do understand that the society is more of a public event.
Has anyone had experiance in this situation.
I just brought my 12-year old brother the last game day (two scenarios), one of the Devil May Know series and the Throaty Mermaid, and he was fine. In fact, he kept trying to get my dwarf to seduce the ship's dwarven cook...
|
I just brought my 12-year old brother the last game day (two scenarios), one of the Devil May Know series and the Throaty Mermaid, and he was fine. In fact, he kept trying to get my dwarf to seduce the ship's dwarven cook...
Ninja, So you know Your GM for Throaty Mermaid Toned down the Scenario a Bit for you Brother.
|
|
Ninja, So you know Your GM for Throaty Mermaid Toned down the Scenario a Bit for you Brother.
I just brought my 12-year old brother the last game day (two scenarios), one of the Devil May Know series and the Throaty Mermaid, and he was fine. In fact, he kept trying to get my dwarf to seduce the ship's dwarven cook...
That was toned down? Were there MORE plot points about who was sleeping with the ship's woman?
|
Theoretically, PFS scenarios are meant to be PG-13 (check out the writers' guidelines), and have less adult content than, say, the Adventure Paths.
That said, there are a few scenarios that are on the upper end of that scale. YMMV as to which ones those are.
Parents should talk to the GM about the scenario ahead of time if they have specific concerns. They should also make sure it is ok for younger children play and/or stay to supervise them. A GM should not have to rein in everyone else's fun just because a parent dropped off a kid to occupy them for 4 hours.
That said, GMs and other players should be respectful when young people are at the table. And they should realize that the campaign is meant to be PG-13, and that there is nothing wrong with the next generation of gamers sitting down to have fun with us.
At Origins, I ran Midnight Mauler and We Be Goblins! for 2 families. We Be Goblins was one of the highlights of the convention for me - parents and 2 sons, with 2 other very experienced roleplayers. The kids were creative and got into the characters, only slightly veering off into too much silliness, and their mood infected all of the other players, making it a great time for all. I did not change anything in the adventure. For Midnight Mauler, I had a family of 6. A much slower progression, with many bathroom breaks required. Although there is nothing strictly adult about the scenario, I read the tone of the table and decided to modify the profession and relationship of one of the NPCs. A fun time was still had, but I suspect it would have been less fun for a more mature RPer to sit in on that session.
As long as the kids are not too immature, and everyone is respectful of the needs of the table, younger players are a huge bonus for PFS.
|
|
A GM should not have to rein in everyone else's fun just because a parent dropped off a kid to occupy them for 4 hours.
If you're going to edit a scenario (or the tone of a scenario) for a child, I think there's always the potential to rein in the fun for the adults at the table.
For example, if I made MotTMermaid child friendly, half the fluff (I hesitate to use that term) in the scenario that my players liked, wouldn't have even been there. How is that not reining in their fun?
In a simple straight forward scenario that has few mature themes, it won't matter.
I think the more child modifications you make, the more you compromise everyone elses fun imo. Unless you like that type of game, which is definitely a preference (but not my preference).
Personally, it bothers me when I play a scenario, then I read all of the cool things that happen in the scenario later, and when most of those things were removed because a child was at my table, it bothers me.
So you're considering the child, sure (which is important), but what about the adults? What about my enjoyment of the scenario? Should 5 adults really have to suffer because 1 child wants to play?
(For the record, I don't mind children playing at the same table as me). I just feel that perhaps, instead of editing a scenario for the child, that children shouldn't play certain scenarios unless it's a table of children or consenting adults).
|
RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
|
(For the record, I don't mind children playing at the same table as me). I just feel that perhaps, instead of editing a scenario for the child, that children shouldn't play certain scenarios unless it's a table of children or consenting adults).
That seems good in theory, but I think you'll run into logistical issues in practice. Do you turn players away and just tell them they're too young? Do you start checking IDs or getting a parent's approval? Is your venue okay with you running "public" events with adult-only adventures? (Especially if you're sharing space with other events - my FLGS sometimes runs PFS alongside Pokemon.)
|
|
That is one of the reasons I suggest that a parent should talk with the GM first. If I were running Mermaid, I might suggest the young player come back another night, or at least advise the parent of some of the adult themes.
Some scenarios can be soft-pedalled without significantly lowering the experience, some cannot.
|
|
One thing we told Ninjaxenomorph when he brought in his 12 year old brother is that most likely the players would not rein themselves in and I would not ask them to because I did not want them to have less fun for one player.
I told him to make sure his parents where ok with that, he told me yes, but I would feel more comfortable if I actually talked to them myself.
Venture-Captain, Oregon—Portland
|
That was toned down? Were there MORE plot points about who was sleeping with the ship's woman?
As the GM being referred to, yes I did tone it down for your brother. It wasn't so much an issue of plot points, but more a matter of how I would have run the NPCs MUCH differently without your brother being there. Not a huge issue, but I think some scenario's really do come alive when played in a more "adult" fashion.
Not to say I mind having kids at the table, I really don't. I ran City of Strangers with two kids, they had a blast and I didn't worry as much about rp'ing the NPCs. Then again, their father was also sitting at the table with them and playing his own character, all of them obviously experienced players, so I felt more comfortable about their maturity levels.
The biggest issue, I think, boils down to everyone wants kids to be interested and play, but at the same time no one wants an angry parent coming down on anyone. I think parents should really be involved and see what they're comfortable with as far as their kids go; I know I would have been much more comfortable meeting his parents and getting their impressions on everything.
|
|
As a parent with two kids 10 and 8 who both have now taken part in organised play I would like to chime in. There was a long discussion mote than a year ago.
Adult themes: there are a few scenarios that I would avoid for the children. Luckily these are very few. One issue is - parental guidance means exactly that - guidance from a parent who knows his kids best. Parents should take the time to get involved - at least initially and talk to the GM. There are different issues a kid might feel strongly about and this doesn't translate to age.
GMs : check with a GM ahead of time. There are GMs who like to have children at their table. I was assigned a kid to my table at PaizoCon UK and was very happy about it as I was able to give back to him and his father what my kids have experienced. But not every GM is that happy.
The first games: have a parent or other experienced player to play with a kid. He/she can help getting the right dice, do a nudge here or there to clarify rules and keep it moving. This person should not be the GM as he is busy enough to keep the game running.
I'm looking forward to the basic edition and hope to introduce some of my sons / daughters friend to the game.
|
|
Just wondering how people deal with Violence... I am about to start with my kids but am a bit funny... not sure if my kids want to be eager to "kill" stuff.
This pretty well sums up my opinion of the entire arguement. If you are willing to allow your children to play in a game where they will participate in, most likely, what is essentially murder (and occasionally just cause of the npc's race), then you should have no issue with just about anything else in any module.
If the modules were movies/tv, with the level of violence, I dont see any of them getting anything less than R/M.
|
RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
|
This pretty well sums up my opinion of the entire arguement. If you are willing to allow your children to play in a game where they will participate in, most likely, what is essentially murder (and occasionally just cause of the npc's race), then you should have no issue with just about anything else in any module.
If the modules were movies/tv, with the level of violence, I dont see any of them getting anything less than R/M.
1. Argument? What argument? Sounds to me like people are having a mature and rational discussion of a topic. People are telling their stories and their thoughts. No one's doing much argumentation.
2. "Should"? Please try to refrain from telling people what they "should" believe or what their moral (or even ethical) standards "should" be. That's a bit presumptuous, don't you think?
|
|
This pretty well sums up my opinion of the entire arguement. If you are willing to allow your children to play in a game where they will participate in, most likely, what is essentially murder (and occasionally just cause of the npc's race), then you should have no issue with just about anything else in any module.
If the modules were movies/tv, with the level of violence, I dont see any of them getting anything less than R/M.
1. Argument? What argument? Sounds to me like people are having a mature and rational discussion of a topic. People are telling their stories and their thoughts. No one's doing much argumentation.
2. "Should"? Please try to refrain from telling people what they "should" believe or what their moral (or even ethical) standards "should" be. That's a bit presumptuous, don't you think?
1. I never said people were arguing. I meant the 'arguement' of whether some of the stuff in the PFS mods is child appropriate. Sounds like a fine way to use the word to me.
2. Im using 'should' in a way where I think that if they dont have a problem with the inherent violent nature of the game itself, most parents arent going to have much of an issue (if one at all) with anything else in a module. I could be wrong, sure, but thats my opinion. Im not forcing opinions on anyone, just staing my own. So, please try to refrain from telling me what I should or shouldnt believe.
|
RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
|
1. I never said people were arguing. I meant the 'arguement' of whether some of the stuff in the PFS mods is child appropriate. Sounds like a fine way to use the word to me.
The general tone of the thread has seemed (to me) to be more of a "I've had this experience/taken these actions in the past, with these results". I see this as different from trying to make a case for certain material being universally appropriate or inappropriate. Perhaps I'm being more precise than was necessary, in which case, sorry for the brief disruption.
2. Im using 'should' in a way where I think that if they dont have a problem with the inherent violent nature of the game itself, most parents arent going to have much of an issue (if one at all) with anything else in a module. I could be wrong, sure, but thats my opinion. Im not forcing opinions on anyone, just staing my own.
Hm, I think your earlier statement was unclear, then. It sounded less like a statement of your own position ("I wouldn't have a problem with X if I was already okay with Y") or prediction ("I would guess that people okay with X would also be okay with Y"), and more like an insistence of a certain state ("If you are okay with X, you should be okay with Y" - your words). Looking back, I can see the alternate usage of "should" as a prediction, but I had to look for it. At a glance, it seemed more like an imperative sentence. Sorry for the mix-up, then. :)
So, please try to refrain from telling me what I should or shouldnt believe.
Hey now, I said nothing of the sort. I didn't even say whether or not I agreed with your stance/prediction, let alone suggest that you align your stance with mine. Keep putting words in my mouth and you're gonna make me cry.* :(
*I might not actually cry.
|
|
Just wondering how people deal with Violence... I am about to start with my kids but am a bit funny... not sure if my kids want to be eager to "kill" stuff.
Kids understand violence. They start understanding it when they reach toddler-age. Watch when you get your kids together with other kids for a play date. At some point, one kid will take a toy away from another kid and the other will whack him for it. As they get older, they understand it better, especially after they get into school and have to deal with bullies and sports (which is just a form of focused, moderated violence).
Adult themes are called "adult" themes for a reason. They are clearly defined by their name as being for adults and not for children.
-Skeld
|
|
Just wondering how people deal with Violence... I am about to start with my kids but am a bit funny... not sure if my kids want to be eager to "kill" stuff.Kids understand violence. They start understanding it when they reach toddler-age. Watch when you get your kids together with other kids for a play date. At some point, one kid will take a toy away from another kid and the other will whack him for it. As they get older, they understand it better, especially after they get into school and have to deal with bullies and sports (which is just a form of focused, moderated violence).
Adult themes are called "adult" themes for a reason. They are clearly defined by their name as being for adults and not for children.
-Skeld
And depending on your belief system, some folks think that violence of any kind, but mostly excessive violence is an Adult Theme.
|
|
I probably did just word the latter part of the post badly.
The last bit was me asking you not to tell me cause in your post you asked me not to tell other people, lol. I thought about putting it neary word for word, but thought that might come across as too snarky.
Please dont cry on my behalf, lol.
|
RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
|
And depending on your belief system, some folks think that violence of any kind, but mostly excessive violence is an Adult Theme.
Also, the idea of violence being inappropriate for children is not exclusive to "violence is bad" - for at least some folks (I'll not be so presumptuous as to pretend I know the proportion), the real concern is that a child will be disturbed by graphic images; i.e., seeing an excessively messy decapitation in a movie is more likely to give a child nightmares than saying "yep, that drops him" and removing a plastic mini from the table.
I mean, I'm sure several of you are familiar with the (totally awesome) show Avatar: the Last Airbender. It's a children's cartoon with plenty of violence. But it's never bloody and the plot even eventually addresses the question of whether or not to kill the BBEG (the main hero is a near-pacifist).
Okay, I said I wouldn't make a guess as to how many parents are more concerned with disturbing images than with violence as a concept, but I confess that I do have a hunch that it might be a pretty sizeable chunk of the population of western parents.
|
|
I love to play PF with my young son and this topic has intrigued me.
I like the "adult" themes discussion. On its face, yes the game deals with adult themes. But as has been stated, children pick up violence at an early age. Don't just watch them on the playground. Give them two robot toys---guess what the robots don't talk about how things are at home with the wife and kids----the robots fight one another.
What I enjoy about having my son play these games and try to teach him is that it's not all about violence and killing. The problem is, if you set him at a table of "adult" gamers, he learns that you immediately draw your weapon and kill the thing in the room that is preventing you from getting what you want.
I'm not saying players don't, from time to time, try and talk it out or use diplomacy, but more often than not, violence is the answer. Not because it's written that way, but because that's how we "adults" handle the situation.
|
|
And depending on your belief system, some folks think that violence of any kind, but mostly excessive violence is an Adult Theme.
My point was that children begin dealing with violence much earlier than they deal with any of the other "adult" themes and are therefore better capable of dealing with it at the age they might be introduced to RPGs than they are other adult themes. (For example, your typical 8-year-old likely has had experience and tools for dealing with violence in the form of fights at school or among peers or through sports like football, hockey, dodgeball, etc., while the same 8-year-old is very unlikely to have the capability for dealing with sexual themes of situations.)
While your statement above is certainly true, the people who feel that violence of any kind is an adult theme aren't people you're going to find playing many RPGs. In order to play D&D or Pahtfinder (or most any other RPG), there's a certain level of violence that you have to be willing to accept (the bad monster are about to attack the innocent villagers and the heroes must stop them with swords and spells, or something along those lines).
-Skeld