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Creating Traps


Pathfinder Society® General Discussion

Osirion

Hi all,

As I look through the organized play guide I see nothing to prevent a player from creating traps. I was wondering if this was an oversight or if it is allowed.

Thanks in advance

Osirion

Wow, no one wants to touch this one from the Paizo staff. Do I get bonus points for stumping the staff?

Grand Lodge **

Mors Thanator wrote:
Wow, no one wants to touch this one from the Paizo staff. Do I get bonus points for stumping the staff?

This is a pretty open-ended question. Do you have some specific bit of the rules which you are questioning? Are you talking about creating a CR1 pit trap? Are you talking about using the Trapper Ranger Archetype? Is there some specific question in there? :)

Sczarni ** Venture-Lieutenant, Connecticut—Manchester aka Cpt_kirstov

Mors Thanator wrote:
Wow, no one wants to touch this one from the Paizo staff. Do I get bonus points for stumping the staff?

Also, they have pretty open hours there, so you posted this response @ 1:45PM PDT on monday. It might be they started today with a meeting from 11-1 and then had to read and respond to emails from freelancers, and then had to develop a manuscript before checking the boards. It appears that neither of those who would have responded to a PFS question have posted to the boards today at all yet, so its not like they're answering other peoples questions and not your own.

Sorry, I'm at the end of my work day, so if that came off abrasive I apoligize

Grand Lodge **

Cpt_kirstov wrote:
Sorry, I'm at the end of my work day, so if that came off abrasive I apoligize

Worse yet, nobody answered on Saturday or Sunday :)

Paizo Employee ** Developer

If there is nothing in the rules preventing a player from using the Craft skill to make a trap, then they seem to be able to do so. Most scenarios are constructed in such a way, however, that a PC neither has the time to do so, nor a situation in which it would be tactically advantageous. If you want to use Craft (traps) as your Day Job roll, you're welcome to do so.

Osirion

I was wanting to trap my alchemist's mithral chain shirt with a poison trap that triggers when grappled. The poison would be a strength draining poison. Since the Alchemist already has poison use it seemed rather appropriate. The problem is nothing says in the organized play guide that I can trap myself and nothing says that I can not. So is this something I can do? The next question is what if I want to add ray of enfeeblement to the trap? It requires craft wondrous items feat which I can not have. Can I hire an NPC to cast the spell and use the feat?????? Lots of question abound with no answers.


Mors,

Even NPCs do not have access to the crafting feats in order to make random things like that. Only magical items and gear that have been made by Paizo and put into print in an allowed book and listed in the Additional Resources document are legal for PFS play.

Osirion

The mechanical trap of the poison is non-magical though. If I can pay for a spell caster to make my master worked weapon a +1 or buy a magic item my PA allows me to buy, then why can I not hire one to add a spell to a trap?

Grand Lodge **

Enevhar Aldarion wrote:
Even NPCs do not have access to the crafting feats in order to make random things like that. Only magical items and gear that have been made by Paizo and put into print in an allowed book and listed in the Additional Resources document are legal for PFS play.

This. +1

Taldor **

The issue is that there isn't an existing (and Legal) example of a "armour-mounted trap." Additionally, you are limited to the poisons on the Additional Resources page. It has been a long time since I looked at those, so I'm not sure if there's an injury Strength damage poison.

Something of similar effect to this idea would be to get armour spikes, enchant them into "+1 Spell-Storing Armour Spikes." Buy your poison of choice and lube up the spikes. Then, get a caster to cast Ray of Enfeeblement into them before an adventure. Then, when something you know you won't get out of grabs you, just opt for the offhand attack with armour spikes in place of an attempt to control the grapple. You aren't naturally proficient with them (as they are a martial weapon), but they don't have AoOs while in a grapple, so the only drawback will be the -4 nonproficency penalty (which should be less of a hindrance since BOTH grappling people have numerous penalties.)

That's what I'd do get as close to your original idea, as you'll have trouble trying to affix a magic bear trap to your chest in PFS. Outside of Org Play, however, I'd be lying if I said i don't have a Fighter who does this (en masse. Weapon Master (Bear trap).)

Osirion

The trap is easy. A leather vest with nail like needles covered with sponges holding the 20 doses of poison under the armor. When pressed by a grapple the needles stick the grappling opponent. When the grapple stops the needles reseat back in to the sponges and recoat with poison. The trap creation rules allow for the creation of it. I just have not heard weather or not I can use them.

Osirion

Mark Garringer wrote:
Enevhar Aldarion wrote:
Even NPCs do not have access to the crafting feats in order to make random things like that. Only magical items and gear that have been made by Paizo and put into print in an allowed book and listed in the Additional Resources document are legal for PFS play.
This. +1

Then how does one pay to improve an existing magic armor, weapon, or shield from +1 to +2 by paying the difference in cost between the two?

The NPC's have to have the feats or we would all be selling +1 items to afford +2 items.

PS: The trap creation rules are in the Core Rulebook. They are printed by Paizo and there is nothing to prevent me from using them in the organized play guide. I am not sure if this was an over sight or not. That is why I am posting the "Can I use it?" question.

Andoran ***** Venture-Lieutenant, Minnesota—Anoka

I smell some gorganzola

***** Venture-Lieutenant, Arizona—Tucson aka Sir_Wulf

1 person marked this as a favorite.

Unfortunately, the organized play rules do not allow characters to craft special items for themselves outside of scenarios and do not allow such items to remain from one scenario to another. Player characters aren't permitted Craft (magic item) feats and cannot keep things like animated dead or items with continual flame from one scenario to another.

If your character wants to create some sort of booby-trapped attire or other unique item in the course of a scenario, that can be adjucated by the GM at the table. Just keep your spending within limits, as you will only be able to add the item to your character's inventory at the adventure's end if it can be fairly described as one of the items available for characters to purchase in an authorized gamebook.

Creativity is encouraged, but GMs have a responsibility to ensure that such creativity doesn't cause problems for other players or undermine game balance.

Andoran ***** Venture-Lieutenant, Minnesota—Anoka

Sir_Wulf wrote:

Unfortunately, the organized play rules do not allow characters to craft special items for themselves outside of scenarios and do not allow such items to remain from one scenario to another. Player characters aren't permitted Craft (magic item) feats and cannot keep things like animated dead or items with continual flame from one scenario to another.

If your character wants to create some sort of booby-trapped attire or other unique item in the course of a scenario, that can be adjucated by the GM at the table. Just keep your spending within limits, as you will only be able to add the item to your character's inventory at the adventure's end if it can be fairly described as one of the items available for characters to purchase in an authorized gamebook.

Creativity is encouraged, but GMs have a responsibility to ensure that such creativity doesn't cause problems for other players or undermine game balance.

I wanna see some guy wearing a couple bear traps on his chest and back... that would be funny

***** Venture-Lieutenant, Arizona—Tucson aka Sir_Wulf

Andrew Christian wrote:
I wanna see some guy wearing a couple bear traps on his chest and back... that would be funny

I suppose a female PC could cite Jessica Rabbit as her source material...

Andoran ***** Venture-Lieutenant, California—Fresno aka Sarta

Andrew Christian wrote:
I wanna see some guy wearing a couple bear traps on his chest and back... that would be funny

I believe Painlord EXPECTS to see all characters at his table festooned with beartraps by level 3. ;-)

Taldor ***

Creating traps in PFS? I'd say no. Why?

Cure Light Wounds "trap". Consulting the rules you'd create an infinite supply of CLWs with some 2500 gp.

Osirion

Deussu wrote:

Creating traps in PFS? I'd say no. Why?

Cure Light Wounds "trap". Consulting the rules you'd create an infinite supply of CLWs with some 2500 gp.

By definition a trap must cause something detrimental to the one one who triggers it or to an area. What you have described would only work if the trigger is "When attacked by and undead's natural attacks or while grappling an undead." Otherwise you are talking about a wondrous item.

Osirion

Sir_Wulf wrote:

Unfortunately, the organized play rules do not allow characters to craft special items for themselves outside of scenarios and do not allow such items to remain from one scenario to another. Player characters aren't permitted Craft (magic item) feats and cannot keep things like animated dead or items with continual flame from one scenario to another.

If your character wants to create some sort of booby-trapped attire or other unique item in the course of a scenario, that can be adjucated by the GM at the table. Just keep your spending within limits, as you will only be able to add the item to your character's inventory at the adventure's end if it can be fairly described as one of the items available for characters to purchase in an authorized gamebook.

Creativity is encouraged, but GMs have a responsibility to ensure that such creativity doesn't cause problems for other players or undermine game balance.

I could see rerolling the skill check to see if it is in good repair at the beginning of each mod after the initial purchase, since you did buy the items that make it up. A failed roll would require you spending more to keep it in good repair and get you an other roll on the next mod to see if it is working. That's perfectly acceptable.

Grand Lodge **

Mors Thanator wrote:
That's perfectly acceptable.

Various people have tried to explain to you, this is not perfectly acceptable in Organized Play. There are several reason why this can be difficult to adjudicate from table to table and there is no existing published trap, device, or armor similar to 'Mors Thanator's Armor of Don't Touch Me There!'

Hence, you cannot create it nor is it legal for play. End.

Shadow Lodge ****

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Mors Thanator wrote:
I could see rerolling the skill check to see if it is in good repair at the beginning of each mod after the initial purchase, since you did buy the items that make it up. A failed roll would require you spending more to keep it in good repair and get you an other roll on the next mod to see if it is working. That's perfectly acceptable.

Mark is correct, the rules are quite clear in this. You may not buy or construct any item not specifically indicated in the rules. A poison needle trap in your armor would fit the same roadblock as trying to create a cloak of intellect or a wristband with CLW 3x/day, neither are present in the rules.

If you want to construct traps, look at the ranger trapper archetype, or look at the feat that allows you to pick a single ranger trap because beyond that, it's simply and strictly prohibited by the rules.

Taldor ***

Mors Thanator wrote:
Deussu wrote:

Creating traps in PFS? I'd say no. Why?

Cure Light Wounds "trap". Consulting the rules you'd create an infinite supply of CLWs with some 2500 gp.

By definition a trap must cause something detrimental to the one one who triggers it or to an area. What you have described would only work if the trigger is "When attacked by and undead's natural attacks or while grappling an undead." Otherwise you are talking about a wondrous item.

Never mind that. Even if a CLW "trap" would be feasible to construct, it'd require a Craft Wondrous Item feat, which is not allowed in PFS.

So magic traps are off the list.

***** Venture-Lieutenant, Arizona—Tucson aka Sir_Wulf

Mors Thanator wrote:
I could see rerolling the skill check to see if it is in good repair at the beginning of each mod after the initial purchase, since you did buy the items that make it up. A failed roll would require you spending more to keep it in good repair and get you an other roll on the next mod to see if it is working. That's perfectly acceptable.

In a home campaign, that would be perfectly acceptable. In PFS organized play, characters have been prohibited from using their craft skills to make items they could add to their inventory. This reduces discrepancies in character wealth over the long term and prevents characters from crafting items for which they would not normally have access.

Organized play has to level the field between players who just want to focus on adventuring and those who want to use their creativity to give their character unusual abilities or advantages. In PFS play, it wouldn't be fair to put each new GM in the position of having to figure out your character's unique items before he can run the game: GMs have enough challenges already.

Your creative ideas impress me, but they definitely fall into the realm of "plans better for a home game".

Andoran ***** Venture-Lieutenant, Minnesota—Anoka

1 person marked this as a favorite.

Lets all not forget, that a nifty poison, retracting, needle(s) in your armor trap is kinda cheesy anyways.

Paizo Employee ** Developer

If you play a trapper ranger archetype or by taking the Learn Ranger Trap feat, you can create the traps listed on pages 64 and 65 of Ultimate Magic. Otherwise, you may use craft (trap) to make an existing sample traps listed in the Core Rulebook or another legal source but can not generate new traps in the same manner you can't just make up a new wondrous item. If the trap you have in mind (trapped armor) isn't on those lists, it's not a trap you can make.

Osirion

I've read enough responses to see a resounding you can't do it in PFS. Thank you one and all for your patience with me.

Osirion

Mors Thanator wrote:
I've read enough responses to see a resounding you can't do it in PFS. Thank you one and all for your patience with me.

But if you ever play a homegame, DO that.

Osirion

Dream Daemon wrote:
Mors Thanator wrote:
I've read enough responses to see a resounding you can't do it in PFS. Thank you one and all for your patience with me.
But if you ever play a homegame, DO that.

I've been doing that for years in 3.0 and 3.5 in home games.

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