The PFS DPR Olympics 12th level challenge reboot -- Squishies welcome!


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Alright time for some munchkinry to enter this thread.

Build: Halfling Gunslinger 3/Ranger2/Gunslinger4/Paladin2/Gunslinger1 (taking Pistlero and Mysterious Stranger)
Unadjusted stats:
Str 11
Dex 16
Con 10
Int 7
Wis 10
Cha 17
Final stats:
Str 9
Dex 18
Con 10
Int 7
Wis 10
Cha 26
Feats:
1: Point Blank Shot
3: Rapid Shot
5: Rapid Reload
Ranger : Two Weapon Fighting
7: Slayer's Knack (Pistol)
Gunslinger: Improved Two Weapon Fighting
9: Critical Focus
11: Weapon Focus
Gunslinger: Greater Two Weapon Fighting
Items:
Belt of Dex +2 (4k)
Headband of Cha +6 (36k)
+3 Double-Barrel Pistol x2 (~40k)
Potion of Haste
Oil of Greater Magic Weapon +5 (3k)

Attack Pattern: Smiting, double-tapping, rapid shotting, two-weapon fighting dead shot OF DOOM!!!
+12 BAB + 4 Dex, + 5 Weapon Enhancement + 1 size + 1 Weapon Focus + 1 Point Blank Shot + 1 Haste + 2 Favored Enemy + 7 Cha (smite) - 2 Rapid Shot - 4 Two Weapon Fighting - 4 Double-tapping = +24/+24/+24/+24/+24/+24/+24/+24/+19/+19/+19/+19/+14/+14/+14/+14
The only important damage would be the 1d4 + 8 (I'll have some small amount of extra from PBS and the like floating around) because of dead shot, however, if even one of those crits, I threaten for all of them, and this is going against touch AC.
Now the calculation for the exact damage from dead shot is quite complicated because I need to keep track of the number of crits, however for a first order estimate of the damage, I will only look at the contribution to my average DPR from all attacks hitting and getting at least 1 crit somewhere in there.
10.5*16 (attacks) * .44 (chance all 16 will hit) * .8 (chance at least 1 will crit) * .95 (crit confirmation) = 241 DPR from that single situation, none-the-less counting the contribution from 15 hitting etc.

A more resilient build would be gunslinger 11 / paladin 1. I'd lose ~+3 to hit roughly.

Liberty's Edge

More stupid Sohei tricks, with a slight assist from PFS house-rules:

Halfling [Outrider]: STR+13, DEX+14, CON:12, INT:12, WIS:14, CHA:12
Traits: Reactionary, Dangerously Curious

01 caval1 01 [Beastrider] Mounted Combat
02 sohei1 01 [Ride-by Attack]
03 sohei2 02 [Init+1][Evasion][Spirited Charge], Power Attack
04 caval2 03 STR>14, [Order of the Cockatrice][Dazzling Display]
05 caval3 04 [Cavalier's Charge], Indomitable Mount

Build so far looks like standard "melee class + two levels of monk for saving-throw cheese", with PC sacrificing two levels of animal companion for front-loading mounted feats. Strong build for a small race on a medium mount. Charge with a lance, use kamas to trip adjacent opponents next to mount.

Oh, and since we're a strong monk, we're no slouch throwing shurikens. Damage isn't much, but it's enough and doesn't require any additional expenses, additional feats or more than one free hand.

06 caval4 05 {{Expert Trainer*}} [Challenge 2/day]
07 sohei3 06 [Maneuver Training][Still Mind], Horse Master

Strength of build now apparent with Horse Master feat bringing druid-level of AC mount to character-level. {{*In PFS, all cavaliers get Expert Trainer, meaning archetypes such as Beastrider which normally forfeit it still have it.}}

08 sohei4 07 [Init+2][Ki Pool][Ki Weapon+1]
09 sohei5 07 [High Jump], EWP:Fauchard
10 sohei6 08 [Init+3][Weapon Training:Polearms][Improved Trip]

Now we're Flurrying with a 15-20 threat Keen polearm with the Trip property. And we have Weapon Training in it, so we buy Gloves of Dueling.

11 sohei7 09 Critical Focus
12 sohei8 10 [Init+4][Ki Weapon+2]

So...at 12th we're riding around on the nastiest pounce-beast imaginable which has defenses and saves better than a paladin's, and have no BAB drawbacks while Flurrying with a high-threat exotic polearm (we've basically traded the horrid -10 BAB11 iterative for a front-loaded extra Flurry attack from 2nd-level with an additional -5 iterative at 12th).

Shadow Lodge

erik542 wrote:

Alright time for some munchkinry to enter this thread.

Build: Halfling Gunslinger 3/Ranger2/Gunslinger4/Paladin2/Gunslinger1 (taking Pistlero and Mysterious Stranger)

whoa, Pistlero AND Mysterious Stranger? that can't be legal

ok checked ultimate combat, i think, technically it is legal, but expect an errata soon. The main issue i see with it is that Stranger's Fortune replaces Gun training but Pistol Training doesn't replace anything which is very odd indeed, Pistlero 5 seems to get Pistol Training AND Gun training, just pick the regular pistol (or maybe the double barreled pistol) with gun training and you're getting your DEX mod x2 to damage since they are different sources of damage.

But considering the Musket Master gets Musket Training which replaces firearm training 1,2,3 and 4 i'm going to guess that the Pistolero's Pistol Training is intended to replace Gun training

erik542 wrote:

Attack Pattern: Smiting, double-tapping, rapid shotting, two-weapon fighting dead shot OF DOOM!!!

+12 BAB + 4 Dex, + 5 Weapon Enhancement + 1 size + 1 Weapon Focus + 1 Point Blank Shot + 1 Haste + 2 Favored Enemy + 7 Cha (smite) - 2 Rapid Shot - 4 Two Weapon Fighting - 4 Double-tapping = +24/+24/+24/+24/+24/+24/+24/+24/+19/+19/+19/+19/+14/+14/+14/+14
The only important damage would be the 1d4 + 8 (I'll have some small amount of extra from PBS and the like floating around) because of dead shot, however, if even one of those crits, I threaten for all of them, and this is going against touch AC.
Ultimate Combat, pg 11 wrote:
Dead Shot (Ex): At 7th level, as a full-round action, the gunslinger can take careful aim and pool all of her attack potential into a single, deadly shot. When she does this, she shoots the firearm at a single target, but makes as many attack rolls as she can, based on her base attack bonus.

Using Dead Shot is a full round action, getting an extra attack from your offhand weapon requires a full attack which is a full round action. therefor no TWF with dead shot.

Also the number of attacks used in Dead Shot are based on [your] base attack bonus. which means haste doesn't give you an extra attack on this

Double Tapping + Dead Shot is ok according to this post

with that said, Dead Shot + Double Hackbut + Double Tapping = pain, i'll see if i can do the math on that later


Skerek wrote:
erik542 wrote:

Alright time for some munchkinry to enter this thread.

Build: Halfling Gunslinger 3/Ranger2/Gunslinger4/Paladin2/Gunslinger1 (taking Pistlero and Mysterious Stranger)

whoa, Pistlero AND Mysterious Stranger? that can't be legal

ok checked ultimate combat, i think, technically it is legal, but expect an errata soon. The main issue i see with it is that Stranger's Fortune replaces Gun training but Pistol Training doesn't replace anything which is very odd indeed, Pistlero 5 seems to get Pistol Training AND Gun training, just pick the regular pistol (or maybe the double barreled pistol) with gun training and you're getting your DEX mod x2 to damage since they are different sources of damage.

But considering the Musket Master gets Musket Training which replaces firearm training 1,2,3 and 4 i'm going to guess that the Pistolero's Pistol Training is intended to replace Gun training

erik542 wrote:

Attack Pattern: Smiting, double-tapping, rapid shotting, two-weapon fighting dead shot OF DOOM!!!

+12 BAB + 4 Dex, + 5 Weapon Enhancement + 1 size + 1 Weapon Focus + 1 Point Blank Shot + 1 Haste + 2 Favored Enemy + 7 Cha (smite) - 2 Rapid Shot - 4 Two Weapon Fighting - 4 Double-tapping = +24/+24/+24/+24/+24/+24/+24/+24/+19/+19/+19/+19/+14/+14/+14/+14
The only important damage would be the 1d4 + 8 (I'll have some small amount of extra from PBS and the like floating around) because of dead shot, however, if even one of those crits, I threaten for all of them, and this is going against touch AC.
Ultimate Combat, pg 11 wrote:
Dead Shot (Ex): At 7th level, as a full-round action, the gunslinger can take careful aim and pool all of her attack potential into a single, deadly shot. When she does this, she shoots the firearm at a single target, but makes as many attack rolls as she can, based on her base attack bonus.
Using Dead Shot is a full round action, getting an...

If you want to get technical on this, you only ever get 1 attack with dead shot since your BAB only affects the number of attacks in a full round attack and since this is a full round action not a full round attack, your BAB does not make any stipulation on how many attacks are made in a full round action.

Silver Crusade

Except the fact the Dead Shot description explains you make several attacks as normal, but only based on your BAB ? Please don't be silly when the rules explicitely state how this "full-round action" works.

You get no Rapid Shot, no Haste and no TWFing on a Dead Shot. It is in itself good enough when you crit, or when you only have a broken weapon and need to hit nevertheless without risking too much another misfire, especially with a double-barreled weapon.


Maxximilius wrote:

Except the fact the Dead Shot description explains you make several attacks as normal, but only based on your BAB ? Please don't be silly when the rules explicitely state how this "full-round action" works.

You get no Rapid Shot, no Haste and no TWFing on a Dead Shot. It is in itself good enough when you crit, or when you only have a broken weapon and need to hit nevertheless without risking too much another misfire, especially with a double-barreled weapon.

Except for all the rules for getting additional attacks is only under the Full Attack section.

Liberty's Edge

While I appreciate renewed interest in the thread, let's argue Gunslinger over in Rules forum. (My personal opinion is that a lot of material in UC is cruisin' for a nerfin', so builder beware.)

==//==

I didn't put any restrictions on it on the first page, but spending 3K on a GMW+5 buff is probably grossly stretching the boundaries of anything an actual PFS character is ever likely to do even in a gold-rich environment.

Going forward thread rule: no buff consumables more than 750gp.


That Dervish Dancer on page one has lots of errors in the calculations or am I missing something?

Silver Crusade RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16

Wasum wrote:
That Dervish Dancer on page one has lots of errors in the calculations or am I missing something?

Dotted.


BUMP.

Ok well I might aswell post this before all the heavy-hitters show up here's the build.
I wouldn't recommend playing these ALL CAPS builds, but if you must, please game
responsibly. This guy can't really do much besides wield a gun/bow or... I really don't know,
possibly fail a will save. The build is a basic one-trick pony/gunslinger, but
averaging close to 300 DPR is what some must do at level 12.

The Build:

AM CANNON
Male Human Fighter 5 | Gunslinger(musket master) 5 | Barbarian 2(Urban/Wild Rager) |

Strength 12 (+1)
Dexterity 28 (+9) / 32 (+11) While raging. (18 Base +2 Human +2 Lvls + 6 Ench)
Constitution 12 (+1)
Intelligence 10 (+0)
Wisdom 14 (+2) (13 Base +1 Lvls)
Charisma 7 (-2)

AC [27] = 10 + 8 [Clestial Ar] +9 [Dex] (8+1 Armor Training) / -4 full attack
Touch AC [19] Flat-Footed [18]

Fortitude Save +12 = 11 [base] +1 [Con]
Reflex Save +14 = 5 [base] +9 [Dex]
Will Save +5 = 2 [base] +3 [Wis]

CMB +13 = 12 [BAB] +1 [Str] +0 [size]
CMD +32 = 12 [BAB] +1 [Str] +9 [Dex] +0 [size] + 10

Traits

Killer
Warrior of Old (Elf)
Adopted

Feats

(Lvl 1)(ft 1) Deadly Aim, Point-Blank Shot & Precise Shot.
(Lvl 2)(ft 2) Rapid shot
(Lvl 3)(ft 3) Quick Draw
(Lvl 4)(gn 1) Exotic Weapon Proficiency & Rapid Reload(muskets)
(Lvl 5)(ft 4) Weapon Focus & Weapon Specialization
(Lvl 6)(ft 5)
(Lvl 7)(gn 2) Point-Blank Master
(Lvl 8)(gn 3)
(Lvl 9)(br 1) Extra Rage
(Lvl 10)(gn 4) Improved Critical
(Lvl 11)(gn 5) Rapid Reload(double hackbut)
(Lvl 12)(br 2)

Money Spent

36 000 +6 DEX Belt
36 300 +3 Furious Double Hackbutt
22 400 Celestial Armor
12 000 Boots Of Speed
3 300 Left Over Money For Bullets/Powder Horm/Black Powder Kegs/A Donkey w/ Cart/+Misc
I wish I could have afforded gloves of dueling, I really do.
(106 700 Total) +Misc

Now we can move on to the damage!

DAMAGE:

Base Attack Bonus +12
Basic Melee Attack +13
Basic Ranged Attack +21

Double Hackbut = BAB + 14(9dex+3wep+1wep train+1 wep focus) / 18(rage) +1PBS. Crit x4.

Or +30 while raging, or +32 while raging/haste/point blank shot.

Full Attack w/ Rage/Haste (PBS is included)

24/24/24/24/19/14

(BAB + 11dex + 7(wep(+5 w/ rage) & wep train & wep foci) + 1 Haste + 1 PBS) - 4 Deadly Aim - 2 Rapid Shot - 2 (Wild Barb Full Att) = 24

Damage

2d12(6.5*2=13) + 24(9dex + 8deadly aim + 3wep + 1wep training + 2wep spec + 1PBS = 37

28(raging, extra +2dmg from both wep and dex) = 41


DPR:

All shots on a full attack are the same, because I'm only missing on misfires. e.g. 1-2(10%)
If I miscalculated, I would appreciate the corrections, I am new to this type of character building.

6 x (0.9(41)+(0.1*0.9)((3x41)+4)=48.33)

Total DPR = 289.98

Now for the challenge.

Challange:

So, I would begin by drawing my Dbl Hackbut and setting it up (Full round). Then proceed to rage and
obliterate everything within 50'(making my DC 10 Will save everytime I kill something), hopefully being
closer to the enemies than my party, for obvious reasons. I have chosen to forsake any buffs, as I have no
money and not many thoughts about what would help me in DPR(possibly Weapon of Awe or something similar).
Doing roughly 300 DPR I would assume most things weaker than most CR 17 or less will die, and even possibly
a few of them on a couple crits.

Well I hope you all have fun with this. I think it is PFS(until they ban you) & RAI/RAW legal
I would like to say that reading about builds and rules/RAW & RAI/munchkinism on these forums is a great way
to receive input about Pathfinder.


Sadness...my build is illegal. You can't use Furious on a range weapon.
Beyond that, I guess I would change it to a +4 dbl hackbut & get some potions of weapon of awe(that will be costly).

Dmg would go up by one, or down by one without the potion.

Shadow Lodge

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Thread necro. Lots of new splats out over the last five years; let's see some builds.


Agreed Sir Thugsalot. Time for some new DPR beasts.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

OK. Let's try a pyrokineticist and see how it adds up. We'll call her the

Fire Imp. Halfling Pyrokineticist 12.

build:
Ability scores: Str 12-2=10, Dex 14+2 race+2 ioun stone=18, Con 15+3 level+6 belt=24, Int 12, Wis 12, Cha 12+2race=14.

Feats: Weapon Finesse, Risky Striker, Weapon Focus (kinetic blast), Toughness, Combat Reflexes, Improved Critical (kinetic blast)
Infusions: Burning Infusion, Kinetic Blade, Kinetic Whip, others not relevant.
Skills: UMD +20, others not relevant
Wild Talents: Fire's Fury, Elemental Whispers & greater (fire wysp), others not relevant
Gear: Belt of mighty constitution +6 (36K), Deep red sphere ioun stone (8K), Boots of speed (12K), circlet of persuasion (4.5K), potion of heroism (750 gp), scroll of long arm (25 gp) ; assume the rest goes on defensive items.

The Action:

Buff 10 min/level: potion of heroism

Buff 1 min/level: scroll of long arm

Actions round zero: activate boots of speed as a swift action, gather power as a move action, activate kinetic whip burning infusion maximised empowered blue flame composite blast. Burn 3, step 1 elemental overflow (+2 size to Con). Deliver an AoO with it as the enemy moves in to 10' range.

Attack BAB +9 +4 dex +1 size +2 morale +1 haste +1 competence +3 elemental overflow = +21 touch
Damage 83 +(12d6+11)/2, +1d6 next round

Actions round one: Activate kinetic whip burning infusion maximised empowered blue flame composite blast. Burn 5 due to not gathering power, so use the internal buffer to reduce it by 2; total burn so far 6, step 2 elemental overflow (+4 size to con). Full attack with it.

All 3 attacks miss a touch AC of 15 only on a 1.
Damage 84 +(12d6+12)/2, +3 if AoO hit last round, or after first hit this round.


DPR:
For the AoO: 0.95*(124.5 + 3.5)+0.1*0.95(124.5)=133.4275
For the first attack, 5% chance of 0.95*126+0.1*0.95*126=131.67, 95% 0.95*129+0.1*0.95*129=134.805.
After that I'm going to assume one of the previous attacks has hit. 0.95*129+0.1*0.95*129=134.805 for each of those two.
Total 537.68575 if I haven't messed up the math somewhere.

537.68575 is pretty decent damage, isn't it? or about 404 if the enemy doesn't take an AoO in round zero because it's taking a 5' step, or using acrobatics, or whatever.


Lol yeah 537 is pretty good xD

Although it is worth mentioning thats a level of Nova that isn't really sustainable.

Definitely good damage though.


Yeah, for an I-can-do-this-all-day-long version you're looking at a kinetic whip burning infusion blue flame blast for the AoO and a kinetic blade blue flame blast for the full attack. I'll do the math tomorrow, it's getting late here.


Lowball DPR:
Assume no burn initially and no intent to get any.
Action round zero: activate boots of speed as a swift action, gather power as a move action, activate kinetic whip burning infusion blue flame composite blast. Deliver an AoO with it as the enemy moves in to 10' range.
Attack still hits on 2+
Damage 12d6+10, +1d6 next round

Action round one: activate kinetic blade blue flame blast and full attack with it.
All 3 attacks hit on 2+
Damage 12d6+10, +2 after either AoO or one of these hits.

For the AoO: 0.95*(52 + 3.5)+0.1*0.95*52=57.665
For the first attack, 5% chance of 0.95*52+0.1*0.95*52=54.34, 95% 0.95*54+0.1*0.95*54=56.43
After that I'm going to assume one of the previous attacks has hit. 0.95*54+0.1*0.95*54=56.43 for each of those two.


i.e. total 226.8505, less than half as much.


May I ask why you aren't prebuffing with Elemental overflow?


On the lowball one because that's the worst case within the given scenario. On the full bore attack because you don't want to knock yourself out. It doesn't make much of a difference to kinetic blade/whip anyway for a pyro.

Grand Lodge

Nice. Boot of speed are a free action!


Chaotic Surge Wilder lvl 12

Elan
22 Cha (15 +3 from 4/8/12 lvls, +2 racial, +2 ioun stone)
14 Dex
12 Str
12 Int
12 Wis
10 Con (-2 ioun stone)

Traits:
Psi-Gifted: Disintegration (+1ML)
Reactionary

Lvl1 - Mind Thrust, Psicrystal Affinity
Lvl2 - Vigor
Lvl3 - Empower Power
Lvl4 - Share Pain, Inertial Armor (Extra Power Known from Elan Favored Class 1/4)
Lvl5 - Psionic Meditation
Lvl6 - Concussive Onslaught
Lvl7 - Psicrystal Containment
Lvl8 - Telekinetic Maneuver, Solicit Psicrystal (Extra Power Known),
Lvl9 - Expanded Knowledge: Animal Affinity
Lvl10 - Fold Space
Lvl11 - Split Psionic Ray
Lvl12 - Disintegration, Incarnate (Extra Power Known)

Items:
+3 Surge Crystal (+3 to Wild Surge) (60,000g)
Orange Prism Ioun Stone (+1ML) (30,000g)
Psicrystal Staff (2,000g)
Setting Stone of Invigoration (+1ML, +2DCs) (10,080g)
Pink and Green Ioun Stone, flawed (+2Cha, -2Con) (6,000g)

Total value: 108,080g and 1920g remaining.

HP: 64 PP: 164

Intermediate Buff: Invigoration (+1ML, +2DC's)
Long Term Buff: Inertial Armor (+10AC for 13pp)

During my prep round, I manifest Fold Space to teleport away so he can't hit me :P (move action), then I manifest Telekinetic Maneuver on the Ogre to Grapple him in place (standard action) with a CMB of 1d20+24 (+14ML, +6Cha, +4Augment), and I use Solicit Psicrystal to transfer the concentration of the Grapple (swift action).

During the real round, my Psicrystal continues the Grapple to Pin him to the ground, I expend both psionic focuses to unleash an Empowered Split Psi Ray Disintegration and Wild Surge it.

15ML Disintegration with a 1 Surge, the power fails and I become Shaken.
22ML Disintegration with a 2-3 Surge, 36d6 (+50%) + 36d6 (+50%)
29ML Disintegration with a 4 Surge, 50d6 (+50%) + 50d6 (+50%).

As my move action, I manifest Fold Space to teleport back to his location and kick his disintegrated ashes around ^^.

.

I have no idea how to actually calculate this into DPR using that formula you posted in the OP. I could use some help. Chaotic Surge Wilders roll a 1d4 when they surge, and on a 1 roll, the power fails if it dips below the power level, but on a 4 roll, the Surge amount is doubled. So it's a 25% chance to suck, and 50% chance to be good, and a 25% chance to turn whatever you're attacking into sticky goo.


First, Dreamscarred Press won't be PFS-legal. Probably ever. Assuming you don't care -

Average damage for one of the split rays on a failed save is 0.25*0 + 0.5*(36*3.5) + 0.25*(50*3.5) = 106.75 if I'm understanding you correctly. On a successful save damage drops to 0.25*0+0.75*(5*3.5) = 13.125. I don't see what your save DC is - or what the Fort save of the target is unfortunately, this challenge appears to be aimed at martial more than caster types.

I'd written more but that last sinks it. Without knowing what the chance of making the save it's pointless working out the rest. I will say that animal affinity for +4 dex is much simpler and noticeably better than trying to grapple the enemy, with the same effective attack bonus.

BTW, the OP isn't currently in the thread but you could always send him a PM.


avr wrote:

First, Dreamscarred Press won't be PFS-legal. Probably ever. Assuming you don't care -

Average damage for one of the split rays on a failed save is 0.25*0 + 0.5*(36*3.5) + 0.25*(50*3.5) = 106.75 if I'm understanding you correctly. On a successful save damage drops to 0.25*0+0.75*(5*3.5) = 13.125. I don't see what your save DC is - or what the Fort save of the target is unfortunately, this challenge appears to be aimed at martial more than caster types.

I'd written more but that last sinks it. Without knowing what the chance of making the save it's pointless working out the rest. I will say that animal affinity for +4 dex is much simpler and noticeably better than trying to grapple the enemy, with the same effective attack bonus.

BTW, the OP isn't currently in the thread but you could always send him a PM.

My DC is 10 + 6 (power level) + 6 (charisma) + 3-7 (augmentation) + 2 (Invigoration) = 27DC on a 2-3 Surge, 31DC on a 4 surge (x2 - 1 save for each ray)

There are two rays and the Disintegration is Empowered so it's +50%, is that considered in that formula?

Like, 0.25*0 + 0.5*((72*3.5)*1.5) + 0.25*((100*3.5)*1.5) = no save

And, 0.25*0+0.75*((10*3.5)*1.5) = save

So, 320.25 DPR with no save, 39.375 DPR on save.


Ryze Kuja wrote:
avr wrote:

First, Dreamscarred Press won't be PFS-legal. Probably ever. Assuming you don't care -

Average damage for one of the split rays on a failed save is 0.25*0 + 0.5*(36*3.5) + 0.25*(50*3.5) = 106.75 if I'm understanding you correctly. On a successful save damage drops to 0.25*0+0.75*(5*3.5) = 13.125. I don't see what your save DC is - or what the Fort save of the target is unfortunately, this challenge appears to be aimed at martial more than caster types.

I'd written more but that last sinks it. Without knowing what the chance of making the save it's pointless working out the rest. I will say that animal affinity for +4 dex is much simpler and noticeably better than trying to grapple the enemy, with the same effective attack bonus.

BTW, the OP isn't currently in the thread but you could always send him a PM.

My DC is 10 + 6 (power level) + 6 (charisma) + 3-7 (augmentation) + 2 (Invigoration) = 27DC on a 2-3 Surge, 31DC on a 4 surge (x2 - 1 save for each ray)

There are two rays and the Disintegration is Empowered so it's +50%, is that considered in that formula?

Like, 0.25*0 + 0.5*((72*3.5)*1.5) + 0.25*((100*3.5)*1.5) ?

So, 320.25 DPR?

I missed the empowered bit, but even with that - not quite. You still miss on a 1, threaten a crit on a 20 and the target has some chance of making the save. What chance I don't know because I don't know the enemy's Fort save bonus.

Liberty's Edge

By the Monster Creation Rules, a CR 12 creature will get +15 on a Good Save and +11 on a bad one.


Unfortunately the OP wasn't using those rules at least for CR 12. Mention was made of the monster being a challenge, hence the 30 AC. Maybe if we reference 30 AC on that table and average the Good (+18) and Poor (+13) saves corresponding to it - call it +16? 50% chance of making it on a 2-3 surge, 30% on a 4 surge.

That would make the base damage before putting in the hit/crit chances

0*0.25 + 0.5*0.5*((72*3.5)*1.5) + 0.5*0.5*((10*3.5)*1.5) + 0.7*0.25*((100*3.5)*1.5) + 0.3*0.25*((10*3.5)*1.5) = 203.4375 DPR

With a 2+ to hit and crit of 20/x2 the chance of a hit/crit would change the result very little, I'd be happy to leave it there personally.


203.4375 DPR vs Good Save16.

0*0.25 + 0.75*0.5*((72*3.5)*1.5) + 0.25*0.5*((10*3.5)*1.5) + 0.95*0.25*((100*3.5)*1.5) + 0.05*0.25*((10*3.5)*1.5) = 273.65625 DPR vs a Bad Save


That build I posted is from a character I'm playing now, I had to move stuff around to make the build work for lvl 12. But he's an absolute monster. He can do that all day erry day.

I should make a munchkin build with Quicken Power and Hustle Power.... hrrm... :D

This is my Chaotic Wilder's planned build :) We're lvl 10 atm :)

Psi-Gifted: Mind Thrust
Reactionary

Lvl1 - Mind Thrust, Psicrystal Affinity
Lvl2 - Vigor
Lvl3 - Empower Power
Lvl4 - Share Pain, Inertial Armor (Extra Power Known from Elan Favored Class 1/4)
Lvl5 - Psionic Meditation
Lvl6 - Concussive Onslaught
Lvl7 - Expanded Knowledge(EK): Energy Missile
Lvl8 - Telekinetic Maneuver, Solicit Psicrystal (Extra Power Known),
Lvl9 - EK: Metamorphosis
Lvl10 - Fold Space
Lvl11 - EK: Remote Viewing
Lvl12 - Retrieve, Incarnate (Extra Power Known)
Lvl13 - EK: Energy Current
Lvl14 - Disintegration
Lvl15 - Split Psionic Ray
Lvl16 - Barred Mind, Energy Wave (Extra Power Known)
Lvl17 - Psicrystal Containment
Lvl18 - Reality Revision
Lvl19 - Maximize Power
Lvl20 - Shadow Body, Greater Psychoport (Extra Power Known)

Currently I'm at level 10, but this is my planned build and so far it's working awesome. -IF- I ever roll a 4 on my chaotic surge, it's lights out for anything. Empowered Mind Thrust on a 4 surge is currently 15d10 (+50%)dmg with a 27 Will Save DC, Empowered Energy Missile on a 4 surge is currently 14d6+14 (+50%)dmg on up to 5 targets with a 26 Reflex/Fort Save DC.

.

Solicit Psicrystal lets my Psicrystal take over the Concentration on Telekinetic Maneuver (Bull Rush, Trip, Disarm, Grapple/Pin) or on Energy Current so I can continue nuking. Both are excellent for offense/defense and crowd control.

Vigor/Share Pain + Inertial Armor (Share w/ Psicrystal) = lots of defense, especially if I Wild Surge them.

Remote Viewing + Retrieve = Inter-dimensional Carmen San Diego

Incarnate can make all kinds of psionic powers and effects permanent on myself.

Metamorphosis = ultimate utility, and fly for 1 min/lvl. In battle, Metamorphosis with 4pp augment, Reduce size -2, +4 Dex for a +4 initiative, +4 reflex, +6 AC, +8 Stealth and +4 Fly (Tiny size bonus).

.

At lvl 20 with a +3 Surge Crystal on a 4 surge: Maximized Empowered Mind Thrust is 33d10 (+50%), Max Emp Energy Missile is 32d6+32 (+50%) to 5 targets, Max Split Psi Ray Disintegration is 64d6 + 64d6, Max Emp Energy Wave is same numbers as Energy Missile, except in a 120 ft cone. Max Emp 4 Concussive Onslaught would be 16d6, so static 144 force dmg per round in 60ft diameter aoe for 20 rounds, Fort save for half

Disintegration = static 384 dmg with a Fort save of 26 + whatever your Cha Mod is, twice. So potential 768 damage if they fail both saves.

Mind Thrust = static 495 dmg with a Will Save of 27 + Cha Mod.

Energy Missile/Wave/Current = static 336 cold/fire dmg to 5 Targets/Cone with a Fort/Refl Save of 26 + Cha Mod.

Share Pain+Vigor would give me and Psicrystal 190 health (so 380 temp health total), Inertial Armor would be +22 AC, etc.

.

Max dmg across 20 rounds would be 2880 on concussive onslaught in a 30ft radius (60ft diameter) area. Max dmg across 20 rounds would be 6720 for energy current, with a possible 6720 more because it can arc to a second target within 15 ft.

.

I can manifest Concussive Onslaught, and it bombards an area for 20 rounds, then I can manifest Energy Current and swift it to my Psicrystal and it can maintain the concentration for me, and then I can nuke with Split Psi Rays.

.

With bonus ML's from Setting Stones of Invigoration and Ioun Stones. All of these numbers go up.


16 was the average of likely good (+18) and poor (+13) saves. You could use +15 just as reasonably. I think you're using +11 as the bad save there and computing damage based on that +11? That doesn't seem reasonable.


Chaotic Surge Wilder lvl 12

Human
22 Cha (15 +3 from 4/8/12 lvls, +2 racial, +2 ioun stone)
14 Dex
12 Str
12 Int
12 Wis
10 Con (-2 ioun stone)

Traits:
Psi-Gifted: Disintegration (+1ML)

Lvl1 - Mind Thrust, Psicrystal Affinity, Empower Power
Lvl2 - Hammer
Lvl3 - Hustle Power
Lvl4 - Share Pain, Inevitable Strike (Extra Power Known from Human Favored Class 1/4)
Lvl5 - Psionic Meditation
Lvl6 - Concussive Onslaught
Lvl7 - Psicrystal Containment
Lvl8 - Telekinetic Maneuver, Solicit Psicrystal (Extra Power Known),
Lvl9 - Expanded Knowledge: Hustle
Lvl10 - Fold Space
Lvl11 - Split Psionic Ray
Lvl12 - Disintegration, Incarnate (Extra Power Known)

Items:
+3 Surge Crystal (+3 to Wild Surge) (60,000g)
Orange Prism Ioun Stone (+1ML) (30,000g)
Psicrystal Staff (2,000g)
Setting Stone of Invigoration (+1ML, +2DCs) (10,080g)
Pink and Green Ioun Stone, flawed (+2Cha, -2Con) (6,000g)

Total value: 108,080g and 1920g remaining.

HP: 64 PP: 164

Intermediate Buff: Invigoration (+1ML, +2DC's)
Long Term Buff: Share Pain

During my prep round, I manifest Hustle (swift action) to gain a 2nd move action, I then Wild Surge an Empowered Hammer power on my Psicrystal (standard action), then regain Psionic Focus (move action), then Fold Space to teleport away from the Ogre while leaving my Psicrystal near the Ogre (2nd move action).

During the real round, my Psicrystal delivers Hammer as a touch attack, I manifest Hustle to gain a 2nd move action (swift action), I then Wild Surge Mind Thrust with Hustle Power (move action), I regain Psionic Focus (2nd move action), and then I expend both psionic focuses to unleash an Empowered Split Psi Ray Disintegration and Wild Surge it.

7ML Hammer with a 1 Surge is 4d8 (+50%)
21ML Hammer with a 2-3 Surge is 11d8 (+50%)
28ML Hammer with a 4 Surge is 14d8 (+50%)

3ML Mind Thrust is 3d10
17ML Mind Thrust is 17d10
24ML Mind Thrust is 24d10

15ML Disintegration with a 1 Surge, the power fails and I become Shaken.
22ML Disintegration with a 2-3 Surge, 36d6 (+50%) + 36d6 (+50%)
29ML Disintegration with a 4 Surge, 50d6 (+50%) + 50d6 (+50%).

.

Vs a 16 Save: 285.65625 DPR

Hammer:

(0.25*((4*4.5)*1.5) + 0.5*((11*4.5)*1.5) + 0.25*((14*4.5)*1.5))*0.85 = 57.375 DPR

Mind Thrust:

0.05*0.25*(3*5.5) + 0.5*0.5*((17*5.5)) + 0.7*0.25*((24*5.5)) = 46.68125 DPR

Disintegration:
(0*0.25 + 0.5*0.5*((72*3.5)*1.5) + 0.5*0.5*((10*3.5)*1.5) + 0.7*0.25*((100*3.5)*1.5) + 0.3*0.25*((10*3.5)*1.5))*0.85 = 181.6 DPR


avr wrote:
16 was the average of likely good (+18) and poor (+13) saves. You could use +15 just as reasonably. I think you're using +11 as the bad save there and computing damage based on that +11? That doesn't seem reasonable.

Wilders can attack any save, CMD, and cause Mind Affecting, Fire, Cold, Electricity, Sonic, and Force damage. It's not possible that a mob would have every one of these stats as Good.

I think it's perfectly reasonable to assume that one or more of these stats will be weak on a CR12 mob.


Without either grapple or a dex boost from animal affinity you hit on a 4+ with the disintegration rays I think. +9 BAB, +2 Dex = +11 attack vs 15 touch AC. With that the crit chance/chance of missing don't more or less cancel out as they would when you were hitting on 2+.

If you put that and the damage above for a +16 save into the OP's formula you get 0.85*203.4375 + 0.05*0.85*203.4375 = 181.6 DPR, to one decimal place. (for the disintegration; I haven't looked up the other powers)

Edit: & the poor save was estimated at +13, by me at least. Using +11 is still not reasonable IMO. The enemy was not said to be CR 12.


Student Surge Wilder lvl 12 - Not Chaotic Surge anymore.

Human
22 Cha (15 +3 from 4/8/12 lvls, +2 racial, +2 ioun stone)
14 Dex
12 Str
12 Int
12 Wis
10 Con (-2 ioun stone)

Traits:
Psi-Gifted: Disintegration (+1ML)

Lvl1 - Mind Thrust, Psicrystal Affinity, Empower Power
Lvl2 - Hammer
Lvl3 - Hustle Power
Lvl4 - Share Pain, Inevitable Strike (Extra Power Known from Human Favored Class 1/4)
Lvl5 - Psionic Meditation
Lvl6 - Concussive Onslaught
Lvl7 - Psicrystal Containment
Lvl8 - Telekinetic Maneuver, Solicit Psicrystal (Extra Power Known),
Lvl9 - Expanded Knowledge: Hustle
Lvl10 - Fold Space
Lvl11 - Split Psionic Ray
Lvl12 - Disintegration, Incarnate (Extra Power Known)

Items:
+3 Surge Crystal (+3 to Wild Surge) (60,000g)
Orange Prism Ioun Stone (+1ML) (30,000g)
Psicrystal Staff (2,000g)
Setting Stone of Invigoration (+1ML, +2DCs) (10,080g)
Pink and Green Ioun Stone, flawed (+2Cha, -2Con) (6,000g)

Total value: 108,080g and 1920g remaining.

HP: 64 PP: 164

Intermediate Buff: Invigoration (+1ML, +2DC's)
Long Term Buff: Share Pain

During my prep round, I manifest Hustle (swift action) to gain a 2nd move action, I then Wild Surge an Empowered Hammer power on my Psicrystal (standard action), then regain Psionic Focus (move action), then Fold Space to teleport away from the Ogre while leaving my Psicrystal near the Ogre (2nd move action).

During the real round, my Psicrystal delivers Hammer as a touch attack, I manifest Hustle to gain a 2nd move action (swift action), I then Wild Surge Mind Thrust with Hustle Power (move action), I regain Psionic Focus (2nd move action), and then I expend both psionic focuses to unleash an Empowered Split Psi Ray Disintegration and Wild Surge it.

21ML Hammer 11d8 (+50%)

17ML Mind Thrust 17d10

22ML Disintegration 36d6 (+50%) + 36d6 (+50%)

.

Vs a 16 Save: 311.33375 DPR

Hammer:

((11*4.5)*1.5))*0.85 = 63.1125 DPR

Mind Thrust:

0.55*((17*5.5)= 51.425 DPR

Disintegration:
(0.55*((72*3.5)*1.5) + 0.45*((10*3.5)*1.5))*0.85 = 196.79625 DPR

Shadow Lodge

avr wrote:
Mention was made of the monster being a challenge, hence the 30 AC.
AC30 for the challenge is correct. Quoting the thread's first post:
Quote:

* Equipment: you have 110,000gp; +4 weapon max.

* Prep time: You are not surprised and have one full round to prepare. (Your allies are "selfish"; no one buffs you.) You may have one intermediate-duration buff (1min/lvl up to half-hour) and one long-term (10min/lvl or greater) buff already in-effect prior to the prep round.

* Bad-guy turn: a large opponent with 10' reach moves up to 10' away on its turn and strikes you for damage. AC 30, Touch 15, Flat 23. -- If you have buffs, items or abilities which generate one or more AoOs in this scenario, take them.

* Your turn: Take a full action. You are at the edge of the opponent's reach, and it threatens. Any check you make against it is versus opposed 35 (skill, CMD, whatever). There is no difficult terrain or nearby cover.

As noted by another poster, Dreamscarred Press (and indeed any non-Paizo) material is not PFS-legal (even if it might be awesome).

It should also be mentioned that PFS' rules on item-purchasing can and probably will prove cumbersome to, or outright preclude, build gimmicks relying on sinking over half of net-worth into a single piece of gear.


Yeah, I just wanted to see what my DPR was for this guy, I've never done a DPR calculation before :) I'm not bothered that Psionics is excluded.

Shadow Lodge

* Damage/round formula: h(d+s)+ft(cd+cb+r)

h = Chance to hit, expressed as a percentage. This doesn't exceed .95 (unless you autohit for whatever reason) and never goes below .05.
d = Normal damage. This is any damage that happens any time you hit.
s = Damage which isn't multiplied on a crit. "s" stands for sneak attack, but this includes elemental/alignment properties on weapons, manyshot damage, and so on.
t = Chance to roll a threat. This is the threat range of your weapon or your chance to hit, whichever is lower.
f = This is your chance to confirm a threat. Most of the time, this is equal to h. If you have Critical Focus, it's (h+.2) or .95, whichever is higher. If you auto-confirm crits, as with a level 20 fighter or Bless Weapon, this is 1.
c = This is the number of bonus multiples you get from a crit. A 2x crit weapon is 1, a 3x crit weapon is 2, etc.

-- Remember to subtract one from your crit multiplier, or your damage will be over-done in the formula!

b = This is elemental burst damage, such as from fiery burst weapons and thundering. Such enhancements self-multiply based on your crit multiplier; if they don't, then they're added to r and not b.
r = This is fixed bonus damage dealt on a crit. No such abilities exist in PF core, to my knowledge.

Shadow Lodge

Other challenge reminders: 12th-level characters, and no consumables valued over 750gp (although you can have several which together exceed 750gp).

* * * *

(Exercise: Pile up so many bonuses that attributes hardly matter, and hence the 20 points can be spread around to enable enjoying the finer things in life, such as saving throws, skill points, not feeling compelled to gorf our human bonus feat for Dual Talent, and a positive CHA score to flirt with chicas who dig the bad boys.)

Bad Samurai bad!

STR:12
DEX+17 (15,14,12,12,12,12 20pt array)
CON:14
INT:12
WIS:12
CHA:12

alignment: CN, deity: Rovagug
traits: Bestial Wrath (religion), Dangerously Curious (magic)
01 barb1 [urban][rage:12r/day], Extra Rage, Two Weapon Fighting
02 samurai1 [mount][challenge][resolve][order of the cockatrice]
03 rogue1[unchained][SA+1d6][Weapon Finesse], Piranha Strike
04 rogue2[ki pool][trick:weapon focus:wakizashi], DEX>18
05 rogue3[SA+2d6][Finesse Training:wakizashi], Double Slice
06 samurai2 [braggart:Dazzling Display]
07 samurai3 [weapon expertise:wakizashi], Improved Two Weapon Fighting
08 fighter1 [weapon master][Weapon Specialization:wakizashi], DEX>19
09 fighter2 [weapon guard], Improved Critical:wakizashi
10 fighter3 [weapon training:wakizashi], Critical Focus
11 barb2 [rage power:Reckless Abandon+1], Extra Traits:Accelerated Drinker (combat), Mivoni Duelist (region)
12 rogue4 [combat trick:Greater Two Weapon Fighting], DEX>20

skills: 5 ranks taken in every knowledge skill needed for identifying monster type (nature, plains, dungeoneering, religion, etc).

Weapons: (3x 21,035gp if all adamantine = 63,105)
1. +1/Furious/Cunning wakizashi
2. +1/Furious/Cunning wakizashi
3. +1/Furious/Fortuitous bardiche

Equipment:
Gloves of Dueling, 15,000gp
cracked pale green prism (att+1)+(dmg+1), 8,000gp
Champion’s Banner 8,000gp (challenge dmg+4)
Belt of Incredible Dexterity +6, 36,000gp

…big ticket items are ~10kgp over 110kgp, but we’re going to run with it because it’s doable with one more module played and/or by not having three adamantine weapons. The adamantine won’t factor into the challenge anyway since monster DR or hardness isn’t specified.

The Fight!

Active buffs: Good Hope (up to 3min), Long arm (up to 3min). Inactive buff: Haste (potion held in hand).

Prep round: move-action consume (via Accelerated Drinker) held potion of Haste, ready polearm to attack first enemy to enter threatened area, controlled rage for DEX+4.

Enemy attack: 1) our ready-action triggers (via Long Arm) when they are 15’ away. 2) as they close to 10’, they trigger an AoO for leaving a threatened square. 3) if we hit with the AoO, Fortuitous weapon property grants us another attack at -5.

Our turn: swift-action issue Challenge, drop polearm, quickdraw both wakizashis and take seven attacks.

~ ~ ~

Attack bonus (bardiche): 11(BAB) +1(STR) +3(enh) +2(morale) +1[reckless] +1(ioun) +1(haste) = +18/+18/(+13?)

…damage: d10+ 1(STR) +3(enh) +2(morale) +1(ioun) = ~12.5
#1: .45(12.5)+ (.05x.45)(12.5) = 6.1875
#2+#3: 6.1875 + (.2)x(6.1875) = 7.425

Attack bonus (wakizashi): 11(BAB) +10(DEX) +3(enh) +4(WF/WT) +2(morale) +1[reckless] +1(ioun) +1(haste) -3(piranha) -2(TWF) = +28/+28/+28/+23/+23/+18/+18
Critical threat confirmation bonus: +12 (Bestial Wrath +2, Weapon Expertise +2, Critical Focus +4, Cunning +4)

…damage: d6+ 10(DEX) +7(challenge) +3(enh) +2(morale) +5(WS/WT) +6(piranha) +1(ioun) +1(Mivoni) = ~38.5

#1,#2,#3: 3x[.95(38.5)=36.575 + (.3)(.95)(38.5)=10.9725] = 142.6425
#4,#5: 2x[.7(38.5)=26.95 + 10.9725] = 75.845
#6,#7: 2x[.45(38.5)=17.325 + 10.9725] = 56.595

Grand total: 288.695pts of PFS deli-kosher damage.

Post-analysis conclusions:
* the polearm tricks were junk in this build, with all three attacks in TOTAL yielding less averaged damage versus this particular AC30 opponent than half the damage of our worst iterative TWF attack. Obviously this character should not possess an expensive polearm until he’s better able to exploit a two-handed/STR technique. A junk MW polearm would have still been +16 to hit versus the +18 of the 21,000gp weapon, of which downgrading to MW gets us under the 110kgp contest ceiling while only costing 4 or 5pts of average damage out of 288.
* With the worst TWF iteratives doing over 28pts average points of damage each, despite being under 50% to actually land in the first place, meant that Greater TWF was worth taking as a feat — assuming one might be routinely facing opponents who are still standing after eating nine attacks.
* The +12 to confirm threats is...horrifying. Any roll of 15 or above yields a 95% of Mr. Snuggles taking ~77 damage right up the schnoz even on our -10 iteratives.
* Left unclaimed: a potential 20d6 worth of sneak-attack dice.


I should note that I blame Sirthugsalot for this. It was seeing his mention of the dwarf cavalier FCB that started me thinking; How can I make this good?

Without further ado, here's the Swashbuckling Dwarven Knight

build:
Dwarf Daring Champion Cavalier 12

1 weapon focus (falcata)
3 slashing grace
5 skill focus (UMD)
6 dodge
7 crane style
9 improved critical
11 crane wing
12 crane riposte
(Improved unarmed strike via perfectionist shavtoosh)

Teamwork
1 precise strike
9 outflank

Traits
pragmatic activator, heirloom weapon (falcata)

str 13 dex 17+4 belt+3 level=24 con 12+2 race=14 int 12 wis 12+2 race=14 cha 8-2 race=6

10100 +3 mithral shirt
18320 +3 falcata
16000 +4 dex belt
9155 +3 buckler
8000 +2 amulet of NA
8000 +2 ring of protection
12000 Boots of speed
2500 perfectionist shavtoosh
1000 Plume of panache
5000 Dusty rose prism ioun stone
16000 +4 cloak of resistance
7000 Emerald frog
25 Scroll of long arm
8000 Champion’s banner

Order of the hero

AC 34 (+7 armor, +4 shield +2 deflection +2 natural +6 dex +1 insight, +2 dodge)

Attack BAB +12/+12/+7/+2 Dex +7 WF +1 Enh +3 Haste +1 = +24/+24/+19/+14 (Outflank +4 when flanking)
Damage: 1d8+7 dex+22 challenge (12 level, 6 FCB, 4 champion’s banner)+12 precise strike (deed)+5 order (+4 base, +1 champion’s banner) (+1d6 precise strike (teamwork feat) when flanking)


actions:
10 min/level: Activate Emerald Frog figurine as advanced giant frog
1 min/level: read scroll of long arm
Round zero: challenge (swift), activate boots of speed (free), use total defense (full round), emerald frog moves to the side. When enemy attacks deflect attack w/crane wing & make one AoO w/out flanking or teamwork from crane riposte.
Round one: Frog moves to flank at 15’ away from enemy due to the reach of its tongue. It can’t do anything more, ignore it. He then uses greater tactician to give the frog teamwork feats (swift), 5’ steps up, and makes a normal full attack with flanking & teamwork feats. (full round)

AoO damage: 0.75*50.5 + 0.75*0.2*2*38.5 = 49.425
First attack, second attack each damage: 0.95*54 + 0.95*0.2*2*38.5 = 65.93 each, 131.86 total
Third attack: 0.7*54 + 0.7*0.2*2*38.5 = 48.58
Fourth attack: 0.45*54 + 0.45*0.2*2*38.5 = 31.23
Total DPR 261.095
final notes:
There's some stuff in here from previous ideas I went half into and then abandoned, e.g. using Weapon Trick (one-handed) to get the initial attack rather than Crane Wing/Riposte necessitated getting the AC right up there so there's a lot of AC gear. On the one hand that makes it less optimal, on the other it makes it a more believable character IMO. On the gripping hand I'm not sure I'd want to play this character anyway. A non-spellcaster without a lot in the way of special tricks is not my preferred playstyle.

In hindsight and looking at Bad Sam above, the build would probably be more effective with TWF and not worrying about getting the AoO or precise strike. The damage per hit and especially per crit (average 131) is just higher than it needs to be and more attacks would be better.

Liberty's Edge

Quote:

Round zero: challenge (swift), activate boots of speed (free), use total defense (full round), emerald frog moves to the side. When enemy attacks deflect attack w/crane wing & make one AoO w/out flanking or teamwork from crane riposte.

Round one: Frog moves to flank at 15’ away from enemy due to the reach of its tongue. It can’t do anything more, ignore it. He then uses greater tactician to give the frog teamwork feats (swift), 5’ steps up, and makes a normal full attack with flanking & teamwork feats. (full round)

The contest does not specify that you're able to see your opponent or otherwise know from which direction they're coming from in the prep round. You cannot Challenge what you cannot see, and trying to set up a flank-buddy situation will be random-guess placement that'll result in receiving flanks much less than half the time if flank-buddy has a low rate of move (the frog is 30', IIRC) and your opponent stands 10' away from you.

* * *

Everyone: You get to prepare because you've ascertained that combat is imminent for one reason or another, but you have no other information. Abilities or spells that require an opponent-in-sight will not work unless they can be deployed as or in conjunction with readied-actions. (And really: if you could see your opponent in the prep round, you'd just full-attack with ranged equipment, right? Which is why the contest doesn't feature that possibility. The prep round exists to get buffs or summons up-to-speed, and/or readied-actions good-to-go -- nothing more.)


I wonder what a halfling slinger fighter wielding a double sling could do at lvl 12.
Something like:

Halfling mutagenic warrior fighter

vl1 Point blank, precise
lvl2 weapon focus(double sling)
lvl3 slipslinger style
lvl4 two weapon fighting
lvl5 Advanced weapon training(Trained Throw)
lvl6 improoved two weapon fighting
lvl7 deadly aim
lvl8 Rapid shot
lvl9 Clustered shots AWT: focused weapon
Lvl10:Weapon Specialization
lvl11:Improved precise shot
lvl12:??


I find the math for these calculations very confusing but I recently made a ratfolk swashtigator (lamplight/inspired blade) build that worships Milani. (I was going for a sort of community guardian and supporter theme in a Dickensian style slum if anyone's interested). Anyway point is I've since realised that deific obedience (a feat he takes at 11) grants Divine favour that + studied target + mutagen + heroism has lead me to accidentally making a extremely accurate build.

I'd be happy to post it along with an inventory and a list of actions for him to take along with prebuffs if anyone else was willing to do the number crunch bit :)

Shadow Lodge

Chromantic Durgon <3 wrote:

I find the math for these calculations very confusing but I recently made a ratfolk swashtigator (lamplight/inspired blade) build that worships Milani. (I was going for a sort of community guardian and supporter theme in a Dickensian style slum if anyone's interested). Anyway point is I've since realised that deific obedience (a feat he takes at 11) grants Divine favour that + studied target + mutagen + heroism has lead me to accidentally making a extremely accurate build.

I'd be happy to post it along with an inventory and a list of actions for him to take along with prebuffs if anyone else was willing to do the number crunch bit :)

Go ahead and post it. (Note that Studied Target will require your swift action in the "fight" round, so, unless you have a means of tossing up something as a free-action, all of your magic will need to be up and running by the end of the prep round.)

~ ~ ~

The damage/round formula h(d+s)+ft(cd+cb+r) ...looks like Wall of Hurtbrain, but it's really not. Just addition and multiplication, and the cb+r bit almost no builds ever use. It's quite useful to adapt, as it'll start to dawn on you what feats and abilities are overrated and underrated.


okay so the build

Inspired Blade 1/Lamplighter 11
1 weapon focus (Rapier)
1 Swashbuckler's Finesse
1 Fencing Grace
3 Extra Investigator Talent
5 Combat Reflexes
7 Improved Initiative
9 Iron Will
11 Deific Obedience
(If you're interested it goes into improved familiar Lyrakien for the Milani theme.)

Investigator Talent
3) Mutagen
3) Infusion
5) Quick Study
7) Domino Effect
9) Combat Inspiration
11) Sickening Offence

Traits
pragmatic activator, Bruising Intellect

Str 8
Dex 28 (2 From level) (4 From Belt) (4 From mutagen)
Con 14
Int 20 (1 from level) (2 From Headband)
Wis 10
Cha 8

Gear

Spoiler:

10100 +3 mithral shirt
18320 +2 Keen Rapier
16000 +4 dex belt
9155 +3 buckler (Does this work with swashbuckler's? I am super unclear on that)
8000 +2 amulet of NA
8000 +2 ring of protection
12000 Boots of speed
5000 Dusty rose prism ioun stone
9000 +3 cloak of resistance
4000 cracked pale green prism
4000 Headband of Intelligence

Pre buff's
I understand that you allow one buff of 10 minutes per CL and one of 1 minute per CL, however this build really benefits more from having 2 ten minute per level buffs, is that okay?
Mutagen 110 minutes
Heroism 110 minutes (loose this one if you're not okay with the two long term buffs? Its kinda overkill on the to hit anyway)

AC (10+7 Armour +4 Shield +4 Natural Armour +2 Deflection +1 Insight +9 Dex +1 Size) 38 (34 if if the shield thing doesn't work)

Attack Routine is
30/25 (Bab 9, Dex 9, Studied Combat 5, 2 Enhancement, 2 Heroism, 1 Size, 1 Pale Green Prism, 1 Weapon Focus)
Damage
1D4+16 (Dex 9, Studied 5, 2 Enhancement)

Prep Round
Standard Action: Divine Favor

Their Round
He can parry their attack but shouldn't riposte he needs the swift next turn. His to hit on the Parry is 34 (but effectively 30 due to size)

His round
He 5 foot steps into threatening range
Free Action to activate haste boost
Swift Action Studied Target
Full Attack
34/34/29 1D4+19/15–20
On the Final Attack Studied Strike should trigger for an additional 4D6.

Like I said this was just a character concept I came up with for fun and then realized after the fact that he was very very accurate. I'm sure more damage could be achieved be being a human or a Vishkanye, taking weapon proficiency kurki and building for Piranha Strike.

Liberty's Edge

Quote:
Pre buff's ...I understand that you allow one buff of 10 minutes per CL and one of 1 minute per CL, however this build really benefits more from having 2 ten minute per level buffs, is that okay?
You may have two buffs already running before the prep round. During the prep round and the battle round you have the opportunity to get more up.
Quote:
I'm sure more damage could be achieved be being a human or a Vishkanye, taking weapon proficiency kurki and building for Piranha Strike.

Note that Vishkanya are not available in PFS unless granted as a boon: "...Pathfinder Campaign Setting: Inner Sea Races ** To create an aasimar, android, catfolk, changeling, dhampir, fetchling, goblin, grippli, ifrit, oread, ratfolk, samsaran, skinwalker, suli, sylph, tiefling, undine, vanara, or vishkanya character, you must have a Chronicle sheet that opens the race as a legal option at character creation. Aasimars and tieflings that were created and had at least one XP applied before August 14, 2014, remain legal for play."

The DPR challenge doesn't forbid them, but realize that builds containing rare races will be out of the reach of most players in the campaign.


So mutagen and Heroism are okay? Kewl :)

As to the race, thats kewl, I think a human would work just as well as the Vishkanye. I chose ratfolk in the first place for the nice ratials and because I think you could make like a good version of Fagin with one with an interesting asthetic.

Grand Lodge

I have a version of the investigator build that adds 1 level of unchained barb and uses accelerated drinker.

Buffing with heroism and mutgen up involves free rage/furious + swift study + move drink reduce person potion + any standard action buff.

Gloves of marking turn a crit into a buff and a debuff. Sickening strike improves the gap between your attack and theirs. Temp hp keep you standing much longer.


Stabby McStabface, Dagger Artiste Extraordinaire

The Build:

Race Human

Str 12
Dex 15 (+2 Racial) (+3 Lvl 4,8,12) = 20 +6 enhancement = 26
Con 12
Int 12
Wis 12
Cha 14
HP : 8+3 (FCB Bonus)+2*12 (con)+11*5.5 = 95

Traits & Drawbacks
River rat, Finding Your Kin (Legacy of Fire Campaign Trait), Fencer, Hedonistic (drawback)

Skills : (4+1 (human) +1 (trait, finding your kin) per level)
Perception, UMD, Intimidate, Acrobatics, Diplomacy, Sense Motive

Medium (1), Relic Channeler: Spirit, Spirit Bonus (+1), Spirit Power (lesser), Spirit Surge (1d6)
Swashbuckler (1), Flying Blade: Deeds (Derring-Do, Subtle Throw, Opportune Parry and Riposte), Panache(2), Swashbuckler Finesse
Swashbuckler (2), Flying Blade: Charmed Life (3/day)
Swashbuckler (3), Flying Blade: Deeds (Disrupting Counter, Precise Throw, Precise Strike, Swashbuckler Initiative), Nimble (+1)
Swashbuckler (4), Flying Blade: (Bonus Feat, see feats)
Swashbuckler (5), Flying Blade: Flying Blade Training +1
Swashbuckler (6), Flying Blade: Charmed Life (4/day)
Swashbuckler (7), Flying Blade: Deeds (Swashbuckler’s Grace, Superior Feint, Targeted Throw), Nimble (+2)
Swashbuckler (8), Flying Blade: (Bonus Feat, see feats)
Swashbuckler (9), Flying Blade: Flying Blade Training +2
Swashbuckler (10), Flying Blade: Charmed Life (5/day)
Swashbuckler (11), Flying Blade Deeds (Bleeding Wound, Evasive, Subtle Blade), Nimble (+3)

Feats
Spirit Focus (Champion) (1st)
Combat Reflexes (Human Bonus)
Quick Draw (3ed)
Weapon Focus (Dagger) (5th)
Weapon Specialization (Dagger) (Swash buckler 4th level bonus)
Piranha Strike (7th)
Deific Obedience: Pharasma (9th)
Lunge (Swash buckler 8th level bonus)
Critical Focus (11th)

Knacks (2)
Sift, Guidance

External Buffs: Enlarge Person (1 minute buff), Heroism (10 Minute Buff),

Equipment :
Boots of Speed (12000 gp),
Dual-balanced Voidglass Dagger+1 Agile Fortuitous (19302 gp),
Volcanic Shield Buckler, (14155 gp)
Darkleaf Cloth Hide Armor +1 Spirit Binding (8515 gp)
Belt of Incredible Dexterity +6 (36000)
Cracked Pale Green Prism Ioun Stone (4000)
Potion of Heroism (750 gp)
Scroll of Long Arm (10th level) (250 gp)
Cloak of Resistance +2 (4000 gp)
Plume of Panache (1000 gp)
Cestus
MW Throwing Dagger
Spare throwing daggers
~5200 gp worth of misc,

AC: 10+3(dodge, Nimble)+4 (armor) +1 (armor enhancement) +1 (shield) +2 (shield enhancement+ 7 (dex, armor limited) = 27 (and an effective 50% miss chance on the smoke from the buckler)

Fortitude : 3 (Swash 11) + 2 (Con) + 3 (Spirit Bonus) +1 (Competence) +2 (Resistance) +2 (Morale) = 12
Reflex : 7 (Swash 11) +6 Dex +1 (Competence) +2 (Resistance) +2 (Morale) = 18
Will : +2 (Medium 1) + 3 (Swash 11) + +1 (Wis)+ 1 (Competence) +2 (Resistance) +2 (Morale) = 11

BAB +11
Always Bonuses/Penalties : +8 (Swashbuckler Finesse) +2 (sacred: Deific Obedience) +1 enhancement + 1 Competence + 3 Spirit Bonus + 2 Flying Blade Training + 1 (weapon Focus) +2 Morale -3 Piranha Strike= +17

To Hit 28/23/21
Other Bonuses : +1 to hit on AOA with Daggers, +1 haste

Critical threat confirmation bonus: +4 (Critical Focus)

Damage : 1d4 + 1 (enhancement ) +1 (Voidglass) + 8 (Agile) + 11 (Precise Strike) +2 (Flying Blade Training) + (5 Spirit Bonus) +2 (Weapon Specialization) +1 (Trait, River Rat) +6 Piranha Strike. = 1d4 + 37.

Panache : 2 + 2 (Human FCB) + 1(Plume) = 5

The Fight!:

Active buffs: Heroism (up to 3min), Long arm (up to 3min).
Prep round: swift-action activate boots of speed for Haste, ready throwing dagger to attack first enemy that closes to 20’, activate lunge and piranha strike
Enemy attack: 1) our ready-action triggers when they are 20’ away 2) If hit, trigger bleeding wound as a free action (1 panache) 2) Draw magic dagger as a free action. 3) as they close to 10’, they trigger AoO #1 for leaving a threatened square (long arm + lunge). 4) if we hit with AoO #1, Fortuitous weapon property grants us another attack at -5. 5) In response to their attack, use Disrupting Counter (1 panache) to trigger AoO #2 (and Fortuitous has another chance to trigger) 6) Also in response to their attack trigger Opportune Parry and Riposte (1 panache), which if successful allows AoO #3 (and another chance to trigger fortuitous)
Our turn: Full attack with magic dagger (3 attacks +1 haste), trigger precise strike on the 2nd attack (to avoid miss chance from something like major displacement) for an extra 11 dmg (1 Panache).
This sequence spends a total of 4 panache if everything goes off, but may gain some via critical hits (or killing something…). He also has multiple spirit surges available in case of misses… Which I am not going to try and figure out.

Damage Math:

MW Thrown Dagger : +32 to hit DMG 1d4 + 21 (no piranha strike – not melee, no magic weapon – no agile, voidglass,enhancement)
.95(22.5+11)+(.2*.95)(
AoO #1 : +30 to hit, dmg 1d4 + 37
AoO #2 : +30 to hit, dmg 1d4 + 37
Opportune Parry Defense Roll : +27 to hit (an AoO, -2 for a large opponent)
Potential AoO #3 : +30 to hit, dmg 1d4 + 37
Fortuitous Attack (assumed) : +25 to hit, dmg 1d4 + 37
Full Attack with Haste +29/+29/+24/+19, dmg 1d4 + 37 (and +11 on the second attack)

I hope this table comes through but I doubt it...

Attack h d s t f c b r DMG
Thrown 0.95 12.5 11 0.2 0.95 1 0 0 24.7
AoO 1-3 0.95 28.5 11 0.2 0.95 1 0 0 128.82
Fortuitous 0.8 28.5 11 0.2 0.95 1 0 0 37.015
#1 0.95 28.5 11 0.2 0.95 1 0 0 42.94
#2 0.95 28.5 22 0.2 0.95 1 0 0 53.39
#3 0.75 28.5 11 0.2 0.95 1 0 0 35.04
#4 0.5 28.5 11 0.2 0.7 1 0 0 23.74

Total 345.645

Assuming I have done the math right, 345.645 dmg. In practice, this build is actually peaking at 13th level, picking up 2 feats, including Signature Deed: Disrupting Counter, so he can use it on every melee attack, which then looks at lot like a Come And Get Me barbarian. Without sucking all that damage. Also, in real play, the build would see more emphasis on defence, both item selection and feats particularly…

Liberty's Edge

pad300 wrote:

Stabby McStabface, Dagger Artiste Extraordinaire

Traits & Drawbacks
River rat, Finding Your Kin (Legacy of Fire Campaign Trait), Fencer, Hedonistic (drawback)...

Drawbacks are not PFS-legal. Campaign traits from Legacy of Fire are not PFS-legal.
Quote:
Dual-balanced Voidglass Dagger+1 Agile Fortuitous (19302 gp),

Voidglass weapons and armor are not PFS-legal.

(Note: the Dual-balanced weapon property is a waste of 2000gp in this build because its fighting style requires using a single weapon.)

Quote:
Volcanic Shield Buckler, (14155 gp)
A "Volcanic Shield" is a specific named magic item (a +1 bashing heavy steel shield). In PFS, you are not able to pay a few gold less and call it a "buckler" for empty-hand swashbuckling purposes. (Unless, of course, you found it listed that way on a chronicle sheet, in which case you're good to go.)
Quote:

External Buffs: Enlarge Person (1 minute buff), Heroism (10 Minute Buff),

...
BAB +11
Always Bonuses/Penalties : +8 (Swashbuckler Finesse) +2 (sacred: Deific Obedience) +1 enhancement + 1 Competence + 3 Spirit Bonus + 2 Flying Blade Training + 1 (weapon Focus) +2 Morale -3 Piranha Strike= +17

To Hit 28/23/21
Other Bonuses : +1 to hit on AOA with Daggers, +1 haste

I do not see the -1 size penalty from being Enlarged (or the further -1 penalty to the readied ranged attack due to DEX-2).
Quote:

Medium (1), Relic Channeler: Spirit, Spirit Bonus (+1), Spirit Power (lesser), Spirit Surge (1d6)

...
Feats: ....Spirit Focus (Champion) (1st) ...
If you're a medium channeling the spirit of the Champion, you are in violation of both parts of the Taboo during the DPR challenge (you're voluntarily accepting arcane magic buffs, and making attacks with multiple weapons rather than a "specific manufactured weapon"), and would incur the Taboo's –2 penalty to attacks, damage, saves, etc.
Quote:
Enemy attack: 1) our ready-action triggers when they are 20’ away 2) If hit, trigger bleeding wound as a free action (1 panache) 2) Draw magic dagger as a free action....

How are you gaining a free-action after your ready action has triggered during the opponent's turn?

(BTW, with all three of Long Arm, Enlarge and Lunge activated, your melee reach should be either 20' or 25' depending upon how one ruleslawyers stacking the first two, so you wouldn't need to be throwing anyway in this circumstance.)

Quote:

3) as they close to 10’, they trigger AoO #1 for leaving a threatened square (long arm + lunge).

4) if we hit with AoO #1, Fortuitous weapon property grants us another attack at -5. 5) In response to their attack, use Disrupting Counter (1 panache) to trigger AoO #2 (and Fortuitous has another chance to trigger)
The Fortuitous property may only be triggered once per round. (You could of course wield a pair of Fortuitous weapons and attempt to receive AoOs with both of them, but then most of your other swashbuckler goodies shut off with two occupied hands.)
Quote:

Opportune Parry Defense Roll : +27 to hit (an AoO, -2 for a large opponent)

Potential AoO #3 : +30 to hit, dmg 1d4 + 37
Fortuitous Attack (assumed) : +25 to hit, dmg 1d4 + 37...

You can't "assume" anything if a d20 is involved. The triggering AoO itself is at best 95% to succeed, and then the Fortuitous attack itself also is at best 95% to succeed.

____

I haven't parsed all the math, but given the other problems in the build as well as the anomalously high claim of 345, I'm guessing it's off.


Mike Schneider wrote:
pad300 wrote:

Stabby McStabface, Dagger Artiste Extraordinaire

Traits & Drawbacks
River rat, Finding Your Kin (Legacy of Fire Campaign Trait), Fencer, Hedonistic (drawback)...

Drawbacks are not PFS-legal. Campaign traits from Legacy of Fire are not PFS-legal.
Quote:
Dual-balanced Voidglass Dagger+1 Agile Fortuitous (19302 gp),

Voidglass weapons and armor are not PFS-legal.

(Note: the Dual-balanced weapon property is a waste of 2000gp in this build because its fighting style requires using a single weapon.)

Quote:
Volcanic Shield Buckler, (14155 gp)
A "Volcanic Shield" is a specific named magic item (a +1 bashing heavy steel shield). In PFS, you are not able to pay a few gold less and call it a "buckler" for empty-hand swashbuckling purposes. (Unless, of course, you found it listed that way on a chronicle sheet, in which case you're good to go.)
Quote:

External Buffs: Enlarge Person (1 minute buff), Heroism (10 Minute Buff),

...
BAB +11
Always Bonuses/Penalties : +8 (Swashbuckler Finesse) +2 (sacred: Deific Obedience) +1 enhancement + 1 Competence + 3 Spirit Bonus + 2 Flying Blade Training + 1 (weapon Focus) +2 Morale -3 Piranha Strike= +17

To Hit 28/23/21
Other Bonuses : +1 to hit on AOA with Daggers, +1 haste

I do not see the -1 size penalty from being Enlarged (or the further -1 penalty to the readied ranged attack due to DEX-2).
Quote:

Medium (1), Relic Channeler: Spirit, Spirit Bonus (+1), Spirit Power (lesser), Spirit Surge (1d6)

...
Feats: ....Spirit Focus (Champion) (1st) ...
If you're a medium channeling the spirit of the Champion, you are in violation of both parts of the Taboo during the DPR challenge (you're voluntarily accepting arcane magic buffs, and making attacks with multiple weapons rather than a "specific manufactured weapon"), and would incur the Taboo's –2 penalty to attacks, damage, saves, etc.
Quote:
Enemy attack: 1) our ready-action triggers when they are 20’ away 2) If hit, trigger bleeding wound as a free action (1
...

Thank you for the edit and review.

1) I don't play PFS. This is the Pathfinder advice forum. PFS organized play has its own forums if you scroll down roughly 20 or so headings...

That said:

You can drop the campaign trait, the drawback and the buckler without impacting the damage calculations at all. For 500 more gp, you could convert the Voidglass to Bloodcrystal, and given the bleed damage inflicted in the thrown dagger attack (95% likely to hit), it would not impact the dmg output at all.

2a) WRT to the buffs, you have caught an editing error. All references to to enlarge person should in fact be long arm; as you have indicated, enlarge has negatives. The 2 standing buffs at the start of the "fight sequence" are heroism (10 minutes/level) and long-arm (1 min/lvl).
2b) Further the reference to the dual balanced property is also an error - it should not be there, and has not been paid for in the price of the weapon.
3) WRT to Taboo, that is a Medium feature that comes on line at 2nd level - the build does not have it. It can surge once without penalty, next surge it gets a -2 to init and the champion influence penalty (and the alertness feat through the Relic Caller archetype). A further 2 surges and it becomes an NPC for the day.
4) You don't need to "gain" a free action. Free actions are free, they can happen whenever the player wants. The build has quickdraw (3ed level feat), drawing a weapon is a free action w/o being part of a move.
5) I recognize that Fortuitous can only be triggered once per round. However, with 3 AoO's generated and the to hit bonuses involved, I was unwilling figure out the probability of the fortuitous attack not being triggered by those 3 attacks. Especially given 6,
6) The other assumption which may be more questionable, is the triggering of the 3ed AoO by the succesful use of Opportune Parry and Riposte, which requires beating a non-challenge specified hostile attack role, with a +27 defense roll.
7) Finally, I think the original math is ~ 8 pts low, due to not including the bleed damage from bleeding wound.

I would be happy to hear any mathematical suggestions you have for the issues in 5 and 6.

Liberty's Edge

pad300 wrote:
1) I don't play PFS. This is the Pathfinder advice forum. PFS organized play has its own forums if you scroll down roughly 20 or so headings...

That was one of the rules put forward in the original post, characters must be PFS legal.

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