| 3 people marked this as FAQ candidate. |
Can you prepare a spell with a metamagic feat that is not valid for the spell at the time you memorized it but might be valid at the time of casting. Specifically I'm thinking of this combo:
Snapdragon FireworksA favorite display at halfling midsummer festivals, this spell lets you create fireworks in the shape of tiny dragons. Once per round, as a move action, you may designate a target 5-foot-square within range and launch a pyrotechnic in that direction. The pyrotechnic takes a zigzag path from you to that square, always missing creatures and objects in its path, and detonates in that square with a bang and a colorful burst of fire and light. Creatures in the target square take 1d4 points of fire damage and are dazzled for 1 round (Reflex half, a successful save negates the dazzled condition). Normally when this spell is used as part of a festival, the chosen target is high in the sky to increase visibility and protect observers.
Rime SpellBenefit: The frost of your cold spell clings to the target, impeding it for a short time. A rime spell causes creatures that takes cold damage from the spell to become entangled for a number of rounds equal to the original level of the spell.
This feat only affects spells with the cold descriptor. A rime spell uses up a spell slot one level higher than the spell's actual level.
Heighten SpellYou can cast spells as if they were a higher level.
Benefit: A heightened spell has a higher spell level than normal (up to a maximum of 9th level). Unlike other metamagic feats, Heighten Spell actually increases the effective level of the spell that it modifies. All effects dependent on spell level (such as saving throw DCs and ability to penetrate a lesser globe of invulnerability) are calculated according to the heightened level.
and
Versatile Evocation (Su): When you cast an evocation spell that does acid, cold, electricity, or fire damage, you may change the damage dealt to one of the other four energy types. This changes the descriptor of the spell to match the new energy type. Any non-damaging effects remain unchanged unless the new energy type invalidates them (an ice storm that deals fire damage might still provide a penalty on Perception checks due to smoke, but it would not create difficult terrain). Such effects are subject to GM discretion. You can use this ability a number of times per day equal to 3 + your Intelligence modifier.
Basically take snaps, put a rime spell on it, heighten it by two levels (making it a level 4 spell that entangles for three rounds) then swap the damage type at the time of casting to cold damage to make the entire thing valid. Shoot off an unsavable, three round entangle with each move action.
I do not think you can apply the rime spell feat to snapdragon fireworks because of this: "This feat only affects spells with the cold descriptor."
Since that spell does not have the cold descriptor the feat cannot be applied.
My take on versatile evocation is it is changing spell damage, not the spell descriptor, unless of course the descriptor defines the spell damage.
I could be wrong.
:)
I do not think you can apply the rime spell feat to snapdragon fireworks because of this: "This feat only affects spells with the cold descriptor."
Since that spell does not have the cold descriptor the feat cannot be applied.
My take on versatile evocation is it is changing spell damage, not the spell descriptor, unless of course the descriptor defines the spell damage.I could be wrong.
:)
This changes the descriptor of the spell to match the new energy type
It only affects spells with the cold descriptor, but does the spell have to have that descriptor when it's prepared or only when it's cast?
I do not think you can apply the rime spell feat to snapdragon fireworks because of this: "This feat only affects spells with the cold descriptor."
Since that spell does not have the cold descriptor the feat cannot be applied.
My take on versatile evocation is it is changing spell damage, not the spell descriptor, unless of course the descriptor defines the spell damage.I could be wrong.
:)
This changes the descriptor of the spell to match the new energy typeIt only affects spells with the cold descriptor, but does the spell have to have that descriptor when it's prepared or only when it's cast?
My best guess is when the spell is prepared.
I am intrigued by this question and will be waiting for more knowledgeable minds than mine for comment.
:)
That would be interesting if this was a combo limited to sorcerers.
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a spontaneous caster could do it, but a prepared caster cant prepare it with the cold descriptor (or at least the posted build couldn't).
if the metamagic feat could be applied spontaneously (like from a metamagic rod) it would work.
or taking the energy substitution feat would let you do it since you can prepare it as a cold spell.
i suggest the background trait that lets you ignore 1 level of spell adjustment when metamagicing a particular spell.
also i think by RAW you vant apply the same metamagic feat to a spell twice, so no double heighten.
It's not a double heighten spell, it's heighten spell to increase the spell by 2 levels. Heighten spell allows you to increase the actual spell level up to 9th, taking up a spell slot of the spell's new (actual) level.
Well with heighten spell youncould spend a feat to do preferred spell snaps and cast spell spontaneously, but I'm loath to waste a feat on snaps (though for a three round no save entangle maybe I should get over it).
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It's not a double heighten spell, it's heighten spell to increase the spell by 2 levels. Heighten spell allows you to increase the actual spell level up to 9th, taking up a spell slot of the spell's new (actual) level.
hmm how about that. i always thought heighten was just +1 level.
thanks for pointing that out to me
RAW I don't think it works. When you memorize spells it needs to be legal.
From the feats section:
"Metamagic feats cannot be used with all spells. See the specific feat descriptions for the spells that a particular feat can't modify."
That being said, I'd allow this at my table, but would make you mark off a use of Versatile Evocation when memorizing spells, to mem it as a cold spell.
Well with heighten spell youncould spend a feat to do preferred spell snaps and cast spell spontaneously, but I'm loath to waste a feat on snaps (though for a three round no save entangle maybe I should get over it).
You quoted snaps as having a Reflex save for 1/2 damage. A successful save and a roll of 1 for damage = no entanglement.
Not a devastating hindrance, but not a 'no save' occasion either.
Well with heighten spell youncould spend a feat to do preferred spell snaps and cast spell spontaneously, but I'm loath to waste a feat on snaps (though for a three round no save entangle maybe I should get over it).You quoted snaps as having a Reflex save for 1/2 damage. A successful save and a roll of 1 for damage = no entanglement.
Not a devastating hindrance, but not a 'no save' occasion either.
Does damage get rounded down or up in such a situation?
Does damage get rounded down or up in such a situation?
Down, per the text for saving throws for 1/2 damage (and rounding in general in PF).
Take a level in Oracle to grab the Freezing Spell revelation of the Water Mystery to add a free Slow (that is subject to the saving throw...)
Or UMD a ring of revelations.