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The PFS DPR Olympics 12th level challenge reboot -- Squishies welcome!


Advice

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Liberty's Edge

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(Same thread as the other one, rebooted minus the distractions which were all anyone wanted to talk about.)

"Journey with us once more into the land of module-play, where post-retirement mayhem awaits!"

* Stat array: 15,14,12,12,12,12 20pt-buy pre-racial. You have three more level bumps by 12th. Build must be PFS legal.

* Build: it would be nice to see all levels of the build (with order feats taken in, class variants chosen, final HP and save totals, etc), but it is not required.

* Equipment: you have 110,000gp; +4 weapon max.

* Prep time: You are not surprised and have one full round to prepare. (Your allies are "selfish"; no one buffs you.) You may have one intermediate-duration buff (1min/lvl up to half-hour) and one long-term (10min/lvl or greater) buff already in-effect prior to the prep round.

* Bad-guy turn: a large opponent with 10' reach moves up to 10' away on its turn and strikes you for damage. AC 30, Touch 15, Flat 23. -- If you have buffs, items or abilities which generate one or more AoOs in this scenario, take them.

* Your turn: Take a full action. You are at the edge of the opponent's reach, and it threatens. Any check you make against it is versus opposed 35 (skill, CMD, whatever). There is no difficult terrain or nearby cover.

-- That's it. Tally up. If your character has "tricks" (sneak-attack, favored-enemy, favored terrain, trips on AoOs, can Smite, Bane enhancements, etc), compute damage twice: once for nothing-is-applicable and once for opponent-eats-everything-ya-got -- If you think you can do it, do it.

Optional: make another compute versus opponent DR10/-.

* Damage/round formula: h(d+s)+ft(cd+cb+r)

h = Chance to hit, expressed as a percentage. This doesn't exceed .95 (unless you autohit for whatever reason) and never goes below .05.
d = Normal damage. This is any damage that happens any time you hit.
s = Damage which isn't multiplied on a crit. "s" stands for sneak attack, but this includes elemental/alignment properties on weapons, manyshot damage, and so on.
t = Chance to roll a threat. This is the threat range of your weapon or your chance to hit, whichever is lower.
f = This is your chance to confirm a threat. Most of the time, this is equal to h. If you have Critical Focus, it's (h+.2) or .95, whichever is higher. If you auto-confirm crits, as with a level 20 fighter or Bless Weapon, this is 1.
c = This is the number of bonus multiples you get from a crit. A 2x crit weapon is 1, a 3x crit weapon is 2, etc.

-- Remember to subtract one from your crit multiplier, or your damage will be over-done in the formula!

b = This is elemental burst damage, such as from fiery burst weapons and thundering. Such enhancements self-multiply based on your crit multiplier; if they don't, then they're added to r and not b.
r = This is fixed bonus damage dealt on a crit. No such abilities exist in PF core, to my knowledge.

* Thread rule: Keep the signal-to-noise ratio positive. No critiquing until you've posted a build (error-correcting permitted).


I'm going to submit a sneak attack build. The one is not defensively amazing, and relies primarily on stealthing and using his party. Still, once he's in the fray he has 31 AC, which is not terrible.

I'm going to use my own stat array, though it is not a minmaxed array. This is because there's no practical reason to have 12 in every stat, and it's unrealistic. The array I'm using will be 7,12,12,14,14,16. This is a PFS legal array, and not an unreasonable one. I suggest others also use actual point buys rather than the static array, as the point buy is the system PFS uses. It won't have an impact on my DPR calculation anyway, as my physical stats are based on the eidolon and not my actual stats.

The Small Pouncing Touch Sneaker: Halfling Synthesist 1/Ninja 11

Spoiler:
Ability Scores (No Eidolon)
STR 5 (7-2)
DEX 20 (14+2racial+4enhancement)
CON 14 (12+2enchancement)
INT 12
WIS 14
CHA 18 (16+2racial)

Ability Scores (Eidolon)
STR 10
DEX 20
CON 13
INT 12
WIS 14
CHA 20

Alternate Racial Traits
Swift As Shadows

Traits
Reactionary: +2 initiative
Magical Knack: +2 on summoner caster level (so mage armor lasts 3 hours per cast)

Feats
1 Weapon Finesse
3 Skill Focus (K Nat)
5 Eldritch Heritage (Sylvan)
7 Boon Companion
9 Precise Strike
11 Improved Eldritch Heritage (Sylvan)

Skills (102 total ranks)
Perception +24 (12 ranks)
Stealth +37 (12 ranks)
UMD +20 (12 ranks)
Knowledge (The Planes) +17 (12 ranks)
Acrobatics +20 (12 ranks)
Spellcraft +17 (12 ranks)
Knowledge (Arcana) +17 (12 ranks)
Diplomacy +20 (12 ranks)
Ride +14 (6 ranks)

Evolutions (3 points)
1 Pounce
1 Claws
1 Skilled (Stealth)

Ninja Tricks
3 Pressure Points
5 Minor Magic (Chill Touch)
7 Fast Stealth
9 Rogue Talent (Offensive Defense)
11 Advanced Rogue Talent (Crippling Strike)

Equipment [110000gp]
Cloak of Resistance +5 [25000]
Belt of DEX +4 [16000]
Boots of Haste [12000]
Ring of Protection +2 [8000]
Pink Rhomboid Ioun Stone [8000]
+1 Menacing on companion's armor spikes [8000]
Amulet of Might Fists +1 [5000]
Dusty Rose Ioun Stone [5000]
Pale Ruby Trillian Ioun Stone [5000]
Cracked Pale Green Ioun Stone (attack) [4000]
Cracked Pale Green Ioun Stone (saves) [4000]
+2 CHA headband [4000]
Eyes of the Eagle [2500]
Ring of Sustenance [2500]
Wayfinder [bought with PA] - Pink Rhomboid is inside
Mwk armor spikes [bought with PA]
Mwk studded leather barding [bought with PA]

And a good bit of extra money

Defenses
Can't be flat-footed or flanked.
AC: 25 / 20 FF / 19 TCH
AC after sneak attacking: 31 / 20 FF / 25 TCH.
Fort: 10
Ref: 18
Will: 12
Stealth +37 (often a good defensive tool)

Offense
Ki Pool: 9
Greater Invis: 10r/day
Haste: 10r/day
Chill Touch: 2 casts per day, 11 charges per cast

While flanking with pet (accomplishing this will be the pet's primary task):
Bite attacks do 1D4+7D6+1 and 3 STR damage
Claw attacks do 1D3+7D6+1 and 3 STR damage
Chill Touches do 8D6+1, 3 automatic STR damage, and 1 more STR damage on a failed DC16 fort save

Can't flank for Acid Splash, which 1D3+6D6 and 3 STR damage against a flat-footed opponent

Normal Pounce: 3 +21 attacks (1 bite, two claws)
Normal Chill Touch Pounce: 3 +21 tch attacks (chill touches)

Haste Pounce: 4 +22 attacks (two bites, two claws)
Haste Chill Touch Pounce: 4 +22 tch attacks (chill touches)

Acid Splash: +17 ranged touch (acid splash)

Ki point: Add an additional attack to every routine.
Greater Invisibility: Add +2 to attack and target FFAC
Non-pounce: subtract 2 from attack rolls
No flanking: subtract 4 from attack rolls, and 1D6 from damage rolls
Without sneak attack: Sad face

Animal Companion: Roc

Spoiler:
Effective Druid level 11
9 HD

Ability Scores
STR 23
DEX 20
CON 14
INT 3
WIS 13
CHA 11

Feats
1 Dodge
3 Mobility
5 Improved Nat AC
7 Precise Strike
9 Light Armor Prof

Skills
Fly maxed
3 ranks acrobatics
Others insignificant

Defense
10-1size+16nat+5dex+1dodge+3armor
34 AC, 28 FF AC, 15 TCH AC
Fort +8
Ref +11, evasion
Will +4

Offense
Not calculated - only exists for flanking and taking the AoOs, though it will add some marginal DPR

So on to the challenge.

First, I'd like to say that this build will almost always not be surprised, and when there is a surprise round he is able to charge and full attack. Also, with +33 stealth and fast stealth, he's likely to get some surprise

Precast buffs: Mage armor. Lasts 3 hours, I can cast it

Full prep round: If I can, I'll send the Roc (fly speed 80, +17 fly) over to the other side of the enemy to flank for my charge, taking an AoO against AC38 (mobility) if I have to. If my companion can accomplish this on this round, then I'll say screw preparation and use Fleeting Glance (10/day), Boots of Haste (10/day), and a Ki Point (10/day) for an additional attack, and make a charge from up to 140feet away, triggering a full attack with 3 +24 bites and 2 +24 claws against the opponent's flat-footed AC of 23. Even if it has combat reflexes, it won't get an AoO on me since I'm invisible this round.

The bites will each do 1D4+7D6+1 (28) and 3 strength damage, and the claws will do 1D3+7D6+1 (27.5) and 3 strength damage. Crits will only add 1D4+1 (3.5) for the bites and 1D3+1 (3) for the claws.

Damage output against this opponent, forgoing the preparation round, is 132.83375 damage and 14.25 strength damage per round. Despite not getting the +2 attack from the charge, my damage output would remain the same next round if I used another round of invisibility and haste and another ki point, as a +22 attack roll is still 95% accurate against 23 flat-footed. Since I sneak attacked and charged this round, my AC is now 29 and the enemy has 14 less strength (-7 attack). Next round, my AC should go up to 31 if I get another sneak attack off.

Against certain other foes (foes with not-so-low flat-footed AC) it would be more worthwhile to use chill touch in a prep round to get 11 charges of chill touch, and do a full attack of touch attacks the next round with my natural limbs instead of normal attacks. I will be 95% accurate against most foes when targeting touch AC. Also, damage increases slightly to ~141 since they're now D6's instead of D3's and D4's. Slightly more strength damage too, especially for enemies who have more than a 5% chance of failing a DC16 fort save.

Against enemies I cannot reach physically, I will use stealth (+27 while sniping) or invisibility to sneak attack foes with acid splashes for 1D3+6D6 (24) and 3 STR damage. These will have 95% chance to hit against pretty much any foe, thanks to targeting flat-footed touch AC.

If I am unable to get sneak attack (foe is immune to sneak attacks), then my DPR is terrible and my combat role is to sit in the corner and cry and/or climb onto my Roc and soar away from battle.


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A little story I made up on the spot:
This is the story of a once small-town doctor. When bandits invaded the small town of Trinity, Duncan was forced to learn one of life's most unpleasant lessons: No amount of medicine could fix a bullet wound... to the face.

He needed one hundred and sixty-nine stones in all. One hundred and sixty-nine markers to tell the world of man's cruelty. Duncan stood in silence at each stone over the next week--one hour, exactly. He didn't scowl, he didn't cry, he offered no eulogy for past regrets. He only stared.

At one week plus one he stopped over the stone that marked where Susy Tanner had drawn her last. They say that's where it happened--where he bartered his soul for prowess no man could possess. All I know is that the little ones swear they saw a single tear roll down his cheek. He didn't run, he didn't curse, he never even raised his voice. He put on Susy's father's hat, collected the ol' nutjob's guns, and muttered two words on his way out:

"Never again."

This is the story of a character who was a doctor, who became a cowboy, who became a ninja. He performed acupuncture in his spare time... using a gun. I have no idea if this is PFS legal, but here's my entry using the Gunslinger and the Ninja playtests. Ninja is mostly supliferous--more Alchemist levels or Rogue Levels work just as well in the end.

Build:

Halfling Alchemist (Vivisectionist) 3 / Gunslinger 7 / Ninja 2
All numbers in [] are after buffs and items.

Stats
10 STR / 24[30] DEX / 12 CON / 12 INT / 14 WIS / 14 CHA
(Includes Racial Modifiers, +3 DEX from levels, and a +4 DEX item)

[u]Progression[/u]
1. Point Blank Shot, Alchemy, Sneak Attack (+1d6), Brew Potion, Mutagen, Throw Anything
2. Discovery: Vestigal Arm, Poison Resistance +2, Poison Use, Torturer's Eye
3. Precise Shot, Swift Alchemy, Sneak Attack (+2d6), Cruel Anatomist
4. Gunsmithing, Grit (2/Day), Deadeye, Gunslinger's Dodge, Quick Clear
5. Rapid Reload, Bravery +1
6. Gunslinger Initiative, Pistol Whip, Utility Shot
7. Rapid Shot, Deft Shootist
8. Gun-Training (Double-Barreled Pistol)
9. Two-Weapon Fighting, Bravery +2
10. Dead Shot, Startling Shot, Targeting
11. Improved Two-Weapon Fighting
12. Ki Pool, Ninja Trick: Pressure Points

Items
Two +3 Double-Barreled Pistols (19750*2)
Belt of Incredible Dexterity +4 (16000)
Celestial Armor (22,400)
Cloak of Resistance +3 (9,000)
Ring of Protection +2 (8,000)

Total: 94,900
Left Over Gold: 15100 (Spent primarily on Bullets)

Average HP: 83
AC: 23[29]
((10(Base) +5(Armor) +5[8](Dex) +1[2](Size) +2(Deflection) +0[2](NA)))
Saves: +12/+19[+19]/+8
To-Hit: +20[+24]
((+10(BAB) +5[8](DEX) +1(PBS) +3(Enhancement) +1[2](Size)))
Situational Penalties: Not within 30ft (-1), Using Rapid Shot (-2), Two-Weapon Fighting (-4), Shooting Both Barrels At Once (-4)
Average Damage: 12.5[15.5] (Plus 3d6 (Avg 10.5) Sneak Attack)
((1d6(Base) +5[8](DEX) +1(PBS) +3(Enhancement)))

Short-Term Buff: Reduce Person
Mid-Term Buff: None
Long-Term Buff: Mutagen (+4 DEX)

I am assuming that double-barrled guns functions as a double crossbow, in that sneak attack does not apply per bullet.

Duncan will deliberately miss his first attack, rendering his opponent flat-footed. Combined with Rapid Shot, Firing Both Barrels per Attack, and using Two-Weapon Fighting (using Vestigal Arms to reload), the attack Routine is +14/+14/+9/+9 (which takes into consideration the deliberately missed attack). Duncan may spend 1 Ki (of the 4 he has) to add another +14 attack.

Without Ki, Duncan deals 0.95*(15.5*2+10.5)*2+0.7*(15.5*2+10.5)*2+0.05*0.95*3*15.5*2+0.05*0.7*3*15.5 *2 or 144.6225 average damage. Spending a point of Ki increases this to 186.256 damage. If Touch AC vs Flat-Footed is only 10, than that improves the damage by around 20 points. In addition, each attack that hits deals 1 STR or 1 DEX damage.

DR is, by far, the bane of this build. DR 10/-- decreases the damage by a whopping 20 damage per attack! This lowers the DPR to 60-ish, 80-ish when one spends Ki.

Buffs that really help Duncan:
If you have easy access to Mage Armor, using that instead of Celestial Armor will cause your AC will increase by 1 and you can put that money towards Sniper Goggles, which will add something like 22 DPR. The Ring of Deflection should also probably be switched out for a Magic Circle Against X spell, if available (which will also help his horrendous will save). Access to Greater Magic Weapon allows you to use elemental boost for your weapon which, remember, is doubly effective.

This build also benefits TREMENDOUSLY from extra attacks and damage buffs from allies, such as the Bard's Inspire Courage or Haste.

EDIT: I forgot to calculate how misfiring impacts the damage (since it would, effectively, stop the iterative attacks with that weapon). Mind you, I'm pretty sure the extra Rapid-Shot attack and Ki attack can be with either weapon, so that helps. But I'm not sure how to do the math without doing it the REALLY long way (calculating every possibility). If someone else would like to, I'd be appreciative.

Given that it's a misfire of 10% per shot, removing (on average) 23 damage per misfire... I'd reckon I'd lose somewhere around 10-20 DPR.

Liberty's Edge

Note: ignore the stat array criteria if necessary for your build to work.


Mike Schneider wrote:
Note: ignore the stat array criteria if necessary for your build to work.

I'd just edit your original post and make it 20-pt buy straight, personally. If you keep the original post updated with changes (in addition to posting them like you did) it should keep down the clutter and confusion.

Liberty's Edge

I can't edit posts older than one hour.


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Mike Schneider wrote:

(Same thread as the other one, rebooted minus the distractions which were all anyone wanted to talk about.)

How would you measure bleed damage effectively with DPR mathematics? If you are only looking at DPR for one round, you aren't really reflecting the cumulative effect bleed damage is having on your opponent as his hit points literally bleed away each round.


c873788 wrote:
Mike Schneider wrote:

(Same thread as the other one, rebooted minus the distractions which were all anyone wanted to talk about.)

How would you measure bleed damage effectively with DPR mathematics? If you are only looking at DPR for one round, you aren't really reflecting the cumulative effect bleed damage is having on your opponent as his hit points literally bleed away each round.

The difference is minimal enough that you can just count it as being the same. While you "gain" the damage that carries over to future rounds, you also "lose" the damage that's dealt in those later rounds when you do more bleed damage and it doesn't stack with the preexisting bleed.

If you only plan on doing the bleed damage on the first round, you can multiply that bleed damage by your hit chance and add it to the DPR for the subsequent rounds. But if you're doing the same thing every round, the DPR will only increase very slightly as a result of bleed.


Half-Elf Ninja Synthesist of Many Arms

Spoiler:

I'm not 100% sure the feat Multiweapon Fighting is allowed in PFS. I will do DPR with and without that feat.

Synthesist 10/Ninja 2

ABILITY SCORES:
STR 7+6enhance=13
DEX 13
CON 14
INT 11
WIS 12
CHA 17+2race+3levels+2enhance=24

FUSED SCORES
STR 20+8large+6enhance=34
DEX 14
CON 17
INT 11
WIS 12
CHA 17+2race+3levels+2enhance=24

TRAITS
Magical Knack
+1 fort

FEATS
1 Skill Focus K Nat (Half-Elf)
1 Weapon Focus (Shortsword)
3 Multiweapon Fighting
5 Eldrtich Heritage (Sylvan) - Animal Companion @ level-5, min 1
7 Boon Companion - Animal Companion @ level-1
9 Precise Strike
11 Outflank

EVOLUTIONS [16pts]
4 Large
10 Limbs (Arms) x 5
2 Increased NAT AC x 2

EQUIPMENT [110,000]
+6 belt of STR [36k]
12 +1 shortswords [28k]
Boots of Haste [12k]
Ring of Revelation (Sidestep Secret) [10k] (UMD'ed)
+3 cloak of resist [9k]
+2 Headband of CHA [4k]
Cracked Pale Green Ioun Stone (Attack) [4k]
Cracked Pale Green Ioun Stone (Saves) [4k]
Ring of Sustenance [2.5k]
0.5k extra.

SKILLS [38]
UMD +22 (12 ranks)
Perception +18 (12 ranks)
Assortment of other stuff

DEFENSES
AC: 10 + 7 CHA + 4 ARM + 14 NAT + 2 SHI - 1 SIZ = 36, FF 29, TCH 16 (incorp 20)
FORT: 3 + 3 CON + 3 RES + 1 COMP + 1 TRAIT = 11
REF: 6 + 7 CHA + 3 RES + 1 COMP = 17 (and evasion)
WILL: 7 + 1 WIS + 3 RES + 1 COMP = 12

NINJA TRICKS
Pressure Points

MORNING ROUTINE/SPELLS:
Wake up after 2 hours of sleep.
Use GMF on both claws. Recast in 12H when it runs out.
Use Mage armomr. Recast in 12H when it runs out.
Cast Overland Flight, and cast again when it runs out 12H later.

5 remaining level 1 slots used for Ant Haul on 5 party members for 24H. Light load for self is now >1800lbs.
6 level 2 slots reserved for lesser evolution surge (utility stuff) and Summon Eidolon (in case eidolon gets banished or killed) and See Invisibility
1 remaining level 3 slot saved for dimension door
No level 4 slots left

ANIMAL COMPANION
Roc
1 and 3 feats are dodge and mobility
4th HD increase INT to 3
5 and 7 feats are Precise Strike and Outflank as feats
9 feat is improved nat AC

Stats irrelevant, not calculating its DPR

ATTACKING
If Multiweapon Fighting is legal to take

Haste, flanking, and using a ki point for an extra attack

Spoiler:
+27/+27/+26/+26/+26/+26/+26/+26/+26/+26/+26/+26/+26/+26/+26/+26/+21

First two attacks are claws, doing 3D6+9 and 1 STR damage each.
Third, fourth, fifth and last are primary hand attacks, doing 1D8+2D6+13 and 1 STR damage each.
The other 11 attacks are offhands, doing 1D8+2D6+7 and 1 STR damage each.

DPR against AC 30 is 313.49 AND 14.3 STR damage!
Against foes immune to precision damage, DPR should decrease by ~100.

Flanking. No haste or ki point

Spoiler:
+26/+26/+25/+25/+25/+25/+25/+25/+25/+25/+25/+25/+25/+25/+20

First two attacks are claws, doing 3D6+9 and 1 STR damage each.
Third and last are primary hand attacks, doing 1D8+2D6+13 and 1 STR damage each.
The other 11 attacks are offhands, doing 1D8+2D6+7 and 1 STR damage each.

DPR against AC 30 is 251.61 AND 11.85 STR damage!
Against foes immune to precision damage, DPR should decrease by ~83.

No flank, haste, or Ki point

Spoiler:
+22/+22/+21/+21/+21/+21/+21/+21/+21/+21/+21/+21/+21/+21/+16

First two attacks are claws, doing 1D6+9 each.
Third and last are primary hand attacks, doing 1D8+13 each.
The other 11 attacks are offhands, doing 1D8+7 each.

DPR against AC 30 is 119.4525.

If Multiweapon Fighting is not legal to take, in which case later feats will be pushed earlier and the lvl 11 feat will be Improved Eldritch Heritage for 10r/day of greater invis

Haste, flanking, invis, and using a ki point for an extra attack

Spoiler:
+29/+29/+26/+26/+26/+22/+22/+22/+22/+22/+22/+22/+22/+22/+22/+22/+21

First two attacks are claws, doing 3D6+9 and 1 STR damage each.
Third, fourth, fifth and last are primary hand attacks, doing 1D8+2D6+13 and 1 STR damage each.
The other 11 attacks are offhands, doing 1D8+2D6+7 and 1 STR damage each.

DPR against FFAC 23 is 356.2975 AND 16.15 STR damage!
Against foes immune to precision damage, DPR should decrease by ~113.

Flanking. No haste, invis, or ki point

Spoiler:
+26/+26/+23/+19/+19/+19/+19/+19/+19/+19/+19/+19/+19/+19/+18

First two attacks are claws, doing 3D6+9 and 1 STR damage each.
Third and last are primary hand attacks, doing 1D8+2D6+13 and 1 STR damage each.
The other 11 attacks are offhands, doing 1D8+2D6+7 and 1 STR damage each.

DPR against AC30 is 178.8275 AND 8.35 STR damage!
Against foes immune to precision damage, DPR should decrease by ~58.5.

No flank, haste, or Ki point

Spoiler:
+22/+22/+19/+15/+15/+15/+15/+15/+15/+15/+15/+15/+15/+15/+14

First two attacks are claws, doing 1D6+9 each.
Third and last are primary hand attacks, doing 1D8+13 each.
The other 11 attacks are offhands, doing 1D8+7 each.

DPR against AC30 is 73.6825.

IMPORTANT EDIT! I slightly miscalculated the DPR, as I accidentally included the precision damage in my crits. This did not have a huge impact on the numbers; for instance, the highest damage attack pattern was listed as doing 356.3 DPR when in actuality it only does 345 DPR. you can probably multiply the DPR numbers I gave by 0.95 and get roughly accurate results.

The strength damage numbers should be accurate. Also note that creatures immune to precision will not take the strength damage either, as it only happens on sneak attacks.


Omelite wrote:

The difference is minimal enough that you can just count it as being the same. While you "gain" the damage that carries over to future rounds, you also "lose" the damage that's dealt in those later rounds when you do more bleed damage and it doesn't stack with the preexisting bleed.

If you only plan on doing the bleed damage on the first round, you can multiply that bleed damage by your hit chance and add it to the DPR for the subsequent rounds. But if you're doing the same thing every round, the DPR will only increase very slightly as a result of bleed.

I have to disagree with you about bleed damage not stacking. I had in mind a 2 weapon keen kukri wielding Ranger who can pick up the Bleeding Critical feat at 11th or 12th level. This does 2d6 points of bleed damage per critical hit and continues to bleed this amount each round.

That's 6 attacks per round with a 15-20 critical range so the bleed is happening frequently and the bleed DOES stack according to the feat.


c873788 wrote:
Omelite wrote:

The difference is minimal enough that you can just count it as being the same. While you "gain" the damage that carries over to future rounds, you also "lose" the damage that's dealt in those later rounds when you do more bleed damage and it doesn't stack with the preexisting bleed.

If you only plan on doing the bleed damage on the first round, you can multiply that bleed damage by your hit chance and add it to the DPR for the subsequent rounds. But if you're doing the same thing every round, the DPR will only increase very slightly as a result of bleed.

I have to disagree with you about bleed damage not stacking. I had in mind a 2 weapon keen kukri wielding Ranger who can pick up the Bleeding Critical feat at 11th or 12th level. This does 2d6 points of bleed damage per critical hit and continues to bleed this amount each round.

That's 6 attacks per round with a 15-20 critical range so the bleed is happening frequently and the bleed DOES stack according to the feat.

Ah yes, I see that this feat provides an exception to bleed damage not stacking.

Note that it does NOT do the bleed damage when you swing. All of the bleed damage happens at the beginning of the enemy's turn each round, and that's the only time they take bleed damage.

Chances are, unless you're not a high DPR build, things are going down in one or two turns anyway (especially with multiple crits, and especially with other party members existing). If they go down in two full attacks, then they've still only taken the bleed damage you did on the first round and they only took it once.

If you do want to calculate the effect on DPR of your bleed damage, though, then here is a solution.

Find out how many times you crit, on average, on a full attack against AC 30. Multiply this by 2D6 (7) and keep it separate from the rest of your DPR. We'll say it turns out that you'll crit an average of exactly 1.5 times on average, doing 10.5 bleed each turn on average.

The amount of times you crit on average can be computed as such:
For each hit, do chance to threaten*chance to cofirm, and add up the results from each hit. Unless you don't hit on a 15, chance to threaten will be 0.3. Chance to confirm will either be your chance to hit on a given attack or it will be your chance to hit +0.2 if you have critical focus which I assume you do (maximum 0.95).

Once you have your average bleed damage per round, separated from your average normal damage per round, you can do the following:

First full-attack round, add 1x the avg bleed damage to your DPR. The enemy takes bleed damage from your first barrage at the beginning of its next turn.

Second full-attack round, add 2x the avg bleed damage to your DPR. Enemy takes bleed damage from your first two full attacks at the beginning of its next turn.

Third full-attack round, add 3x the avg bleed damage to your DPR, since the enemy will take bleed damage from your first three full attacks before its next turn. etc.

This simplistically assumes you're both rooted in the ground and you get a full attack every round, but that's the nature of DPR calculation.

Liberty's Edge

Omelite wrote:

Half-Elf Ninja Synthesist of Many Arms

I'm not 100% sure the feat Multiweapon Fighting is allowed in PFS. I will do DPR with and without that feat.

...+29/+29/+26/+26/+26/+22/+22/+22/+22/+22/+22/+22/+22/+22/+22/+22/+21

First two attacks are claws, doing 3D6+9 and 1 STR damage each.
Third, fourth, fifth and last are primary hand attacks, doing 1D8+2D6+13 and 1 STR damage each.
The other 11 attacks are offhands, doing 1D8+2D6+7 and 1 STR damage each.

DPR against FFAC 23 is 356.2975

:-D <laff> You're certainly providing ammunition for prohibiting MwF!


Mike Schneider wrote:
Omelite wrote:

Half-Elf Ninja Synthesist of Many Arms

I'm not 100% sure the feat Multiweapon Fighting is allowed in PFS. I will do DPR with and without that feat.

...+29/+29/+26/+26/+26/+22/+22/+22/+22/+22/+22/+22/+22/+22/+22/+22/+21

First two attacks are claws, doing 3D6+9 and 1 STR damage each.
Third, fourth, fifth and last are primary hand attacks, doing 1D8+2D6+13 and 1 STR damage each.
The other 11 attacks are offhands, doing 1D8+2D6+7 and 1 STR damage each.

DPR against FFAC 23 is 356.2975

:-D <laff> You're certainly providing ammunition for prohibiting MwF!

That was actually one of the attack routines for NOT being able to take multiweapon fighting (the reason the DPR is so high is the greater invisibility, giving +2 attack and targeting the 23 FFAC instead of the 30 AC - making even the -8 attack offhands and the -9 attack iterative have 95% hit chance).

Liberty's Edge

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My polearm barbarian/fighter from the other thread, with added equipment. He is pre-racial 15,14,12,12,12,12 and by-the-book PFS.

Spoiler:
STR:15 dwarf
DEX:12
CON+16
INT:12
WIS+14
CHA-10

Build goal: combination of very high saving throws, "damage per strike" output, and enemy full-attack-thwarting.

Class variants: fighter(Weapon Master), barbarian(Brutal Pugilist, Drunken Brute)
Level..: Ba Rf Rr Rw Rhp Ra Rd
00 base: 00 03 01 02 000 03 00 Traits: Heirloom Weapon, Zest for Battle
01 barb1 01 10 03 06 018 07 06 rage 7r/day, Raging Drunk(B:DB), Raging Vitality
02 cler1 01 12 03 08 029 07 06 move+10, Kurgess(Community/Travel)
03 figh1 02 14 03 08 042 07 09 Power Attack, Quickdraw/EWP
04 figh2 03 15 03 08 055 09 13 STR>16, Weapon Guard +1(F:WM), Pushing Assault
05 barb2 04 16 03 08 068 11 16 Reckless Abandon +1, Savage Grapple(B:BP), WF(Fauchard)
06 barb3 05 16 04 09 081 12 16 rage 11r/day, Pit Fighter(Sunder)(B:BP)
07 barb4 06 19 06 11 094 14 16 Reckless Abandon +2, Quick Relfexes(Rage Power), Steel Soul
08 figh3 07 19 07 12 107 16 17 STR>17, Weapon Training +1(F:WM)
09 figh4 08 20 07 12 120 17 22 Improved Critical, Weapon Specialization(Fauchard)
10 figh5 09 20 07 12 133 18 22 Reliable Strike +1(F:WM)
11 figh6 10 21 08 13 146 19 22 Weapon Guard +2(F:WM), Critical Focus, Quickdraw
12 figh7 11 21 08 13 159 21 25 STR>18, Weapon Training +2(F:WM)

Quickdraw(3rd) retrained to EWP:Fauchard at 11th.

# Saving throws are calculated as "versus magic while raging" (i.e., +4 Rf, +6 Wi and +8 Ft for Steel Soul dwarf with Raging Vitality) since this will be the most common deployment of saves.

# Rhp = raging hitpoints....self-explanatory.

# Ra = raging attack bonus: includes only Rage, feats, Weapon Training, Reckless Abandon, and Power Attack penalty.

# Rd = raging numerical damage bonus: Rage+2H+PA+WT only.

Att/dmg-related equipment at 12th:

* 18,000gp: fauchard: +2/Furious (+5/+5 att/dmg w/Raging)
* 15,000gp: Gloves of Dueling (+2/+2 att/dmg w/WT weapon)
* 10,000gp: Belt of Physical Might (+2/+2 STR/CON, enh)
* 12,000gp: Boots of Speed (+1 att, extra attack on full attack)
* 8,000gp: armor spikes: +1/Furious (+4/+4 att/dmg, less off-hand)

Buffs and spells at 12th, if two pre-combat buffs and one prep-round:

* 100gp/ea: potion of Enlarge Person (2min, +2 STR, size)
* 400gp/ea: potion of Heroism (40min, +2 att, morale; +1dmg Zest for Battle)
* (spell cast in prep-round): Divine Favor (1min, +1/+1 att/dmg, luck)
* (rage): <pre-factored>

Total equipment+buffs bonuses: +13att/+12dmg
Total bonuses: +32 or +33att*/2d8+37dmg(Enlarged)
Total bonuses armor-spikes: +25 or +26att*/
(*depending upon Boots of Speed)

Combat: I am Enlarged with a polearm, and get an opp versus closing 10'-reach opponents. Let us assume that, in post-retirement "death-mod" tiers, this attack will be a Pounce or worse; I will use my Pushing Assault feat and forfeit 9pts of Power Attack damage on a successful hit to nerf its charge/full-attack sequence. I will also use my daily Reliable Strike power to re-roll any misses on this opp, or any failed threats should I get one (and I didn't use Reliable Strike to reroll a 1 on the main attack -- my chances of failing the main attack are 1 in 400).

Versus AC 30:
AoO#1: (399/400)(2d8+28)+[(.3)(398/400)(2d8+28)] = 47.952
...for maximum DPR, let us assume the monster is not knocked off its charge-line by Pushing Assault, it continues to advance, and attempts a grab or grapple (triggering a second opp from Brutal Pugilist):
AoO#2: (397/400)(2d8+28)+[(.3)(396/400)(2d8+28)] = 47.7115

My full-attack turn: <click> Boots of Speed for +33/+33/+28/+23
3x{.95(2d8+37)+[(.3)(.95)(2d8+37)]=56.81} = 170.43
1x .70(2d8+37)+[(.3)(.95)(2d8+37)] = 45.31

Note: I only use Reliable Strike to secure Pushing Assault attacks or crits.

Total from 2 AoOs + full-attack versus AC30: 311.4035 = Don't mess with an angry dwarf.


Omelite wrote:

Find out how many times you crit, on average, on a full attack against AC 30. Multiply this by 2D6 (7) and keep it separate from the rest of your DPR. We'll say it turns out that you'll crit an average of exactly 1.5 times on average, doing 10.5 bleed each turn on average.

Thanks for your feedback on this matter.

By the way, you mention AC 30 as the opponent's AC. Is this the average for CR12? I think in the original DPR Olympics thread that the average AC for CR10 was calculated at 24. It would be useful to know the average AC for all CRs from 1 through to 12 to see how your build ideas perform as they go up in levels. Is this information available anywhere?

Liberty's Edge

"Average AC for CR12"? Dunno.

The challenge situation is a final-arc for retiring PFS characters -- You'll be lucky to face anything with an AC as low as 24. Most 12th-level fighters can hit that in their sleep with an improvised wet noodle while blind-folded.

Or rather, unlucky, since anything that easy to hit and which represents a challenge in a special adventure "death-mod" is probably incredibly lethal. As in Improved Grab > Swallow Whole > Stun > Digest > CON-drain > Etc.

I've faced AC 24 already in Tier 3/4 (20 seems to be average), as well as swallow/con-drain/digest/yuck (gibbering mouthers love halflings and gnomes).

Liberty's Edge

MAD-afflicted paladin/rogue halfling (money very tight):

Spoiler:
STR-12
DEX+17
CON:14
INT:12
WIS:07
CHA+16

Level..: Ba Ft Rf Wi HP ....
00 base: -- 03 04 00 -- (halfling +1 saves) Traits: Precocious Spellcaster, Freedom Fighter
01 pala1 01 05 04 02 12 Smi1x1, Detect evil, 5 skills (favored class: paladin), Point Blank Shot
02 rogu1 01 05 06 02 19 Smi1x1, SA+1d6, 10 skills
03 pala2 02 09 09 06 28 Smi2x1, Rapid Shot, divine grace, lay on hands
04 rogu2 03 09 11 06 35 Smi2x1, DEX>18, evasion, Finesse Rogue
05 figh1 04 11 11 06 43 Smi2x1, Precise Shot, Deadly Aim
06 pala3 05 11 12 06 52 Smi3x1, aura courage, mercy1, divine health
07 pala4 06 12 12 07 61 Smi4x2, Channel, spells 1st, Manyshot
08 pala5 07 12 12 07 70 Smi5x2, CHA>17, divine bond +1
09 pala6 08 13 13 08 79 Smi6x2, mercy2, Power Attack
10 pala7 09 13 13 08 88 Smi7x3, spells 2nd
11 pala8 10 13 13 09 97 Smi8x3, aura of resolve, divine bond +2, Weapon Focus: Longbow
12 figh2 11 15 14 10 106 Smi8x3, CHA>18, Improved Precise Shot

* 4,000gp: Headband of Alluring Charisma (+2 CHA)
* 10,000gp: Belt of Physical Might (+2/+2 STR/DEX, enh)
* 12,000gp: Boots of Speed (+1 att, extra attack on full attack)
* 16,000gp: Silver Smite Bracelet: +4dmg w/Smiting; +1 Smite
* 25,600gp: Oathbow: +5att/+5(x4crit)+2d6dmg vs sworn foe 1/day
* 25,000gp: Bracers of Archery, Greater: +2/+1 att/dmg, competence

Buffs and spells at 12th, if two pre-combat buffs and one prep-round:

* Holy: (bonded weapon enhancement)
* Weapon of Awe (8min, +2dmg, sacred, foe shaken on crit 1rnd no-save)
* 400gp/ea: potion of Heroism (40min, +2 att, morale; +1dmg Zest for Battle)
* Divine Favor (prep-round): (8min, +3/+3 att/dmg, luck)

Holy Oathbow Manyshot Point-Blank Sneak Smite versus flat-footed ultra-evil while freeing slaves:
Att: +31/+31/+31/+26/+21

1st,2nd,3rd arrows: (3x)[(.95)(6d6+27)+(.05)(.95)(1d6+27)(3)] = 149.83875
... Manyshot: .95(5d6+27) = 42.275
-5 iterative: .75(6d6+27)+(.05)(.75)(1d6+27)(3) = 39.43125
-10 iterative: .5(6d6+27)+(.05)(.5)(1d6+27)(3) = 26.2875
bonus smite damage on first successful attack (99.99% vs AC30): +12

Holy Oathbow Manyshot Point-Blank Sneak Smite versus flat-footed ultra-evil boss while freeing slaves (!): 269.425

:-P

Versus non-evil/no-Oath/no-Sneak: less than half that.


Before I go typing up one of my favorite builds, I have to ask if Leadership is usable or just too cheesy. I'm a big fan of my fighter and rogue critical tag-team.

Liberty's Edge

Character must be PFS legal.

No Leadership, no assassins, no goblins, etc.

Grand Lodge RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

Mike Schneider wrote:
MAD-afflicted paladin/rogue halfling (money very tight):** spoiler omitted **...

This where Burlap's headed?

Liberty's Edge

Jiggy wrote:
Mike Schneider wrote:
MAD-afflicted paladin/rogue halfling (money very tight):** spoiler omitted **...
This where Burlap's headed?

I'll try, although Bracers of Archery, Greater are overkill (and likely cost-prohibitive; if I play down even once higher up, it's unlikely I'll be able to afford all that junk).

Liberty's Edge

Theme: Gorum battle-cleric who jams everything including the kitchen sink into a single, horrific channeled/spell-stored greatsword attack. (The build is unrealistic given the MAD stats and the absurd expense of a +6 belt eating up a third of funds (when a +4 and a second +3 weapon would be cheaper), but I wanted a 30 STR and 18 CHA just for bragging purposes.)

Spoiler:
STR+18 bump 4th, 8th (26)
DEX:12
CON:12
INT:07
WIS:14 (17) bump 12th
CHA:14 (18)

Build: twelve levels of cleric. Alignment:CN

00 base: Heirloom Weapon (+1 trait to attack), Sacred Conduit (+1 channel DC)
01 [Gorum: Destruction, Glory(Heroism)] Armor Proficiency:Heavy, Channel Smite
03 WF:Greatsword
05 Power Attack
07 Quicken Spell
08 Destructive Aura, Aura of Heroism
09 Vital Strike
11 Improved Critical:Greatsword

* 500gp: Wayfinder (to hold IBS Ioun Stone, resonates Blind Flight)
* 4,000gp: Ioun Stone: Pale Green Prism (cracked): +1 att (competence)
* 8,000gp: Ioun Stone: Incansescent Blue Sphere: WIS+2 (enhancement)
* 18,000gp: greatsword: +1/Vicious/Spell-Storing
* 16,000gp: Headband of Alluring Charisma +4 (enhancement)
* 36,000gp: Belt of Giant Strength +6 (enhancement)
* 11,000gp: Phylactery of Negative Channeling (+2d6 channel damage)

Buffs and spells at 12th, if two pre-combat buffs and one prep-round:

* (contained in spellsword): Searing Light: 5d8
* (supernatural ability): Destructive Aura: +6 dmg, morale
* (pre-combat buff): Heroism, Greater: 1min/lvl, +4 att, morale
* (pre-combat buff): Weapon of Awe (Extended): 24min, +2 dmg, sacred, crits auto-confirm
* (cast in prep-round): Righteous Might: 1 rnd/lvl, STR+4, enlarged
* (swift-cast): Divine Favor (Quickened): 1 rnd/lvl, +3/+3 att/dmg, luck

Channel Smite DC: 21 vs will for half (4d6 instead of 8d6)

Attack: 9(BAB)+10(STR:5+2[size]+3[enh])+1(trait)+1(WF)+1(sword)+1(ioun)+4(Hgr)+3(DiF)-3(PA) = +27

Damage on first hit: 3d6(sword)+2d6(Vic)+3d6(VtS)+8d6(chn)+5d8(SrL)+15(STR)+9(PA)+6(aura)+2(awe) +3(DiF) = 113.5

Damage, if a crit = 3d6+35 more for 159

"Look, Ma! No two-hand falcata cheese!"

Given that the spell-channel is a one-shot, Quickened Searing Lights are possible in subsequent rounds, Channel Smites are probably reserved for just the two highest-bonus Righteous Might attacks, and Vital Strike precludes a full-attack, I'm not remotely interested in doing all the math (and would probably botch it anyway). But, with four attacks per full-attack and channels not running out for a few rounds, I'm guessing DPR will be in the 250-300 range until he runs out of gas.

Liberty's Edge

wraithstrike wrote:
Mike made a 12th level DPR thread, but it is restricted to PFS meaning I would have to learn a bunch of rules I don't care for

In a nutshell, your character is likely (98% chance) PFS to be legal is he is subject to the following:

* 20pt buy
* core race
* CRB or APG classes
* CRB or APG feats, items, traits, etc.
* no more than 25% of wealth in one item.
* no Scribe/Craft/Brew or other item-creation
* no Leadership, and not more than one animal companion
* not evil, and doesn't cast "evil"-descriptor spells

Misc cruft: no armored-kilts, Magical Knack or Rich Parents.

For terms of DPS, the minor things (traits, kilts, etc) are unlikely to make a huge difference in damage, if any.


Only Core and APG? Nothing from UM or any of the splat books? Feats like Dervish Dance aren't in either of those but are pretty important for a lot of builds.

Liberty's Edge

SunsetPsychosis wrote:
Only Core and APG? Nothing from UM or any of the splat books? Feats like Dervish Dance aren't in either of those but are pretty important for a lot of builds.

Nononono....

-- I merely said that you character was likely to be PFS-legal if your followed those constraints (which precludes none of the a ton of newer stuff that's valid too).

The list is constantly updated.


c873788 wrote:
Omelite wrote:

Find out how many times you crit, on average, on a full attack against AC 30. Multiply this by 2D6 (7) and keep it separate from the rest of your DPR. We'll say it turns out that you'll crit an average of exactly 1.5 times on average, doing 10.5 bleed each turn on average.

Thanks for your feedback on this matter.

By the way, you mention AC 30 as the opponent's AC. Is this the average for CR12? I think in the original DPR Olympics thread that the average AC for CR10 was calculated at 24. It would be useful to know the average AC for all CRs from 1 through to 12 to see how your build ideas perform as they go up in levels. Is this information available anywhere?

AC30 was just the example the OP used. It's not the average CR12 AC.

You can see a list of essentially average ACs here: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/rules-for-monsters/monster-creation


Mike Schneider wrote:
wraithstrike wrote:
Mike made a 12th level DPR thread, but it is restricted to PFS meaning I would have to learn a bunch of rules I don't care for

In a nutshell, your character is likely (98% chance) PFS to be legal is he is subject to the following:

* 20pt buy
* core race
* CRB or APG classes
* CRB or APG feats, items, traits, etc.
* no more than 25% of wealth in one item.
* no Scribe/Craft/Brew or other item-creation
* no Leadership, and not more than one animal companion
* not evil, and doesn't cast "evil"-descriptor spells

Misc cruft: no armored-kilts, Magical Knack or Rich Parents.

For terms of DPS, the minor things (traits, kilts, etc) are unlikely to make a huge difference in damage, if any.

Thanks. That clears things up for me.


Omelite wrote:
c873788 wrote:
Omelite wrote:

Find out how many times you crit, on average, on a full attack against AC 30. Multiply this by 2D6 (7) and keep it separate from the rest of your DPR. We'll say it turns out that you'll crit an average of exactly 1.5 times on average, doing 10.5 bleed each turn on average.

Thanks for your feedback on this matter.

By the way, you mention AC 30 as the opponent's AC. Is this the average for CR12? I think in the original DPR Olympics thread that the average AC for CR10 was calculated at 24. It would be useful to know the average AC for all CRs from 1 through to 12 to see how your build ideas perform as they go up in levels. Is this information available anywhere?

AC30 was just the example the OP used. It's not the average CR12 AC.

You can see a list of essentially average ACs here: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/rules-for-monsters/monster-creation

linkified


wraithstrike wrote:
linkified

That's a very handy link. My thanks to Omelite and wraithstrike.

Liberty's Edge

Omelite wrote:
AC30 was just the example the OP used. It's not the average CR12 AC.

Yep. -- I jacked it up "to separate the men from the boys". Analogy: does your ball-player still deliver the goods post-season when the championships are on the line, or does he stiff out facing the big challenges in the final games?

That's also why I included realistic buffing situations, a slightly higher level, and chances for AoOs. Previous DPR threads "kept it simple" by focusing only on single-round full-attack with no buffs -- which really overemphasized TWF/flurry/multi builds (specializing in taking apart stupid low-AC monsters that stand still for them) all out of proportion to the "reality" of encounters (particularly module encounters).

But: enough boring posts without builds in them....

"Send in the next warriors!"

Liberty's Edge

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"Bowbarian" -- theme: artillery cannon Perception-monkey who eclipses anyone else for BASE raw firepower with a bow. No animals, no spellcasting, no charisma....would be boring as hell to play, but is given a Diplo trait and always takes skill points rather than HP.

Half-elf - STR:14, DEX+19, CON:12, INT:12, WIS:12, CHA:07

Traits: Ekujae Reflexes (+2 INIT), Ease of Faith (+1/Diplomacy class)
01 barb1 Point Blank Shot, Skill Focus:Perception
02 figh1 Precise Shot (weapon master fighter, bows)
03 barb2 Rapid Shot, Reckless Abandon +1
04 barb3 DEX>20
05 barb4 Deadly Aim, Superstition, Reckless Abandon +2
06 figh2 Manyshot
07 figh3 Weapon Focus:Longbow, Weapon Training +1
08 figh4 DEX>21, Weapon Specialization:Longbow
09 barb5 Point Blank Master
10 barb6 Witch Hunter
11 barb7 Improved Precise Shot
12 barb8 DEX>22, Good for What Ails You, Reckless Abandon +3

Maxed Skills: Acrobatics, Perception, Escape Artist

* 400gp/ea: potion of Heroism (40min, +2 att, morale)
* 4,150gp: Dusty Rose Prism Ioun (wayfinder, +1 AC, +2 CMB/CMD)
* 8,000gp: Pale Blue Rhomboid Ioun Stone (+2 STR, enh)
* 12,000gp: Boots of Speed (+1 att, extra attack on full attack)
* 15,000gp: Gloves of Dueling (Weapon Training +2, CMD +4)
* 16,000gp: Belt of Incredible Dexterity (+4 DEX, enh)
* 18,900gp: +1/Keen/Seeking STR+5 composite longbbow
* 25,000gp: Bracers of Archery, Greater (+2/+1 att/dmg, competence)

Pre-combat buff: consume potion of Heroism

Att: 12(BAB)+8(DEX)+1(WF)+3(WT)+3(reckless)+2(Barc)+2(enh)+1(haste)+2(heroism) = +34 ... -2(RS)-4(Daim) = +28 ...full hasted attack: +28/+28/+28/+23/+18

Dmg: d8+5(STR)+3(WT)+2(WS)+8(Daim)+1(enh)+1(Barc) = ~19.5

1st,2nd,3rd arrows: (3x)[(.95)(19.5)+(.1)(.95)(19.5)(2)] = 66.69
... Manyshot: .95(19.5) = 18.525
-5 iterative: .70(19.5)+(.1)(.70)(19.5)(2) = 16.38
-10 iterative: .45(19.5)+(.1)(.45)(19.5)(2) = 10.53

Raw damage total: 112.125, or 123.625 vs against creatures possessing spells or spell-like abilities. (Each additional extra point of numerical bonus yields 1.4375 damage.)

-- Doesn't seem like a lot compared to many of the other builds, but the thing to remember is that this is all-the-time bread-n-butter damage which requires no special circumstances.

Liberty's Edge

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Bowbarian tweaks and realistic expenses in PFS:

"Rule 1: Hit. Rule 2: Our bow will not be sundered or disarmed."

Half-Elf - STR:14, DEX+19, CON:12, INT:12, WIS:12, CHA:07

Traits: Ekujae Reflexes (+2 INIT), Berserker of the Society (rage+3/day)
01 barb1 (Urban, Brutal Pugilist, Drunken Brute), Point Blank Shot, (EWP:Falcata or Skill focus:Perception)
02 figh1 Precise Shot (weapon master fighter, bows)
03 figh2 Weapon Guard +1(WM), Rapid Shot, Weapon Focus:Longbow
04 figh3 DEX>18, Weapon Training +1(WM)
05 figh4 Weapon Specialization:Longbow, Point Blank Master
06 barb2 Reckless Abandon +1, Savage Grapple(BP)
07 barb3 Pit Fighter(BP), Manyshot
08 barb4 DEX>19, Reckless Abandon +2, Good For What Ails You
09 figh5 Reliable Strike(WM), Quickdraw
10 figh6 Weapon Guard +2(WM), Deadly Aim
11 figh7 Weapon Training +2(WM), Power Attack
12 figh8 DEX>20, Greater Weapon Focus

Favored class bonuses: hp or skills with barb levels, +1 CMD with fighter levels.

* 500 Dusty Rose Prism Ioun (cracked) +1 init (competence)
* 400ea potion of Heroism (40min, +2 att, morale)
* 1,800 Efficient Quiver
* 1,800 Scabbard of Vigor
* 2,000 Ring of Deflection AC+1
* 2,000 Amulet of Natural Armor AC+1
* 4,000 Headband of Inspired Wisdom WIS+2
* 4,000 Pale Green Prism Ioun (cracked) +1 att (competence)
* 4,000 Pale Green Prism Ioun (cracked) +1 saves (competence)
* 4,150 Dusty Rose Prism Ioun (wayfinder, AC+1, resonate +2 CMB/CMD)
* 9,000 Cloak of Resistance +3
* 9,165 Buckler AC+3
* 9,250 Quilted Cloth AC+3
* 12,000 Boots of Speed (+1 att, extra attack on full attack)
* 15,000 Gloves of Dueling (Weapon Training +2, CMD +4)
* 16,000 Belt of Physical Perfection +2
* 18,900 +1/Seeking/Merciful STR+5 composite longbbow

Liberty's Edge

Bowbarian: corrections and tweaks to make considerably more formidable in melee (now a true switch-hitter), especially unwanted grapples (Quickdraw moved all the way to first level, etc):

"Rule 1: Hit, with something. Rule 2: Our weapons will not be sundered or disarmed."

Half-Elf - STR:14, DEX+19, CON:12, INT:12, WIS:12, CHA:07

Traits: Elven Reflexes (+2 INIT), Berserker of the Society (rage+3/day)
01 barb1 (Urban, Brutal Pugilist, Drunken Brute), EWP:Elven Curve Blade, Quickdraw
02 figh1 Point Blank Shot (weapon master fighter, bows)
03 figh2 Weapon Guard +1(WM), Rapid Shot, Weapon Focus:Longbow
04 figh3 DEX>20, Weapon Training (bows) +1(WM)
05 figh4 Weapon Specialization:Longbow, Power Attack
06 barb2 Reckless Abandon +1, Savage Grapple(BP)
07 barb3 Pit Fighter(BP), Snap Shot or Manyshot or Deadly Aim
08 barb4 DEX>21, Reckless Abandon +2, Good For What Ails You
09 figh5 Reliable Strike(WM), Manyshot or Snap Shot or Deadly Aim
10 figh6 Weapon Guard +2(WM), Deadly Aim or Manyshot or Snap Shot
11 figh7 Weapon Training (bows) +2(WM), FEAT
12 figh8 DEX>22, FEAT

Favored class bonuses: hp or skills with barb levels, +1 CMD with fighter levels.

Deliberate sacrifice: there is no Precise Shot in this "archer" build! "Huh? Whajou talkin' 'bout, Rufus? You oughta yo mind, foo?" -- Method to the madness: first, Precise Shot isn't needed as a prerequisite for anything else except Improved Precise Shot (whose utility we somewhat overlap with the Seeking enhancement to our bow); secondly, we're much more destructive Power Attacking with a Quickdrawn Furious curve blade in melee than we are with arrows; third, with an on-demand DEX of 26 and Reckless and Dueling gloves, our attack bonus is so stupidly high that we don't need the situational +4. Why not take it at 7th instead of Snap Shot? ...because if we are surprise-attacked by a nasty improved grab monster while holding our bow after 6th level, we get an attack of opportunity via brutal pugilist archetype (but we cannot Quickdraw a sword on the monster's turn, and so need a threatening weapon) -- being grappled at higher level is the absolute worst thing than can happen to an archer (it usually means he's going to die the next round).

Tactics: controlled rage (DEX) while using bow; switch to controlled rage (STR) when using sword.

Favored class bonuses: hp or skills with barb levels, +1 CMD or hp with fighter levels.

* 500 Dusty Rose Prism Ioun (cracked) +1 init (competence)
* 750ea potion of Heroism (30min, +2 att, morale)
* 1,800 Efficient Quiver
* 1,800 Scabbard of Vigor
* 2,000 Ring of Deflection AC+1
* 2,000 Amulet of Natural Armor AC+1
* 4,000 Headband of Inspired Wisdom WIS+2
* 4,000 Pale Green Prism Ioun (cracked) +1 att (competence)
* 4,000 Pale Green Prism Ioun (cracked) +1 saves (competence)
* 4,150 Dusty Rose Prism Ioun (wayfinder, AC+1, resonate +2 CMB/CMD)
* 4,165 Buckler AC+2
* 8,380 +1/Furious elven curve blade
* 8,700 +1/Seeking STR+3 composite longbbow
* 9,000 Cloak of Resistance +3
* 12,000 Boots of Speed (+1 att, extra attack on full attack)
* 14,160 Boneless Leather AC+2 (CMD+5, EscArt+5, DR5:piercing/slashing)
* 15,000 Gloves of Dueling (Weapon Training +2, CMD +4)
* 16,000 Belt of Physical Perfection +2

Pre-combat buff: consume potion of Heroism

Att: 12(BAB)+8(DEX)+1(WF)+3(WT)+3(reckless)+2(Barc)+2(enh)+1(haste)+2(heroism) = +34 ... -2(RS)-4(Daim) = +28 ...full hasted attack: +28/+28/+28/+23/+18

Dmg: d8+5(STR)+3(WT)+2(WS)+8(Daim)+1(enh)+1(Barc) = ~19.5

1st,2nd,3rd arrows: (3x)[(.95)(19.5)+(.1)(.95)(19.5)(2)] = 66.69
... Manyshot: .95(19.5) = 18.525
-5 iterative: .70(19.5)+(.1)(.70)(19.5)(2) = 16.38
-10 iterative: .45(19.5)+(.1)(.45)(19.5)(2) = 10.53

Raw damage total: 112.125, or 123.625 vs against creatures possessing spells or spell-like abilities. (Each additional extra point of numerical bonus yields 1.4375 damage.)

-- Doesn't seem like a lot compared to many of the other builds, but the thing to remember is that this is all-the-time bread-n-butter damage which requires no special circumstances.

Liberty's Edge

Bowbarian: more corrections and tweaks (got rid of the Snap Shot idea because it also needs Point Blank Master to be effective -- and that's too many also-ran conditionals for a switch-hitter build which needs every feat to be "working" full-time; any feat not used multiple times every combat is robbing space); this build features slightly lower bow damage to accommodate strong tanking abilities all coming together at 12th (for those deadly post-retirement special missions they'll eventually get around to writing once there are lots of retired PCs).

"Rule 1: Hit, with something. Rule 2: Our weapons will not be sundered or disarmed."

Half-Elf - STR:14, DEX+19, CON:12, INT:12, WIS:12, CHA:07

Traits: Elven Reflexes (+2 INIT), Berserker of the Society (rage+3/day)
01 barb1 (Urban, Brutal Pugilist, Drunken Brute), EWP:Elven Curve Blade, Quickdraw
02 figh1 Point Blank Shot (weapon master fighter, bows)
03 figh2 Weapon Guard +1(WM), Rapid Shot, Weapon Focus:Longbow
04 figh3 DEX>20, Weapon Training (bows) +1(WM)
05 figh4 Weapon Specialization:Longbow, Power Attack
06 barb2 Reckless Abandon +1, Savage Grapple(BP)
07 barb3 Pit Fighter(BP), Manyshot
08 barb4 DEX>21, Reckless Abandon +2, Good For What Ails You
09 figh5 Reliable Strike(WM), Deadly Aim
10 figh6 Weapon Guard +2(WM), Weapon Finesse
11 figh7 Weapon Training (bows) +2(WM), Combat Expertise
12 figh8 DEX>22, FEAT

Favored class bonuses: hp or skills with barb levels, +1 CMD with fighter levels.

Tactics: controlled rage (DEX) while using bow; switch to controlled rage (STR) when using sword. (Cute trick for facing rust monsters: Quickdraw sword and stow in Efficient Quiver since it can hold sharp objects; our bow, armor and buckler are non-metallic, so it wanders off.)

Favored class bonuses: hp or skills with barb levels, +1 CMD or hp with fighter levels.

* 500 Dusty Rose Prism Ioun (cracked) +1 init (competence)
* 750ea potion of Heroism (30min, +2 att, morale)
* 1,800 Efficient Quiver
* 2,000 Amulet of Natural Armor AC+1
* 3,600 Scabbard of Vigor (two)
* 4,000 Ring of Deflection AC+2
* 4,000 Pale Green Prism Ioun (cracked) +1 att (competence)
* 4,000 Pale Green Prism Ioun (cracked) +1 saves (competence)
* 4,150 Dusty Rose Prism Ioun (wayfinder, AC+1, resonate +2 CMB/CMD)
* 4,165 Buckler AC+2
* 8,380 +1/Furious elven curve blade
* 8,600 +1/Seeking STR+2 composite longbbow
* 9,000 Cloak of Resistance +3
* 10,000 Belt of Physical Might (DEX/CON) +2
* 10,000 Headband of Mental Prowess (INT/WIS) +2
* 12,000 Boots of Speed (+1 att, extra attack on full attack)
* 12,160 Boneless Leather AC+1 (CMD+5, EscArt+5, DR5:piercing/slashing)
* 15,000 Gloves of Dueling (Weapon Training +2, CMD +4)

Note: This is a "mostly within reason" wish-list which gently exceeds standard wealth-by-level (which can be exceeded by playing "up" in PFS). Realistic emphasis on cheaper items and defenses.

Pre-combat buff: consume potion of Heroism if no bard/Inspire.
Realistic pre-combat allied buff at 12th: Greater Magic Weapon +3 on arrows

Att bow: 12(BAB)+8(DEX)+1(WF)+4(WT)+2(reckless)+1(comp)+1(enh)+1(haste)+2(heroism) = +32 ... -2(RS)-4(Daim) = +26 ...full Hasted attack: +26/+26/+26/+21/+16

Dmg bow: d8+2(STR)+4(WT)+2(WS)+8(Daim)+3(enh) = ~23.5

1st,2nd,3rd arrows: (3x)[(.85)(23.5)+(.05)(.85)(23.5)(2)] = 85.9175
... Manyshot: .85(23.5) = 19.975
-5 iterative: .60(23.5)+(.05)(.60)(23.5)(2) = 15.51
-10 iterative: .35(23.5)+(.05)(.35)(23.5)(2) = 9.0475

Full Hasted attack arrows damage total: 130.45

Att ECB (from Scabbard of Vigor, drawn for 3rnds/+3): 12(BAB)+8(DEX)+2(reckless)+1(comp)+5(enh)+1(haste)+2(heroism) = +30 ... -4(PA on iteratives) ...full Hasted attack: +30/+30/+25/+20

Dmg ECB: d10+3(STR)+12(PA)+5(enh) = ~25.5

Two Hasted: 2x[(.95)(25.5)+(.15)(.95)(25.5)] = 55.7175
-5 iterative: .80(25.5)+(.05)(.80)(25.5) = 23.46
-10 iterative: .65(25.5)+(.05)(.65)(25.5) = 19.06125

Full Hasted attack sword damage total: 98.24


Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

I figured I'd chime in for once. I've often been curious as to how a "Dervish Dancer" fighter would work. One that's low strength, high dex. Here's what I've come up with.

Restrictions

  • Maximum spent on any single item is 27,500 gp (placing at +4 weapon out of reach).
  • No content allowed from Ultimate Combat (as I don't have the book yet).

DERVISH DANCER
Human Fighter 6 / Duelist 6

Ability Scores
STR 13 = 13 (3 points) + 1 (12th level up)
DEX 24 = 16 (10 points) + 2 (racial bonus) +2 (4th and 8th level up) + 4 (belt)
CON 14 = 14 (5 points)
INT 10 = 10 (0 points)
WIS 12 = 12 (2 points)
CHA 10 = 10 (0 points)

Feats
Human) Weapon Finesse
Level 1) Improved Initiative
Fighter 1) Power Attack
Fighter 2) Dervish Dance
Level 3) Weapon Focus
Fighter 4) Weapon Specialization
Level 5) Dodge
Fighter 6) Mobility
Level 7) Toughness
Level 9) Improved Critical
Level 11) Critical Focus

Saves and Defences
AC: 27
CMD: 30
Fort: +12
Reflex: +13
Will: +7

Calculations
AC: 27 = 10 + 3 (armor bonus) + 1 (armor enhancement bonus) + 7 (dex mod) + 2 (deflection bonus) + 2 (natural armour enhancement bonus) + 1 (canny defense)
CMD: 30 = 10 + 1 (strength mod) + 7 (dex mod) + 12 (BAB)
+3 miscellaneous to saving throws and CMD when concerning my scimitar
Fort: +12 = 8 (fighter) + 3 (con mod) + 2 (cloak)
Reflex: +13 = 4 (fighter) + 7 (dex mod) + 2 (cloak)
Will: +7 = 4 (fighter) + 1 (wis mod) + 2 (cloak)

Items

  • 21,000gp Adamantine Scimitar +3
  • 9,000 gp Leather Armour +3
  • 8,000 gp Ring of Protection +2
  • 8,000 gp Amulet of Natural Armour +2
  • 16,000 gp Belt of Incredible Dexterity +4
  • 15,000 gp Gloves of Dueling
  • 7,400 gp Bag of Holding Type III
  • 1,800 gp Efficient Quiver
  • 4,000 gp Cloak of Resistance +2
  • 11,000 gp on Disposables including Potions of Heroism and Wands of Cure Light
  • 9,600 gp on ordinary gear including a spring loaded wrist sheath, Masterwork Composite (2) Longbow and many types of arrows from blunted arrows to adamantine arrows

Combat Statistics
Attack: +22 = +12 (BAB) + 7 (dex mod) + 1 (weapon training) + 3 (weapon enhancement bonus) + 2 (gloves of duelling) – 4 (power attack) + 1 (weapon focus)
Damage: 1d6 + 7 (dex mod) + 1 (weapon training) + 3 (weapon enhancement bonus) + 2 (gloves of duelling) + 8 (power attack) + 2 (weapon specialization) + 6 (precise strike)

DPR for No Buffs:
First Hit = 0.73(32.5) + (0.87*0.3)(3*32.5) = 23.73 + 25.45 = 49.18
Second Hit = 0.57(32.5) + (0.7*0.3)(3*32.5) = 18.53 + 20.48 = 39.01
Third Hit = 0.4(32.5) + (0.53*0.3)(3*32.5) = 13 + 15.5 = 28.5
Total DPR = 116.69

DPR with Potion of Haste:
Prep Round
Swift action: Activate Spring Loaded Wrist Sheathe loaded with potion of haste.
Move action: Draw scimitar.
Standard action: Drink potion.

ROUND 1
5-foot step toward enemy. Full Round Attack.

First Hit = 0.77(32.5) + (0.9*0.3)(3*32.5) = 25.03 + 26.33 = 51.36
Second Hit = 0.6(32.5) + (0. 73*0.3)(3*32.5) = 19.5 + 21.35 = 40.85
Third Hit = 0.43(31.5) + (0.57*0.3)(3*31.5) = 13.55 + 16.16 = 29.71
Haste Hit = 0.77(32.5) + (0.9*0.3)(3*32.5) = 25.03 + 26.33 = 51.36


Total DPR = 173.28

ADVANTAGES

  • No buy downs required
  • With a +13 initiative modifier, I have a pretty damn good chance of going first. This means I can sacrifice my full round attack so I can maneuver into a flank for the rogue. I certainly don't have to though (and if everyone was selfish and refused to buff me, I'm probably going to be inclined not to bother ;))
  • By going first, I get to target the flat-footed AC, which means I autohit on anything but a 1 for my primary and haste attacks. I didn't take that into account with the above calculations though.
  • Healthy buffer for all the consumables you have to go through as you reach level 12.
  • Can bypass magical, piercing, cold iron, silver and adamantine DR all with the same weapon.
  • If a creature can be critted, they take the full 173 damage.
  • Have backup weapons incase I can't get into melee or need to bypass bludgeoning or slashing DR.

I'll probably revisit this build once I get Ultimate Combat to see what it can add to the build. If anyone has any comments I'd certainly be interested in hearing them. This is my first time at a damage based build so I'd be curious to see how I did.

As far as I'm aware everything in the build is straight from the core rulebook except for Dervish Dance (Inner Sea World Guide) and Gloves of Dueling (APG).

Liberty's Edge

Quote:
If anyone has any comments I'd certainly be interested in hearing them.

Observations: 1) I dislike even-numbered starting main stats (in PFS I prefer to have my stats "evened out" in the 4-8th range and 12+). 2) You'll find the urban barbarian archetype from UC highly interesting. 3) If Dodge and Mobility are important to your build, I would take them at low level and grab Spring Attack as well (which is why barb's +10 move is nice); Power Attack is just a feat that makes you miss at low-level, so it can be delayed. 4) A Duelist's INT+DEX modifiers cannot exceed his armor's maximum DEX bonus (not a problem with your INT 10 guy, but just saying). 5) Fighter is a great class...melded with something else. Pure fighters have garbage for skills (i.e., having the world's highest INIT is useless if you are constantly surprised because your Perception is behind-the-curve); you might as well have a 7 in INT or CHA if you're pure fighter. 6) Your saves are more important than your AC, so don't short-change the Cloak to afford those hideously expensive rings and amulets +2. 7) Discover the wonders of Ioun stones (really: everybody should -- Wayfinder resonate powers are an awesome double-dip feature). 8) I applaud your decision to avoid highly situational and expensive feat-chains. 9) Keen frees up a feat slot.

Try this:

Half-Elf - STR:12, DEX+17, CON:14, INT:12, WIS:12, CHA:12

traits: Berserker of the Society, Dangerously Curious
01 barb1 [urban] move+10, Weapon Finesse, Skill Focus:Perception
02 figh1 [weapon master] Dervish Dance
03 figh2 [weapon guard +1] Extra Rage, Weapon Focus:Scimitar
04 figh3 [weapon training +1], DEX>18
05 figh4 Power Attack, Weapon Specialization:Scimitar
06 barb2 [uncanny dodge] Reckless Abandon or Good For What Ails You
07 cavalier!

(At this point you're having so much fun that you don't want to be a Duelist; you have a grossly high attack bonus and do a lot of extra damage with a Keen/Furious weapon combo.)

* shuffle levels 2 through 5 to taste
* 17 rounds of rage per day
* controlled rage [DEX+4] from 1st to 5th, then controlled rage (DEX+2/STR+2] at 5th to accommodate Power Attack's requirements
* +5 to Perception plus Uncanny Dodge are far better than Improved Initiative without either
* skills: Perception, Use Magic Device, Escape Artist

Equipment: +1/Keen/Furious scimitar (get Furious first), ...pretty much all the same stuff as the Bowbarian above (since the builds are stated similar).

The Exchange

Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Campaign Setting, Card Game, Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber; Pathfinder Comics Subscriber

Since this is actually a PFS character that might eventually get to 12th level:

12th level gunslinger (pistolero)

Init +14; Senses Perception +23
Defenses
AC 37 touch 24, flat-footed 25 (+8 dexterity, +9 armor, +3 shield, +4 dodge, +1 natural, +1 deflection, +1 size)
hp 100 (12d10+24; 12 favored class)
Fort +13, Ref +23, Will +12
Offense
Speed 60 ft.
Ranged +1 reliable pistol and +1 reliable pistol +20/+20/+20/+15/+10//+20/+15/+10 (1d6+21+3d6 19-20/x4)

Statistics
Str 8 Dex 30 Con 12 Int 12 Wis 16 Cha 8
Starting Stats (before racial): 10/17/12/12/14/8
Base Atk +12; CMB +10; CMD 35
Traits Reactionary, Indomitable Faith (Irori)
Skills Acrobatics +23, Climb +2, Craft (alchemy) +5, Heal +7, Knowledge (engineering) +9, Knowledge (local) +16, Perception +23, Ride +12, Sleight of Hand +23, Survival +18, Swim +2 Armor Check -2

Items: (Total Spent 108,145)
+1 reliable pistol (8,300)
+1 reliable pistol (9,300)
celestial armor (22,400)
+2 buckler (4,165)
amulet of natural armor +1 (2,000)
ring of protection +1 (2,000)
belt of incredible dexterity +6 (36,000)
headband of wis +2 (4,000)
cloak of resistance +2 (4,000)
boots of speed (12,000)
eyes of the eagle (2,500)
potion of heroism (750)
potion of reduce person (50)
mwk longsword
100x bullet and powder
2x weapon cord

Feat Progression:
1-Point Blank Shot, Rapid Reload (Pistol) (Human), Gunsmith (Bonus)
3-Rapid Shot
4b-Precise Shot
5-Deadly Aim
7-Two Weapon Fighting
8b-Improved Critical (Pistol)
9-Improved Two-Weapon Fighting
11-Signature Deed (Up Close and Deadly)
12b-Greater Two Weapon Fighting

Buffs active:
heroism
reduce person
haste

5 foot step away (if needed simply take the AoO), only right hand weapon is in hand. Fire full attack with right weapon, reloading after each shot (with lightning reload + rapid reload, it is a free action). Drop the right weapon. Draw left weapon as swift action. Fire full secondary weapon reloading as necessary. Next round primary weapon is left handed weapon. Fire full action, while reloading, drop weapon, draw right handed weapon as swift action and fire / reload as necessary.

Damage is based off of a d6 die (small pistol) and 3d6 damage from Up Close and Deadly (Including the half of 3d6 damage on miss) on every attack.

Using Rapid Shot, haste, 3 main attacks, and 3 off-hand attacks: 8 total attacks.

1: .95(24.5+10.5)+.1*.95(73.5)+.05*5.25=40.495
2 40.495
3 40.495
4 40.495
5 .8(24.5+10.5)+.1*.8(73.5)+.2*5.25=34.93
6 40.495
7 40.495
8 34.93

Total DPR: 312.83


Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Mike Schneider wrote:
you might as well have a 7 in INT or CHA if you're pure fighter.

I'd like to keep the character playable. If I play Int 7 I immediately become a moron, and Cha 7 means I'm either ugly as all hell or have very little interpesonal skills (or both). Flavour matters to me, even when I'm just trying to boost damage.

Mike Schneider wrote:
7) Discover the wonders of Ioun stones (really: everybody should -- Wayfinder resonate powers are an awesome double-dip feature).
I deliberately chose not to have a wayfinder because this character is actually one I want to play, and it's quite likely I'll be playing him in a home game (where Wayfinders are ultra rare if you're not a member of the Pathfinder Society).
Mike Schneider wrote:
traits: Berserker of the Society, Dangerously Curious

Same reason for not having traits. I could probably select 1 trait and leave the other blank.

Mike Schneider wrote:
Half-Elf

In order to complement the dancing dervish flavour I've gone Human Qadiran (the nobility aren't exactly open to breeding elves and recognising the offspring).

Mike Schneider wrote:
3) If Dodge and Mobility are important to your build, I would take them at low level and grab Spring Attack as well (which is why barb's +10 move is nice);

I'm not sure why I took dodge and mobility. I think I was starting to run out of damage dealing feats (hence toughness).

Mike Schneider wrote:
6) Your saves are more important than your AC, so don't short-change the Cloak to afford those hideously expensive rings and amulets +2.

Good point. Also with outputting as much damage as possible, the enemies won't be around long enough to kill me, and spell-casters pose a much more dangerous issue for me.

Mike Schneider wrote:
STR:12

With strength 12 you're looking at an encumberance level of 43 lbs in order to make sure you maintain a light load. Efficient Quiver is 2 lbs (holds ALL your weapons except when in combat), Belt is 1 lb, Bag of Holding Type III is 35 lbs, Cloak is 1 lb, Spring Loaded Wrist Sheath is 1 lb, Adamantine Scimitar is 4 lbs. All up you've got 44 lbs. You would either have to sacrifice the wrist sheath (which means no more swift action pull out potion), in which case you're probably looking at quick draw as a feat. Which could certainly be feasible. I like the rest of the stats as they increase skills and saves and flavour.

Otherwise if you carry 44 lbs your max dex bonus to armour becomes +3 and you lose 10 feet off your speed.

Mike Schneider wrote:
2) You'll find the urban barbarian archetype from UC highly interesting.

I'll definitely have a gander at it.

Mike Schneider wrote:
you have a grossly high attack bonus and do a lot of extra damage with a Keen/Furious weapon combo.)

Assuming I'm removing some of my enhancement bonuses to gain the keen/furious properties so I'll end up with +1 Adamantine Scimitar, I then lose the ability to deal cold iron and silver. So then i'm either using masterwork scimitars of each material so I can overcome that DR, or I'm just not overcoming the DR, lessening the amount of damage I'm outputting. I'm trying to increase my DPR in all situations, not situations where I don't happen to be facing devils.

Thanks for the feedback :) Like I said I'm new at this, so I can use the help. I'll definitely revise the build once I get my hands on Ultimate Combat.

I will repost the character in my next post with no changes, as I calculated the DPR wrong. My new DPR is 140.73, which is 33 less than I originally thought. That said, I'm managing to keep up with an archer which makes me happy (not an absolutely maxed to the hilt archer, but still an archer nonetheless).

I'll definitely be back once I've got Ultimate Combat.


Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

DERVISH DANCER
Human Fighter 6 / Duelist 6

Ability Scores
STR 13 = 13 (3 points) + 1 (12th level up)
DEX 24 = 16 (10 points) + 2 (racial bonus) +2 (4th and 8th level up) + 4 (belt)
CON 14 = 14 (5 points)
INT 10 = 10 (0 points)
WIS 12 = 12 (2 points)
CHA 10 = 10 (0 points)

Feats
Human) Weapon Finesse
Level 1) Improved Initiative
Fighter 1) Power Attack
Fighter 2) Dervish Dance
Level 3) Weapon Focus
Fighter 4) Weapon Specialization
Level 5) Dodge
Fighter 6) Mobility
Level 7) Toughness
Level 9) Improved Critical
Level 11) Critical Focus

Saves and Defences
AC: 27
CMD: 30
Fort: +12
Reflex: +13
Will: +7

Calculations
AC: 27 = 10 + 3 (armor bonus) + 1 (armor enhancement bonus) + 7 (dex mod) + 2 (deflection bonus) + 2 (natural armour enhancement bonus) + 1 (canny defense)
CMD: 30 = 10 + 1 (strength mod) + 7 (dex mod) + 12 (BAB)
+3 miscellaneous to saving throws and CMD when concerning my scimitar
Fort: +12 = 8 (fighter) + 3 (con mod) + 2 (cloak)
Reflex: +13 = 4 (fighter) + 7 (dex mod) + 2 (cloak)
Will: +7 = 4 (fighter) + 1 (wis mod) + 2 (cloak)

Items

  • 21,000gp Adamantine Scimitar +3
  • 9,000 gp Leather Armour +3
  • 8,000 gp Ring of Protection +2
  • 8,000 gp Amulet of Natural Armour +2
  • 16,000 gp Belt of Incredible Dexterity +4
  • 15,000 gp Gloves of Dueling
  • 7,400 gp Bag of Holding Type III
  • 1,800 gp Efficient Quiver
  • 4,000 gp Cloak of Resistance +2
  • 11,000 gp on Disposables including Potions of Heroism and Wands of Cure Light
  • 9,600 gp on ordinary gear including a spring loaded wrist sheath, Masterwork Composite (2) Longbow and many types of arrows from blunted arrows to adamantine arrows

Combat Statistics
Attack: +22 = +12 (BAB) + 7 (dex mod) + 1 (weapon training) + 3 (weapon enhancement bonus) + 2 (gloves of duelling) – 4 (power attack) + 1 (weapon focus)
Damage: 1d6 + 7 (dex mod) + 1 (weapon training) + 3 (weapon enhancement bonus) + 2 (gloves of duelling) + 8 (power attack) + 2 (weapon specialization) + 6 (precise strike)

DPR with Potion of Haste
Attack: +23/+18/+13/+23
Damage: 1d6+29/1d6+29/1d6+29/1d6+29

Prep Round
Swift action: Activate Spring Loaded Wrist Sheathe loaded with potion of haste.
Move action: Draw scimitar.
Standard action: Drink potion.

ROUND 1
5-foot step toward enemy. Full Round Attack.

First Hit = 0.65(32.5) + (0.85*0.3)(3*32.5) = 21.13 + 24.86 = 45.99
Second Hit = 0.4(32.5) + (0. 6*0.3)(3*32.5) = 13 + 17.55 = 30.55
Third Hit = 0.2(32.5) + (0.4*0.3)(3*32.5) = 6.5 + 11.7 = 18.2
Haste Hit = 0.65(32.5) + (0.85*0.3)(3*32.5) = 21.13 + 24.86 = 45.99

Total DPR = 140.73

Dark Archive

Alizor wrote:

5 foot step away (if needed simply take the AoO), only right hand weapon is in hand. Fire full attack with right weapon, reloading after each shot (with lightning reload + rapid reload, it is a free action). Drop the...

Whether Lightning Reload is a Free Action or a Swift Action, you can still only use Lightning Reload once per round.

Liberty's Edge

Quote:

...With strength 12 you're looking at an encumberance level of...

...I then lose the ability to deal cold iron and silver....

1) An urban barbarian has an ability called "controlled rage", and he can split his bonus between two physical stats (i.e., pumping STR by +2 and DEX by +2, etc). 2) a Furious weapon counts as +2 enhancement higher when held by a raging character; a +1/keen/furious weapon is effectively a +5 weapon in the hands of a barbarian, and he laughs off Shatterspikes.

Yeah: barbarians got good.


Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Mike Schneider wrote:
1) An urban barbarian has an ability called "controlled rage", and he can split his bonus between two physical stats (i.e., pumping STR by +2 and DEX by +2, etc).

Aaah, okay.

Mike Schneider wrote:
2) a Furious weapon counts as +2 enhancement higher when held by a raging character; a +1/keen/furious weapon is effectively a +5 weapon in the hands of a barbarian, and he laughs off Shatterspikes.

I should have known that. I see how it becomes a +3, but how are you getting a +5?

Also another blow into my character. For some reason I was treating a scimitar as a x4 crit weapon. Can you see any reason I would have justifiably been able to do that?

His DPR goes down significantly as you would expect.

Also does furious focus and haste work with each other? Or do I lose furious focus on the haste attack?

Liberty's Edge

John Lynch 106 wrote:
Mike Schneider wrote:
2) a Furious weapon counts as +2 enhancement higher when held by a raging character; a +1/keen/furious weapon is effectively a +5 weapon in the hands of a barbarian, and he laughs off Shatterspikes.
I should have known that. I see how it becomes a +3, but how are you getting a +5?
A +1/Keen/Furious weapon is a +3-rated magical weapon which because a +5-rated magical weapon in the hands of a raging barbarian -- which has significance for whether or not it can be sundered by the enemy. (Note that the same weapon does not drop to +2 otherwise; the Furious is just dormant if the wielder is not raging.)
Quote:
Also another blow into my character. For some reason I was treating a scimitar as a x4 crit weapon. Can you see any reason I would have justifiably been able to do that?
Jeez... I hope not. 15-20/x4 crits...are you kiddin' me??? Ack.
Quote:
Also does furious focus and haste work with each other? Or do I lose furious focus on the haste attack?

Only if, for some reason, you stop raging when you're Hasted.


Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Mike Schneider wrote:
Only if, for some reason, you stop raging when you're Hasted.

furious focus is a feat that let's you ignore the penalty for power attack for your first attack. Haste gives you an extra attack at full bab plus any appropriate modifiers.

I'm thinking that means furious focus doesn't work for haste and so I take the -4, but I wasn't sure.

The Exchange

Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Campaign Setting, Card Game, Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber; Pathfinder Comics Subscriber
Mergy wrote:
Alizor wrote:

5 foot step away (if needed simply take the AoO), only right hand weapon is in hand. Fire full attack with right weapon, reloading after each shot (with lightning reload + rapid reload, it is a free action). Drop the...

Whether Lightning Reload is a Free Action or a Swift Action, you can still only use Lightning Reload once per round.

I've talked with multiple people and we all believe that the once / round is only referring to the swift action portion of lightning reload. As these would most likely be my DMs, that's how I accounted for it.

However even if that isn't true, the build still works, albeit with a 5% chance of misfire each attack (alchemical cartridge + rapid reload). With grit available to be used in a shirt combat situation I can simply use one grit per addition roll of a 1 to cause the weapon not to explode.


A +1/keen/furious focus weapon does not act as a +5 weapon for rage. It acts as a +3. +1 actual bonus, +2 while raging = +3. It is currently equivalent to a +3 weapon for pricing and overall power only.

Dark Archive

Alizor wrote:
Mergy wrote:
Alizor wrote:

5 foot step away (if needed simply take the AoO), only right hand weapon is in hand. Fire full attack with right weapon, reloading after each shot (with lightning reload + rapid reload, it is a free action). Drop the...

Whether Lightning Reload is a Free Action or a Swift Action, you can still only use Lightning Reload once per round.

I've talked with multiple people and we all believe that the once / round is only referring to the swift action portion of lightning reload. As these would most likely be my DMs, that's how I accounted for it.

However even if that isn't true, the build still works, albeit with a 5% chance of misfire each attack (alchemical cartridge + rapid reload). With grit available to be used in a shirt combat situation I can simply use one grit per addition roll of a 1 to cause the weapon not to explode.

That's fine. As long as you have a contingency (alchemical rounds and grit works great) for the DMs that don't agree with your interpretation! :)

Liberty's Edge

Godwyn wrote:
A +1/keen/furious focus weapon does not act as a +5 weapon for rage. It acts as a +3. +1 actual bonus, +2 while raging = +3. It is currently equivalent to a +3 weapon for pricing and overall power only.

We're both wrong -- a +1/Furious weapon in the hands of someone enraged has a +3 enhancement bonus as per an actual +3 enhancement weapon for purposes such as sunder.

Liberty's Edge

Another solution is to draw that Furious weapon from a Scabbard of Vigor (which are cheap enough that you can buy three or four and keep them in your haversack until needed).

Liberty's Edge

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With a new broken archetype from Ultimate Combat, the ultimate switch-hitter is now realized (until nerfed):

Human: STR:14, DEX+19, CON:12, INT:12, WIS:12, CHA:07
Traits: whatever you makes you happy

01 rangr1 01 Point Blank Shot, Rapid Shot
02 sohei1 01 [Init+2}[Devoted Guardian][Mounted Combat]
03 sohei2 02 [Evasion][Mounted Archery], Weapon Finesse

At this point, nothing appears out of the ordinary: you're a monk archetype multiclassed with ranger, and appear to be mixing ranged multi-attack with melee flurry while riding a warhorse. You shrug when the GM asks why you didn't go with Zen Archer, or just take 2nd level ranger for Archery style. Your GM thinks you'll be suboptimal when your warhorse runs out of gas at higher levels.

04 sohei3 03 DEX>20, [Maneuver Training][Still Mind], (buy Dex Gloves)
05 sohei4 04 [AC+1][Init+2][Ki Weapon], Deadly Aim, (buy Wisdom headband)
06 sohei5 04 [High Jump]
07 sohei6 05 [Init+3][Weapon Training:Bows][Improved Trip], Quick Draw

At this point, your archery suddenly and drastically accelerates in power to six flurry/rapid/Ki-bonus arrows per full-attack; and your GM says you can't use Rapid Shot while Flurrying with a bow. You remind him that you're a Sohei, not a Zen Archer subject to those limitations.

Your GM's bad guys know the jig is up at range, so they try to fight in close. You use kamas to trip them adjacent to your warhorse (which needs help hitting at this level), Bad guys attack the horse...and you making Mounted Combat ride checks to negate (your Ride score is stellar because it's DEX-based).

GM consoles himself by noting that your damage per arrow is still minimal, and that you are lousy shooting into melee.

08 rangr2 06 [Precise Shot], buy Gloves of Dueling

Well...you used to be lousy. Now you're awesome.

GM notes your horse is pretty useless at this point, meaning you're starting to suck in melee.

09 fight1 07 [Weapon Master:Wakizashi], EWP:Wakisashi, Manyshot
10 fight2 08 [Weapon Guard+1], Piranha Strike
11 fight3 09 [Weapon Training+1:Wakizashi]

Surprise! You are now Flurrying with a pair of Agile/Keen wakizashis as well as your bow.

12 fight4 10 Critical Focus

"Go ahead: try to swallow-me-whole now," you taunt while riding an ally's Summoned creature. "I'll Ginsu it from the inside-out!"

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