Comrade Anklebiter's Fun-Timey Revolutionary Socialism Thread


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Liberty's Edge

History: Lather, rinse, repeat... but you never get the same shine twice.


thejeff wrote:
TheWhiteknife wrote:


Yes I meant how quickly it was passed. I know they debated for 2 years about healthcare. But I guarantee you no one in the capitol building fully read and understood the ramifications of the final bill when it was passed. I would have rather that they waited one more year and made sure that it was completely right, just to be safe. I dont understand why anyone would have a problem with that view.

Because that's not how Congress works. It's never been how Congress works. It's never going to be how Congress works.

You don't write a huge complicated bill, cut all the deals you need to make to get enough votes for passage and then give everyone a year to read it to be sure it's completely right. Because the deals you need will change as the political situation changes and then you need to change the bill again. If they had worked on it for another year, they would have kept making changes and you still would complain that nobody had fully read and understood the ramifications of the final bill. And that whole time, nothing else would be accomplished.

The vast majority of legislators don't read the bills. Frankly they're not technically competent to understand most of them. They vote the polls or the party line or based on one particular hot-button issue in the bill. If you're lucky they'll have their staff prepare a summary and actually read that.
That's just how Washington works. If you want to eat the sausage, don't look too closely at how it's made.

And youre fine with that? I know that its how Congress works but it doesnt mean I have to like it. I think we Americans are becoming too complacent and too tolerant of the ineptitude of our elected officials.

So in summary, yes, I wish they had spent more time on the Health Care bill and got it right.


TheWhiteknife wrote:


And youre fine with that? I know that its how Congress works but it doesnt mean I have to like it. I think we Americans are becoming too complacent and too tolerant of the ineptitude of our elected officials.
So in summary, yes, I wish they had spent more time on the Health Care bill and got it right.

No, I'm not fine with it. I don't like it anymore than you do.

I wish they'd gotten it right, too. But the reason they didn't get it right wasn't that they didn't spend enough time on it and spending more time on it wouldn't have fixed it.

If you don't like the health care bill, that's fine. I'm not that fond of it either. But it's nonsensical to complain that it was passed to quickly. Of all the things wrong with it, that wasn't one.


ah, I think youve missed my point. My fault. Its not the speed at which they passed it, its the fact that I doubt they thought it through completely and understood how it is going to interact and synergize with existing laws and regulations.

Edit- to summarize the crux of dislike wasnt necessarily the time that it took but the lack of study and forethought.


yellowdingo wrote:
Crimson Jester wrote:

I wonder...

Yellow Dingo, Yellow Dingo, Yellow Dingo!

Sorry CJ didnt notice you there...failed my perception check.

Maybe if I can interject. Socialism is fundamentally flawed like all governments where one governs another. So instead of getting on the tyranny bandwagon might I brainwash you all into standing as independants at the Mayoral level on a Commonwealth Platform of Consensus where by you support the elimination of Democracy and the establishment of a process of Government where by every act of government requires the direct and regular approval of every citizen. This will ensure that no one may govern the freedoms of another.

It will require the approval of every citizen to validate the employment of every government official, A consenus vote of recognition of every law, indeed even religions and corporations which take part of what is ultimately a portion of resources owned by every citizen equally to function would require the approval of every citizen to do so.

The best government is obviously the one where we wait for JC Denton to merger with Helios and, with the accumulated nanoware that would become casual in installment amongst human beings, bring about a direct democracy guided by a philosopher AI god-king.


Crimson Jester wrote:

I just knew looking in a mirror would work.

I promise to use this power sparingly, for the terror I have unleashed is mighty.

I made my Will save against your mirror of opposition!

Also, I always enjoy Citizen Dingo's posts, so no terror there.


Spanky the Leprechaun wrote:
To which I would add,.......of course they didn't lead to socialism, because the Utopia is a pipe dream. It's impossible.

Sez who? You? Camus?

Spanky the Leprechaun wrote:

The only thing that scares me now, is possibly enough people seem to be unable to look at this big clusterf$!& and say "whelp......THAT didn't work."

I was told that those who don't know history are doomed to repeat it. What I WASN'T told, which has been dawning on me the last few years, is that......people who ACTUALLY KNOW HISTORY might be doomed to repeat it.

Well, if the ancient Greeks are right about time being cyclical, then we're doomed to repeat it whether we know our history or not.

The Exchange

Comrade Anklebiter wrote:
Crimson Jester wrote:

I just knew looking in a mirror would work.

I promise to use this power sparingly, for the terror I have unleashed is mighty.

I made my Will save against your mirror of opposition!

Also, I always enjoy Citizen Dingo's posts, so no terror there.

Party Pooper...go eat your Campbell's Soup!


1 person marked this as a favorite.

I don't have the time nor the energy for a long post at this time. Let's just say that Marx theory was quite correct in 1848, but became wrong when times changed. Labor condition back then could imply a general revolution of the masses, it could even be inevitable. But Marx failed in taking in account the possibility of a reform of capitalism. That actually happened (mostly due to the success of the russian revolution which actually went AGAINST marx prohecies as it was possible in a nation based on an almost medheival model rather than an industrial one) and giving more and more rights and moderately redestributing wealth in western countries helped a lot in stopping the risk of revolutions. Now, with the fall of USSR and the conversion of China to free market (with a communist dictatorship as governament model though) we see rights and welfare shrinking again, as the alternative to a capitalist sistem is now non-existent.

The other reason I think Marxist theory to be flawed is this: Marx was basiocally an Illuminist. He believed in good endings. He believed that human nature was basically good, so once everyone realized how much better everyone could live if they helped each other and shared resources instead of depriving one another of them everyone would embrace communism naturally (an oversimplified explanation, I know, but I don't really want to get into concepts like "dictatorship of the proletariat").
Unfortunately people are generally selfish (and that's not entirely bad, a totally selfless person has no personality nor will) and just want a "good ending" for themselves, skrew the others. With the USSR we saw they just sobstituted a ruling class (the chzarist aristocracy) with another one (the political personnel of the PCUS), basically human nature isn't good, very few people want what's good for everyone, most just want to improve their lot and if they need to skrew everyone else to get it... well so be it.

In D&D terms: Marx believed msot humans were Neutral Good while they actally were Neutral Evil.


Bring it, Zombie-boy!

(Um, Zombieneighbor-boy, not Aberzombie-boy.)

Oh, and I never saw Comrade Orcbane's post until now. Will read later.

EDIT: Actually, bring it tomorrow. I gotta go to bed.

The Exchange

Dude talk about delayed reaction.

Sovereign Court

Just popped in to say, In Soviet Canada, they make us read Camus in the original french.

Also, the Eighteenth Brumaire rocked.

Comrade Anklebiter, how do you feel about Harvey's spatialization of Marx in say, The urban process under capitalism?


Discovering Comrade Orcbane's post was an added, albeit delayed, bonus.

This is a non-delayed reaction to Citizen Zombieneighbors who didn't even have the decency to give me props on my Percy Bysshe Shelley quote in a thread that got started yesterday.

But, I did notice that you called me Dude and not Pinko Bastard. Are you feeling okay?

I am concerned about your health, Crimson Jester.


Robert Hawkshaw wrote:

Just popped in to say, In Soviet Canada, they make us read Camus in the original french.

Also, the Eighteenth Brumaire rocked.

Comrade Anklebiter, how do you feel about Harvey's spatialization of Marx in say, The urban process under capitalism?

Senior year in high school, my English class had to do a mock-trial based on The Stranger. Ironically, I ended up in the role of the Prosecutor and my best friend in that class ended up as Merseult (sp?--we DIDN'T read it in French).

Needless to say, I got him convicted and executed. Hee hee!

Anyway, I have no feelings about what you asked because I HAVE NO IDEA WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT. I readily concede that any economics professors (or just majors) will roundly kick my ass, but that doesn't mean I won't go down without a fight!

Us communist goblin Teamsters might not be terribly bright, Comrade Hawkshaw, but we are stubborn.

And, now I'm going to be late for work...

The Exchange

Comrade Anklebiter wrote:

Discovering Comrade Orcbane's post was an added, albeit delayed, bonus.

This is a non-delayed reaction to Citizen Zombieneighbors who didn't even have the decency to give me props on my Percy Bysshe Shelley quote in a thread that got started yesterday.

But, I did notice that you called me Dude and not Pinko Bastard. Are you feeling okay?

I am concerned about your health, Crimson Jester.

Thank you I am too, ya pinko Bastiche.


What level of socialism are we talking about? Regulations on economics or full blown commune living? I think the us constitution shows that federal intervention is needed for interstate commerce and trade with foreign countries, but when is enough, enough? Do we need a government owned everything? I work for those guys and believe me, you do not want them running your daycare.


Crimson Jester wrote:
ya pinko Bastiche.

Gesundheit.


Hiro wrote:
What level of socialism are we talking about? Regulations on economics or full blown commune living? I think the us constitution shows that federal intervention is needed for interstate commerce and trade with foreign countries, but when is enough, enough? Do we need a government owned everything? I work for those guys and believe me, you do not want them running your daycare.

Well, Citizen Hiro, I am talking about proletarian socialist revolution that would smash the present government and replace it with one made up of elected workers' councils whose members would be paid no more than the average workingman's wages and be subject to instant recall and would run a democratically planned collectivized economy.

I don't know what anyone else is talking about. Also, I certainly wouldn't want the current federal government running my daycare, but I would like to see current daycare workers running "the government". I put that in quotation marks because, of course, I want to smash the government.


Robert Hawkshaw wrote:


Also, the Eighteenth Brumaire rocked.

Yes, that was a very good book. I also liked The Civil War in France.

Spoilered for narcissistic solipsism

Spoiler:

And because I am a raving egomaniac I have to ask: Did you throw that out there for shiznit and giggles or did you see my post from a while back trolling that stooge of the plutocracy (but still my good friend) Comrade Curtin in the books thread?

Sovereign Court

Comrade Anklebiter wrote:
Robert Hawkshaw wrote:


Also, the Eighteenth Brumaire rocked.

Yes, that was a very good book. I also liked The Civil War in France.

Spoilered for narcissistic solipsism

** spoiler omitted **

Spoiler:
Just threw it out there because I read it last week. I've been rereading marx and reading other marxists as part of a seminar for my LLM

Comrade Anklebiter wrote:
I put that in quotation marks because, of course, I want to smash the government.

Hey I wanna smash the government too! Let's cobble together a Popular Front and string up all the Republicrats!

Then of course, our coalition will fall apart, poisoned by our own success, and a strong ruthless dictator will arise out of the chaos to 'bring America back to its Days of Glory' ... *sigh*

;)


@Comrade Hawkshaw

Well, please, continue: who and what are you reading?


Comrade Curtin! It is weird that in the 6 hours and 20 something minutes you had to reply that you posted in the same minute as me!

Duuuuuuuuuuuuude!

Next, I've seen how you get in these threads--if you're not "alternatively drunk," get out of here! You know it's only for your own good.

And finally, Down with the Popular Front! Long live a daycare workers' government!


Comrade Anklebiter wrote:

Comrade Curtin! It is weird that in the 6 hours and 20 something minutes you had to reply that you posted in the same minute as me!

Duuuuuuuuuuuuude!

Next, I've seen how you get in these threads--if you're not "alternatively drunk," get out of here! You know it's only for your own good.

And finally, Down with the Popular Front! Long live a daycare workers' government!

Not alternatively drunk yet, but soon enough, my good Bolshegoblin. I know this thread is light-hearted, the only reason I would post here (You'll notice I have been rolling Will Save boxcars on the more recent trollapaloozas hanging about). I only get mad when people are dour asshats and think insulting people passes for legitimate debate. However, I shall not micturate on your May Day celebration. Carry on Comrade. =)


Comrade!

[Kisses C. Curtin on both cheeks]

With that attitude you are, of course, welcome to stay and even tell anti-communist jokes.

I'm starting to think that with a lengthy dose of Criticism/Self-Criticism you will make a valued member of the Regional Soviet!

Sovereign Court

Comrade Anklebiter wrote:

@Comrade Hawkshaw

Well, please, continue: who and what are you reading?

Last week was David Harvey - the new imperialism and then chapters of the limits to capital and the urban work mentioned earlier

This week it is Antonio Gramsci's prison notebooks


Comrade Anklebiter wrote:

Comrade!

[Kisses C. Curtin on both cheeks]

With that attitude you are, of course, welcome to stay and even tell anti-communist jokes.

I'm starting to think that with a lengthy dose of Criticism/Self-Criticism you will make a valued member of the Regional Soviet!

If you can actually pull off a Soviet system that doesn't descend into Stalinist Statist redonculousness, I'd give it a whirl. I would hope you would need an oppositional figure around to keep yourself honest ;)

Sczarni

As a Union Leader, I heartily endorse the idea of Socialism, as long as I get to use the disgruntled citizens who refuse to be re-educated as sacrifices to Kali.

Bali Mangthi Kali Ma.

Shakthi Degi Kali Ma.

Kali ma... Kali ma... Kali ma, shakthi deh!


rata*tat*tat


Robert Hawkshaw wrote:
Comrade Anklebiter wrote:

@Comrade Hawkshaw

Well, please, continue: who and what are you reading?

Last week was David Harvey - the new imperialism and then chapters of the limits to capital and the urban work mentioned earlier

This week it is Antonio Gramsci's prison notebooks

I've never gotten around to reading Gramsci, but I did read some Amadeo Bordiga when I was a young goblin militant. I will have to look up Comrade Harvey.

Please keep this thread updated as the semester continues!


Patrick Curtin wrote:
Comrade Anklebiter wrote:

Comrade!

[Kisses C. Curtin on both cheeks]

With that attitude you are, of course, welcome to stay and even tell anti-communist jokes.

I'm starting to think that with a lengthy dose of Criticism/Self-Criticism you will make a valued member of the Regional Soviet!

If you can actually pull off a Soviet system that doesn't descend into Stalinist Statist redonculousness, I'd give it a whirl. I would hope you would need an oppositional figure around to keep yourself honest ;)

Comrade Curtin has successfully completed his program in Criticism/Self-Criticism

Spoiler:
All joking aside, C/SC is a Maoist concept that I do not endorse and leads to some pretty cult-like behavior
and will not be consigned to one of Comrade Thugee's Reeducation-Through-Having-Your-Heart-Ripped-Out-Super-Centers.

On the other hand, Comrade Curtin, now the FBI is watching you!


Union Thugee wrote:

As a Union Leader, I heartily endorse the idea of Socialism, as long as I get to use the disgruntled citizens who refuse to be re-educated as sacrifices to Kali.

The problem with most American unions today is that their leaders do not endorse socialism, so I am happy to issue Comrade Thugee a membership card in the Commonwealth Party of Galt (Marxist-Leninist).

I'm not sure how I feel about using reactionaries and counter-revolutionaries as human sacrifices, put I propose a compromise: How about a "Three-Strikes-And-You-Get-Your-Heart-Ripped-Out" policy? I think that should satisfy all concerned.

All praises to Kali!


Universal soldier #1 wrote:
rata*tat*tat

Rat-a-tat!

Boom!

Propaganda by the deed!

Rat-a-tat!


When I was a young goblin militant in Boston, I used to run into these crazy people calling themselves the Maoist Internationalist Movement. (You might think that's the pot calling the kettle black, but keep reading). They combined some of the worst aspects of Stalinism with crazy bat-s*~& feminism and Third Worldism.

Their newspaper MIM Notes was some of the funniest reading on the Far Left and although, unfortunately, they are now defunct, some enterprising soul has posted up a compilation of their film reviews (!) on the internet.

MIM's Maoist Movie Reviews

There is some very interesting reading in these reviews. I'll let you browse through them at your leisure, but before I do, I'll point out their reviews of the Conan films (progressive) and LoTR (reactionary!). Also, it's unfortunate that there isn't a review of Independence Day which, as I recall, said that in the event of an alien invasion it was permissible for the working class to form a united front with the bourgeoisie in order to fight off extraterrestrial oppressors!

I miss them.

The Exchange

Comrade Anklebiter wrote:

When I was a young goblin militant in Boston, I used to run into these crazy people calling themselves the Maoist Internationalist Movement. (You might think that's the pot calling the kettle black, but keep reading). They combined some of the worst aspects of Stalinism with crazy b~@&**# feminism and Third Worldism.

Their newspaper MIM Notes was some of the funniest reading on the Far Left and although, unfortunately, they are now defunct, some enterprising soul has posted up a compilation of their film reviews (!) on the internet.

MIM's Maoist Movie Reviews

There is some very interesting reading in these reviews. I'll let you browse through them at your leisure, but before I do, I'll point out their reviews of the Conan films (progressive) and LoTR (reactionary!). Also, it's unfortunate that there isn't a review of Independence Day which, as I recall, said that in the event of an alien invasion it was permissible for the working class to form a united front with the bourgeoisie in order to fight off extraterrestrial oppressors!

I miss them.

Quote:


we argue that artistic skill cannot
redeem a work with a fundamentally ugly political premise.

the principal aspect of the "Lord of the Rings" books is reactionary
in the sense that Tolkien pines for a return to a feudal "Golden Age" where
peasants and servants knew their place. There is also a distrust of science
and technology in "Lord of the Rings"

Man they must have been on some good drugs.


We often wondered whether they were serious or an elaborate joke. I think they were serious, though.


Comrade Anklebiter wrote:

When I was a young goblin militant in Boston, I used to run into these crazy people calling themselves the Maoist Internationalist Movement. (You might think that's the pot calling the kettle black, but keep reading). They combined some of the worst aspects of Stalinism with crazy bat-s$~% feminism and Third Worldism.

Their newspaper MIM Notes was some of the funniest reading on the Far Left and although, unfortunately, they are now defunct, some enterprising soul has posted up a compilation of their film reviews (!) on the internet.

MIM's Maoist Movie Reviews

There is some very interesting reading in these reviews. I'll let you browse through them at your leisure, but before I do, I'll point out their reviews of the Conan films (progressive) and LoTR (reactionary!). Also, it's unfortunate that there isn't a review of Independence Day which, as I recall, said that in the event of an alien invasion it was permissible for the working class to form a united front with the bourgeoisie in order to fight off extraterrestrial oppressors!

I miss them.

Thanks for the entertainment. I had to bookmark that.


Comrade Anklebiter wrote:

Comrade Curtin has successfully completed his program in Criticism/Self-Criticism ** spoiler omitted ** and will not be consigned to one of Comrade Thugee's Reeducation-Through-Having-Your-Heart-Ripped-Out-Super-Centers.

On the other hand, Comrade Curtin, now the FBI is watching you!

It's funny, but when Haier (a large Chinese appliance manufacturer) built a factory in America, they attempted to being a facet of C/SC management with them. In China, the worker with the least productive record for the week had to face a panel of people criticizing him and calling him a bad worker. Wanna guess how long that practice lasted in the USA?

Spoiler:
Never. The first worker refused to participate

I always assume the FBI (or somebody) is watching me. And I don't particularly care. If they really have nothing better to do than to track an aging gamer with no police record and who has served in the armed forces (honorably), then it is time to seriously start thinking about budget cuts. ;)


The Thing from Beyond the Edge wrote:


Thanks for the entertainment. I had to bookmark that.

You're welcome, Comrade Beyond the Edge.


Patrick Curtin wrote:


I always assume the FBI (or somebody) is watching me. And I don't particularly care.

That's what all the comrades say...until they end up in a FEMA camp!


Comrade Anklebiter wrote:
Patrick Curtin wrote:


I always assume the FBI (or somebody) is watching me. And I don't particularly care.

That's what all the comrades say...until they end up in a FEMA camp!

I'm sure when Hurricane Omega hits Cape Cod I'll be in one anyway, so why wait?


Well, comrades, I'll be back later. I have to prepare tonight's session of Crimson Crown so that my comrades can defeat the reactionary paper tigers of Harrowstone and foil their plans to introduce usurious interest-rates to the free yeomen of Ravengro!


"There is no other definition of communism valid for us than that of the abolition of the exploitation of goblin by ghost."
-Gob Guevarark, Goblin revolutionary.


Patrick Curtin wrote:
Comrade Anklebiter wrote:
Patrick Curtin wrote:


I always assume the FBI (or somebody) is watching me. And I don't particularly care.

That's what all the comrades say...until they end up in a FEMA camp!
I'm sure when Hurricane Omega hits Cape Cod I'll be in one anyway, so why wait?

Oops, just one more:

Comrade Curtin, when Hurricane Omega hits I suggest you seek shelter in our compound in NH. We have assault rifles, two years worth of freeze-dried rations and 80% of all Paizo's publications with which to amuse ourselves as FEMA scours Cape Cod looking for you. Let me know when you're showing up so I can corral the attack dogs.


Comrade Anklebiter wrote:
Comrade Curtin, when Hurricane Omega hits I suggest you seek shelter in our compound in NH. We have assault rifles, two years worth of freeze-dried rations and 80% of all Paizo's publications with which to amuse ourselves as FEMA scours Cape Cod looking for you. Let me know when you're showing up so I can corral the attack dogs.

Are you kidding? Do you know how many plutocrats live on the shorelines here? Think of the looting possibilities! =D

Sovereign Court

Comrade Anklebiter wrote:

Well, comrades, I'll be back later. I have to prepare tonight's session of Crimson Crown so that my comrades can defeat the reactionary paper tigers of Harrowstone and foil their plans to introduce usurious interest-rates to the free yeomen of Ravengro!

Spoiler:

The small-holding peasants form an enormous mass whose members live in similar conditions but without entering into manifold relations with each other. Their mode of production isolates them from one another instead of bringing them into mutual intercourse. The isolation is furthered by France’s poor means of communication and the poverty of the peasants. Their field of production, the small holding, permits no division of labor in its cultivation, no application of science, and therefore no multifariousness of development, no diversity of talent, no wealth of social relationships. Each individual peasant family is almost self-sufficient, directly produces most of its consumer needs, and thus acquires its means of life more through an exchange with nature than in intercourse with society. A small holding, the peasant and his family; beside it another small holding, another peasant and another family. A few score of these constitute a village, and a few score villages constitute a department. Thus the great mass of the French nation is formed by the simple addition of homologous magnitudes, much as potatoes in a sack form a sack of potatoes. Insofar as millions of families live under conditions of existence that separate their mode of life, their interests, and their culture from those of the other classes, and put them in hostile opposition to the latter, they form a class. Insofar as there is merely a local interconnection among these small-holding peasants, and the identity of their interests forms no community, no national bond, and no political organization among them, they do not constitute a class. They are therefore incapable of asserting their class interest in their own name, whether through a parliament or a convention.

I think you have to let them be oppressed, in order to foster their class conciousness and transform them from potatos to proletariat.

Harvey's recent work is pretty accessable, it seems to be written for a broader audience than your usual academic crowd.


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One of the major debates here in the Galtic Left was whether Golarion needs to proceed through capitalism to socialism or whether we can use cheaper magical items to skip over the bourgeois stage and just start building communism with wish spells.

The Exchange

Wouldn't wish spells just reinforce a plutocracy?


1 person marked this as a favorite.

Don't forget there is also anarcho-trade-unionism (anarcho-communism) which recently evolved into libertarian-socialism (yes, they are compatible...) under the banner of the Pirate Parties.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pirate_Parties_International

And no, it's not a joke, they even got elected someplaces. It's also official here in Canada (they presented a few runners at the last federal election) and active, if not officially registered, in the States.

They, like Ye olde anarcho-communist, want to aim for libertarianism on the social side (the state should be neutral in term of values and religion, exception made for violent ideologies) and socialism in term of economy (the state should regulate power, information and social needs - health, schools, housing, etc) in order to grant universal access and guarantee the ideological neutrality of those institutions, meaning regulating competition and busting monopolies and economic collusions between lets say, information and political power, or economic power and access to information, etc.

They are not against capitalism (it drives innovation, and small enterprises and coops under free trade laws are necessary to society), only against "big corporatism". They think the only way to garantee a real free trade (sane competition) is to have a neutral government regulating some precise trades as to remove private economic pressure on the democratic power, and that is also the only way to garantee the maximum amount of personal freedom.

They try to deal with the personal liberty / common needs dichotomy in a very interresting (if not totally new) way.

Just saying, because a lot of people in this tread seems to think libertarianism and socialism are incompatible. They are not.


Crimson Jester wrote:
Wouldn't wish spells just reinforce a plutocracy?

It depends who does the casting and what is wished for. The worker's state needs to keep a close eye on its technical professionals and wizards.

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