Inspired by the other thread about Words of Power, I decided to take a closer look at the mechanic. I had previously browsed through it when I got UM, but I didn't read it completely.
Sadly, I'm not very impressed with it. The versatility seems to be centered around the different energy types, only occasionally making something scary or destructive or calming to animals. The mechanics of how to use the Words seems fine, but the words themselves don't impress me.
Have I got it all wrong? Am I spot on? Is there something I'm missing? Do they work better for some classes than for others?
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seems to me that a word caster that preps spells is on similar footing with the standard version of the class. Spontaneous casters, however seem to get a lot of added versatility in terms of what shapes and effects they can create.
Haven't seen the rules in play, but that's my take from reading through
seems to me that a word caster that preps spells is on similar footing with the standard version of the class. Spontaneous casters, however seem to get a lot of added versatility in terms of what shapes and effects they can create.
Haven't seen the rules in play, but that's my take from reading through
Spontaneous casters do seem to have a leg-up, but I'm not sold on it being on par with regular casting. Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to knock WoP, I really want it to work. I'm just not sure its as strong as regular casting.
Spontaneous casters do seem to have a leg-up, but I'm not sold on it being on par with regular casting. Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to knock WoP, I really want it to work. I'm just not sure its as strong as regular casting.
It's weird. A few spells are better. Some spells are worse. Many are different for difference's sake.
I think the most interesting to play would be a druid, since a Words of Power druid at least gets a fair number of spells that don't duplicate something on the regular druid spell list.
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seems to me that a word caster that preps spells is on similar footing with the standard version of the class. Spontaneous casters, however seem to get a lot of added versatility in terms of what shapes and effects they can create.
Haven't seen the rules in play, but that's my take from reading through
WoP is how I envision a Sorceror be played. One of the most interesting things about the system is how much focus is placed on lower level Words rather than higher level ones due to the action economy. This means that Extra Words (the feat) is really powerful every time you take it and, also, if your GM is willing to allow this to convert, the human racial alternate for spontaneous casters is practically a game-breaker.
It's definitely true that there are some aspects of WoP that are disappointing. What I would say, though, is that some of the versatility of the system is really powerful, as evidenced by Ravingdork's little acid arrow combo that can do up to 40d6 damage in a level 3 slot with no save, or the "this is the only level 9 nuke worth casting" Horror Slay (untyped 20 damage/level, max 150 from Slay, no cap on Horror, so 350 at 20).
I haven't seen it in play yet (and believe me, I really wanted to run a Sage build WoP caster in our campaign, but the GM team didn't really want to learn the system), but the system genuinely looks to do exactly what it says it will do: be a more primitive version of casting. You miss out on all of the super-powerful spells (ex. There is no equivalent to Heal and the Summon Servitor spells, due to wording on the Boost, are generally weaker than Summon Monster, save for the standard action cast bit, no Black Tentacles, etc).
All in all, I really look at WoP as the place to be for blaster builds, esp. the Sorc builds that allow you to change energy types on spells, which effectively gives you a 2 for 1 deal on all of your energy damage Words. Since you still get your Bloodline spells on top of it (a clear bonus over, say, a Wizard), you can have some really sweet regular spells come in to fill in some gaps. Marid bloodline in particular is pretty awesome for it, or Djinni if you prefer elec instead of cold damage and a generally more useful movement type.
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The problem seems to be that for most things to be on par with the standard version of a comparable spell you need to boost either the effect or the target word, but boosting takes up a meta word use per day.
Not to mention that boosting "selected" for example increases all the effect words by +3... that's just insane.
Try to duplicate a normal Teleport. The first time you can teleport more than yourself is an 8th level spell. Plane Shift ends up being a 10th level one (8th for clerics).
The problem is that it wants to do the "you know 10 different words and can combine it to 40 different effects" approach, but the issue is that most words have so strict restrictions on what target words they can be used with, that there's really not much combination options.
You can theoretically summon a creature and at the same time buff it with 2 buffs, but you don't want to know how many spell levels that takes up :)
So: It would need alot more different words, and the restrictions on how to combine words should be reduced. Yes, that might create situations where you legally can combine something that doesn't make sense, but thats where the GM has to say "No", that's how more free-form types of magic work.
Can't really have a "we have a rule for everything" and "I want to be able to make my own magic" system at the same time. :(
Ok, so its looking like my suspicions were true. It does look pretty nice for low-levels, but like Allia Thren said, the restrictions can be very limiting and without boosts the spells aren't as good as their counter parts.
I don't like that much the system because it too complicated.
Said this, is useless IMHO a strict comparisonwith other spell systems.
WOP, or any alternate casting system, should be used as a separate concept for separate gameworlds.
So, the power level is not IMO a parameter for how good or bad is WOP.
I've got a couple of buddies of mine who have been playing around with the system, and to be honest, I see not much of a difference between a regular vancian caster, and a WoP caster in terms of power.
Now, I do find it cool that a mini-burning hands is a cantrip, and that's been useful often enough.
The thing is, WoP is only as good as the player trying to be creative with it. So if they're willing to really get their hands dirty and figure out cool/fun combinations, it can be a very unique system of spell casting that's very far removed from standard spells.
On the other hand, if they're just looking for a power trip, sticking with regular spells is probably for the best.
I think they are a waste of time.
But what bugs me more than its general suckatude is the concept. Regular spells have verbal components, which are magical words. We also have Power Words which are, presumably, verbal components on crack or something. Who knows? And then we have wordspells which are magic words...to make spells with. In other words, they are verbal components. It needs to be re-flavored to not mean something we already have meanings for. Something preferably not dumb.
What I've been looking at is the experimental spellcaster feat. You get to cast regular spells, and then choose the few words that are interesting or useful.
Of course, then the question is which words are worth spending a feat on...
What I've been looking at is the experimental spellcaster feat. You get to cast regular spells, and then choose the few words that are interesting or useful.
Of course, then the question is which words are worth spending a feat on...
Lengthy and Corrosive Bolt.
Hmm, I'm seeing a bit more support for WoP. How many of you have actually used WoP/seen it used in game? Things that look kinda meh on paper sometimes are good when actually used.
Hmm, I'm seeing a bit more support for WoP. How many of you have actually used WoP/seen it used in game? Things that look kinda meh on paper sometimes are good when actually used.
I'm trying it out with an oracle in a play-by-post game, but we just started.
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Hmm, I'm seeing a bit more support for WoP. How many of you have actually used WoP/seen it used in game? Things that look kinda meh on paper sometimes are good when actually used.
People who bash WoP tend to focus only on the selectively bad things: you don't get some of the powerful standard spells (Black Tentacles, etc.), nor do you get the same amount of raw power per cast typically.
What you do get is action economy from stringing together lower level Words, along with the amazing bonus of being able to pseudo-Heighten any spell without the feat, simply by giving yourself that same action economy. Think about that. You get a metamagic feat built in to your action economy. For free.
It's a lot harder, at this time, to optimize a WoP caster. Honestly, I'm ok with that. It'll take people a while to sift through the combinations to find what's going to be best for them.
Hmm, I'm seeing a bit more support for WoP. How many of you have actually used WoP/seen it used in game? Things that look kinda meh on paper sometimes are good when actually used.People who bash WoP tend to focus only on the selectively bad things: you don't get some of the powerful standard spells (Black Tentacles, etc.), nor do you get the same amount of raw power per cast typically.
What you do get is action economy from stringing together lower level Words, along with the amazing bonus of being able to pseudo-Heighten any spell without the feat, simply by giving yourself that same action economy. Think about that. You get a metamagic feat built in to your action economy. For free.
It's a lot harder, at this time, to optimize a WoP caster. Honestly, I'm ok with that. It'll take people a while to sift through the combinations to find what's going to be best for them.
Alright, you've convinced me. Next sorcerer/oracle I make will be a word caster. I'm willing to sacrifice a bit of power for versatility and trying new things. Probably only gonna use it in a module or something, but we'll see!