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Nobody expects a guide to the inquisitor


Advice

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Dark Archive

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Link, Work in progress

There's already Cryptic's Guide to the Inquisitor but that one's for the playtest inquisitor and takes neither APG nor UM into account. So I guess it won't hurt to get a new one started. I'll use the usual CharOp color coding.
Feel free to comment (although there isn't exactly much to comment on at the moment) and suggest.


I'd personally rate the Half-orc higher, as the favored class bonus is extremely solid, and allows you to get to an excessively high Intimidate and ability to identify monsters (stacking as it does with Stern Gaze and the racial Intimidate bonus). Orc Ferocity also works great for a divine class with access to spells to allow them to heal themselves. The free falchion proficiency, variable stat bonus, and darkvision is just icing on the cake.

Dark Archive

SunsetPsychosis wrote:
I'd personally rate the Half-orc higher, as the favored class bonus is extremely solid, and allows you to get to an excessively high Intimidate and ability to identify monsters (stacking as it does with Stern Gaze and the racial Intimidate bonus). Orc Ferocity also works great for a divine class with access to spells to allow them to heal themselves. The free falchion proficiency, variable stat bonus, and darkvision is just icing on the cake.

I was just going to do that. Both the half-orc and human favored class bonuses are excellent. With the Improved Monster Lore feat, a half-orc inquisitor is even better in identifying monsters than a bard.


I actually jumped when I saw the text start typing as I was reading

Dark Archive

The evaluation of class abilities is done for now, although spells, domains, judgments and teamwork feats will be further discussed.

Dark Archive

id rank monster lore a little higher, since it helps you determine what creature type the enemy you're trying to bane is (without as much metagaming at least)


1 person marked this as a favorite.

I'm a fan of Inquisitors making the most out of Intimidate, which means Cornugon Smash, Dazzling Display, and/or Intimidating Prowess. They can also work quite well with the Enforcer feat, letting you punch people to scare them and possibly take them prisoner (synergizes well with a Merciful weapon, if you're the 'take em alive' sort.)

Just an angle to keep in mind for build suggestions and the like, especially for half-orcs who use the favored class bonus.

Dark Archive

Name Violation wrote:
id rank monster lore a little higher, since it helps you determine what creature type the enemy you're trying to bane is (without as much metagaming at least)

It's a nice ability, but the bonus isn't that high. That's why I classified it as 'good, but not great'.

Dark Archive

SunsetPsychosis wrote:

I'm a fan of Inquisitors making the most out of Intimidate, which means Cornugon Smash, Dazzling Display, and/or Intimidating Prowess. They can also work quite well with the Enforcer feat, letting you punch people to scare them and possibly take them prisoner (synergizes well with a Merciful weapon, if you're the 'take em alive' sort.)

Just an angle to keep in mind for build suggestions and the like, especially for half-orcs who use the favored class bonus.

Yes, inquisitors are excellent bullies. The torture and the heresy inquisitions are also good to increase Intimidate. An inquisitor with the rage domain can take the Intimidating Glare Rage Power to intimidate an opponent as a move action.


Jadeite wrote:

Link, Work in progress

There's already Cryptic's Guide to the Inquisitor but that one's for the playtest inquisitor and takes neither APG nor UM into account. So I guess it won't hurt to get a new one started. I'll use the usual CharOp color coding.
Feel free to comment (although there isn't exactly much to comment on at the moment) and suggest.

Thanks for the work, Jadeite. I am not an optimizer, but I do like to know what the class strengths and weaknesses are when I begin playing a new class. I am certain I will find this very useful.

Thanks,
Greg


This is my PbP Inquisitor. Been pretty fun and effective thus far. My favorite part is that it's the party face with a whole 5 Charisma.

Ya!

But anyway. Seeing that you're on Teamwork Feats right now. Outflank can be pretty loverly, especially as a 3/4 B.A.B. class. Duck and Cover is also particularly handy, as it allows you to use someone else's bonuses in place of your worst saving throw. Between Duck and Cover and Outflank, Inquisitors buddy up pretty well with melee rogues.

Edit: Confused Duck and Cover with Lookout. My bad. Though Lookout is nice, too. And makes you even better friends with certain rogues.


Paired Opportunists is another favorite of mine, especially if you go with a reach weapon, standing behind the Big Dumb Fighter.

Outflank also has nice synergy when working with any other combat sorts who focuses a lot on crits (falchion fighter, TWF rogue with kukris, etc), as it can mean an extra attack pretty often. Especially if you can convince them to use Butterfly Sting, while you get to wield an x3 crit weapon like a Greataxe for your free AoO on their crit (another place where being a half-orc is great.)


Yeah, thing is with the teamwork feats, even with solo tactics, you've gotta have a synergistic party setup. For home games, this is easy, and can be *really* good. For PFS, even having Teamwork feats is a gamble. Which is why I really like UM's Preacher Archetype.

Though, the fact that it's a standard action to swap out your latest teamwork feat is really nifty.


Even in PFS, you can't go wrong with Outflank and Precise Strike. You're going to ideally find yourself in a flanking position quite often (especially if you're working with a melee rogue), so it will definitely help the hit issues you're likely to have as a 3/4 BAB class, especially when you factor in Power Attack.


With the "permanent" teamwork feat choices, how would you rank the order of taking them?

Greg


Once you get to it, you will probably want to make a point of mentioning that about the Teamwork Feat ability. Even though many of the feats are circumstantial at best, it's a mere standard action to swap out your most recently acquired teamwork feat, which makes certain ones better. Leave the colors as is, makes it easier to determine which ones you want to have as permanent (probably Outflank, then Precise Strike, then your next favorite), but it's worth specifically calling out that part of it.

Edit: Hah! Didn't notice, but you already did mention it. Go you.

And to Greg: Probably Outflank, then Precise Strike if you ask me. After that, it becomes a toss-up, dependent on the party, and which one you'd be able to get most use from.

Dark Archive

Greg Wasson wrote:

With the "permanent" teamwork feat choices, how would you rank the order of taking them?

Greg

Precise Strike and Outflank would be my choices for level 3 and 6. Lookout would probably be my next choice. Paired Opportunist might be useful, too, depending on your party composition.

Outflank, Paired Opportunist and Gang-up are devastating, but for that synergy to work the other characters need those feats, too.

Dark Archive

Judgments are done, too. Next are probably domains, but those might take a while, considering subdomains and inquisitions.


Note that at higher levels, the Fast Healing judgement can take the edge off using a Vicious weapon, if you were so inclined. Could be a decent damage increase if you're a bit of a masochist.

Also, some of the domain granted powers are decent enough candidates for a Conductive weapon.

Dark Archive

SunsetPsychosis wrote:

Note that at higher levels, the Fast Healing judgement can take the edge off using a Vicious weapon, if you were so inclined. Could be a decent damage increase if you're a bit of a masochist.

Also, some of the domain granted powers are decent enough candidates for a Conductive weapon.

Even at 20th level, Healing would only grant Fast Healing 7. With Slayer and Judgment Surge, you could gain Fast Healing 10. Unless you don't expect to hit, that won't be enough to heal all the damage you take from vicious on average. And by that time, Destruction would deal more extra damage than vicious if you consider critical hits.

A conductive weapon isn't a bad idea, even though it halves the uses per day. I'll include it when it comes to equipment.


The extra combat feat granted by the War domain can be used to grab a Teamwork feat to game Solo Tactics a bit more, as most of the good ones are classified as combat feats. I'm sure the options will expand even more once Ultimate Combat comes out, as I hope they introduce a bunch more Teamwork feats.


Jadeite wrote:

Link, Work in progress

There's already Cryptic's Guide to the Inquisitor but that one's for the playtest inquisitor and takes neither APG nor UM into account. So I guess it won't hurt to get a new one started. I'll use the usual CharOp color coding.
Feel free to comment (although there isn't exactly much to comment on at the moment) and suggest.

Absolutely great so far. Good job.


I have never played an inquisitor, played with an inquisitor, or even read the class at more than a quick skim. So I acknowledge that I have almost nothing of substance to contribute to this thread, and for that I apologize.

However, I felt that it was unfortunate that no had given jadeite credit for the fact that this thread's subject=BRILLIANT!

Good day.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Jadeite wrote:

Link, Work in progress

There's already Cryptic's Guide to the Inquisitor but that one's for the playtest inquisitor and takes neither APG nor UM into account.

Wouldn't it have to take APG into account since that is where this beastie comes from?

Dark Archive

LazarX wrote:
Jadeite wrote:

Link, Work in progress

There's already Cryptic's Guide to the Inquisitor but that one's for the playtest inquisitor and takes neither APG nor UM into account.

Wouldn't it have to take APG into account since that is where this beastie comes from?

As far as I can tell, it's based on the Beta, so no APG spells and options.


There are three things that must be discussed about the Inquisitor: Weapons, spells, judgements and the element of suprise. Damm, four things must be discussed about Inquisitors: Weapons, Spells, Judgements, the element of suprise and special abilities... damm....

I think that with respect to domains at some point a linkage to Diety favoured weaponcould be made, ie Ragathiel (nobility and Bastard swords] or 2 others named???? ( Luck and Scythes) thus creating a meta of domains and favoured weapons, especially for Humans, Half-elves and Dwarves.


Persistence inquisition grants Step-up as a bonus feat, and for meleers who want to keep pressure on, Step-up is pretty good.

Dark Archive

Nordlander wrote:

There are three things that must be discussed about the Inquisitor: Weapons, spells, judgements and the element of suprise. Damm, four things must be discussed about Inquisitors: Weapons, Spells, Judgements, the element of suprise and special abilities... damm....

I think that with respect to domains at some point a linkage to Diety favoured weaponcould be made, ie Ragathiel (nobility and Bastard swords] or 2 others named???? ( Luck and Scythes) thus creating a meta of domains and favoured weapons, especially for Humans, Half-elves and Dwarves.

I guess I will also discuss deities. There are, however, lots of them, so that might take some time. It's a bit simpler than it is for clerics, though, since I don't have to take domain combinations into account, too.

Next I'll probably take a look at the roles the inquisitor could fill since I mentioned it several times in the domains section.
I hope the guide isn't to awkward since English isn't my first language.

If anyone disagrees with my suggestions or spots an error, feel free to post it here. Most of my evaluations are based on theorycrafting (although there is an inquisitor in my current kingmaker group), so actual experience would be useful, too.

Dark Archive

Irulesmost wrote:
Persistence inquisition grants Step-up as a bonus feat, and for meleers who want to keep pressure on, Step-up is pretty good.

Somehow I missed that, thanks. Step up uses an immediate action, though, which is a bit of a problem.


No problem. And yeah, the immediate action is kinda important for a class who likes swift actions so much.

FAQ wrote:


Terrible Remorse: If I make my saving throw against terrible remorse (page 243), do I become paralyzed for the duration of the spell?
No. The spell is a bit unclear here. When you are targeted by terrible remorse you do not make a saving throw until your turn. On your turn, you must make a Will saving throw. If you make the saving throw, you are frozen with sorrow and can take no actions, but this causes the spell to end. If you fail the saving throw, you deal damage to yourself, but can otherwise act normally.

Update: Page 243, in the description of the terrible remorse spell, change the final sentence to read as follows.

If the creature saves, it is instead frozen with sorrow for 1 round, during which time it can take no actions and takes a -2 penalty to Armor Class, after which the spell ends.

—Jason Bulmahn, Wednesday

Just so you know, Terrible Remorse probably isn't blue anymore.

Edit: It's still pretty good, in some ways.

Dark Archive

Irulesmost wrote:


Just so you know, Terrible Remorse probably isn't blue anymore.

Edit: It's still pretty good, in some ways.

It's still a third level spell that either shuts a target down for one round or causes 1d8+STR damage per round.

Considering the number of spells per day and spells known an inquisitor has, it might be better for other classes, though, so I'm 'degrading' it to green.


Right. It's a pretty great boss-killer, but I find Magic Circle vs. Evil (for example) is probably better for a majority of encounters...

Dark Archive

I am surprised you did not rate Darkness Domain higher, free blind fight feat and the ability to blind your opponets is pretty nice. I try to stay at range with my inquisitor so if someone gets close being able to touch of darkness on them and move away is nice.

Dark Archive

Nimon wrote:
I am surprised you did not rate Darkness Domain higher, free blind fight feat and the ability to blind your opponets is pretty nice. I try to stay at range with my inquisitor so if someone gets close being able to touch of darkness on them and move away is nice.

The night domain also grants Blind-Sight.

Dark Archive

Concerning the animal domain and boon companion:

Sean K Reynolds wrote:
Bard-Sader wrote:


Benefit: The abilities of your animal companion or familiar are calculated as though your class were four levels higher, to a maximum effective druid level of equal to your character level. If you have more than one animal companion or familiar, choose one to receive this benefit.

This would make it clearer. And yes, you can take the feat if you're a single-classed ranger. It's actually pretty sweet deal.

Currently we don't have a place to post FAQ/update material for books other than the Pathfinder RPG hardcovers, so I can't attach this to a permanent FAQ, but consider this an official ruling on this question.

Source

I'll leave the animal domain green, though, since the feather domain is even better.
I consider most domains useful. Feel free to take any orange domain if it suits your character. Action economy is an issue for the inquisitor, so I prefer domains that grant you abilities that don't take a standard or swift action to activate.
That's why I rated feather, rage and travel that high. There are, however, some other domains, that are also better than other domains due to versatility, like the luck or madness domain.
That left most of the domains in the orange domain. They aren't bad, they just aren't as awesome as others.


Right. Just noticed I hadn't said this yet, but I sure was thinking it loudly. Good work on the guide. It's pretty impressive how fast you've been going through it.


I notice a lack of blue spells at some levels. This indicates you're not judging eg. first level spells against other first level spells. Other Treantmonk style guides tend to have more even color distributions. Even if inquisitor spells are just uninspiring for the most part shouldn't they be compared to other inquisitor spells of the same level, and if the pattern of having so few blue or green spells continues at the levels you haven't finished writing up yet does the spells ability really deserve to be green?

Dark Archive

Atarlost wrote:
I notice a lack of blue spells at some levels. This indicates you're not judging eg. first level spells against other first level spells. Other Treantmonk style guides tend to have more even color distributions. Even if inquisitor spells are just uninspiring for the most part shouldn't they be compared to other inquisitor spells of the same level, and if the pattern of having so few blue or green spells continues at the levels you haven't finished writing up yet does the spells ability really deserve to be green?
Quote:
TWO STARS ** This option is good, but not great

The lack of blues and greens mostly means that there are many spells worth taking but few that are must haves.

As long as there are lots of spells that are at least orange, the spells ability is quite useful.


I notice you're marking a LOT of spells as orange with the only explanation being "Will save negates". Kinda wondering why, some of those are perfectly good spells (like Hold Person).

Dark Archive

OmegaZ wrote:
I notice you're marking a LOT of spells as orange with the only explanation being "Will save negates". Kinda wondering why, some of those are perfectly good spells (like Hold Person).

Without using 3.5 stuff, an inquisitor is probably not going to have an enormous wisdom score, so his Save DC will not be that high. Because of that, I prefer spells that allow no saving throw. Spell Resistance is less of a problem since the inquisitor has a full caster level and also additional options to increase it against SR.

Also, most creatures are immune to Hold Person. Terrible Remorse is much better.


Just cuz I am curious, and also because I would hate for you to sleep too much, are you intending to color code archtypes and give values on popular build types? id: Intimidating melee or Ranged or whateber?

Greg

Grand Lodge

Greg Wasson wrote:

Just cuz I am curious, and also because I would hate for you to sleep too much, are you intending to color code archtypes and give values on popular build types? id: Intimidating melee or Ranged or whateber?

Greg

Why is Wis a dump stat for your suggested builds? You lose ALL spell casting ability without having Wis 11+


Jadeite wrote:

Link, Work in progress

There's already Cryptic's Guide to the Inquisitor but that one's for the playtest inquisitor and takes neither APG nor UM into account. So I guess it won't hurt to get a new one started. I'll use the usual CharOp color coding.
Feel free to comment (although there isn't exactly much to comment on at the moment) and suggest.

If we're looking at combat optimization only, I agree with your placement of Conversion Inquisition. If we're looking at possible non-combat role optimization, Conversion Inquisition is definitely green, and blue if paired with the Infiltrator archetype. There is no better FoP in the game than a well built Inquisitor and, if I do say so myself, there's more role-playing opportunity for that character than any Cleric.


Might be worthwhile to checkout Menacing weapon. +2 to hit when flanking, and with Outflank, which is probably your 6th level Teamwork feat, you'll be getting +6 to hit, plus whatever bonuses you have. That alone will put you above a full BAB class.

Dark Archive

Greg Wasson wrote:

Just cuz I am curious, and also because I would hate for you to sleep too much, are you intending to color code archtypes and give values on popular build types? id: Intimidating melee or Ranged or whateber?

Greg

I'll certainly do that, as well as taking a look at multiclassing. Maybe I reevaluate some spells or domains when I'm done with it.


Jadeite wrote:
Greg Wasson wrote:

Just cuz I am curious, and also because I would hate for you to sleep too much, are you intending to color code archtypes and give values on popular build types? id: Intimidating melee or Ranged or whateber?

Greg

I'll certainly do that, as well as taking a look at multiclassing. Maybe I reevaluate some spells or domains when I'm done with it.

Thanks! I really appreciate the work you are putting into this. Actually, watching the text scroll across is bringing home to me how much work this really is.

Anyway, enough chat here...get back to the guide!!!!! GO NOW!!!

:P

Greg

Dark Archive

Spells are done. I'd say there are plenty of spells worth taking.

RPG Superstar 2010 Top 32

Thank you for the guide, Jadeite. Well done and helpful.


Thank you for your guide.


Any plans for including Words of Power?

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