paizo.com Recent Posts in Deity Stats
paizo.com Recent Posts in Deity Stats
2011-07-07T14:56:15Z
2011-07-07T14:56:15Z
Re: Forums/Pathfinder First Edition: General Discussion: Deity Stats
Sauce987654321
https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2mihu&page=2?Deity-Stats#97
2017-07-27T03:14:28Z
2017-07-26T16:19:20Z
<p>I still don't understand people's mindframe about this topic. </p>
<p>Pathfinder Demigods, as in being close to a full deity, somehow should be light years away when the max power of a Demigod is CR30. What goes in between then? Nothing? I feel like common sense would say that full godhood starts at CR31.</p>
I still don't understand people's mindframe about this topic.
Pathfinder Demigods, as in being close to a full deity, somehow should be light years away when the max power of a Demigod is CR30. What goes in between then? Nothing? I feel like common sense would say that full godhood starts at CR31.
Sauce987654321
2017-07-26T16:19:20Z
Re: Forums/Pathfinder First Edition: General Discussion: Deity Stats
Kirth Gersen
https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2mihu&page=2?Deity-Stats#96
2018-05-06T01:43:07Z
2017-07-26T15:30:39Z
<div class="messageboard-quotee">Lady-J wrote:</div><blockquote> a god should be a quadruple digit cr encounter </blockquote><p>Which means that hundreds of lesser gods can't oppose one major one. Way to go.
Lady-J wrote:a god should be a quadruple digit cr encounter
Which means that hundreds of lesser gods can't oppose one major one. Way to go.
Kirth Gersen
2017-07-26T15:30:39Z
Re: Forums/Pathfinder First Edition: General Discussion: Deity Stats
Wei Ji the Learner
https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2mihu&page=2?Deity-Stats#95
2017-07-26T11:29:00Z
2017-07-26T11:29:00Z
<p>In a home run, I could see a GM 'stat-ing' out an 'avatar' for a given deity.</p>
<p>...and it's nothing more than a MMO-esque sort of interaction device for said deity with •all• cheat codes enabled for the deity •only•.</p>
<p>Or, in other words.</p>
<p><b><span class=messageboard-bigger>NOPE</span></b></p>
<p><span class=messageboard-ooc>Unless, of course, that's the GM's goal, is to have players attacking gods all day and all night, then just disregard the above comment to the thread that's been raised harder and faster than Urgathoa in the waiting line at the Pharasman Department of Soul Vehicle Relations...</span></p>
In a home run, I could see a GM 'stat-ing' out an 'avatar' for a given deity.
...and it's nothing more than a MMO-esque sort of interaction device for said deity with *all* cheat codes enabled for the deity *only*.
Or, in other words.
NOPE
Unless, of course, that's the GM's goal, is to have players attacking gods all day and all night, then just disregard the above comment to the thread that's been raised harder and faster than Urgathoa in the waiting line at the Pharasman Department of...
Wei Ji the Learner
2017-07-26T11:29:00Z
Re: Forums/Pathfinder First Edition: General Discussion: Deity Stats
Vidmaster7
https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2mihu&page=2?Deity-Stats#94
2017-07-26T11:25:34Z
2017-07-26T09:03:31Z
<p>Well I'll say this you guys broke out some god-level necromancy on this thread.</p>
Well I'll say this you guys broke out some god-level necromancy on this thread.
Vidmaster7
2017-07-26T09:03:31Z
Re: Forums/Pathfinder First Edition: General Discussion: Deity Stats
Eltacolibre
https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2mihu&page=2?Deity-Stats#93
2017-07-26T08:57:34Z
2017-07-26T08:57:34Z
<p>If we follow their pattern of average DC, Iomedae is probably CR 35 at minimum due to her DC 40 abilities. (See WotR for more details).</p>
<p>And Iomedae is one of the youngest deities of the setting. If we assume that there is still an order of importance between the gods.</p>
<p>So most likely deities are around CR 35 to CR 40, if someone ever wanted to bother stating them out.</p>
If we follow their pattern of average DC, Iomedae is probably CR 35 at minimum due to her DC 40 abilities. (See WotR for more details).
And Iomedae is one of the youngest deities of the setting. If we assume that there is still an order of importance between the gods.
So most likely deities are around CR 35 to CR 40, if someone ever wanted to bother stating them out.
Eltacolibre
2017-07-26T08:57:34Z
Re: Forums/Pathfinder First Edition: General Discussion: Deity Stats
Nethys, "Elder God" (alias of The Sideromancer)
https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2mihu&page=2?Deity-Stats#92
2017-07-25T22:34:54Z
2017-07-25T22:34:54Z
<p>Man, I should get my stats done by you guys! I'd be <b>AWESOME!!!</b></p>
Man, I should get my stats done by you guys! I'd be AWESOME!!!
Nethys, "Elder God" (alias of The Sideromancer)
2017-07-25T22:34:54Z
Re: Forums/Pathfinder First Edition: General Discussion: Deity Stats
Lady-J
https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2mihu&page=2?Deity-Stats#91
2017-07-25T21:47:40Z
2017-07-25T21:47:40Z
<div class="messageboard-quotee">Kirth Gersen wrote:</div><blockquote> <div class="messageboard-quotee">BenS wrote:</div><blockquote> I was always a fan of earlier editions breaking the gods into relative power categories (e.g., Greater, Intermediate, Lesser, Demi-, and even hero-deity > quasi-deity). Why? B/c if, for plot reasons, I wanted god or goddess A to slay or take on god or goddess B, I would have ways to figure out how plausible that was.</blockquote><p>This is especially important because a lot of people don't understand that CR is a log scale, not a linear one. Having a CR 40 god is fine and dandy — until you realize that means it is literally <i>64 times more powerful</i> than a CR 28 lesser god, and therefore even a dozen such lesser gods working together have absolutely no chance of opposing it.
<p>Also, it should be clear that 20th level PCs can actually do what demigods in myth and legend can do — including creating their own worlds. Therefore, if demigods are CR 20, you'd actually want lesser gods and demon princes to be CR 24 if a party of 20th level PCs can oppose them, and intermediate gods to be CR 28 if parties lesser gods can oppose them. That means a CR cap of maybe 32 for greater gods, and anything CR 40 is beyond the power of any being(s) in the multiverse to oppose except all the gods in the entire setting working in concert. </blockquote><p>a god should be a quadruple digit cr encounter
Kirth Gersen wrote:BenS wrote: I was always a fan of earlier editions breaking the gods into relative power categories (e.g., Greater, Intermediate, Lesser, Demi-, and even hero-deity > quasi-deity). Why? B/c if, for plot reasons, I wanted god or goddess A to slay or take on god or goddess B, I would have ways to figure out how plausible that was.
This is especially important because a lot of people don't understand that CR is a log scale, not a linear one. Having a CR 40 god is fine and...
Lady-J
2017-07-25T21:47:40Z
Re: Forums/Pathfinder First Edition: General Discussion: Deity Stats
Kirth Gersen
https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2mihu&page=2?Deity-Stats#90
2018-05-06T01:48:18Z
2017-07-25T19:06:43Z
<div class="messageboard-quotee">BenS wrote:</div><blockquote> I was always a fan of earlier editions breaking the gods into relative power categories (e.g., Greater, Intermediate, Lesser, Demi-, and even hero-deity > quasi-deity). Why? B/c if, for plot reasons, I wanted god or goddess A to slay or take on god or goddess B, I would have ways to figure out how plausible that was.</blockquote><p>This is especially important because a lot of people don't understand that CR is a log scale, not a linear one. Having a CR 40 god is fine and dandy — until you realize that means it is literally <i>64 times more powerful</i> than a CR 28 lesser god, and therefore even a dozen such lesser gods working together have absolutely no chance of opposing it.
<p>Also, it should be clear that 20th level PCs can actually do what demigods in myth and legend can do — including creating their own worlds. Therefore, if demigods are CR 20, you'd actually want lesser gods and demon princes to be CR 24 if a party of 20th level PCs can oppose them, and intermediate gods to be CR 28 if parties lesser gods can oppose them. That means a CR cap of maybe 32 for greater gods, and anything CR 40 is beyond the power of any being(s) in the multiverse to oppose except all the gods in the entire setting working in concert.</p>
BenS wrote:I was always a fan of earlier editions breaking the gods into relative power categories (e.g., Greater, Intermediate, Lesser, Demi-, and even hero-deity > quasi-deity). Why? B/c if, for plot reasons, I wanted god or goddess A to slay or take on god or goddess B, I would have ways to figure out how plausible that was.
This is especially important because a lot of people don't understand that CR is a log scale, not a linear one. Having a CR 40 god is fine and dandy -- until you...
Kirth Gersen
2017-07-25T19:06:43Z
Re: Forums/Pathfinder First Edition: General Discussion: Deity Stats
justaworm
https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2mihu&page=2?Deity-Stats#89
2017-07-25T16:47:21Z
2017-07-25T16:46:04Z
<div class="messageboard-quotee">Ring_of_Gyges wrote:</div><blockquote><br />
<br />
If you're running Rise of the Runelords and it looks like Karzoug is going to awaken and rebuild Thassilon, the gods are assumed not to directly intervene. This means either (a) they don't care, (b) they can't stop/aid him, or © both. </p>
<p>(A) isn't terribly plausible. If Serenrae is NG she should care that a lot of people are going to suffer if the BBEG's plan comes to fruition. If Gorum loves massive wars he should care if the BBEG is proposing to start one. The idea that the gods are indifferent as to how life proceeds on Golarion is an option, but it tends to undercut clerics as reasonable character options.</p>
<p>(B) is equally problematic. Whatever powers Serenrae (or whoever) has personally, the Bestiaries are full of outsider servants who could reshape the mortal world in dramatic ways. Why not send them? Divine cold wars are popular, the gods have all agreed not to act directly for fear of laying waste to the world etc... etc... But what about Cheliax? What about the Worldwound? Asmodeus lent a human faction a bunch of devils and took over a nation. The Abyss is literally spewing hordes of demons out into Golarion on a semi regular basis. How is that consistent with divine arms control? </p>
<p>I'd much rather see some sort of cannon discussion of what the gods' politics look like and what controls when they do or don't intervene. </blockquote><p>There is a more likely the case <b>(d)</b> as well, where the gods let mortals decide their fate. They aid, they counsel, but ultimately let mortals rise to the occasion and shine or fail and deal with the consequences. Even something as potent as another earthfall still should be countered through mortal heroes given choices to act or not. If they don't, then the after effects of such a cataclysm will surely give rise to new heroes.
<p>Now when a god steps in and threatens to upset balance and/or existence (Rovagug) then they directly intervene since mortals, even the best of them, have no chance to resolve the situation.</p>
<p>Weiss and Hickman laid this view of the gods out very well in their Dragonlance universe.</p>
Ring_of_Gyges wrote:If you're running Rise of the Runelords and it looks like Karzoug is going to awaken and rebuild Thassilon, the gods are assumed not to directly intervene. This means either (a) they don't care, (b) they can't stop/aid him, or (c) both. (A) isn't terribly plausible. If Serenrae is NG she should care that a lot of people are going to suffer if the BBEG's plan comes to fruition. If Gorum loves massive wars he should care if the BBEG is proposing to start one. The idea that...
justaworm
2017-07-25T16:46:04Z
Re: Forums/Pathfinder First Edition: General Discussion: Deity Stats
Rysky
https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2mihu&page=2?Deity-Stats#88
2017-07-25T12:56:47Z
2017-07-25T12:53:38Z
<p>They've pretty much discarded Deity rankings, so I wouldn't put much stock into that.</p>
<p>Even moreso since the spell references the "Pathfinder <b>Chronicles</b>" setting ( which was 3.5) and not The Inner Sea World Guide.</p>
They've pretty much discarded Deity rankings, so I wouldn't put much stock into that.
Even moreso since the spell references the "Pathfinder Chronicles" setting ( which was 3.5) and not The Inner Sea World Guide.
Rysky
2017-07-25T12:53:38Z
Re: Forums/Pathfinder First Edition: General Discussion: Deity Stats
Alzrius
https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2mihu&page=2?Deity-Stats#87
2017-07-25T12:32:23Z
2017-07-25T12:32:23Z
<div class="messageboard-quotee">Klorox wrote:</div><blockquote> <div class="messageboard-quotee">DGRM44 wrote:</div><blockquote><p> It would still be really cool to stat them and then slay them! YES! We used to love our Dieties and Demi-Gods book back in the day.</p>
<p>Btw, what is the 3.5 book that stated the Gods? </blockquote>technically, the Deities and Demigods book was 3.0, it was never updated. </blockquote><p>It had a section in the official <a href="http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/dnd/20030718a" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">D&D v.3.5 Accessory Update Booklet</a>.
<p>It's also worth noting that Paizo has tipped their hand regarding the power level of Golarion's deities before. The listing for the <i>contact other plane</i> spell - and this is ONLY in the Core Rulebook, not in the PRD or d20PFSRD - says that Golarion's deities are intermediate deities. So if you use the <i>Deities & Demigods</i> rules, they're all divine rank 11-15.</p>
Klorox wrote:DGRM44 wrote:It would still be really cool to stat them and then slay them! YES! We used to love our Dieties and Demi-Gods book back in the day.
Btw, what is the 3.5 book that stated the Gods?
technically, the Deities and Demigods book was 3.0, it was never updated. It had a section in the official D&D v.3.5 Accessory Update Booklet. It's also worth noting that Paizo has tipped their hand regarding the power level of Golarion's deities before. The listing for the contact other...
Alzrius
2017-07-25T12:32:23Z
Re: Forums/Pathfinder First Edition: General Discussion: Deity Stats
Ring_of_Gyges
https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2mihu&page=2?Deity-Stats#86
2017-07-25T16:05:59Z
2017-07-25T04:42:40Z
<div class="messageboard-quotee">Balancer wrote:</div><blockquote>The answer here has been given by paizo before, they're not going to explain what the divine rules are because it gives them more narritive room to work with. </blockquote><p>I agree, but it's a terrible answer.
<p>Imagine if they said "Abrogail Thrune is a sorceress but we're not going to make rules about what spells do because it gives us more options. This way we can have stories about her leveling mountain ranges and stories about her being killed by an Orc. It'll be great." That isn't flexibility, that's Calvin Ball.</p>
<p>Deciding what the game world contains and producing rules to model how it works is literally 100% of a RPG writer's job.</p>
Balancer wrote:The answer here has been given by paizo before, they're not going to explain what the divine rules are because it gives them more narritive room to work with.
I agree, but it's a terrible answer. Imagine if they said "Abrogail Thrune is a sorceress but we're not going to make rules about what spells do because it gives us more options. This way we can have stories about her leveling mountain ranges and stories about her being killed by an Orc. It'll be great." That isn't...
Ring_of_Gyges
2017-07-25T04:42:40Z
Re: Forums/Pathfinder First Edition: General Discussion: Deity Stats
Irontruth
https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2mihu&page=2?Deity-Stats#85
2017-07-25T02:22:11Z
2017-07-25T02:22:11Z
<p>Recently in a campaign the players had to decide whether to kill a god or not. We were playing E8.</p>
<p>Long-story short, an elemental god had been imprisoned in a near-death like state. She was imprisoned in a small demi-plane, where an elder-god had been imprisoned with her. The elemental god was badly wounded, and the elder-god was feeding off her life-force for all eternity.</p>
<p>The players had acquired a dagger that was an artifact created by a god, which was the weapon originally used to wound the elemental god. Any being killed by the dagger experienced a true death, a destruction of its soul that was irreparable. The players were faced with a choice: use the dagger to kill the god, or use it to free her from the elder-god. The choice had ramifications because the religion on the mortal plane had become fragmented, either choice would lead to a unification, but under a different god.</p>
<p>I didn't stat out either the elemental god or the elder-god. If the dagger was used, they died. If they tried some other method, the players would fail, possibly die.</p>
<p>Killing a god should be possible, but it should be a matter of story.</p>
Recently in a campaign the players had to decide whether to kill a god or not. We were playing E8.
Long-story short, an elemental god had been imprisoned in a near-death like state. She was imprisoned in a small demi-plane, where an elder-god had been imprisoned with her. The elemental god was badly wounded, and the elder-god was feeding off her life-force for all eternity.
The players had acquired a dagger that was an artifact created by a god, which was the weapon originally used to wound...
Irontruth
2017-07-25T02:22:11Z
Re: Forums/Pathfinder First Edition: General Discussion: Deity Stats
BenS
https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2mihu&page=2?Deity-Stats#84
2017-07-25T01:53:34Z
2017-07-25T01:53:34Z
<p>I have zero interest in PCs or even NPCs killing off any gods, but I was always a fan of earlier editions breaking the gods into relative power categories (e.g., Greater, Intermediate, Lesser, Demi-, and even hero-deity > quasi-deity). Why? B/c if, for plot reasons, I wanted god or goddess A to slay or take on god or goddess B, I would have ways to figure out how plausible that was.</p>
<p>I don't need a specific Divine Rank 1-20 scheme; that might be tedious for Paizo to put together. But I would really, really like if they broke them into tiers like the above.</p>
I have zero interest in PCs or even NPCs killing off any gods, but I was always a fan of earlier editions breaking the gods into relative power categories (e.g., Greater, Intermediate, Lesser, Demi-, and even hero-deity > quasi-deity). Why? B/c if, for plot reasons, I wanted god or goddess A to slay or take on god or goddess B, I would have ways to figure out how plausible that was.
I don't need a specific Divine Rank 1-20 scheme; that might be tedious for Paizo to put together. But I would...
BenS
2017-07-25T01:53:34Z
Re: Forums/Pathfinder First Edition: General Discussion: Deity Stats
Balancer
https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2mihu&page=2?Deity-Stats#83
2017-07-26T11:23:05Z
2017-07-25T01:44:23Z
<div class="messageboard-quotee">Ring_of_Gyges wrote:</div><blockquote><p> A partial approach to literally assigning Serenrae an AC is giving more attention to what they can do in a big picture sense.</p>
<p>For example, if someone recreates Earthfall and the PCs fail to stop it can the gods stop it? Golarion has very little in print about what the gods' politics are and what they can (and can't) do in practical terms to achieve their goals.</p>
<p>If you're running Rise of the Runelords and it looks like Karzoug is going to awaken and rebuild Thassilon, the gods are assumed not to directly intervene. This means either (a) they don't care, (b) they can't stop/aid him, or © both. </p>
<p>(A) isn't terribly plausible. If Serenrae is NG she should care that a lot of people are going to suffer if the BBEG's plan comes to fruition. If Gorum loves massive wars he should care if the BBEG is proposing to start one. The idea that the gods are indifferent as to how life proceeds on Golarion is an option, but it tends to undercut clerics as reasonable character options.</p>
<p>(B) is equally problematic. Whatever powers Serenrae (or whoever) has personally, the Bestiaries are full of outsider servants who could reshape the mortal world in dramatic ways. Why not send them? Divine cold wars are popular, the gods have all agreed not to act directly for fear of laying waste to the world etc... etc... But what about Cheliax? What about the Worldwound? Asmodeus lent a human faction a bunch of devils and took over a nation. The Abyss is literally spewing hordes of demons out into Golarion on a semi regular basis. How is that consistent with divine arms control? </p>
<p>I'd much rather see some sort of cannon discussion of what the gods' politics look like and what controls when they do or don't intervene. </blockquote><p>The answer here has been given by paizo before, they're not going to explain what the divine rules are because it gives them more narritive room to work with.
Ring_of_Gyges wrote:A partial approach to literally assigning Serenrae an AC is giving more attention to what they can do in a big picture sense.
For example, if someone recreates Earthfall and the PCs fail to stop it can the gods stop it? Golarion has very little in print about what the gods' politics are and what they can (and can't) do in practical terms to achieve their goals.
If you're running Rise of the Runelords and it looks like Karzoug is going to awaken and rebuild Thassilon, the...
Balancer
2017-07-25T01:44:23Z
Re: Forums/Pathfinder First Edition: General Discussion: Deity Stats
Ventnor
https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2mihu&page=2?Deity-Stats#82
2017-07-25T01:40:25Z
2017-07-25T01:40:25Z
<p>The best way to kill a God is to find the right macguffin.</p>
<p>There's a macguffin for everything.</p>
The best way to kill a God is to find the right macguffin.
There's a macguffin for everything.
Ventnor
2017-07-25T01:40:25Z
Re: Forums/Pathfinder First Edition: General Discussion: Deity Stats
Ring_of_Gyges
https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2mihu&page=2?Deity-Stats#81
2017-07-27T15:52:18Z
2017-07-25T01:31:15Z
<p>A partial approach to literally assigning Serenrae an AC is giving more attention to what they can do in a big picture sense.</p>
<p>For example, if someone recreates Earthfall and the PCs fail to stop it can the gods stop it? Golarion has very little in print about what the gods' politics are and what they can (and can't) do in practical terms to achieve their goals.</p>
<p>If you're running Rise of the Runelords and it looks like Karzoug is going to awaken and rebuild Thassilon, the gods are assumed not to directly intervene. This means either (a) they don't care, (b) they can't stop/aid him, or © both. </p>
<p>(A) isn't terribly plausible. If Serenrae is NG she should care that a lot of people are going to suffer if the BBEG's plan comes to fruition. If Gorum loves massive wars he should care if the BBEG is proposing to start one. The idea that the gods are indifferent as to how life proceeds on Golarion is an option, but it tends to undercut clerics as reasonable character options.</p>
<p>(B) is equally problematic. Whatever powers Serenrae (or whoever) has personally, the Bestiaries are full of outsider servants who could reshape the mortal world in dramatic ways. Why not send them? Divine cold wars are popular, the gods have all agreed not to act directly for fear of laying waste to the world etc... etc... But what about Cheliax? What about the Worldwound? Asmodeus lent a human faction a bunch of devils and took over a nation. The Abyss is literally spewing hordes of demons out into Golarion on a semi regular basis. How is that consistent with divine arms control? </p>
<p>I'd much rather see some sort of cannon discussion of what the gods' politics look like and what controls when they do or don't intervene.</p>
A partial approach to literally assigning Serenrae an AC is giving more attention to what they can do in a big picture sense.
For example, if someone recreates Earthfall and the PCs fail to stop it can the gods stop it? Golarion has very little in print about what the gods' politics are and what they can (and can't) do in practical terms to achieve their goals.
If you're running Rise of the Runelords and it looks like Karzoug is going to awaken and rebuild Thassilon, the gods are assumed...
Ring_of_Gyges
2017-07-25T01:31:15Z
Re: Forums/Pathfinder First Edition: General Discussion: Deity Stats
I3igAl
https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2mihu&page=2?Deity-Stats#80
2017-07-25T02:33:46Z
2017-07-25T00:29:53Z
<p>How strong gods have to be depends on the setting:</p>
<p>Shouldn't be statted in PF:
<br />
-gods could be abstract manifestations of cosmic forces
<br />
-gods could be primordial beings, that created universes, planet, seas(Golarion)</p>
<p>Should be statted in PF:
<br />
-gods could be like in Greek mythology/D&D 3.0, powerful but beatable by the strongest heroes(Elric Saga)
<br />
-gods could be powered by worship, meaning there could be some pretty weak gods, if they lack a large following(Fritz Leiber's Lankmar stories)
<br />
-some primitive settings could consider nearly every monster over CR 6 a deity </p>
<p>One problem with Pathfinder statting out gods is that the stats(aside of magical powers, immunities etc. ) follow a linear scale.
<br />
This makes it pretty hard to put more epic stuff like busting mountains into a their stat block.</p>
How strong gods have to be depends on the setting:
Shouldn't be statted in PF:
-gods could be abstract manifestations of cosmic forces
-gods could be primordial beings, that created universes, planet, seas(Golarion)
Should be statted in PF:
-gods could be like in Greek mythology/D&D 3.0, powerful but beatable by the strongest heroes(Elric Saga)
-gods could be powered by worship, meaning there could be some pretty weak gods, if they lack a large following(Fritz Leiber's Lankmar stories)...
I3igAl
2017-07-25T00:29:53Z
Re: Forums/Pathfinder First Edition: General Discussion: Deity Stats
slachance6
https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2mihu&page=2?Deity-Stats#79
2017-07-25T02:32:16Z
2017-07-24T22:40:46Z
<p>This has been said before in other threads, but gods have been defeated and even killed by lesser beings before. One example is Ydersius, who was decapitated in single combat by the hero Savith and has been nearly powerless ever since. There's also Curchanus, who was killed by Lamashtu (probably a CR 30 demon lord at the time) with the help of her demonic army.</p>
<p>Both of these feats seem to be within reach of a group of PCs, since a CR 30 encounter isn't too difficult for a well-optimized level 20/mythic 10 party. Which I honestly think makes sense. First of all, I recognize that there are different tiers even above demigod level. No PC or demigod should have a chance against Pharasma or Yog-Sothoth in a straight-up fight. But deities like Lamashtu, the four Ascended, Irori, Urgathoa, and maybe even Nethys and Asmodeus at a push are probably just a single tier above demigod level.</p>
<p>But a max-level and max-tier archmage is for all practical purposes a demigod. Think about it. This is an immortal, nearly invulnerable being that can create an entire plane and populate it with life, grant divine spells, teleport anywhere in the multiverse in an instant, and destroy cities and legendary monsters almost effortlessly. In game terms, it seems like a single 20/10 caster can defeat pretty much any single monster or demigod that's been given stats, as far as I can tell. That sounds godlike to me.</p>
<p>Also, max-level mythic characters are practically unheard of in Golarion's history, so that counters the "if the gods are that weak, they would have all been killed by random adventurers" claims. To put it into perspective, there have been only <i>two</i> 20/10 characters ever statted up: the Whispering Tyrant and Baba Yaga. One is a legendary villain who defined an entire era (and also managed to put up a good fight against a god before he was at the height of his power), and the other is an immortal space-faring witch queen who has almost nothing to do with Golarion itself (who has said that she •could• become a god if she wanted, but doesn't want to listen to everyone's prayers). An entire <i>party</i> of 20/10s would probably be like an organization of the mightiest heroes in the entire multiverse, so it makes sense that such a group could threaten the gods.</p>
<p>If I wanted to run such a high-level game, then I might want some stats for deities if they became relevant. But for now, that kind of game seems unwieldy and impractical, with character balance out the window. So this has mostly been a thought exercise, but an interesting one nonetheless.</p>
This has been said before in other threads, but gods have been defeated and even killed by lesser beings before. One example is Ydersius, who was decapitated in single combat by the hero Savith and has been nearly powerless ever since. There's also Curchanus, who was killed by Lamashtu (probably a CR 30 demon lord at the time) with the help of her demonic army.
Both of these feats seem to be within reach of a group of PCs, since a CR 30 encounter isn't too difficult for a well-optimized...
slachance6
2017-07-24T22:40:46Z
Re: Forums/Pathfinder First Edition: General Discussion: Deity Stats
FormerFiend
https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2mihu&page=2?Deity-Stats#78
2017-07-24T21:40:20Z
2017-07-24T21:40:20Z
<p>I mean, personally I'd be satisfied with level 60-100 gestalt builds, each one with 20 levels in the major divine classes gestalted with classes that matched that deity's specific theme. </p>
<p>That's if I were interested in statting out the gods which I'm not; I do genuinely believe statless is the best way to go because keeping them undefined from a narrative perspective just gives you the most options. They do what you need them to do, no more, no less.</p>
I mean, personally I'd be satisfied with level 60-100 gestalt builds, each one with 20 levels in the major divine classes gestalted with classes that matched that deity's specific theme.
That's if I were interested in statting out the gods which I'm not; I do genuinely believe statless is the best way to go because keeping them undefined from a narrative perspective just gives you the most options. They do what you need them to do, no more, no less.
FormerFiend
2017-07-24T21:40:20Z
Re: Forums/Pathfinder First Edition: General Discussion: Deity Stats
Sauce987654321
https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2mihu&page=2?Deity-Stats#77
2017-07-25T16:03:34Z
2017-07-24T17:04:03Z
<p>Yeah... If it were up to the consensus of the average player to make a statblock for a deity, I think I'll pass and just settle for statless ones. Can't say I'm interested in triple digit+ ability scores and modifiers.</p>
Yeah... If it were up to the consensus of the average player to make a statblock for a deity, I think I'll pass and just settle for statless ones. Can't say I'm interested in triple digit+ ability scores and modifiers.
Sauce987654321
2017-07-24T17:04:03Z
Re: Forums/Pathfinder First Edition: General Discussion: Deity Stats
Merm7th
https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2mihu&page=2?Deity-Stats#76
2017-07-24T12:54:39Z
2017-07-24T12:54:39Z
<div class="messageboard-quotee">Lady-J wrote:</div><blockquote> <div class="messageboard-quotee">Merm7th wrote:</div><blockquote><p> A true god I'd start at a base of 60 in all 6 abilities, 20 lvls in all the core classes, all classes stack when determining caster level in each class, all spells known/prepared, no limit to spells per day, all feats, infinite ki, can smite any alignment of non-deific enemies, energy immunity, anti-magic immunuty, DR 30/-, fast healing 40, spell immunity, rolls initiative for each class and gets a full round for each class, wish or miracle with no limits at will as a free action once per round.</p>
<p>That would be the base and I'd build on that for each deity to be more in line with its sphere of influence. A deity of combat would have higher physical abilities, 30 lvls in each martial class, a higher DR and continuous true strike... </blockquote>a true god would have ability scores of several thousand bare minimum maybe into the millions or billions theres no way my thralmak the planet breaker is even near godhood and he has an str score of over 14k </blockquote><p>I was thinking this would be at rest stats. The wish at will with no limits could be plus a million to all my abilities or this planet never existed. Of course other deities can come in and undo.
Lady-J wrote:Merm7th wrote:A true god I'd start at a base of 60 in all 6 abilities, 20 lvls in all the core classes, all classes stack when determining caster level in each class, all spells known/prepared, no limit to spells per day, all feats, infinite ki, can smite any alignment of non-deific enemies, energy immunity, anti-magic immunuty, DR 30/-, fast healing 40, spell immunity, rolls initiative for each class and gets a full round for each class, wish or miracle with no limits at will as...
Merm7th
2017-07-24T12:54:39Z
Re: Forums/Pathfinder First Edition: General Discussion: Deity Stats
TheMagicIndian
https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2mihu&page=2?Deity-Stats#75
2017-07-25T21:08:53Z
2017-07-24T06:48:06Z
<p>Since this thread has been resurrected, there might be a way to kill certain gods before they became gods, such as Cayden and Iomedae.</p>
<p>If you have a party that's hell-bent on killing a god, send them on a quest to search for the <a href="http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/artifacts/major-artifacts/scepter-of-ages/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Scepter of Ages.</a> By making the history check, they could technically go back in time before Iomedae, or Cayden and others, was a deity; say when she was just a babe in a crib. They could easily kill her then.</p>
<p>Of course, this opens things up to all sorts of bamboozlery. If there were a plot to kill a god, would said god know about it? Could they also travel back in time to protect their non-deific self? Killing them before they became a deity would have some serious repercussions on the future to be sure.</p>
<p>But that's the only way I could think of for players to feasibly kill a deity without outside help.</p>
Since this thread has been resurrected, there might be a way to kill certain gods before they became gods, such as Cayden and Iomedae.
If you have a party that's hell-bent on killing a god, send them on a quest to search for the Scepter of Ages. By making the history check, they could technically go back in time before Iomedae, or Cayden and others, was a deity; say when she was just a babe in a crib. They could easily kill her then.
Of course, this opens things up to all sorts of...
TheMagicIndian
2017-07-24T06:48:06Z
Re: Forums/Pathfinder First Edition: General Discussion: Deity Stats
Lady-J
https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2mihu&page=2?Deity-Stats#74
2017-07-24T05:22:53Z
2017-07-24T05:22:53Z
<div class="messageboard-quotee">Merm7th wrote:</div><blockquote><p> A true god I'd start at a base of 60 in all 6 abilities, 20 lvls in all the core classes, all classes stack when determining caster level in each class, all spells known/prepared, no limit to spells per day, all feats, infinite ki, can smite any alignment of non-deific enemies, energy immunity, anti-magic immunuty, DR 30/-, fast healing 40, spell immunity, rolls initiative for each class and gets a full round for each class, wish or miracle with no limits at will as a free action once per round.</p>
<p>That would be the base and I'd build on that for each deity to be more in line with its sphere of influence. A deity of combat would have higher physical abilities, 30 lvls in each martial class, a higher DR and continuous true strike... </blockquote><p>a true god would have ability scores of several thousand bare minimum maybe into the millions or billions theres no way my thralmak the planet breaker is even near godhood and he has an str score of over 14k
Merm7th wrote:A true god I'd start at a base of 60 in all 6 abilities, 20 lvls in all the core classes, all classes stack when determining caster level in each class, all spells known/prepared, no limit to spells per day, all feats, infinite ki, can smite any alignment of non-deific enemies, energy immunity, anti-magic immunuty, DR 30/-, fast healing 40, spell immunity, rolls initiative for each class and gets a full round for each class, wish or miracle with no limits at will as a free...
Lady-J
2017-07-24T05:22:53Z
Re: Forums/Pathfinder First Edition: General Discussion: Deity Stats
Merm7th
https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2mihu&page=2?Deity-Stats#73
2017-07-24T04:59:53Z
2017-07-24T04:56:05Z
<p>A true god I'd start at a base of 60 in all 6 abilities, 20 lvls in all the core classes, all classes stack when determining caster level in each class, all spells known/prepared, no limit to spells per day, all feats, infinite ki, can smite any alignment of non-deific enemies, energy immunity, anti-magic immunuty, DR 30/-, fast healing 40, spell immunity, rolls initiative for each class and gets a full round for each class, wish or miracle with no limits at will as a free action once per round.</p>
<p>That would be the base and I'd build on that for each deity to be more in line with its sphere of influence. A deity of combat would have higher physical abilities, 30 lvls in each martial class, a higher DR and continuous true strike...</p>
A true god I'd start at a base of 60 in all 6 abilities, 20 lvls in all the core classes, all classes stack when determining caster level in each class, all spells known/prepared, no limit to spells per day, all feats, infinite ki, can smite any alignment of non-deific enemies, energy immunity, anti-magic immunuty, DR 30/-, fast healing 40, spell immunity, rolls initiative for each class and gets a full round for each class, wish or miracle with no limits at will as a free action once per...
Merm7th
2017-07-24T04:56:05Z