I haven't checked to see if anyone is running afoul of this, but note that unarmed strikes and natural weapon attacks are not in the same fighter group for Weapon Training purposes.
Not that I've used it, but the Natural group includes both. Unarmed Strike is in that group and also in the Close group, and in the Monk group too..
Natural
unarmed strike and all natural weapons, such as bite, claw, gore, tail, and wing
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OK, that has to take the cake for the dumbest-looking monster (which has mainly done a decent job fixing D&D's old-school stupid artwork). --How does a normally humanoid fighter, trained with boots-on-the-ground, manage to function jiggling on a tail like that? Do both heads have a brain? Could you cast two spells at once because you have two heads, two brains, and two mouths? ...In a home game, I'd saddle the player with *severe* penalties trying to do his normal humanoid sword-fighting techniques while dangling out, maybe starting him off at -10 to everything and gradually getting slowly better as continues dabbling in the monstrous form for short periods of spell-duration time.
BUT this is a case of where PFS will permit you to get away with something thoroughly ridiculous, and the arena crowd is going wild, so it's in.)
= = = =
BTW, how are you getting the Elven Curve Blade to 2d6?
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Readied Attack
To hit : 11 BAB + 15 Strength +3 (enhancement) + 1 Competence + 2 Spirit Bonus + 3 Weapon Training + 2 (weapon Focus) -3 (Power Attack) +2 (Rage) +1 (Haste)= +37
Damage : 2d6 + 30 (Strength, overhand chop) +3 (Weapon Training) + (4 Spirit Bonus) + 3 (enhancement) + 9 (Power Attack) + 2 (Weapon specialization)+2 (Rage) +1 (Trait) = 2d6+ 54.
AoO
To hit : 11 BAB + 15 Strength +3 (enhancement) + 1 Competence + 2 Spirit Bonus + 3 Weapon Training + 2 (weapon Focus) -3 (Power Attack) +2 (Rage) +1 (Haste)= +37
Damage : 2d6 + 22 (Strength) +3 (Weapon Training) + 4 (Spirit Bonus) + 3 (enhancement) + 9 (Power Attack) + 2 (Weapon specialization)+2 (Rage) +1 (Trait) = 2d6+ 46.Opportune Parry
To hit : 11 BAB + 15 Strength +3 (enhancement) + 1 Competence + 2 Spirit Bonus + 3 Weapon Training + 2 (weapon Focus) -3 (Power Attack) +2 (Rage) +1 (Haste)= +37
Damage : Triggers Riposte by forcing a miss! Probability of success is 95%Riposte ~95% probable to happen
To hit : 11 BAB + 15 Strength +3 (enhancement) + 1 Competence + 2 Spirit Bonus + 3 Weapon Training + 2 (weapon Focus) -3 (Power Attack) +2 (Rage) +1 (Haste)= +37
Damage : 2d6 + 22 (Strength) +3 (Weapon Training) + 4 (Spirit Bonus) + 3 (enhancement) + 9 (Power Attack) + 2 (Weapon specialization)+2 (Rage) +1 (Trait) = 2d6+ 46.Fortuitous Attack (this is 95% probable to occur)
To hit : 11 BAB + 15 Strength +3 (enhancement) + 1 Competence + 2 Spirit Bonus + 3 Weapon Training + 2 (weapon Focus) -3 (Power Attack) +2 (Rage) +1 (Haste)= +37
While your odds of hitting are very high, they're not quite that high.
First, the Parry/Ripost/Fortuitous line-up is a daisy-chain in which each is dependent upon the former being successful, and a "1" anywhere along spoils the rest. (So you're not 95% consistently because the odds of a "1" accumulate.)
Secondly, you might not be able to apply Fortuitous in this instance because of some *very sneaky* Paizo wording in OP&R:
"Opportune Parry and Riposte (Ex): At 1st level, when an opponent makes a melee attack against the swashbuckler, she can spend 1 panache point and expend a use of an attack of opportunity to attempt to parry that attack. The swashbuckler makes an attack roll as if she were making an attack of opportunity
...I have *no* idea why they're wording it that way (i.e., instead of simply saying you take an attack of opportunity) unless they are deliberately trying to screw you out of a daisy-chain followup (such as Fortuitous or anything else along those lines). Sounds like a question for Rules.....
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OK, that has to take the cake for the dumbest-looking monster (which has mainly done a decent job fixing D&D's old-school stupid artwork). --How does a normally humanoid fighter, trained with boots-on-the-ground, manage to function jiggling on a tail like that? Do both heads have a brain? Could you cast two spells at once because you have two heads, two brains, and two mouths? ...In a home game, I'd saddle the player with *severe* penalties trying to do his normal humanoid sword-fighting techniques while dangling out, maybe starting him off at -10 to everything and gradually getting slowly better as continues dabbling in the monstrous form for short periods of spell-duration time.
BUT this is a case of where PFS will permit you to get away with something thoroughly ridiculous, and the arena crowd is going wild, so it's in.)
= = = =
BTW, how are you getting the Elven Curve Blade to 2d6?
I think he just read the resizing FAQ incorrectly. It should be 2d8. I was actually going to suggest that he should change to a Falcata, even though you average 2 less from the damage dice difference, you gain roughly +5 from increased critical damage. There are a few other problems with the build though. First, you can't be under the effect of multiple instances of rage, including bloodrage, the rage spell, or a skalds raging song. Second, there's a -1 size penalty to attack that seems to be missing. Third is that you only get one attack of opportunity, which means both fortuitous and opportune parry and riposte don't work, because you don't have the attacks or opportunity to use them.
As for Mike's comment, I agree, a viouvre being a monstrous humanoid is really stupid, and in a home game would likely change is to a different monster type, probably magical beast. But in PFS, if someone wanted to use it, I'd just shrug my shoulders and keep rolling, cause there's no reason mechanically why it isn't allowed.
Aside from the Falcata thing, it's probably best to just take Unbarb and swashbuckler and trade it for fighter levels to get the next weapon training. Take Combat Reflexes and trade the plume of panache in, and you should have enough for a deep red sphere ioun stone. That way, you get the fortuitous attack. After that, not really sure what would be best for the feats though.
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]While your odds of hitting are very high, they're not quite that high.
First, the Parry/Ripost/Fortuitous line-up is a daisy-chain in which each is dependent upon the former being successful, and a "1" anywhere along spoils the rest. (So you're not 95% consistently because the odds of a "1" accumulate.)
Secondly, you might not be able to apply Fortuitous in this instance because of some *very sneaky* Paizo wording in OP&R:
"Opportune Parry and Riposte (Ex): At 1st level, when an opponent makes a melee attack against the swashbuckler, she can spend 1 panache point and expend a use of an attack of opportunity to attempt to parry that attack. The swashbuckler makes an attack roll as if she were making an attack of opportunity...I have *no* idea why they're wording it that way (i.e., instead of simply saying you take an attack of opportunity) unless they are deliberately trying to screw you out of a daisy-chain followup (such as Fortuitous or anything else along those lines). Sounds like a question for Rules.....
He just has the fortuitous attack in the wrong spot under damage. If you go the the fight section, he's only triggering the fortuitous off the attack of opportunity from movement, not the opportune parry and riposte. You're right that you aren't actually making an attack of opportunity with opportune parry and riposte though, just using one up to perform the action. I'm assuming fortuitous is exactly the reason why it's written that way, to avoid unintentional interactions with attacks of opportunity.
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Okay, so finally got to finish the strength based build to replace the halfling. So, I could have sworn that it was officially stated somewhere that a one handed weapon wielded in two hands satisfied the two handed fighter archetype, but all I could find was a statement from the writer saying he would allow it. Since it's technically a gray area, I went Nodachi instead. This build also assumes we're allowed pets, as per the PFS rules.
Big green guy with a sword
str 17 + 2 racial + 3 level + 6 enhancement + 4 alchemical + 8 morale + 4 size = 44
dex 10
con 10
int 14
wis 07
cha 14
Traits : Mivoni Duelist, Accelerated Drinker
Skills : 17 UMD, Handle Animal 17, rest irrelevant
1 Bloodrager : Elemental Bloodline, Elemental Strikes, Bloodrage, Bonus feat
2 Brawler : Brawler's Cunning, Mutagen, Martial Training, Unarmed Strike
3 Medium : Knacks, Spirit, Spirit Bonus +1, Spirit Power (Lesser), Spirit Surge 1d6
4 Fighter : Bonus Feat
5 Fighter : Bonus Feat, Shattering Strike
6 Fighter : Overhand Chop
7 Fighter : Bonus Feat
8 Fighter : Weapon Training 1 (polearm)
9 Fighter : Bonus Feat
10 Fighter : Backswing
11 Fighter : Bonus Feat,
12 Fighter : Weapon Training 2, Advanced Weapon Training (Knockout Training)
Feats :
1 Amplified Rage
1 Improved Bull Rush (bloodrager bonus feat)
3 Spirit Focus (Champion)
4 Weapon focus (Nodachi)
5 Warleader's rage, Power Attack
7 Weapon Specialization (Nodachi), Rhino Charge
9 Greater Weapon Focus (Nodachi), Advanced Weapon Training (Fighter Tactics)
11 Improved Critical (Nodachi), Martial Focus (polearms)
Equipment :
Belt of Strength +6 36 000
Boots of Speed 12 000
Gloves of Dueling 15 000
+1 vicious, shocking nodachi 18 360
vicious shocking amulet of might fists 16 000
Cracked Pale Green Prism Ioun Stone 4 000
Helm of the Mammoth Lord 8 500
Wand Key Ring (monst. phys.) 3 000
Potion of Heroism 750
Scroll of Monstrous Physique II 700
Ram (combat Trained) 50
104 360
To Hit :
11 BAB, 17 strength, -1 size, 2 weapon focus, 1 haste, 4 weapon training, 2 spirit, 1 competence, 2 morale, 2 charge, 3/2 enhancement, -3 power attack
Nodachi are +41/36/31 on charge, +39/34/29 regular attack
Natural Attack are +29 on charge, +27 regular turn
Damage :
34(25)/8 strength, 2 weapon specialization, 8 weapon training, 4 spirit, 3/2 enhancement, 9/3 power attack, 1 martial focus, 1 trait, 3.5 shock, 3.5 acid, 9 weapon damage nodachi, 4.5 gore, 5 bite, 4.5 hooves
Nodachi 78(69) damage, 71(62) on crit
29.5 on gore/hooves, 22.5 on crit
30 on bite, 23 on crit
Monster's turn it moves in and triggers charge. Because of Monstrous Physique we get to pounce on a charge. 4 nodachi attacks, a bite, a gore and 2 hooves on pounce, nodachi attack are dealing non lethal to gain extra damage from knockout training. Also note, because of warleaders rage, amplified rage still applies. Monster attacks us.
Back to our turn, we once again swift action activate our elemental strikes ability and then full attack.
Nodachi on Pounce 2.85 x 78 + (2.85 x .3 x 71) = 283
Bite on pounce .95 x 30 + (.95 x .05 x 23) = 29.59
gore/hooves on pounce 2.85 x 29.5 + (2.85 x .05 x 22.5) = 87.28
First Nodachi attack .95 x 69 + (.95 x .3 x 62) = 83.22
Nodachi on regular round 2.85 x 78 + (2.85 x .3 x 71) = 283
Bite on regular round .85 x 30 + (.85 x .05 x 23) = 26.48
gore/hooves on regular round 2.55 x 29.5 + (2.55 x .05 x 22.5) = 78.09
Total = 953.88
Also, because I just noticed Mike's post, that's just a reminder. Every polymorph spell that doesn't cause your equipment to meld with your body causes your equipment to resize to your new size. It's in the magic section of the core rulebook with stuff like you getting all the new forms natural attacks.
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(*sigh* ... I was worried something like this might happen when I set consumable price limit to 750gp because I wanted to see the interplay of Haste. In retrospect, if I'd wanted that, I should have just said that everybody gets it for free.)
= = = = =
Alright, here's what I'm going to do: For the arena's amusement, I will let this continue until someone reaches 1,000 -- at which point the contest will 'end' with the announcement that Form of 'Giant Monster': Wonder Twin Powers 'Activate' is LOLbroke given that it's fully twice as destructive as any other viable technique seen thus far.
The Challenge will then reboot with the following alterations: [Suggestion Box is currently open]
It'd be interesting if there were a couple of scenarios people could choose from. I know it wouldn't be as standardized, but you could set it up as a best in show and then best overall.
One where the monster makes multiple attacks to facilitate builds that benefit from being attacked (snake style)
One where the enemy is flying or otherwise out of typical reach.
One where there are multiple enemies perhaps? Either make it a race to kill the 5 of them or some such?
Just a thought.
Okay, so finally got to finish the strength based build to replace the halfling. So, I could have sworn that it was officially stated somewhere that a one handed weapon wielded in two hands satisfied the two handed fighter archetype, but all I could find was a statement from the writer saying he would allow it. Since it's technically a gray area, I went Nodachi instead. This build also assumes we're allowed pets, as per the PFS rules.
Big green guy with a sword
** spoiler omitted **...
That's impressive but I don't see how you can benefit from Amplified Rage and Warleader's Rage in this build. The Ram cannot rage on its own, so even if you share the Teamwork Feat, the prerequisite "Whenever you are raging and adjacent to a raging ally[...]" is not met... or am I missing something here?
You probably could make it work by adding the Wildchild archetype to your brawler level and take a wolverine animal companion. it gets 6 rds of Rage and qualifies for Amplified Rage.
Awesome thread guys, your builds are really fun to read, keep it up!
Monstrous Physique does not enlarge your weapons or other equipment (that's a special gimmick of Enlarge Person).
If your new form does not cause your equipment to meld into your form, the equipment resizes to match your new size.
So yes, Monstrous Physique does enlarge your weapons and other equipment to match your new size.
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Okay, yeah. I need to stop doing these really late at night. The vicious was supposed to be furious, I changed ideas half way through and I guess I forgot to change it in the notepad I'm using to create builds. Figured I'd probably end up knocking myself unconscious with vicious, so that wasn't a great option. Also forgot about the rage thing while changing between Eldritch Guardian, and two handed fighter. So Wild Child it is I guess. I mean, you can buy a wolverine or badger, but without directing it I don't know how you could guarantee rage.
So, without rewriting everything, taking wild child for the badger animal companion, free action directing him, and using a potion of long arm for an attack of opportunity instead of heroism, damage looks like this:
Nodachi on Pounce 2.85 x 78 + (2.85 x .3 x 71) = 283
Bite on pounce .85 x 30 + (.85 x .05 x 23) = 26.47
gore/hooves on pounce 2.55 x 29.5 + (2.55 x .05 x 22.5) = 78.09
Attack of opportunity .95 x 69 + (.95 x .3 x 62) = 83.22
First Nodachi attack .95 x 69 + (.95 x .3 x 62) = 83.22
Nodachi on regular round 2.75 x 78 + (2.75 x .3 x 71) = 274.24
Bite on regular round .75 x 30 + (.75 x .05 x 23) = 23.36
gore/hooves on regular round 2.25 x 29.5 + (2.25 x .05 x 22.5) = 68.90
Total = 1003.72
Outside of setting up a multi fight challenge, not too sure what to change though. The ability to nova on most classes is pretty strong in pathfinder. Keeping it up for longer is a much harder task.
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It'd be interesting if there were a couple of scenarios people could choose from. I know it wouldn't be as standardized, but you could set it up as a best in show and then best overall.The reason I had it set up as it is presently is because I specifically wanted it to represent the most dangerous kind of encounter, which is one in which the monster goes first and it's already up in your face. DPR contests elsewhere typically let you buff to the 9s and then unload everything including the kitchen sink with a ridiculous percentage of WBL sunk sunk into consumables.
One where the monster makes multiple attacks to facilitate builds that benefit from being attacked (snake style)My other intent was to portray the problems faced by swift-action reliant mechanisms. If swift-novas always get their bennies, then they're over-weighted.
One where the enemy is flying or otherwise out of typical reach. One where there are multiple enemies perhaps? Either make it a race to kill the 5 of them or some such?
Then everyone activates their flying gizmos, then same as before...or more likely it's just a mook-shooting archery contest, and there's plenty of those already. In any event, the number of moving-parts increases exponentially, and guys with Cleave will pester as to how close things are to each other, etc.
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So, without rewriting everything, taking wild child for the badger animal companion, free action directing him, and using a potion of long arm for an attack of opportunity instead of heroism, damage looks like this: ** spoiler omitted ** So we just barely crack 1000, but 1004 average damage should be enough to put the original set up for the challenge to bed.I've a feeling we're only scratching the surface of polymorph monster, so... Good, and *done*. On to the reboot.
Outside of setting up a multi fight challenge, not too sure what to change though. The ability to nova on most classes is pretty strong in pathfinder.
While you can legally do it for the present, I doubt you could afford it even in cash-rich PFS, where even at 12th (and if you've never had to pony cash for Raise Dead) 3000gp dedicated for use activating 700gp scrolls is an out-of-reach extravagance. But banning the key doesn't really solve the problem because it's easy to retool the build for slightly lower STR in order to have INT 14 in bloodrager to trigger without UMD (which is why I'm not even bothering to check and see the key's +10 gets you to the DC27 check to activate the scroll).
= = = =
For Mike: Suggestion #1: No polymorph effects except enlarge person...
You know... I think I'm going to go with that. It satisfies K.I.S.S. and doesn't rely on me lowering consumable limits or starting an item ban-fest.
I'll permit Righteous Might and similar resizings so long as the PC remains in the same form at the end the process and aren't gaining six attacks and pounce. Mutagens are OK.
Suggestion #2: You and the opponent start on opposite sides of a circular 60" diameter arena (flat flagstones, no terrain), behind indestructible transparent gates. After 1 round, the gates open. As you can see each other but cannot attack, there is no surprise round, but there is one round for buffing/starting styles, etc. Opponent wins initiative with a natural 20+X, he closes as previous and attacks...
That's overly complicated and crafted solely to enable visual-confirmation-dependent builds to activate goodies like Smite in the prep round. So, no. You hear the sickening sound of a trap going off, and know you're screwed in approximately six seconds. Get ready. Maybe they pop out of the wall or floor, or are dim'd in. You don't know until it happens.
Note that the ongoing contest already granted the contestant the "freebie" of not being surprised (something that is most certainly not a given in actual fights, especially in builds that don't have Uncanny Dodge and end up being Flat-Footed because Paizo devs are lawful-evil fiends for whom the tears of fallen munchkins are delicious gravy. (That's the reason every seemingly overpowered melee archetype forfeits a grade of armor proficiency and/or Uncanny Dodge: they're long-term traps.)
(ps. Mike is this close by the opponent a charge? A brace weapon wants to know...)
Not saying it was or wasn't. But it's easy enough to add as a addendum to your damage total since Brace activates like a x2 crit (merely doubling a number you've already calculated). Note that bracing is a readied action.
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Another suggestion for Mike: The monster does X dmg when it attacks. You must remain conscious after the end of the fight (and all buffs of less than 10 min/lvl duration have worn off)...
In keeping with the original theme that the monster was supposed to be tough, here's what we'll do:
2nd round (after an opponent turn in which none of your AoOs or readied-actions triggered or connected for one reason or another), you find yourself in the following predicament at the beginning of the next round:
A monster is sitting on top of you, and you feel its jaws beginning to crush the life from you. Armor creaks and pops as serrated teeth ratchet and rend. Barely conscious, you are dimly aware that you still hold your weapon.
-- You are prone, pinned, shaken, sickened, staggered, and at 0hp.
Do the best you can.
Suppose you have a familiar, animal companion, eidolon or whatever - what state is it in on round 2? The same as you or just fine?
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A few more alterations:
* The monster is immune to nonlethal.
* In keeping with the "Your allies are 'selfish'; no one buffs you" existing condition, I'm ruling that tactician feats and stuff like shared and amplified rage (etc) don't work in this situation, save for the sole exception that you possess a fully-leveled animal-companion or mount. (Anything weaker the monsters had for lunch.)
* Companions are no longer adjacent to you or within their 5' step of reaching the monster in Round2 but are within a move-action of being so positioned (note that this may provoke an AoO from the monster, which hits AC35, and for the purposes of round2 I'm declaring that if it AoOs your companion, they cannot reach your side).
What's with the nerf to nonlethal damage and animal companion users? If you use your companion as a mount, you need a full round to move to it and get on it?
If anything, I'd nerf the use of consumables. Damage shown in this thread should be something you can consistently pull off, not something you can do if you buy a scroll for each fight, IMHO.
But then again, I guess I just have a problem with spending money on singular battles.
I have to say I don't understand the animal companion and familiar nerfs.
The monster had your familiar for lunch when you can't even see the monster?
What was your familiar doing so far out of your eye line? Why is you animal companion so far from you at the start of the fight?
What is the point of these nerfs?
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What's with the nerf to nonlethal damage
Honestly, it's just a kludge because otherwise every single build is going to start including the same exploit for doubling weapon-training bonus. (At 12th, regeneration becomes increasingly common anyway, meaning non-lethal is a poor tactic in actual fighting. If you can dish it out all in a single strike, like a sapmaster, then I suppose it would be viable.)
I might also give the monster some DR. (Probably DR:5/-)
But the Suggestion Box is still open.
I have to say I don't understand the animal companion and familiar nerfs.
Considering that no one has actually submitted a build with an AC yet, I'm not sure from whence the objection. In any event, getting knocked or dragged out of the saddle (or some such) is a problem one could face.
The purpose of Round2 isn't to give you a whole 'nother full-attack. It's just to see if the same nova builds that trounced Round1 are able to do anything when flat on their can mostly dead.
The monster had your familiar for lunch when you can't even see the monster?
It's never been stipulated that there's only one monster in the encounter. For the contest's purposes, you've just had your hands full with the one attacking you. The monster sitting on you in Round2 isn't necessarily the same one.
= = = = =
Put yourselves in the frame of mind that this is not a totally accurate battle simulator, but rather instead the ending of 'Berserk'.
Do the best you can. Acquit yourselves well, for the gods may be watching.
I'm not really worried about how the encounter effects my builds, I'm not making any. I'm not very good at squeezing damage out of martial, I just don't understand why certain builds are being favored by hampering others.
I don't mind post some functioning and perhaps closer to reality less focused on DPS builds just to see how they compare to these knife edge builds. Like I did with the lamp lighter. Not that we actually know his damage score xD.
I can maybe half see the none lethal issue, I can't really see the point of the DR or hampering companion builds though.
If you want to compare builds why make life more difficult for certain ones? The fact that no-one has made one is more of an argument not to nerf, surely? Why nerf something before even seeing it? If it becomes a problem surely then would be the time to change it, as you have done with the polymorph ruling.
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What have I nerfed? (aside from Wonder Twin Powers Activate 'Form of Monster', which we have already agreed is already the undisputed winner of any DPR contest in which it participates)?
Nothing prevents you from using an animal companion in Round1 or while exploiting AoOs on monster turn at the end of the prep round. It occurs to me that a halfling lone wolf rider could really rack it up.
I don't mind post some functioning and perhaps closer to reality less focused on DPS builds just to see how they compare to these knife edge builds.
Absolutely! (Check the first few pages of the thread where I recurvisely detuned a bowbarian archer to make him more practical.)
I'd suggest that eidolons are tougher and more dangerous than animal companions unless intentionally nerfed, and an eldritch guardian fighters' familiar (& maybe a bloodrager's familiar) is at least equal to an AnC. I was toying with the idea of an eldritch guardian, you see.
Either way this will probably be the last halfling I make for this. Risky Striker is good for racking up the damage but you want to avoid having all the builds look alike.
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Some of these conditions are okay, but pinned is a non starter for the majority of builds. So is an animal companion having 36 AC to actually do something. You're not going to see the same builds overcoming these. What you're going to see is other builds that can overcome the new challenges, like Slashy McPaladin, half orc Chosen One:
Half-Orc with Toothy alternate racial trait
str 17 + 2 race + 3 level + 4 Morale + 4 alchemical + 6 enhancement = 36
dex 14
con 07
int 07
wis 14
cha 14
traits : Mivoni Duelist, Fate's Favored
1 brawler : Brawler's cunning, Martial Training, Unarmed Strike, Mutagen
2 Swashbuckler : Deeds, Panache, Swashbuckler's finesse
3 Bloodrager : Bloodline, Destined Strike, Bloodrage, Bonus Feat
4 Paladin : Aura of Good, Detect Evil, Divine Emmisary, Religious Mentor
5 Paladin : Lay on Hands, Delayed Grace, Lay on Paws, Smite Evil 1/day
6 Paladin : Aura of Courage, Divine Health, Mercy (sickened)
7 Paladin : Channel Positive Energy, Divine Grace, Smite Evil 2/day
8 Paladin :
9 Paladin : Mercy (Staggered)
10 Paladin : Smite Evil 3/day, True Form
11 Swashbuckler : Charmed Life 3/day
12 Swashbuckler : Deeds, Nimble +1
Feats:
1 : Power Attack, Improved Unarmed Strike
3 : Combat Expertise, Improved Trip
5 : Boon Companion
7 : Greater Trip
9 : Combat Reflexes
11 : Vicious Stomp
Skills : UMD +26
Equipment :
Belt of Strength +6 36 000
Rod of Quicken (lesser) 35 000
+1 furious fortuitous nodachi 18 360
Boots of Speed 12 000
Wand Key Ring (freedom of movement) 3 000
Wand Key Ring (good hope) 3 000
Potion of invisibility 300
Scroll of Freedom of Movement 700
Scroll of good hope 525
Cracked Magenta Prism Ioun Stone 800
109 685
Familiar is Arbiter Inevitable
To Hit :
12 BAB, 13 Strength, 3 enhancement, 4 luck, 1 haste, 2 morale, -4 Power Attack (4 to trip)
Trip 38
Nodachi 31/26/21
Unarmed 28
Bite 23
Damage :
19(13/6) str, 3 enhancement, 4 luck, 2 morale, 12(8/4) power attack, 5.5 damage die nodachi, 3.5 unarmed, 2.5 damage die bite
Nodachi 45.5
Unarmed 30.5
Bite 20.5
Monster takes its turn, does whatever its turn entails.
Back to our turn. Because of freedom of movement we can't be grappled, and therefore can't be pinned. We're also immune to fear, and the shaken condition. We still have 0 HP, are sickened, staggered and prone. We delay til our familiar, who is invisible and therefore not provoking for movement, moves of to us and uses lay on paws. 4d6 healing, plus mercies so that we're no longer sickened or staggered. We start our actions by using a panache point to use kip up as a swift action. Free actions we start our bloodrage, and quickdraw our nodachi. We full attack, making a trip combat maneuver in lieu of our first attack, with +39 we trip on a 2. Provided we don't roll a one, we take an attack of opportunity for greater trip followed by fortuitous if we hit. Once the monster actually falls we use visious stomp, once again using fortuitous if possible.
AoO 1.8 x 45.5 + (1.8 x 0.15 x 45.5) = 94.18
Stomp .95 x 30.5 + (.95 x .05 x 30.5) = 30.42
.95 x (94.18 + 30.42) = 118.37
Nodachi 2.4 x 45.5 + (2.4 x .15 x 45.5) = 125.58
Bite .65 x 20.5 + (.65 x .05 x 20.5) = 15.07
140.65
Extra damage from prone condition
Nodachi .3 x 45.5 + (.3 x .15 x 45.5) = 15.7
Bite .2 x 20.5 + (.2 x .05 x 20.5) = 4.31
.95 x 19.01 = 18.06
Total = 277.08
Still think this could use a retooling. With the parameters as is, this isn't so much of a DPR challenge, but a "how do you deal with these automatic no save, no defense debuffs". Because you can only escape from a pin, not take control of the grapple, having freedom of movement or making a DC 35 concentration check to cast spells without somatic components are pretty much the only 2 viable options.
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I'd suggest that eidolons are tougher and more dangerous than animal companions unless intentionally nerfedI've no doubt of that. (PFS laid the mallet down on summoners pretty hard, so any builds involving it will get extra extra scrutiny at the tables. I don't think anybody minds if you cake-walk, but when you do it looking like an alien monster from another dimension that need fifteen minutes to resolve your turn, yeeeah...)
...Because of freedom of movement we can't be grappled, and therefore can't be pinned. We're also immune to fear, and the shaken condition. We still have 0 HP, are sickened, staggered and prone. We delay til our familiar, who is invisible and therefore not provoking for movement....
At the beginning of Round2, you are prone, pinned, shaken, sickened, staggered, and at 0hp. -- If you had a spell or supernatural ability previously active which would have prevented any of those, you've been debuffed by one means or another. You will remain Hasted and Enlarged (etc, etc) if you were previously, but anything pertaining to prone, pinned, shaken, sickened, staggered is "off" at that moment. (If you have an extraordinary ability permitting more than a standard action while staggered, odds are a little brighter for you.)
I'm also going to give the Round2 monster See Invisible (not uncommon at that level) as well as Improved Grab and Fast Swallow. In order for your companion to successfully Pounce (if capable and that is its intention), it'll need to have a base AC of 38 prior to charging (AC-2) in other to avoid the monster's attack versus AC35.
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12 levels of sorc, cross blooded draconic and orc, use blood line mutations, spell specialization, magical lineage with metamagic master for traits and the meta magic feats and what ever mythic ranks the given adventure gives you everything else is arbitrary and not needed as it would all be weaker than my normal builds but you requested pfs legal which hampers things and dis allows many of the other options i would consider for a blasting sorc so that's all the info that is relevant for the buildYay! A squishy!
If you could Quicken that or stuff it into a Spellstoring item and somehow unload two, or that and something else, in one round, it would top 500. Let's see a full build.
You would likely need to break the pin first since not only are spells with somatic components impossible to cast while pinned, and those without somatics still requiring 10 + CMB + spell level, so DC 41 concentration check, but in order to direct a fireball, you need to point in the direction it's intended to go, which isn't possible while pinned.
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Well, the goal posts have been moved several times. But currently how it's set up, turn one you can buff. The enemy is nowhere to be seen so can't be targeted. Once your turns over GM fiat happens and somehow you're pinned, prone, shaken, sickened, staggered and at 0 HP. Any spell or supernatural abilities that prevents you from taking one of these conditions is automatically dispelled. Also any readied action to attack, or affect the enemy automatically fail. Turn 2 you do whatever you can with those conditions.
I think its one prep round (round zero), then the one round fighting normally, then one round with all the disadvantages to see how your character fares then. It's not a standard scenario, it's a test to see how your character performs in different situations.
Okay so here is another more general build using the Spiritualist, a class typically considered weak.
Build
Phantom Blade Spiritualist
1) Weapon Focus Scimitar
1) Combat Casting
3) Combat Reflexes
3) Improved Initiative
5) Power Attack
7) Extend Spell
8) Greater Weapon Focus
9) Lunge
11) Dimensional Agility
Traits
Reactionary, Desperate Focus
Str 26 (+2 from level) (+6 from Belt)
Dex 14
Con 14
Int 10
Wis 18 (+1 from level) (+2 from headband)
Cha 8
Gear
+4 Mithril Breastplate -20,200
+2 Ring of Protection - 8000
+2 Amulet of Natural Armour - 8000
Cracked Pale Green Prism - 4000
Dusty Rose Prism - 5000
+6 Belt of Giant Strength - 36,000
Boots of Speed - 12,000
+3 Cloak of Resistance - 9000
+2 Headband of Wisdom
1780 left over
Pre buffs, Heroism and Extended Shield
AC 33 (10 +10 Armor +4 Shield +2 Dex +2 Deflection +2 Natural Armor +2 Insight +1 )
Attack Routine
20/20/15 (9 BAB +8 STR +3 Enhancement +2 Moral +2 Weapon Focus +1 Competence -3 Power Attack -2 Spell Combat)
Damage
1D6+17/18-20
The fight
Prep round
Swift Action to Manifest the Phantom Blade
Standard - Cast Displacement
Free Action boots of haste
Their Round
They try and hit him.
His Round
5ft Step into melee range
Swift spend 2 ectoplasmic points to make the blade Keen
Free Action spend 2 ectoplasmic points to resolve against touch
Full Attack, use Spell combat and spell strike to cast Vampiric Touch, cast defensively, Center Self to use the sword as a focus as a free action. The DC is 21, Concentration is 22 so auto succeed (12CL +4 Wis +4 Combat Casting +2 Trait)
Attack routine goes
21/21/21/16 (1D6+17/15-20) +6D6 on the first attack which he also gets at temp hit points)
Second Round
Don't think he can do anything if you dispel all his spells and put him to 0 hit points and pin him.
EDIT: I find the equation all too confusing but if someone else can be bothered then by all means.
EDIT EDIT:
just thought I'd make some suggestions for what his spells known might be.
1) Expeditious Retreat, Chill Touch, Protection from Evil, Burst of Adrenaline, Feather Fall, Shield
2) Stricken Heart, Invisibility, Spiritual Weapon, Pilfering Hand, False Life
3) Heroism, Vampiric Touch, Displacement, Fly (you could replace this for phantom steed once you get Overland Flight), Dispel Magic
4) Dimension Door, Freedom of Movement, Invisibility (Greater), Thoughtsense
EDIT EDIT EDIT: if you wanted to squeeze a bit more out of it I suspect a dip into Mutagenic Mauler might be one route.
I suppose if he was really really bursting which is the point of this he could spend another 5 Ectoplamic points to make it a corrosive burst keen weapon instead of just keen.
I wonder how much damage that would add.
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So, the standard damage for that build would be:
0.95(17 + 3.5) + 0.3 x 0.95(1 x 17) = 24.32
0.95(17 + 3.5) + 0.3 x 0.95(1 x 17) = 24.32
0.95(17 + 3.5) + 0.3 x 0.95(1 x 17) = 24.32
Total = 123
Total of 123 damage per round against touch AC of 15. If you add corrosive burst instead it would look like this :
0.95(17 + 3.5) + 0.3 x 0.95(1 x 17 + 1x5.5) = 25.89
0.95(17 + 3.5) + 0.3 x 0.95(1 x 17 + 1x5.5) = 25.89
0.95(17 + 3.5) + 0.3 x 0.95(1 x 17 + 1x5.5) = 25.89
Total = 129.5
Total of 129.5 damage per round.
lol definitely not worth the corrosive burst investment then.
More than anything it just goes to show how crazy the damage you guys are producing with some of these builds. I'd say 123 damage at level 12 against an opponent with 30AC would be a pretty decent performance.
Yet you guys are producing numbers in the 400-1000 range. Lol.
I think something interesting could be done with Jabbing Style and Jabbing master on an unchained monk 11/Mutagen Mauler 1 using hammer the gap. However it would require they were allowed to enter the style as a free action.
3 attacks from bab
2 attacks from flurry
1 from Ki
1 from Elbow smash
use stunning fist on the first attack, if it procs
2 attacks from Medusa's strike
I don't know if Monk and Brawler levels stack from unarmed damage dice but I am gonna assume they do.
start with an 18 in either dex or str, get a +6 belt, +2 from level (start with an odd number of wis for the extra one, to increase stunning first DC), 4 from mutagen. For me I'm going str, it adds up to a tiny bit more damage but, in a game I'd go dex for benefits to AC, saves and initiative with > a tiny bit of damage.
12 BAB, 10 attack stat, 3 enhancement, competence from an Ioun stone.
attack sequence
26/26/26/26/21/21/16
with Medusa's strike (therefore now against flat footed AC -2)
26/26/26/26/26/26/21/21/16
the first attack does
2D6+13
the second does
4D6+13
all the rest do
6D6+13
dropping back down to 2D6 if one misses.
+thanks to hammer the gap the second attack would +1 the third +2 until the potential ninth does +8, with this bonus again dropping.
I haven't done a full build for this because
A) pretty sure its against the rules to enter a style in the pre round
B) I just got out the shower and I'm about to sleep when this popped into my head
C) I feel like working out the damage for this with the conditionals from both jabbing style and hammer the gap and medusa's wrath would be literally hell.
pretty sure you can do this though, may need the human racial feet for pre-req's not sure.
Bet it would produce some decent numbers though.
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Both jabbing style and hammer the gap are really great feats, especially for hyper specialized builds who only miss on a 1. Only problem is trying to calculate the average damage. In fact, outside of creating a program to run the numbers and average the results, I'm really not sure how to calculate it. If somebody does know how, I'd love to hear an explanation.
As far as I know, we're also missing save DCs, which really affects spell and supernatural effects. Considering the benchmark of 30 AC, I would think save DC of +16 (the average of 2 good saves at 18, and a bad save at 13) would be a good idea. So, any damage caused by said effects could be factored in like attacks versus AC.
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When we get to the next page, I'll update the rules for the reboot. In the meantime, Deighton Thrane is awarded the September 2017 Gold medal in PFS-legal cheese for two build-mechanics that are pretty much impossible to top save by derivations in the same theme, and they are:
1) Polymorphing into a multi-attack monster.
2) Exploiting a contest loophole to enjoy two full-attacks.
And with, off the winner's circle they go to reflex and be fed grapes while the struggle in the arena continues.
Builds going forward:
* You may not transform into a monster. (Mutagens and size-changes are otherwise OK.)
* You will not receive a full-attack as a readied action on the monster turn between the Prep round and the Battle round.