The listed save is to remove the negative level after 24 hours, unfortunately.
Kind of under-CRed then, I'd say. :P
Hit-and-run tactics definitely called for, which are hard to do in a 5-foot-corridor setting, or at least cycling melee opponents, since the only other clever plan is "don't get hit." With a 20 and an 18 rolled, not much hope of that.
Nah, he's not under CR'd as such, we just met him too soon :) Unfortunately we didn't have a compelling reason to leave the castle yet.
Edit: oh, in your combat plans keep in mind that the two level-drains of the wight also grant it a total of 10 temporary hitpoints; possibly more if it hits again.
Seriously? 3000 gp of equipment, and I've still got less than 150?
I will confess, I didn't review the equipment when Lorekeeper presented me with the character. It totally slipped my mind to do so.
Looking at Melon's character sheet, even those who accepted Ameiko's largesse have less than 600 gp of equipment. We've literally gotten nothing since leaving Sandpoint; everything we've fought has been gearless.
If it helps any, I picked most of his gear as shareable consumables. Both Corinna and Gilfroy should benefit from the wands (not least because they can keep a spell slot for something else).
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It doesn't really.
It's ridiculous for a monk/paladin to have two wands when the actual casters in the party don't have one between them.
It's ridiculous for a new party member to have more equipment than the remaining four members of the party put together.
He's obviously built to waltz through the dungeon we just got our rear ends handed to us in with his 24 AC, so the wights can only hit him on a natural 20, and make us look even more like bumbling idiots than we already do.
However, since he's managed to arrive here in the middle of nowhere, alone, without even burning a charge off one of his wands so he's obviously met nothing that might have given him any indication he might have been in any danger at any time, he's just demonstrated that it's safe for Corinna to leave, so that's what she'll do. Obviously, the NPCs have been lying to us about how dangerous this countryside is just to ensure we don't leave Ameiko.
Yeah, I have to agree with Joana. I apologize for not taking a closer look at Nhatin's equipment and vetoing it. I made certain skill points and hit points and stuff added up, but totally neglected to look at equipment. I'm just overtired these days, I think.
Anyway, his equipment should be reduced. There is quite a bit of treasure to be found in the castle, and it's unfair to the others that Nhatin gets a whole bunch of other stuff in addition to what's still to be found. I do apologize to Lorekeeper for giving the go-ahead to the character and then turning around and stripping the character of items, but I think it's the only way to keep things fair.
The problem is really the wands and the mithral scimitar. The wands should go and the scimitar should become a normal scimitar. The potions, alchemical items, and kits can stay. The ioun torch edges things a bit towards the high side, but it's not egregious, so I'll allow it.
On a slightly different note, I did note the mention in Nhatin's description that he likes to go topless, which I'm totally fine with. However, since it's been awhile since the date and weather conditions were last mentioned, I should remind you that it's now well into the autumn in a northerly climate. It's not snowing yet, but it is a little on the cold side. :)
For the record, I'm not at all accusing LoreKeeper of cheating. 3000 gp of equipment is exactly what a 3rd-level PC should have. It's just that the rest of us have less than what a 2nd-level PC should have, and the disparity makes Nhatin significantly more powerful than the rest of the party.
Sure, I've changed to a (non-masterwork) scimitar, reduced the ioun torch from divine to normal (75gp instead of 150gp). I've removed the wands, but bought 8gp cold-weather gear (which he's not currently wearing :p) - with the final 40gp in his pocket his total wealth is 400gp.
The bumbling idiots bit is not really called for. We've overextended our hand - but that's not so much the build on Nhatin as it is the lack of resources. With a night's rest the party (even at level 2) would not have trouble with the wight; in fact it only turned out into a nightmare due to a string of statistically unlikely attack rolls by the wight. That is not to say that it wasn't risky to explore a dungeon while low on resources with the knowledge that a night's rest would probably come with a level-up (and correspondingly the dungeon is designed around that party level).
As an aside, Nhatin's theoretical AC of 24 would not be relevant (yet), as the shield spell only lasts a minute making it very hard for him to reliably cast it in combat (and as its personal only, he cannot rely on Corinna to cast it on him either). The mage armor of course is something he'd cast upfront.
Just in case there's any question (I doubt there is, but just in case...), the reason I allowed Nhatin to be level 3 is because as soon as the party rests for the night, you'll all be level 3 too. :)
I'll be setting Nhatin's XP to be equal to what the rest of the party has after resting.
That is not to say that it wasn't risky to explore a dungeon while low on resources with the knowledge that a night's rest would probably come with a level-up (and correspondingly the dungeon is designed around that party level).
That "knowledge" is thorough metagaming. Our characters have no possible reason to suspect that sleeping will make them able to cast new spells, hit more accurately, and be able to sustain more damage before dying. :P
As an aside, Nhatin's theoretical AC of 24 would not be relevant (yet), as the shield spell only lasts a minute making it very hard for him to reliably cast it in combat (and as its personal only, he cannot rely on Corinna to cast it on him either). The mage armor of course is something he'd cast upfront.
However, considering we know exactly where the wights hang out, he'd definitely have it in place for that encounter. ;)
That is not to say that it wasn't risky to explore a dungeon while low on resources with the knowledge that a night's rest would probably come with a level-up (and correspondingly the dungeon is designed around that party level).That "knowledge" is thorough metagaming. Our characters have no possible reason to suspect that sleeping will make them able to cast new spells, hit more accurately, and be able to sustain more damage before dying. :P
Yea and no - people >do< know when they are on the verge of figuring something out. Corinna surely knows that Fox's Cunning is on the tip of her tongue. :)
Besides, its a legitimate kind of metagaming. The reasoning is along the same lines why we don't play with level 1 characters in a level 10 cave.
We'll have to agree to disagree on that. If we had traveled for 2 more weeks without having an encounter, it would have been more than 2 weeks before Corinna was able to master a new level of spell. I see no in-world reason why walking around behind a group of people who are fighting monsters should be more conducive to an intellectual breakthrough than 2 weeks of intensive study.
Anyway, I'm thinking it would have been a better idea for Nhatin to have waited at the caravan for us to return. Some stranger standing outside the castle to greet us with a blinding smile and an expanse of tanned pecs like a Ken doll as we emerge shell-shocked and battered from just losing a party member isn't conducive to us taking an immediate shine to him. :P
Why would he stay at the caravan? It's in his nature to go and help - he couldn't have known that you guys got yourself whooped. And don't go hating on the tanned guy. Us in the southern hemisphere just had a shiny beach-time Christmas with copious amounts of beachvolleyball - I'm as brown as I'll get for the next 11 months or so.
Good to know! Next time Gilfroy plays an illusion-based prank, I'll just autosucceed the save then. ;P
No no, that won't work - otherwise Nhatin would've autosucceeded on his keep-the-scimitar check. The initiator takes the advantage so to speak, so you autofail - unless you ready to disbelieve Gilfroy in which case you are the initiator and no illusion will work against you.
If it actually bothers folks, then of course I'll roll all skill checks in the future, but in my mind, this is just a smidge of comic relief during a dramatically tense moment in the story. If Nhatin had been built as a character super-paranoid about losing his sword where something like Gilfroy swiping it would be a major blow to his character concept, then of course I'd roll. Where it's just a harmless bit of fluff...
Of course, this is a two-way street. I would take no offense if, for purposes of the story, Corinna has a great comic moment/opportunity that depends on her succeeding against Gilfroy's next illusion prank--in such a situation, then by all means, auto-succeed (or auto-fail if you have a great reaction to that). I think we've all been at this long enough to know when such times are harmless RP and when they are matters if consequence.
I guess the question is, Does everyone find it funny? I don't have a dog in this particular fight and I don't think anyone is seriously offended, but it's possible that LoreKeeper would have liked his PC to have made a better first impression than "easily tricked." Gilfroy has twice embarrassed Corinna in public, and the experience certainly contributed to my not being able to perceive my own PC as capable and competent, though not nearly as much as her own poor dice rolls in more crucial situations have.
Corinna's in-game solution is simply to avoid Gilfroy's company whenever possible. She's certainly not interested in an escalating prank war.
Have we completely lost Tevyn's player?
IMO, yes. When he finally contacted me to drop out of my game a week and a half ago, he said he hadn't even logged into Paizo since November, and judging by two months of silence, despite his saying he intended to catch up with Navior's games, he still isn't engaging. I'd be quite surprised (albeit pleasantly) if he were suddenly to return after all this time.
I don't mind swiping the scimitar - in the situation it's an excuse for Nhatin to move along with the party. But on a more fundamental level Nhatin is mechanically a paladin and the scimitar his primary material connection to his goddess (in the form of ritualistic dances where the scimitar forms a principal component); as such he'd appreciate the scimitar back sooner rather than later.
He's not wily by any means, but he's wise enough to see reason in this situation and just go along with Gilfroy play.
There's also nothing saying that Nhatin can't just pluck it back before the gnome's gone three steps.
Navior! Have you seen this yet?
Navior! Have you seen this yet?
No, I haven't...er...well, yes I have, now that I've clicked your link! :)
Could be very interesting...
Finally, an answer about the nature of Corinna's summoned dog! Kind of stinks that the summons don't remember their summoner from one conjuration to the next -- no chance to build any kind of relationship -- but at least they don't get that "Oh, no, not again" feeling when they're called upon to throw their lives away time and again, like Arthur Dent's many-times-reincarnated rabbit-thing.
Hey, that doesn't mean you cannot have some weird aberrant creature that through twist of fate or by being bitten by a radioactive spider has the ability to remember.
But on the other hand, it also means that when you summon 1d3 dogs that you can have all (potential) 3 be Corinna's dog - since they can all be shadow/aspects/avatars of her.
Lady as maiden, mother, and crone? Puppyish, prime of life, and gray-muzzled as Corinna most recently knew her? :)
Ya! Maybe start taking levels in witch and really make it take off.
Hey folks! Sorry for the delay. I've been battling the flu for the last week and it has utterly zapped my energy for doing anything, which has included calculating exactly how much XP everyone gets. I will hopefully get to that tomorrow (I need to comb back through the thread and tally up exactly what encounters you had). However, even though I don't know the exact amount yet, I do know that it'll be enough to level up, so you might as well go ahead an level up!
HP:
Hmm...I think I'll risk the secret roll here.
Second level oracle upgrade complete. Gilfroy now has the potential for casting 11 DC 18 colour sprays per day.
Navior! Have you seen this yet?No, I haven't...er...well, yes I have, now that I've clicked your link! :)
Could be very interesting...
The Licktoads, once the great and fierce goblin tribe in Brinestump Marsh, were defeated by human adventurers! All that remains of the tribe are its four goblin "heroes"—Reta Bigbad the fighter, Chuffy Lickwound the rogue, Poog the cleric of Zarongel, and Mogmurch the alchemist.
Odd that they neglect to mention Old Foofelah, whom I happen to know survived, unlike Chuffy.... Maybe Reta went back for him.
Ouch. Well, at least it's not worse than what you already rolled. :)
Odd that they neglect to mention Old Foofelah, whom I happen to know survived, unlike Chuffy.... Maybe Reta went back for him.
Well, you know how little the others respected her and her wisdom. No doubt it's a nefarious plot to undermine her role in the first adventure. They know that if the new tribe knew about her, there wouldn't be any contest to become chieftain. She'd just be acclaimed chieftain. :)
She's being left out of the minis set, too. It's a conspiracy!
I suspect Fat Slorb is behind it....
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She claps. She crosses her arms and huffs. She then looks around to see if anyone is around before "whispering", "Oh, and Reta NOT. GO. BACK. AND. GET. CHUFFY." She shakes her head 'no' quite demonstratively. she says with a straight face that last only but a moment before breaking out in giggles.
I've been putting this off for a while, but realize I can't do so any longer. Despite his e-mail at the beginning of January, it's becoming pretty clear now that Wander Weir is not returning. And so we need to decide what we want to do. Do we continue with just the four of you, or do we try to find a new player? Other options?
It won't be difficult to write Tevyn out (writing out Lorenz in Serpent's Skull is going to be much more problematic) and there are some easy ways to add a new character should we decide to go that route. Let me know what you think.
I'm fine with recruiting another player. A frail gnome, a wizard, a magus and some sort of cleric would make for a very strange and melee light party.
Time for the Player's Guide to put up or shut up. It claimed a PC could run this adventure as an enemy of Ameiko, and personally I think it's a big, fat liar. Give Corinna a reason other than concern for Ameiko's well-being to go back in and put her life at risk.
(Nhatin's a paladin, btw, which picks up the melee slack left by Melon. Tevyn was ranged.)
Also, Chuffy!
EDIT: Huh. Could have sworn I linked to Poog last week.
I think we understand very different things from the player's guide: to me it speaks of rivals, not of enemies. I know that Western media has kind of smudged the line and mostly portrays all rivalries as enemies - but actually a rival (particularly in this context) is somebody that you have a lot in common with, but are at odds with. In that sense you cannot be rivals with someone that you don't have a lot of interaction with. For example, by my understanding, Corinna isn't a rival (or an enemy) of Ameiko; instead she simply avoids her and carries a jealous dislike (not even disdain).
...
There are plenty potential things coming up in the AP that might act as pull for Corinna - but then again, maybe not. Regardless, we have no character-knowledge of these things yet. As is, there are only two motivations I can think of:
1. Goodness of heart from a neutral-good character - unfortunately Corinna's more-or-less burnt that bridge with petty dislike. This path could maybe become viable if Corinna experienced some form of special event (perhaps a dream or other-natured encountered with the current Ameiko).
2. Actual rivalry: proof that Ameiko is second-rate in comparison by being just that much more awesome. Difficult to do as you (Joanna) play heavily with the lead of the dice - rather than out of conviction for the character. Still, this could be a viable option. All of Corinna's dislike for Ameiko doesn't stem from a particular traumatic experience where Ameiko has actively wronged Corinna - it's all about the comparative popularity of the one over the other; as such this could be fertile ground for an actual rivalry, rather than a seething hatred at some wrong-doing.
Ultimately, though, it is the player's responsibility to find a suitable buy-in for their character - there needs to be some level of suspension of disbelief. The rest of us can just help with some ideas and supporting any notion that you want to run with.
...
Nhatin does pick up some melee slack, but he's only a 2nd-grade front-liner until he has a reliable source of mage armor (he currently has 1 potion thereof). With 16 AC he's not going to be able to tank nearly as hard as Melon; and for the sake of prosperity for the adventuring party I think I need to reveal this much: there's a lot more danger to the Brinewall than what we've seen up to now. Tip of the iceberg stuff. It might not be clear to everybody, but "here" is designed to take players from level 2 to beyond 4.
...
For the record, I'm happy with 4-player parties; it is my default choice for playing in real-life - I find bigger groups (IRL) can get too distracted as turns can take a while to come around.
I suppose Tevyn could volunteer to go for help? That would actually make sense and be in keeping with his eagerness to make a Big Gesture for Ameiko, if only she were conscious to have a clue about his sacrifice. Or are you planning on him staying with the caravan to watch over her?
I suppose Tevyn could volunteer to go for help? That would actually make sense and be in keeping with his eagerness to make a Big Gesture for Ameiko, if only she were conscious to have a clue about his sacrifice. Or are you planning on him staying with the caravan to watch over her?
I haven't fully decided yet, but I have been debating between those two things.
I think we understand very different things from the player's guide: to me it speaks of rivals, not of enemies.
The highest relationship level on the competitive side is enmity. Why on earth would someone feels "hostility, hatred, ill will, animosity, and antagonism" toward Ameiko continue to risk her life to make her queen of all she surveys? How can they help put her on the throne when they are "actively opposed to" her, as it explicitly states in the player's guide?
The reality is that none of the (male!) developers at Paizo can imagine anyone not adoring Ameiko and thus never seriously considered what would happen if a PC were to be her enemy. She is designed as the perfect being for whom everyone is willing to give up everything just because her mere existence makes Golarion a better place. I even asked James Jacobs if Ameiko has a flaw, and the best he could come up with was that 'she gets angry about injustice' -- which, of course, isn't a flaw at all. I even saw an argument in which a poster insisted that evil characters couldn't play Jade Regent because Ameiko by definition couldn't associate with anyone morally corrupt. She doesn't have peers; she has acolytes.
However, as presented, Ameiko has no reason to be loved and respected other than that she's pretty and talented. When James Jacobs played her as a PC, I'm sure she actually did things that might persuade me she deserves my PC's friendship and loyalty. But as an NPC, she has literally no accomplishments. She had a brief and unsuccessful adventuring career, inherited enough money to live on comfortably, and spontaneously de-aged by several years so she could still be in her early twenties when she should be near thirty but everyone knows women that old can't possibly be desirable. She's Paris Hilton. She's a Kardashian. Why does the fact that she's pretty and popular qualify her to be empress? Why should my PC admire and respect her? Why should people lay down their lives to save her? Apparently, being hot means never having to answer those questions. She's the Disney princess who totally deserves blind devotion because, well, just look at her! The whole premise is offensive.
Of course, she doesn't have to be that way. She can be played to have a lot more to her than that. I honestly fully expected Corinna to warm toward Ameiko; if they ever had a chance to talk, they'd probably find they have a lot in common. But (ironically since this is the "relationship rules" AP that is supposed to encourage the players to invest in the NPCs) the actual design of the adventure makes it difficult to get to know them. Two in-game weeks into Serpent's Skull, I felt like our PCs knew the NPC castaways really well, but 17 days into our journey in this game, the NPCs feel like complete strangers. And it's all due to the random-encounter set-up of the module. On the Shiv, we had stuff to do every day: exploring, setting up camp, moving camp, fighting hostile things, setting up a watch schedule and persuading them to participate, discussing what to do next. We were forced into daily interaction with the NPCs and thus we got familiar with them and settled into relationships. This "*roll for random encounters* 'Six uneventful days later...'" thing works great further into a campaign, when everyone already knows each other (witness Serpent's Skull now), but at the beginning of a campaign, you can't skip over the getting-to-know-you phase and expect the players to feel the same attachment to the NPCs. I mean, Ameiko is no Jask; she's not even an Aerys. I want to feel the same way about Ameiko, Sandru and Koya as I do about the castaways, but they're complete cyphers to me.
No, because the campaign is still all about Ameiko, and as a woman, I find no fun in my PC struggling and fighting and risking her life to make another woman a princess. It's why I've spent so much time struggling to find an alternative reason for Corinna to go on this journey, but nothing I've tried is compatible with the demands of the plot; every personal goal has to end up secondary to the primacy of Ameiko. This isn't the Tian AP or the caravan AP; it's the Ameiko AP.
This campaign is written by men for men without considering how it feels to female players. I don't for a minute believe that Paizo would ever publish an AP in which the party would spend 6 modules working for the advancement and benefit of the same male NPC. Heck, in Kingmaker, at least one of the PCs gets to be king; they don't send you into the River Kingdoms with an NPC from the Brevic royal family and tell you to spend your time and effort and lives protecting him and setting up a kingdom for him to rule.
I'm rather sure the developers in their infinite designs have a "Mass Effect" kind of rivalry system in mind for Jade Regent - regardless of the terms used for relationship level. "Enmity" simply sounds better than "seriously very rivalrous". True (hostile) enemies simply do not make sense in a non-evil aligned adventure path.
For the most part, I think that the premise of the AP is that the things that would endear the PCs to Ameiko happened in the past. There simply hasn't been opportunity to get to know the NPCs much - at most we had 2 social situations with the NPCs (which Corinna spent at home). And now that we have added drama of a possessed/incapacitated Ameiko, there is really no way for Corinna to get to like Ameiko (save perhaps a series of NPCs/PCs recounting their memories with Ameiko and these stories somehow sway Corinna's heart).
But you need to be fair here. Ameiko has more qualities other than being pretty and talented. She's generous and fights for the underdog; she feeds visitors to her inn for free in exchange for them telling stories; she shows depth of concern for her family('s past). There's no way you can compare her to somebody like Paris Hilton or a Kardashian. Lady Diane is a better match than Paris Hilton. She is a good-aligned character. The "good" alignment monicker is actually meaningful in Pathfinder - somebody that is merely a nice person and greets you in the morning is not good-aligned. You cannot ignore such an element and then emphasize that she is a high Charisma-based character and therefore must be scum-of-the-earth unless proven otherwise through non-charisma-based means.
Other than gratuitous sex appeal and being really ridiculously good-looking, Ameiko is qualified to be empress by being the last of her line which happens to be the ruling line. That hereditary leadership is not necessarily a sound basis for government is a separate issue.
It is a valid point that we've not had much opportunity to let the NPCs become more than NPCs - but that is also not an excuse to derail the proceedings. If it takes more time for the NPCs to become more, then so be it. Ultimately whether it is Corinna or some other character - they'd have to bring their own motivation to risk their lives. If necessary, blame it on the character's utter lack of good judgment. I'd love to get the story progressing again after weeks spent at a practical stand-still.