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Not at all. Originally it was much shorter. I made it longer because I wanted to be as clear as I possible so that I could avoid the undue criticism of people who misread it (the final version will be edited to be clear and as short as possible). The feat does need to be more thorough. It needs to handle more than one circumstance. There needs to be enough flexibility for this to be usable on any sort of character without automatically destroying the games verisimilitude. Intricate abilities, like taunting, DO require longer instruction manuals to prevent stupidity like Antagonizing little girls into melee.
For goodness sake! Does that really have to be THIS long :D
For brevity I'd actually prefer if the feat just forbade the attack on another target (or penalized it heavily, like immediately becomming staggered and concentration to cast if the psell didn't target the antagonizing character/monster).
Yes, a level one caster can do "whatever the hell they want". Like fly to the moon, make gold from green cheese, and date supermodels.here is the biggest flaw i see with pathfinder.
the double standard between caster and noncaster.
casters are allowed to bend physics every day to accomodate whatever the hell they want. and they can do this from level 1 onward.
that was intentionally hyperbole on my part. but wizards can do a lot of stuff to enslave reality. sometimes you have to exxaggerate to get a point across
noncasters are forever bound to the laws of physics even past level 20 until they take thier first level in a casting class.Forever bound to the rules of physics, huh? Which rule of physics lets you sheath your hands in flames to do additional damage, fire 6 arrows in 6 seconds, or turn someone to stone with your foot?
you caught me on a few physics denying scenarios. one of these can be simply described as superhuman reflexes, and the other 2 are such restricted options that they are almost exclusively monk territory. and i don't think the monk is a non caster. i see it as a partial pseudocaster with an odd mechanic. the same can be said about the ninja in the upcoming ultimate combat supplement
because of the harsh restrictions on non spellcasting classes. Miyomoto Masashi, Beowulf, Hercules, Sun Tzu, Rasputin, or even Blackbeard could never exist inside the system.Wait, what? Three real life people (you know, bound by the laws of physics for sure) can't be modeled by the rules because non-casters are bound by the rules of physics?? I'm calling BS on this one.
Sorry, you don't like a system where everyone can play fast and loose with reality, but your assertations are beyond absurd. Or are you trolling again?
3 of those examples are from real life, but each of those 6 examples can easily be seen as superhuman in quite a few respects. including the real life ones.
if wizards can enslave reality, than noncasters should be capable of superhuman feats of prowess in thier given field as well.
the reason i picked those examples is because they were superhuman, some of them were real life examples, but that is a mistake that further helps me express my point.
if the wizards can bend reality, than the non casting PCs better be superhuman to compensate.
Can you please mark in which territory were these people superhuman aside from Hercules, who definitely wasn't human, but rather a demigod?
Can you please mark in which territory were these people superhuman aside from Hercules, who definitely wasn't human, but rather a demigod?
Beowulf had a series of myths written about him.
the most superhuman thing i remember him doing was swimming for 6 days straight in heavy armor and singlehandedly slaying 9 sea serpents on the 5th night of this swim. he appearantly wasn't that badly phased. the rest involved combat against various monsters that could literally pound most humans into a red mist.
Blackbeard and Rasputin were both so hard to kill, that they were superhuman in how hard they were to kill. i may not remember blackbeards case. but if i got my history right, i believe Rasputin survived enough poison to kill 2 dozen men, survived several shots that would normally be fatal to most humans and was drowned for something like a half hour before he died.
Sun Tzu was such a skilled tactician, that he could theoretically take a small gang of peasant street rabble, train them, equip them, send them against an empire and guarantee a systematic victory from his sheer tactical skill.
Miyomoto Masashi Wrote the book of 5 rings. but he was one of the candidates for worlds deadliest warrior. he achieved countless successes in combat. the most infamous is when he sliced a man in half with a boken he carved from a wooden boat oar. he would be the real life equivalent to the pathfinder god, Irori. who developed such great prowess in his field that he literally evolved into something greater. he was capable of many feats that most normal humans wouldn't see themselves performing.
before hercules was a demigod, he was a godling whom hades had stripped of his godhood and he became another human in the process. he worked to regain his godhood.
if the wizards can bend reality, than the non casting PCs better be superhuman to compensate.
I agree. After a certain point being a bad-ass normal becomes obsolete. Batman doesn't fight Darkseid he outsmarts him. But players want to actually swing swords at high levels and that requires Charles Atlas Superpowers.
I'm all for high level fighters jumping 300 feat in the air, learning to wield impossible weapons like dental floss or oversized shurikens, or just having god like strength. Fighters need nice things. But, Antagonize is not a nice thing.
@pharoalin
i believe antagonize is a step in the right direction, but you are right. it may have possibly been too big of a leap.
for the moment, i shall back out of this debate and instead research new avenues to fix the disparity.
i plan on eventually creating feats that allow noncasters to perform some of the deeds from mythology and anime.
@pharoalin
for the moment, i shall back out of this debate and instead research new avenues to fix the disparity.i plan on eventually creating feats that allow noncasters to perform some of the deeds from mythology and anime.
Sounds good. I hope that works out. Seriously, I would love to see some anime type craziness in the game.
@pharoalin
Sounds good. I hope that works out. Seriously, I would love to see some anime type craziness in the game.
for the moment, i shall back out of this debate and instead research new avenues to fix the disparity.i plan on eventually creating feats that allow noncasters to perform some of the deeds from mythology and anime.
Anime stuff is great. I just don't see it in pathfinder, but to each his own.
here is the biggest flaw i see with pathfinder.
the double standard between caster and noncaster.
casters are allowed to bend physics every day to accomodate whatever the hell they want. and they can do this from level 1 onward.
noncasters are forever bound to the laws of physics even past level 20 until they take thier first level in a casting class.
because of the harsh restrictions on non spellcasting classes. Miyomoto Masashi, Beowulf, Hercules, Sun Tzu, Rasputin, or even Blackbeard could never exist inside the system.
There are only two potential "solutions" if you regard this as a problem: elevate the martials to near-magic or diminish the casters. Neither of those will make the players who favor either side happy.
The source of the caster-martial disparity is that some people want to play non-magical characters. This is tantamount to choosing adversity. The entire context of the game does a pretty good job of putting the martial classes within whacking distance of the casters, but you are correct about the gap. The gap is there because people want it.
Can you please mark in which territory were these people superhuman aside from Hercules, who definitely wasn't human, but rather a demigod?Beowulf had a series of myths written about him.
the most superhuman thing i remember him doing was swimming for 6 days straight in heavy armor and singlehandedly slaying 9 sea serpents on the 5th night of this swim. he appearantly wasn't that badly phased. the rest involved combat against various monsters that could literally pound most humans into a red mist.
I haven't heard this particular part, but from what I heard about him he wrestled two giants (which one could be an half-ogre and another an ogre with DR/magic thrown in). And got badly mauled by a dragon. I can't find rules for fatigue and endurance, but I think a mid-level fighter with epic stats and a few endurance and wrestling feats could do that.
Blackbeard and Rasputin were both so hard to kill, that they were superhuman in how hard they were to kill. i may not remember blackbeards case. but if i got my history right, i believe Rasputin survived enough poison to kill 2 dozen men, survived several shots that would normally be fatal to most humans and was drowned for something like a half hour before he died.
Blackbeard was shot several times and his arm got cut-of. Again a mid level fighter could endure that before falling and Blackbeard was definitely something like that. It's not uncommon that a man doesn't fall after being shot. Rasputin had quite some stamina, if we are to believe how liked he was among russian ladies of the time and what he was used to drink. That had a lot to do with the poison. Cyanide is less active with sugar, higher pH in drunkard's stomach also blocks the poison. We also need to take into account that the killers were probably encouraged by alcohol, so the shots to the chest could nearly miss important things. Then in shock probably he was thrown in water, which woke him up partially and probably stopped blood loss (Was it that his genitals were cut-off, or it was after death?), because it was really cold (the murder took place on 30th of December in Russia... cold, cold, cold) and probably further delayed the poison by slowing the metabolism. Mid level warrior/expert with good constitution could go through this probably.
Sun Tzu was such a skilled tactician, that he could theoretically take a small gang of peasant street rabble, train them, equip them, send them against an empire and guarantee a systematic victory from his sheer tactical skill.
Provided with what I've read about corruption and discipline in chinese imperial armies in certain periods there's no wonder.
Miyomoto Masashi Wrote the book of 5 rings. but he was one of the candidates for worlds deadliest warrior. he achieved countless successes in combat. the most infamous is when he sliced a man in half with a boken he carved from a wooden boat oar. he would be the real life equivalent to the pathfinder god, Irori. who developed such great prowess in his field that he literally evolved into something greater. he was capable of many feats that most normal humans wouldn't see themselves performing.
I heard that he just cracked his skull with the boken, which is totally doable. Plus he made that boken to gain an advantage against an opponent who he thought to be faster and more dangerous. The boken was the only solution to having a weapon that wasn't too heavy and yet had greater reach than opponent's no-dachi. Musashi also concealed the weapon's length by keeping the tim submerged underwater if the description of the duel is accurate. Defeating several lower level fighters and wariors is also a stuff that doesn't get mid to high level fighters too excited.
before hercules was a demigod, he was a godling whom hades had stripped of his godhood and he became another human in the process. he worked to regain his godhood.
I don't remember Hercules loosing his strength, which was nigh unmatched from the start, but I'm not too familiar with his stories.
Anime stuff is great. I just don't see it in pathfinder, but to each his own.@pharoalin
Sounds good. I hope that works out. Seriously, I would love to see some anime type craziness in the game.
for the moment, i shall back out of this debate and instead research new avenues to fix the disparity.i plan on eventually creating feats that allow noncasters to perform some of the deeds from mythology and anime.
Which Anime, again? Record of Lodoss War is Basic D&D more or less. And the crazy magical stuff of 3x3 eyes (see my avatar name) is a de facto epic 3.5 campaign.
"I don't like anime" or "this is too anime" has the same value of "I don't like books". You cannot say that. You can say that you don't like "The Great Gatsby" but you like "Brave New World".
Which Anime, again?
"I don't like anime" or "this is too anime" has the same value of "I don't like books". You cannot say that.
I've found that if someone doesn't like animé in general, there's a good chance that they think of it as a genre unto itself rather than simply a medium (just as books, film, video games, etc. are each a type of media). It seems to be a fairly common oversight.
So if someone doesn't really watch animé and has only see stuff like Bleach or Berserk, I can see how they might think all of it is over-the-top with giant swords, etc.
With that said, I once statted out a zanpakuto along with Shikai/Bankai for one of my players, though I'm not about to assume that every group would care for that sort of thing in their game. As a case-in-point I'll cite the old Book of Nine Swords supplement from 3.5. ;)
My college history professor, who specialiazed in Russian history, told me how Rasputin died.
He was invited to a home for dinner, where they fed him an appetizer of cookies (laced with arsenic). He ate them all and asked for more. They made him more cookies (because they never actually cooked a meal to serve anyway) and laced it with enough arsenic to kill a horse. He ate all of them. When no dinner was forthcoming, they feared he'd get suspicious, so they said, "Hey Rasputin, come see what we got in the basement". It was a .50 pistol, which they whot him with. The cops came to see what the gunshot was all about, and the conspirators said "Just putting an old dog down." As they were dealing with the cops, the old bastard was walking up the stairs, so they shot/shoved him back down the stairs. (The cops knew full well what was going on, so it might have been more gunshots, I can't recall). They rolled his "body" up in a rug and threw him onto a sled and took him out on the ice of the frozen river. While chopping a hole in the ice, he was starting to work his way out of the rug and get up again, so the whacked him in the skull with the axe and dumped the body in the icy river.
Three days later, the river thawed enough to flow again, and Rasputin's body was recovered and an autopsy was performed. Cause of death? Drowning.
All this while constrained by the laws of physics.
(BTW, Rasputin was a priest, so he might have been a spellcaster, and thus unfettered by the chains of reality.)
My college history professor, who specialiazed in Russian history, told me how Rasputin died.
He was invited to a home for dinner, where they fed him an appetizer of cookies (laced with arsenic). He ate them all and asked for more. They made him more cookies (because they never actually cooked a meal to serve anyway) and laced it with enough arsenic to kill a horse. He ate all of them. When no dinner was forthcoming, they feared he'd get suspicious, so they said, "Hey Rasputin, come see what we got in the basement". It was a .50 pistol, which they whot him with. The cops came to see what the gunshot was all about, and the conspirators said "Just putting an old dog down." As they were dealing with the cops, the old bastard was walking up the stairs, so they shot/shoved him back down the stairs. (The cops knew full well what was going on, so it might have been more gunshots, I can't recall). They rolled his "body" up in a rug and threw him onto a sled and took him out on the ice of the frozen river. While chopping a hole in the ice, he was starting to work his way out of the rug and get up again, so the whacked him in the skull with the axe and dumped the body in the icy river.
Three days later, the river thawed enough to flow again, and Rasputin's body was recovered and an autopsy was performed. Cause of death? Drowning.
All this while constrained by the laws of physics.
(BTW, Rasputin was a priest, so he might have been a spellcaster, and thus unfettered by the chains of reality.)
Well, mostly the sources, including the Wikipedia I've seeen so far cite cyanide (rather ineptly used) and also a rather blurred evidence (red revolution was a rather chaotic period and the will to examine something was probably quite low. At that time it was a time to burn history and create a new, more suitable one and anything remotedly looking connected to religion was primarily seen as kindling wood, especially before WWII).
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BIFTech Engineers can now guarantee the reporting of events from the so-called-past, referred to as 'HISTORY' by some less-aligned good citizens, may be/may not be a highly subjective experience resulting in seeming 'conflicts' of perception when those involved and/or relying on the process state that this is/was, no backsies.
Maybe/Maybe not.
Police reports and conflicting witness statements - TODAY!
So, what *did* just happen?
Well, mostly the sources, including the Wikipedia I've seeen so far cite cyanide (rather ineptly used) and also a rather blurred evidence (red revolution was a rather chaotic period and the will to examine something was probably quite low. At that time it was a time to burn history and create a new, more suitable one and anything remotedly looking connected to religion was primarily seen as kindling wood, especially before WWII).
I'll trust a college professor specializing in Russion history a lot more than some annonymous keyboard warrior any day, especially one posting on a website that has next to no editorial control where the articles can be altered by almost anyone.
And Rasputin wasn't put down because he was a priest and the red revolution hated religion, he was put down because of his hypnotic, mind-control-like influence over the Tsarina and her family.
I'll trust a college professor specializing in Russion history a lot more than some annonymous keyboard warrior any day, especially one posting on a website that has next to no editorial control where the articles can be altered by almost anyone.
To be fair, you're trusting your recollection of your interpretation and understanding of a professor's memory on the topic. You're trusting that over a web site where such anonymous persons as said professor are permitted to put forth their citations and references.
I'm just pointing out two things; human memory and experience is... fickle, and also that a wiki isn't inherently less trustworthy.
As I said, it wasn't just Wikipedia.
I'm not saying that Rasputin was put down by the reds. I'm saying that they didn't have as much reason to ivestigate in detail as to destroy the evidence, or make their own to make the tzar and his family look worse. Communists in their anti-religious compaigns also were more inclined toward destroying anything that could look remotedly miraculous as such thing was unsuited to their ends. I guess that Rasputin had already quite some legend around him at the time and the government at the time was quite probably interested in getting rid of such things. Of course this all comes provided that such things survived the civil war in the first place.
Reasons for his death are still blurred a bit incuding conspirations for various reasons, but we can be reasonably sure that it was for his connections with ruling family.
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I have never seen any anime that I enjoyed in any way. I have stopped watching anime as a result, and drawn the general conclusion "I don't like anime".
If that's wrong, I don't wanna be right.
But, this is soooooo not a thread about anime.
When you say anime what do you mean? Anime is just the japanese term for animation. So you don't like disney movies? How about Garfield or Looney Tunes? Simpsons? Japanese anime is as varied if not moreso than western animation. I've seen a LOT of anime, and I've probably liked about 5-10% of it. You should check out Castle in the Sky, a Miyazaki film. Distributed by Disney. It's at least as good as anything Disney has made in the last 25 years or so.
Has there been an update / official comment to Anatagonize?
I'd go with this version:
Antagonize
Whether with biting remarks or hurtful words, you are adept at making creatures angry with you.
Benefit: You can make Diplomacy and Intimidate checks to make creatures respond to you with hostility. No matter which skill you use, antagonizing a creature takes a standard action that does not provoke attacks of opportunity. You must succeed at a Diplomacy or Intimidate skill check vs. your target's Sense Motive check. You and your target must be able to see and hear each other, and you must be within 30ft. of each other. You cannot make this check against a creature that does not understand you or has an Intelligence score of 3 or lower. The feat has no mechanical effect in non-combat situations. However, there might be social effects that are up to the DM to decide.
The benefits you gain for this check depend on the skill you use. This is a mind-affecting effect.
Diplomacy: You fluster your enemy. For the next minute, the target takes a –2 penalty on all attacks rolls made against creatures other than you and has a 10% spell failure chance on all spells that do not target you or that have you within their area of effect.
Intimidate: The targeted creature flies into a rage. On its next turn, the target must attack you. The creature can decide in which way to attack you, and it does not have to use it's most effective attack on you. It can include other targets in it's attack, but it cannot target others without targetting also you. If it cannot attack you from afar, it must move towards you. If the creature is unable to reach you, or if it's movement would be harmful for it, it can decide not to move towards you. The effect ends after the creature has attacked you once or after it's turn, whichever comes first. Once you have targeted a creature with this ability, you cannot target it again for 1 day.