Bestow Curse


Rules Questions

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If a person gets hit with the 50% chance to act part, does that stack? Like only 25% chance after 2 castings?


Chris Ballard wrote:
If a person gets hit with the 50% chance to act part, does that stack? Like only 25% chance after 2 castings?

No. Spells don't stack like that.

Grand Lodge

Chris Ballard wrote:
If a person gets hit with the 50% chance to act part, does that stack? Like only 25% chance after 2 castings?

Effects from the same source don't stack and overlap in duration, unless stated otherwise. He would have 50% chance to act until the last of these spells expired.

Liberty's Edge

Starglim wrote:
Chris Ballard wrote:
If a person gets hit with the 50% chance to act part, does that stack? Like only 25% chance after 2 castings?
Effects from the same source don't stack and overlap in duration, unless stated otherwise. He would have 50% chance to act until the last of these spells expired.

Correct, however if you wanted to really mess with the victim here though, you could apply a Misfortune type of effect to make him reroll the check and take the worst result.

Grand Lodge

Starglim wrote:
Chris Ballard wrote:
If a person gets hit with the 50% chance to act part, does that stack? Like only 25% chance after 2 castings?
Effects from the same source don't stack and overlap in duration, unless stated otherwise. He would have 50% chance to act until the last of these spells expired.

Which would be until removed or broken - bestow curse is permanent. Cursing the person multiple times forces multiple caster level checks for break enchantment or remove curse to get rid of them.


Starglim wrote:
Starglim wrote:
Chris Ballard wrote:
If a person gets hit with the 50% chance to act part, does that stack? Like only 25% chance after 2 castings?
Effects from the same source don't stack and overlap in duration, unless stated otherwise. He would have 50% chance to act until the last of these spells expired.
Which would be until removed or broken - bestow curse is permanent. Cursing the person multiple times forces multiple caster level checks for break enchantment or remove curse to get rid of them.

Really? Why would all the curses not be removed?

edit:for clarity.

Man I can't believe I wrote that previous post. It looked like English was my 2nd language.


That was clear in 3.5; for example, a Ranger (with all the glory of his easily-dispelled stunted caster level) may cast Cat's Grace on himself twice since his spells may be 20% easier to dispel than a competing caster. While one spell being ripped off was nearly certain, it was a fair chance that one would still remain.

In Pathfinder it is not so clear. Text on spells stacking mention the same spell with different effects and a couple other metrics, but not the exact same spell twice or whether all instances of a spell elapse when one is called out and dispelled.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
wraithstrike wrote:
Starglim wrote:
Starglim wrote:
Chris Ballard wrote:
If a person gets hit with the 50% chance to act part, does that stack? Like only 25% chance after 2 castings?
Effects from the same source don't stack and overlap in duration, unless stated otherwise. He would have 50% chance to act until the last of these spells expired.
Which would be until removed or broken - bestow curse is permanent. Cursing the person multiple times forces multiple caster level checks for break enchantment or remove curse to get rid of them.
Really? Why would not casting not remove all curses?

Remove curse removes all curses, per its description: "Remove curse can remove all curses on an object or a creature. If the target is a creature, you must make a caster level check (1d20 + caster level) against the DC of each curse affecting the target. Success means that the curse is removed."

All it requires is multiple checks, one per curse. I do not believe anyone can have the same curse twice. However, casting bestow curse twice to force a 50% chance of acting AND apply a -4 penalty to rolls is perfectly valid.

Grand Lodge

wraithstrike wrote:
Starglim wrote:
Starglim wrote:
Chris Ballard wrote:
If a person gets hit with the 50% chance to act part, does that stack? Like only 25% chance after 2 castings?
Effects from the same source don't stack and overlap in duration, unless stated otherwise. He would have 50% chance to act until the last of these spells expired.
Which would be until removed or broken - bestow curse is permanent. Cursing the person multiple times forces multiple caster level checks for break enchantment or remove curse to get rid of them.
Really? Why would not casting not remove all curses?

It does, if the caster of remove curse succeeds on all his caster level checks.

Ravingdork wrote:
However, casting bestow curse twice to force a 50% chance of acting AND apply a -4 penalty to rolls is perfectly valid.

Definitely, and a smarter option considering that the second curse will actually do something.


For those who want to weigh in, I'll contribute pages 208-209 of the CRB for the Combining Magic Effects section.

Re-reading this, Bestow Curse may technically be considered "Same Spell With Differing Results", wherein the last spell in the series trumps the others, and while they are not ended or dispelled, they are dormant while the last spell is still in effect.


Ravingdork wrote:
wraithstrike wrote:
Starglim wrote:
Starglim wrote:
Chris Ballard wrote:
If a person gets hit with the 50% chance to act part, does that stack? Like only 25% chance after 2 castings?
Effects from the same source don't stack and overlap in duration, unless stated otherwise. He would have 50% chance to act until the last of these spells expired.
Which would be until removed or broken - bestow curse is permanent. Cursing the person multiple times forces multiple caster level checks for break enchantment or remove curse to get rid of them.
Really? Why would not casting not remove all curses?

Remove curse removes all curses, per its description: "Remove curse can remove all curses on an object or a creature. If the target is a creature, you must make a caster level check (1d20 + caster level) against the DC of each curse affecting the target. Success means that the curse is removed."

All it requires is multiple checks, one per curse. I do not believe anyone can have the same curse twice. However, casting bestow curse twice to force a 50% chance of acting AND apply a -4 penalty to rolls is perfectly valid.

That makes sense.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Troubleshooter wrote:

For those who want to weigh in, I'll contribute pages 208-209 of the CRB for the Combining Magic Effects section.

Re-reading this, Bestow Curse may technically be considered "Same Spell With Differing Results", wherein the last spell in the series trumps the others, and while they are not ended or dispelled, they are dormant while the last spell is still in effect.

The same spell with differing results would be like having resist energy cast on you at low caster level for resist 10, than having it cast on you again by another source at higher caster level for resist 20. The former version of the spell becomes moot (or dormant or whatever) due to overlap from the more powerful version.

Such is not the case in my example, or if one were to cast resist energy (fire) AND resist energy (cold) upon you.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
wraithstrike wrote:
That makes sense.

I misinterpreted the wording earlier, actually. It's one check versus multiple effects and their respective DCs, not multiple one for one checks. :P


No, Resist Energy [Fire] 10 and Resist Energy [Fire] 30 is "Same Spell More than Once in Different Strengths". While hilarious, it does not count as a Same Effect With Differing Results. If it did, my Sorceror [Elemental Fire bloodline] could cast Resist Energy [Fire] at a lower caster level on enemies, reducing their own Resist Energy [Fire] from 30 to 10.

Resist Energy [Fire] and Resist Energy [Cold] are another example of Same Effect With Differing Results.

[Edit: Cleaned up using non-legalese in a legalese discussion]


Ravingdork wrote:
wraithstrike wrote:
That makes sense.
I misinterpreted the wording earlier, actually. It's one check versus multiple effects and their respective DCs, not multiple one for one checks. :P

That is how I read it so it is still good.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Troubleshooter wrote:

No, Resist Energy [Fire] 10 and Resist Energy [Fire] 30 is "Same Spell More than Once in Different Strengths". While hilarious, it does not count as a Same Effect With Differing Results. If it did, my Sorceror [Elemental Fire bloodline] could cast Resist Energy [Fire] at a lower caster level on enemies, reducing their own Resist Energy [Fire] from 30 to 10.

Resist Energy [Fire] and Resist Energy [Cold] are another example of Same Effect With Differing Results.

[Edit: Cleaned up using non-legalese in a legalese discussion]

Ever wonder why it has a save and SR? Now you know.

Obviously, we have differing interpretations. Personally, I believe you would just take the higher value in any given situation (which is how the overlapping and stacking rules generally work).


Hypothetically, what would Same Effect in Differing Strengths be used for?


Sorry to necromancer a thread, but I'm actually curious about something else involving Bestow Curse and the 50% not-to-act effect. Does this apply outside of combat time? If someone has a 50% chance of not acting, does this mean any desired 'goal' which involves a series of actions would simply take longer?

For example, 'I open the door and head to the bar' -- he has a 50% chance of being able to complete this action on his turn -- if he fails, he might take a bit longer to actually get where he's wanting to go.

Or is it restricted to only combat time?


There's (to the best of my knowledge) not generally any difference between in-combat and out-of-combat.

Bestow curse itself makes no mention of it not mattering outside of combat, so I would think they always have a 50% chance to not do anything (so, on average, pretty much everything they do would take twice as long as normal).

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