Best system for Cyberpunk?


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The Exchange

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@stroVal wrote:
Wintergreen wrote:

Last month I actually ran a game of Cyberpunk in 2013 - the year that the first edition of Cyberpunk was set in!

I actually ran the scenario as a prequel to my Cyberpunk game (so set a few years before the campaign started) and had one of the players dramatically start the Cyberpunk movement with a wonderfully dramatic performance!

:) Which version of the system did you use?

As some of the players hadn't played Cyberpunk before and others hadn't played it for over 10 years I went for a stripped down version of the 2020 rules with a couple of my own mods.

Went very smoothly. Definitely want to do more.


World of Darkness, using the sourcebook called "Mirrors" ruleset for Cyberpunk is my avenue of choice.

It's great for Post-Cyberpunk/Dark Shadowrun hybrid games.

Liberty's Edge

I use to love playing Cyberpunk 2020, (and 2013 but mostly 2020,) just stay away from the 3rd Ed. If you are looking with something that feels like Blade Runner then those are your books. Now if you like that feel with a fantasy twist the Shadowrun’s your game.


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There's nothing wrong with Cyberpunk V3 in terms of the system. It's Interlock-heavy Fuzion, and although setting-wise it is lacking a large chunk of detail on the various Alt-Cults (and what many of their special abilities and cultures are like), the system is just as solid as it was in the 2013/2020 versions.

Now, a lot of folks say "stay away from V3" because they don't like the art. Frankly, not a lot of people agreed with Mike's decision to go with the 1/6th scale figures in dioramas over the traditional art line, and yeah, had he been able to pull off what some of the Japanese 1/6th aficionado's can do with their photos, it would have been a lot better received. He made a call, and it didn't work. But art is not the game, and the game is not the art. The system itself is just as solid as it was in 2013/2020, and in some ways is a lot *more* solid (as it uses Fuzion's stat system, which doesn't depend on the "I have a 10 in Reflexes!" exploit as much, for instance).

I've run a number of V3 games, all of them went quite well. I don't prefer it over 2020, but it works fine.


I'd like to throw one question, I made a separate thread for, here as well:

Anyone tried Ashen Stars (or the Gumshoe system in general) for a pure Cyberpunk campaign?

Does it work? And if so how much tinkering will it need?


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I've never even heard of Ashen Stars or Gumshoe.

What can you tell me about it? Should I hie my haste to the Google?

Unrelated, a small bit from my PBEM Cyberpunk game, in which I prove that advertising is everything (a nice tie in for the big game happening today, I think...)

Spoiler:
In the Advert Cloud, a woman's holographic form dances slowly, arms and hips undulating in slow figure eights. The ad does a slow pan-and-close up from her bare navel, over her breasts, up her neck, and focuses on her lips. Full and moist, lacquered red, they part, and the holo flashes a dozen languages worth of subtitles as she whispers, her voice full of sexual anticipation, "Drink More Jukee."


@stroVal wrote:

I'd like to throw one question, I made a separate thread for, here as well:

Anyone tried Ashen Stars (or the Gumshoe system in general) for a pure Cyberpunk campaign?

Does it work? And if so how much tinkering will it need?

I purchased Ashen Stars (and some other Gumshoe games) at CanCon this year. I haven't had a proper look yet, but I'd suspect a hell of a lot of tweaking if you're actually looking to run pure cyberpunk. Mutant City Blues might work better (reskin the powers as cyberware/bioware as necessary).


jemstone wrote:

I've never even heard of Ashen Stars or Gumshoe.

What can you tell me about it? Should I hie my haste to the Google?

Unrelated, a small bit from my PBEM Cyberpunk game, in which I prove that advertising is everything (a nice tie in for the big game happening today, I think...)

** spoiler omitted **

GUMSHOE System - Wikipedia

Basically it's an investigation focused system created by Robin D. Laws. Supports a range of games. Probably best known for Trail of Cthulhu. Games I've got for the system are Ashen Stars, The Esoterrorists and Mutant City Blues. I'll be picking up Fear Itself and Night's Black Agents when I get a chance.

Reason I don't think Ashen Stars would be a good choice is because it's built as an (admittedly somewhat noir/investigative) space opera, which isn't really what I'd consider a good genre to try and build cyberpunk out of.


Tinkergoth wrote:
jemstone wrote:

I've never even heard of Ashen Stars or Gumshoe.

What can you tell me about it? Should I hie my haste to the Google?

Unrelated, a small bit from my PBEM Cyberpunk game, in which I prove that advertising is everything (a nice tie in for the big game happening today, I think...)

** spoiler omitted **

GUMSHOE System - Wikipedia

Basically it's an investigation focused system created by Robin D. Laws. Supports a range of games. Probably best known for Trail of Cthulhu. Games I've got for the system are Ashen Stars, The Esoterrorists and Mutant City Blues. I'll be picking up Fear Itself and Night's Black Agents when I get a chance.

Reason I don't think Ashen Stars would be a good choice is because it's built as an (admittedly somewhat noir/investigative) space opera, which isn't really what I'd consider a good genre to try and build cyberpunk out of.

Ah ha! Thank you!


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Ambrosia Slaad wrote:
Even though it's technically "post-cyberpunk," I'm going to throw in a plug for the excellent Eclipse Phase. I much prefer it -- rules, flavor, and crunch -- over Cyberpunk. Plus, it's licensed under Creative Commons, so you can download the core book for free (Posthuman Studios actually seed the torrents themselves). If you like it an enjoy it, you can always support them by buying the PDF through DriveThruRPG, or picking up the hardcover here at Paizo when the new printing arrives.

That game sounds awesome.


Lemartes wrote:
Ambrosia Slaad wrote:
Even though it's technically "post-cyberpunk," I'm going to throw in a plug for the excellent Eclipse Phase. I much prefer it -- rules, flavor, and crunch -- over Cyberpunk. Plus, it's licensed under Creative Commons, so you can download the core book for free (Posthuman Studios actually seed the torrents themselves). If you like it an enjoy it, you can always support them by buying the PDF through DriveThruRPG, or picking up the hardcover here at Paizo when the new printing arrives.
That game sounds awesome.

Yeah I was trying to buy Eclipse Phase and all the expansion books out at CanCon, but everyone seemed to have the expansions and no core rules... and by the time one of the shops managed to track down a copy and say "oh, we found it, here you go" when I headed back out on the second day, I'd spent all my money already. So in the mean time I've got my free downloads, but I'm going to get the hardcovers when I can.

That said, as Ambrosia said, it's not really cyberpunk so much as it is where cyberpunk may eventually lead.


Tinkergoth wrote:
Lemartes wrote:
Ambrosia Slaad wrote:
Even though it's technically "post-cyberpunk," I'm going to throw in a plug for the excellent Eclipse Phase. I much prefer it -- rules, flavor, and crunch -- over Cyberpunk. Plus, it's licensed under Creative Commons, so you can download the core book for free (Posthuman Studios actually seed the torrents themselves). If you like it an enjoy it, you can always support them by buying the PDF through DriveThruRPG, or picking up the hardcover here at Paizo when the new printing arrives.
That game sounds awesome.

Yeah I was trying to buy Eclipse Phase and all the expansion books out at CanCon, but everyone seemed to have the expansions and no core rules... and by the time one of the shops managed to track down a copy and say "oh, we found it, here you go" when I headed back out on the second day, I'd spent all my money already. So in the mean time I've got my free downloads, but I'm going to get the hardcovers when I can.

That said, as Ambrosia said, it's not really cyberpunk so much as it is where cyberpunk may eventually lead.

Seems well thoughtout. I'm fine with it not being true cyberpunk.


Lemartes wrote:
Tinkergoth wrote:
Lemartes wrote:
Ambrosia Slaad wrote:
Even though it's technically "post-cyberpunk," I'm going to throw in a plug for the excellent Eclipse Phase. I much prefer it -- rules, flavor, and crunch -- over Cyberpunk. Plus, it's licensed under Creative Commons, so you can download the core book for free (Posthuman Studios actually seed the torrents themselves). If you like it an enjoy it, you can always support them by buying the PDF through DriveThruRPG, or picking up the hardcover here at Paizo when the new printing arrives.
That game sounds awesome.

Yeah I was trying to buy Eclipse Phase and all the expansion books out at CanCon, but everyone seemed to have the expansions and no core rules... and by the time one of the shops managed to track down a copy and say "oh, we found it, here you go" when I headed back out on the second day, I'd spent all my money already. So in the mean time I've got my free downloads, but I'm going to get the hardcovers when I can.

That said, as Ambrosia said, it's not really cyberpunk so much as it is where cyberpunk may eventually lead.

Seems well thoughtout. I'm fine with it not being true cyberpunk.

Oh yeah, it's not a problem. Was more commenting on that due to the fact that @stroVal was talking about a pure cyberpunk game. Not to say that Eclipse phase couldn't be reflavoured as well, since they're already looking at doing that with a GUMSHOE game.


Cyberpunk 2020 was my favorite, though Interface Zero 2.0 for the Savage Worlds system is really good too. IZ 2.0 is also currently being adapted to the Pathfinder system.


I've been meaning to check out Interface Zero 2.0. I've been mucking around with a few Savage Worlds settings. Deadlands (including Hell on Earth Reloaded and Noir), Battle for Oz and East Texas University for the most part, but I was thinking I might add sci-fi or cyberpunk to the mix.


Personally I think IZ is better for Shirow-punk than western cyberpunk. Not that there is anything wrong with Shirow-punk, I love it. But it is thematically fairly different, much less anti-capitalist, infinitely more pro-state, less nihilist and much more hopeful.


Big thumbs up for Cyberpunk 2020/Interlock. It is incredibly easy to adapt that system to whatever game you want to run. It does grit like no other system I've ever seen and has intuitive advancement mechanics. Its also possible just to slap together some pathetic gangers and have a shootout in some convenience store, and have an amazing afternoon of fun.

Just avoid the Cybergeneration book and its various supplements like the plague.


Doomed Hero wrote:
Just avoid the Cybergeneration book and its various supplements like the plague.

Son, I am disappoint.

Cybergeneration is full of a bunch of beaten-down youth who live on a planet that was destroyed by their parents' generation and who get no choice in having a crappy hand dealt to them. The game is about kids coming together in a viral, underground revolution designed to take down a corporate state, stop a blatant eugenics war, and make the world a better place. And that revolution? It's not even theirs. That revolution is put together by a handful of rebels who refuse to accept that they lost the war. The kids? They're weapons being used by both sides to try and break down and destroy the opposition. What happens when the kids wake up and figure that out is anyone's guess. Cybergeneration is full of rampantly psychotic AI's, literal ghosts in machines, and the overpowering and overwhelming knowledge that you are facing opponents who could literally wipe you off the map from a hundred miles away with the flick of a switch if they ever figure out where you're hiding.

You might not like the Evolved powers (and I'm guessing you don't), but brother, there ain't nothing more dystopian and Cyberpunk than that setup.


Cybergeneration turns all the characters into superheroes. The grit and desperation is lost in the kewl powerz.

I can enjoy that dystopian future where children are the currency in a shadow war without having the kids be the Blade Runner X-Men. If that is the story I wanted to tell, I'd use a system designed for superpowers, not one that tacked them on afterward and struggles with the implementation.


Doomed Hero wrote:


Cybergeneration turns all the characters into superheroes. The grit and desperation is lost in the kewl powerz.

Then I posit that you are missing the forest for the trees.

The powers in that game are not cool. They're not a gift. They're a curse and they will get you killed stone dead.

You've got powers?

Okay. Use them in public without everyone around you flipping out and trying to kill you because you're a monstrous freak who will infect everyone and turn the lucky ones into horrible, disfigured mutants.

You've got powers?

Cool. Now watch your friends turn into silver sand because the itty bitty nanomachines crawling around in your blood decided you tasted good and your friends (like 99% of all the other kids who get infected - remember, the Evolved are *ridiculously rare*) tasted bad. Have fun living with their screams in your head every night. But hey, you're a Wizard, maybe you can make a bunch of Familiars in each of their likenesses, and you'll never be alone. Ever again.

You've got powers?

That's great. You can see the thoughts and emotions in everyone around you. You can feel their fear and panic when they look at strangers on the street, wondering "is that child a monster?" And maybe you are a monster. After all, you made mom and dad love you again, didn't you? All you did was touch them, and their brains were yours to play with. You can make anyone love you. So why do so many people hate you?

You've got powers?

Fantastic. The nanomachines have fixed your teeth, they've fixed your eyes, they've thrown away all your junk DNA and made you perfect. The cops have scanners for that sort of thing. They have guns that can track you from over a kilometer, and they have every right to use them. "Show me your teeth!" used to be a call to bravery. Now it's a slur shouted out by paranoid security guards who grab your face in their vise-like grips and shove a taser in your ribs if you don't smile wide for their cameras on command.

You've got powers?

You're a monster, and you deserve what you get.

Quote:
I can enjoy that dystopian future where children are the currency in a shadow war without having the kids be the Blade Runner X-Men. If that is the story I wanted to tell, I'd use a system designed for superpowers, not one that tacked them on afterward and struggles with the implementation.

I hear this sort of statement a lot from people who have heard about the game but never actually played it. I'm not going to assume that you haven't, but I put it to you that if you did play a game, and it was as you're describing, then the person running the game simply didn't get it. They didn't read the (very useful) section on how to run the game, and how to set the mood. A good Cybergeneration game should be somewhere between Streets Of Fire and The Warriors. Paranoia should be the letter of the day. Optimism should run as an undercurrent, but the "never trust anyone over 30" rule should be tattooed on the eyelids of every kid in the game. You should have a tired, ragged, paranoid group of kids being thrown into a world that wants to use them for what they represent instead of what they can accomplish.

The Cyber Evolved have the potential to fix the world. Alchemists can purify and renew soil. Tinmen are literally tireless workers. Scanners can keep an entire community mentally and spiritually healthy. Wizards can speak to anyone in the world on a whim. Bolters have the ability to power any machine they want. These kids can save the Human Race.

And they get turned into weapons. They get sent out to fight other kids. They watch their best friends turn into sand. Their parents try to poison them, or put bullets in their heads, or worse.

I rarely (like, hardly ever) tell someone that the way they run their game is "wrong," but in this case, I'll make an exception.

Whoever ran a Cybergeneration game in the way you describe? They missed the point entirely. They were doing it wrong.

They missed the forest for the trees.

(And straight up - if we're ever in the same place at the same time and a game can happen, I will show you what a good CG game is supposed to be.)


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I've never seen the game played the way you describe. That sounds interesting to me. The three different games I've played (with three completely different groups of people) always seemed to end up as something that felt more like science fiction superhero anime rather than cyberpunk.

I am not opposed to the idea of cybergeneration but I find that it runs into the same problem that pretty much every World of Darkness game does. Fantastic, interesting premise and setting. Godawful angst-wank Mary Sue characters.

I would say that it all depends on the group, but in my experience there is always someone who turns the whole story into a self-parody.

I don't want to play a bunch of super-special cyber-snowflakes. I want to play a bunch of desperate smalltime hoods caught up in a street deal gone south, or a team of troubleshooters who are being blackmailed to take a contract that is out of their league.

It's a difference of thematic intent.


Doomed Hero wrote:
I've never seen the game played the way you describe. That sounds interesting to me. The three different games I've played (with three completely different groups of people) always seemed to end up as something that felt more like science fiction superhero anime rather than cyberpunk.

I see that you are in "Northern California."

I'm in the San Jose area. If either of my regular groups gets a spare spot and you're in a reasonable driving distance, the next time I run a CG game, you are free to join us.

I will even float the idea across my Monday night group tonight, if you'd like.

Quote:

I am not opposed to the idea of cybergeneration but I find that it runs into the same problem that pretty much every World of Darkness game does. Fantastic, interesting premise and setting. Godawful angst-wank Mary Sue characters.

I would say that it all depends on the group, but in my experience there is always someone who turns the whole story into a self-parody.

Oh, man. Don't even get me started on the laundry list of issues I have with the typical WoD game. What you've seen in CG, I've seen there. So many times.

Quote:

I don't want to play a bunch of super-special cyber-snowflakes. I want to play a bunch of desperate smalltime hoods caught up in a street deal gone south, or a team of troubleshooters who are being blackmailed to take a contract that is out of their league.

It's a difference of thematic intent.

Now, see, I want that kind of Cyberpunk Game. In almost every game I've played*, everyone's a top-rank, hard-edged Cybersoldier of Fortune with amazing gear and enough firepower in one briefcase to take over a small country. If it's in Chrome Book, it's on their sheet. They forget that if the guns come out in a Cyberpunk game, something has gone terribly wrong and someone is about to die, and just keep piling on the ammo boxes.

I'd like less "I bought a Volt Gun! I shoot the full-borg Dragoon in the face and scavenge him for parts!" and more "I've got three rounds and a knife left, there are sixteen guys with tac-armor and dobermans guarding that warehouse, and you know what? I'm not sure we made a good deal, Bob."

But then, I'm the guy who in a military game made an ACPA trooper who was addicted to his suit and in love with his technician, while everyone else made Yet Another Cybernetic Super Soldier, so take anything I say with a grain of salt, since I clearly don't play or run the game as is "normally done."

*:
And it's worse in Shadowrun, lemme tell you.

Liberty's Edge

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On the other hand Jem, from what you've said you pretty much play the game as MaxMike envisioned and intended.

Fun can be had at all power levels.

One of my favorite games was essentially a family drama of a retired elite solo (in a Swedish TC body) who got saddled with two small children years ago by an old teammate who had a bodyguard/extraction gig go bad. Her employers got whacked and she gave the only person she could trust a five year old boy and a 18 month old girl while she went to get payback and never returned.

Fast forward 12 years. Boy is angsty and involved in combat sports, ignoring his school studies and dreaming of making it big time. His girlfriend is an edgerunner fan girl and aspiring solo. Oh, she's also the runaway daughter of an Araska exec. Girl is typical upper middle class mall rat. Cyborg is struggling with his humanity (and doing ok), being a father (and not doing all that well), and trying to raise the kids safe and sane while not 'selling out'.

Then boy loses his arm in a match, girl runs afoul of a local gang, and girlfriend's daddy finds her slumming it with a go-gang.

All heck breaks loose. And when the cyborg player tries to use his power (both physical and social) to make it all better hilarity ensues as the girlfriend latches onto him as her 'mentor' and he tries to convince her that this is not a life she wants.

Lots of fun, with three distinctly different power levels. Cyborg was a full blown edgerunner with lots of experience and power, boy and girlfriend were essentially starting edgerunners, and the girl was a unenhanced kid ala CyberGen.

Not necessarily the envisioned type of game for CP2020, but we enjoyed it.

As for CyberGen turning into Anime, DH, maybe the groups were just ahead of the curve since in 160 years CP2020 becomes a Gundam pastiche. ;)


Hey, now. That Gundam Pastiche got me my first actual paying gig and I'll have you know I poured my heart into all those ODF and Midnight Suns mecha.

I still think the illustration for the Harbinger needed more spikes. It was supposed to be covered in spikes.

And as it happens, I've always felt that the post-eco-collapse world of Starblade ends up that way because the Corporate Overlords of the Cyberpunk world wipe out all the Cyber Evolved - preventing them from saving the world - and then adapt the CNM's into what eventually becomes the "Livemetal" technology that pervades SBB. What they didn't understand, they eliminated and exploited.

Which is totally Cyberpunk, really.

Liberty's Edge

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Which may well explain why the rumored alien invaders are just a wee bit peeved.

And there's nothing wrong with the Gundam Pastiche. It's a great setting book. Plus the Alt/Dominica thing we discussed in the past. SBB is pure awesome.


Krensky wrote:
Which may well explain why the rumored alien invaders are just a wee bit peeved.

Holds thumb and forefinger slightly apart, while looking through the gap.

Liiiiiiiitle bit.

Quote:
And there's nothing wrong with the Gundam Pastiche. It's a great setting book. Plus the Alt/Dominica thing we discussed in the past. SBB is pure awesome.

I still wish Mike had let me try my five-module fix for the setting. I could have done it. I really could have.

Plus I could have actually fleshed out the Jewel Cities in Saturn's rings, and set up a whole bunch of Philosopher-themed NPC's, and and and and...

Spoiler:
Bonus: Somewhere around here I still have the SBB convention game notes for "Nuke, Nuke, Who's Got The Nuke?"


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jemstone wrote:
Doomed Hero wrote:


Cybergeneration turns all the characters into superheroes. The grit and desperation is lost in the kewl powerz.

Then I posit that you are missing the forest for the trees.

The powers in that game are not cool. They're not a gift. They're a curse and they will get you killed stone dead.

You've got powers?

Okay. Use them in public without everyone around you flipping out and trying to kill you because you're a monstrous freak who will infect everyone and turn the lucky ones into horrible, disfigured mutants.

You've got powers?

Cool. Now watch your friends turn into silver sand because the itty bitty nanomachines crawling around in your blood decided you tasted good and your friends (like 99% of all the other kids who get infected - remember, the Evolved are *ridiculously rare*) tasted bad. Have fun living with their screams in your head every night. But hey, you're a Wizard, maybe you can make a bunch of Familiars in each of their likenesses, and you'll never be alone. Ever again.

You've got powers?

That's great. You can see the thoughts and emotions in everyone around you. You can feel their fear and panic when they look at strangers on the street, wondering "is that child a monster?" And maybe you are a monster. After all, you made mom and dad love you again, didn't you? All you did was touch them, and their brains were yours to play with. You can make anyone love you. So why do so many people hate you?

You've got powers?

Fantastic. The nanomachines have fixed your teeth, they've fixed your eyes, they've thrown away all your junk DNA and made you perfect. The cops have scanners for that sort of thing. They have guns that can track you from over a kilometer, and they have every right to use them. "Show me your teeth!" used to be a call to bravery. Now it's a slur shouted out by paranoid security guards who grab your face in their vise-like grips and shove a taser in your ribs if you don't smile wide for their cameras on command....

... I really want to play this now.


jemstone wrote:


Now, see, I want that kind of Cyberpunk Game. In almost every game I've played*, everyone's a top-rank, hard-edged Cybersoldier of Fortune with amazing gear and enough firepower in one briefcase to take over a small country. If it's in Chrome Book, it's on their sheet. They forget that if the guns come out in a Cyberpunk game, something has gone terribly wrong and someone is about to die, and just keep piling on the ammo boxes.
I'd like less "I bought a Volt Gun! I shoot the full-borg Dragoon in the face and scavenge him for parts!" and more "I've got three rounds and a knife left, there are sixteen guys with tac-armor and dobermans guarding that warehouse, and you know what? I'm not sure we made a good deal, Bob."

The problem with that kind of scenario is that it ends minutes later with a TPK. Unless the players are incredibly clever, like caper mover clever, or the GM helps them, since no one is really caper movie clever without the writer on their side.

Besides, despite the "if the guns come out in a Cyberpunk game, something has gone terribly wrong and someone is about to die" meme, every cyberpunk game I've looked at has had essentially the same emphasis on combat as the average fantasy RPG. Lots of rules for combat. Lots of powers for combat. Lots of gear for combat. That includes most of the really cool stuff.
Building uber combat monsters is pretty much the expected reaction to being told that combat is ridiculously lethal. You know it's going to happen anyway, so you'd better be ready to survive it.

Mind you, I'd love a cyberpunk system that focused elsewhere, that had mechanics for running non-combat heists, for example, that were as detailed and interactive as the combat system is. That gave everyone something to do and allowed as many types of specialization in that as most games have in combat roles.


thejeff wrote:
jemstone wrote:


Now, see, I want that kind of Cyberpunk Game. In almost every game I've played*, everyone's a top-rank, hard-edged Cybersoldier of Fortune with amazing gear and enough firepower in one briefcase to take over a small country. If it's in Chrome Book, it's on their sheet. They forget that if the guns come out in a Cyberpunk game, something has gone terribly wrong and someone is about to die, and just keep piling on the ammo boxes.
I'd like less "I bought a Volt Gun! I shoot the full-borg Dragoon in the face and scavenge him for parts!" and more "I've got three rounds and a knife left, there are sixteen guys with tac-armor and dobermans guarding that warehouse, and you know what? I'm not sure we made a good deal, Bob."

The problem with that kind of scenario is that it ends minutes later with a TPK. Unless the players are incredibly clever, like caper mover clever, or the GM helps them, since no one is really caper movie clever without the writer on their side.

Besides, despite the "if the guns come out in a Cyberpunk game, something has gone terribly wrong and someone is about to die" meme, every cyberpunk game I've looked at has had essentially the same emphasis on combat as the average fantasy RPG. Lots of rules for combat. Lots of powers for combat. Lots of gear for combat. That includes most of the really cool stuff.
Building uber combat monsters is pretty much the expected reaction to being told that combat is ridiculously lethal. You know it's going to happen anyway, so you'd better be ready to survive it.

Mind you, I'd love a cyberpunk system that focused elsewhere, that had mechanics for running non-combat heists, for example, that were as detailed and interactive as the combat system is. That gave everyone something to do and allowed as many types of specialization in that as most games have in combat roles.

Yeah I've always found that kind of funny. "If you get into a fight, you're doing it wrong and you're going to die" is what I was actually told by a GM for a Shadowrun game once. He then promptly threw us into a situation that had no way of getting out without a fight, and involved liberal use of the "Chunky Salsa" rule (for those unaware of it, chunky salsa is the slang for the result of explosions in a confined space strong enough to contain and reflect the force of the explosions... basically all that's left bears somewhat of a resemblance to... well, I'm sure you get the idea). Any game that has that much thought put into combat rules seems to be expecting players to get into those situations.


Jem, San Jose is a 6 hour commute for me. When I say "northern" I mean "closer to Oregon than any recognizable part of California"

I appreciate the offer though.

Have you considered running a Play by Post game?


Doomed Hero wrote:
Jem, San Jose is a 6 hour commute for me. When I say "northern" I mean "closer to Oregon than any recognizable part of California"

OHHHHHHHHH. NORTH.

Quote:

I appreciate the offer though.

Have you considered running a Play by Post game?

I actually ran a play-by-email CG game for over a decade. It was a pretty immense effort, making sure everyone posted on time and regularly. Not something I can do with my current work schedule, I'm afraid. :(


jemstone wrote:
Doomed Hero wrote:
Have you considered running a Play by Post game?
I actually ran a play-by-email CG game for over a decade. It was a pretty immense effort, making sure everyone posted on time and regularly. Not something I can do with my current work schedule, I'm afraid. :(

I hear that. PBEM is a particularly labor-intense format.

I actually really like the setup Paizo has here for PBP games. It takes out a lot of the legwork. As long as your players check in, they can see at a glance what has updated, and they don't have to sort through their email to find all the various replies. It is all centrally located and easily organized.

If you're interested in trying it, PM me. I'll see about getting you into one of the games I'm in so you can try the format.


It would not be for some time, but if you lot would be interested in an IZ 2.0 game PM me for future reference.


Nohwear wrote:
It would not be for some time, but if you lot would be interested in an IZ 2.0 game PM me for future reference.

I would totally be interested in that, except that given time zone differences and work patterns, odds are my posting schedule would be way off compared to what you'd be looking for. Given that it's now 12:30 AM here (currently later than I'm normally up) and it's currently 5:30 AM the day before in San Jose (using Jemstone's location as an example), I suspect I'd be making all my posts in the middle of the night for you and not seeing responses for a significant period of time (I can check the boards in general while I'm at work, posting for PbPs might be taking things a bit too far :P)

Still, have fun with it, and post when you get it started. I plan to live vicariously by lurking all over your discussion and gameplay threads.


Tinkergoth wrote:
Nohwear wrote:
It would not be for some time, but if you lot would be interested in an IZ 2.0 game PM me for future reference.

I would totally be interested in that, except that given time zone differences and work patterns, odds are my posting schedule would be way off compared to what you'd be looking for. Given that it's now 12:30 AM here (currently later than I'm normally up) and it's currently 5:30 AM the day before in San Jose (using Jemstone's location as an example), I suspect I'd be making all my posts in the middle of the night for you and not seeing responses for a significant period of time (I can check the boards in general while I'm at work, posting for PbPs might be taking things a bit too far :P)

Still, have fun with it, and post when you get it started. I plan to live vicariously by lurking all over your discussion and gameplay threads.

The best part about PbP games is that different time zones aren't a problem. One of my favorite games was run by a guy who lived in Serbia. One player was in England, the rest were scattered around the US. We'd post during our day, go to bed, and wake up to to GM responses. It was never a problem.

If you are interested in the game, jump in. Your comparative time differences won't be a problem.


Fair enough. The games I've seen in the past (not so much here on Paizo, I haven't looked at them much here) tended to have everyone posting around the same time on a bit of a schedule.

I'll see how I go anyway. I've got a few local games and a fairly hectic schedule, but it's certainly something I'll check out.

Liberty's Edge

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jemstone wrote:
Krensky wrote:
Which may well explain why the rumored alien invaders are just a wee bit peeved.

Holds thumb and forefinger slightly apart, while looking through the gap.

Liiiiiiiitle bit.

Quote:
And there's nothing wrong with the Gundam Pastiche. It's a great setting book. Plus the Alt/Dominica thing we discussed in the past. SBB is pure awesome.

I still wish Mike had let me try my five-module fix for the setting. I could have done it. I really could have.

Plus I could have actually fleshed out the Jewel Cities in Saturn's rings, and set up a whole bunch of Philosopher-themed NPC's, and and and and...

** spoiler omitted **

Ooooh.... Was it the Midnight Suns? I bet it was the Midnight Suns.

Anyway, reading over your description that is a little bleaker than I'd run CG. Yes, Blackhand, Silverhand, Rache (sorta), the Alts, Spider, RA Thompson, etc have imprinted a goal on the Evolved who come to the Eden Cabal, I'm not sure it's fair to say they're just using them as weapons.

The ISA and other Edgerunners? Certainly and most likely respectively. The 'heroes' (did Santiago ever show up in the CyberGen books?) are trying to save the world, but they're adults and it takes a while for them to listen to kids. ;)

Also, I'm not entirely sure I'd say the ISA and their lackies won the conflict the way you're implying. I mean the EEG and later USSA seem pretty much along the lines of what the Eden cabal wanted. Granted Blackhand wouldn't be a fan of the things leading up to Ranoxis III, Santiago would probably be a Ravager, and Rache would be Rache. Plus, isn't Live Metal a line from Chippin' In? I'd say that it was less that the Carbon Plague got co-oped by those in power and more that it picked a different set of tactics. Maybe it got access to the net and encountered Alt before it reached the conclusions that lead to FoxRun and didn't start killing the old.

Liberty's Edge

thejeff wrote:

Mind you, I'd love a cyberpunk system that focused elsewhere, that had mechanics for running non-combat heists, for example, that were as detailed and interactive as the combat system is. That gave everyone something to do and allowed as many types of specialization in that as most games have in combat roles.

Well, CP2020 sorta predates that design space and assumes (which is a mistake) that the GM can handle that stuff. The GM advice book (Listen Up You Primitive Screwheads!!!!) does discuss it though, and there's basically an entire book on running a Fixer's business with lots of rule systems for it.

That said, there are way more non-combat or only peripherally combat oriented roles then combat ones. There are, if memory serves, really only three combat roles, Space Marine, Solo, and Trooper. Of two of them the Trooper is no better than anyone else without his ACPA and the Space Marine only has an advantage in Zero-G combat.

The complete list of Roles:
ADMINISTRATOR
ATTORNEY
CONFIDENCE MAN
CONVICT
COP
CORPORATE
DANCER/PROSTITUTE
GOVERNMENT OFFICIAL
FIXER
SPACE PILOT
INMATE PENAL CORPS MEMBER
SPACE MARINE
MEDIA
MEDTECHIE
MODEL
NETRUNNER
NOMAD
OCEAN CITIZEN
PRIVATE EYE
PROWLER
RUNNER/JOCKEY (Vehicles)
ROCKER
SALVER
SOLO
SPY
STREETPUNK
SCAVENGER
TECHIE
TROOPER
VAGRANT
WORKGANGER

CPv3 moved further to having strong rules support for other stuff, but due to various other issues those never got properly detailed or followed up on.


When I run Cyberpunk 2020 I toss out Roles entirely and just let people pick a primary and a secondary Special Skill.

Seriously, why the hell can't someone be a Nomad and a Rigger. Never made sense to me.

Liberty's Edge

Doomed Hero wrote:

When I run Cyberpunk 2020 I toss out Roles entirely and just let people pick a primary and a secondary Special Skill.

Seriously, why the hell can't someone be a Nomad and a Rigger. Never made sense to me.

Because you can't have two Special Abilities, so you can't have both Family and Vehicle Zen.

A Role is made up of a Special Ability and a list of ten skills, with the Special being the most important part. The book explicitly tells you that you can just pick a Special and ten skills that make sense together and with your concept. Most of the 'Roles' in the vaarious books are really just an existing role with a new skill package and probably half the Special Abilities are just a modification of an existing one's specialization, area of focus or relevant Statistic. Combat Sense/Space Combat/PA Combat for instance or Con/Vamp or Family/Brotherhood/Rank/Workgang, etc.


Oh, I'm aware of what the rules say about Special Abilities. I just don't like them so I don't use them.

I just limit how high skills can go at character generation and let my players pick whatever skills fit their concept. It has never caused a problem


Krensky did I ever send you my "End Of Cybergeneration" final game post from my PBEM? What happened after the Kids figured out that everyone but the Cabal was using them as blunt objects, and took matters into their own hands?

I think I posted it on a thread around these parts somewhere? Or mailed it to some people? Man, my memory is a sieve.

The last few posts from Doomed Hero remind me that I need to polish up my revised Interlock rules and post them to this thread. I handle multiple Specials fairly well, in them, and provide a more fluid and "you get skills based on what you're good at" skill system, which my players seem to enjoy.

Speaking of DH:

Doomed Hero wrote:

I hear that. PBEM is a particularly labor-intense format.

I actually really like the setup Paizo has here for PBP games. It takes out a lot of the legwork. As long as your players check in, they can see at a glance what has updated, and they don't have to sort through their email to find all the various replies. It is all centrally located and easily organized.

If you're interested in trying it, PM me. I'll see about getting you into one of the games I'm in so you can try the format.

I'll keep that in mind. I'm currently playing in a weekly PF game, running another bi-weekly PF game, writing a science fiction detective serial that all of you should read (if you want), and working up a campaign setting supplement for that previously mentioned bi-weekly game.

And a full work week, too. PM me a couple of the threads, and I'll check them out? I can read them, even if I decide I have no time to join. :)

Liberty's Edge

jemstone wrote:

Krensky did I ever send you my "End Of Cybergeneration" final game post from my PBEM? What happened after the Kids figured out that everyone but the Cabal was using them as blunt objects, and took matters into their own hands?

I think I posted it on a thread around these parts somewhere? Or mailed it to some people? Man, my memory is a sieve.

I know you posted what the Plague was and where it came from and how that changed my view of all sorts of apparently throw away details in the earlier CP books, but I don't think I saw the Childhood's End post you're describing.

Gah... At this rate I'm going to have to dig out my books and convince myself to not run a game. 50 - 60 hour weeks, a backlog of video games, books, serial video and no-serial video taller then I am, a Fantasy Craft version of Serpent's Skull, and a training wheels PBP game of Fantasy Craft set in Falcon's Hollow... Plus the steampunk and airships setting I keep working on and a itch that I'm going to have to resort to a VTT to solve at some point...

Thanks Jem.


Krensky wrote:

I know you posted what the Plague was and where it came from and how that changed my view of all sorts of apparently throw away details in the earlier CP books, but I don't think I saw the Childhood's End post you're describing.

Mail. You've got some.

Quote:

Gah... At this rate I'm going to have to dig out my books and convince myself to not run a game. 50 - 60 hour weeks, a backlog of video games, books, serial video and no-serial video taller then I am, a Fantasy Craft version of Serpent's Skull, and a training wheels PBP game of Fantasy Craft set in Falcon's Hollow... Plus the steampunk and airships setting I keep working on and a itch that I'm going to have to resort to a VTT to solve at some point...

Thanks Jem.

Any time! Good to know my efforts are having the desired effect. :D


jemstone wrote:
Krensky wrote:

I know you posted what the Plague was and where it came from and how that changed my view of all sorts of apparently throw away details in the earlier CP books, but I don't think I saw the Childhood's End post you're describing.

Mail. You've got some.

Uh... can I also express some interest in this? Because holy crap I'm intrigued now. Also I now want to re-read Childhood's End.


Tinkergoth wrote:
jemstone wrote:
Krensky wrote:

I know you posted what the Plague was and where it came from and how that changed my view of all sorts of apparently throw away details in the earlier CP books, but I don't think I saw the Childhood's End post you're describing.

Mail. You've got some.

Uh... can I also express some interest in this? Because holy crap I'm intrigued now. Also I now want to re-read Childhood's End.

I can send it to you, but if you haven't played the game it contains major (and I mean major) spoilers. Consider that I really did figure out the "gotcha" to the game accurately enough that the folks at RTG once asked me if anyone on their staff had leaked me information.

Granted, all the clues to figure out what really happened are sprinkled liberally through other, seemingly unrelated, Cyberpunk 2020 sourcebooks.

So if you're okay with that, then I'll send it to you. Or I could just post it here under a major spoiler tag. :)

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Tinkergoth wrote:
jemstone wrote:
Krensky wrote:

I know you posted what the Plague was and where it came from and how that changed my view of all sorts of apparently throw away details in the earlier CP books, but I don't think I saw the Childhood's End post you're describing.

Mail. You've got some.

Uh... can I also express some interest in this? Because holy crap I'm intrigued now. Also I now want to re-read Childhood's End.

By "Childhood's End" is that a reference to the Arthur C. Clarke novel?

Liberty's Edge

I was indeed referencing it because that's sorts where CyberGen was heading, and knowing Jem where that post was sort of going to go.

Plus it was a reference to the Evolved growing up and beyond the goals and help of the Eden Cabal.


Jemstone: I'm cool with spoilers. The odds of me ever actually getting to pay this game are incredibly low, and I feel a need to know what happened :P I'll pm you my email address in a little while.

LazarX: yeah, I didn't realise Krensky was actually referring to that novel, but just seeing the words made me want to dig it my copy and read it. Haven't read it since finishing school.

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