@Navior: Jerall (Ten) is keen, but Herc (Esmerelda) says thank you but no
@Nazard: Word!
I actually just started a RoW PbP. Then again, as I'm the reason we're no longer playing Jade Regent, I don't feel I have the right to cast a vote; if that's what everyone else wants to play, I'll deal with it.
And you know I'm not playing a monk. :P
Sorry, I thought there seemed to be a leaning towards the Kobold King modules, but looking back, I realize that was mostly Joana, with Nazard chiming in that he'd be okay with it. Lorekeeper, you never actually joined into that conversation, just the all-monk one. :)
Okay then, let's take an official vote between the final three options.
Reign of Winter
Savage Tide
Kobold King
I'll abstain from voting unless a tie-breaker is needed. And please let me know if any of these options would be a deal-breaker for you. Although we may end up with something that's not everyone's first choice, I still want it to be something everyone will be happy with. I won't force anyone to play something they don't want to play.
Although I've said I'm going to abstain from the vote unless a tie-breaker is needed, I thought I should outline the positives and negatives (from my perspective) of each option so that everyone can make an informed decision.
Reign of Winter
Pros: The least amount of work for me initially and possibly overall, unless I feel like I need to make substantial changes to later parts, which is not impossible, but a ways off yet.
Cons: Without all the books yet, it's impossible to know how well the AP turns out. I don't know how many spoilers people have seen about the AP, but it does set out to do some pretty ambitious and unusual things. If it works, it'll be amazing. But if it stumbles, it could turn out horribly. This is a significant worry I have.
Things that could be a pro or con depending on your point of view: The AP moves around a lot, so if you like seeing lots of different places, you'll like this one. But if you like a stable location where you can build relationships with NPCs, you probably won't like this as much.
Savage Tide
Pros: I have the complete AP already and know exactly what to expect. I've also run the whole thing before and know what works and what needs a little tweaking.
Cons: It's written for 3.5, so needs a bit of updating (although my previous group actually converted from 3.5 to Pathfinder midway through the campaign, so I've already done a lot of that converting). The conversion is pretty simple though. I will also need to make a few modifications to transplant it into Golarion, but that's not very difficult. Also, it can be a bit on the deadly side compared to later APs. That said, as GM, I'm well aware of this and can compensate.
Things that could be a pro or con depending on your point of view: It involves a lot of travelling, but nonetheless has a stable homebase and cast of NPCs, allowing for relationship building. It's heavily sea-based, but you don't play pirates (indeed, pirates make up a substantial portion of the villains). It's intended for good characters, but late in the AP does have some of those difficult moral choices Paizo likes to inflict on good characters.
Kobold King
Pros: I have everything already.
Cons: Needs updating from 3.5, but this isn't difficult. I haven't run them before, so will need time to read them.
Things that could be a pro or con depending on your point of view: It's focused on one region, so lots of opportunity to build relationships with NPCs.
Oh, I suppose another thing that could be mentioned about Savage Tide is that each individual adventure is shorter than the parts of Pathfinder APs, meaning that you can achieve that sense of accomplishment that comes from completing an adventure more quickly. On the other side, there are twice as many parts as later APs, so the entire AP will take just about as long.
Anyway, back to voting...
Speaking as someone planning on playing a character with below average Int and Cha, I'd say long involved role-playing sessions with NPCs are not of pressing concern for me.
I support RoW, too. I must admit, however, to not being a fan of any of the campaign traits provided for it. I have to add my voice the throng of those asking why all the campaign traits imply some latent cold affinity of the characters when they're supposed to be from southern Taldor. I know that the PCs can be from anywhere, and I understand the point of view that these traits mean that the PCs are ones who have some ancient ties to the cold or witches that shows just how fated they were to be the heroes, but they're very, very limiting.
I haven't actually read the Player's Guide yet, so I'm unfamiliar with the campaign traits. I suppose the idea is that, even though you're not coming from a wintry land, since the majority of the AP takes place in wintry locations, you'll still be able to operate effectively in those locations. Still, it's entirely possible, even likely, that the traits could have been handled better. I've found the AP player's guides to be rather hit and miss in terms of actually preparing PCs for the adventures to come.
And by supporting RoW too Nazard means that the monks have a united front. :)
Campaign traits are an awkward thing to design for, since for the most part you don't want to design them against specific encounters that will happen. As a rule, I think it is good enough if they give an excuse for the game to start - after that... well anything can happen.
I've looked at the RoW Player's Guide traits; for the most part I wouldn't call them super interesting. But. They tend to be a bit more powerful than the run-of-the-mill traits available, so that is some incentive at least.
For my archer, I think I will give him the "Cold Parents" trait (not its actual name, but basically yeah), having them hail from Brevoy still, but living in Taldor. Instead of a plant sorcerer, daddy was a frost sorcerer. Problem solved. Also gives another reason why he loves being outdoors chopping wood so much. Yvgeni has settled in Heldren, and naturally as a follower of Erastil, has a vested interest in protecting his community and home. Thus campaign motivation solved.
If we go with Kobold King, obviously he has settled in Falcon's Hollow instead of Heldren. As for Savage Tide...where does it start?
If we go with Kobold King, obviously he has settled in Falcon's Hollow instead of Heldren. As for Savage Tide...where does it start?
Sasserine, which isn't a Golarion city. I'm not sure yet if I'll replace Sasserine with an existing Golarion city, or if I'll find a place to put Sasserine in Golarion. However, I would place the majority of the campaign along the northwestern coast of Garund. It would not start in the Shackles, but it would certainly pass through the Shackles at some point. Sasserine would probably be north of the Shackles. I'm not sure the city would really fit well in Rahadoum, so I might go as far north as Corentyn (using Corentyn in place of Sasserine).
But as there have been zero votes for Savage Tide so far, it's probably a moot point. :)
Looks like vote count so far is two for Reign of Winter (I'm taking Lorekeeper's comment on the united monk front to be a vote for it). Our new player is welcome to vote, too.
Indeed I'm with RoW. It looks unlikely that we'll do a real-world play of RoW here, so a pbp is my next bet.
Savage Tide works for me, too, though I may find it harder to use my zen archer there. But I have other character ideas, so no worries.
I'm the wishy-washy vote. All 3 options interest me, and none don't.
Does "wishy-washy" count for just half a vote? :)
In all seriousness, I'm kind of wishing I'd had you rate all the choices rather than just give a single vote. Even though Reign of Winter is in the lead by votes at the moment (not that there's a whole lot of votes to count from), I'm thinking Savage Tide is actually the better choice. Even though only one person has voted it as first choice, I get the impression it would be everyone else's second choice, whereas both other options would have at least one person listing it as third choice. And in all honesty, if I were to cast my tie-breaking vote, it would go to Savage Tide (assuming it was one of the options involved in the tie).
Hmmm... Does this mean I'm casting my tie-breaking vote anyway and taking part in a vote I said I wouldn't take part in unless there was a tie? Or am I just unilaterally making a choice? Either way, bad me. I shall have to give myself a very stern scolding. ;)
Anyway, I think we should do Savage Tide. I think it's got things to please everybody and will be a lot of fun.
It's late, and I'm going to bed now, so you have one last chance to scream objections at me. I'll provide further campaign details (and get a new thread started up) over the next couple days.
I vote for Savage Tide, but it's wishy-washy, so only counts for half.
No idea what I'll play, though. I'm tempted to try resurrecting Venedictos, fourth time's the charm, after all.
For characters, there's a lot of sailing in Savage Tide. However, that sailing doesn't happen immediately. You should create characters who have an interest in the sea. They could be sailors who are currently out of work, or they could be people who have dreamed of going to sea. That sort of thing.
Paizo did produce a Player's Guide for Savage Tide (which may still be available on this site somewhere). However, it's really just a guide to Sasserine. Apart from a few "district feats" (feats based on the city district you come from), there's no actual character information in it. Since I've decided now that I'm going to replace Sasserine with Corentyn, the Player's Guide is pretty useless.
I'll provide more specific information soon.
But do they go to sea because of the desire to sail, or because sailing is the necessary means to the end of saving the day?
Hmm...giving serious consideration to playing a cat folk archer paladin of Ragathiel, intent on fighting piracy on the high seas. Originally from Magnimar, he's on the prowl for the pirates who sank his family's merchant vessel off the coast of Cheliax.
But do they go to sea because of the desire to sail, or because sailing is the necessary means to the end of saving the day?
More the desire to sail, at least initially. You could create a character who's doing it out of necessity, I suppose, perhaps as a way to make money. On the whole, though, it's best if most of the characters actually want to sail. You will (relatively quickly in the AP) have your own ship. If the party's more inclined to just sell the ship and stay on land, the AP will kind of fall flat pretty fast. :)
Understood. Definitely going with the catfolk paladin with a vendetta against pirates. I assume that will work?
They made him walk the plank. For a catfolk, that's just unforgivable, even for a paladin.
Would you like to start a new discussion thread for the Savage Tide game, rather than keep using this one?
I have started a new OOC thread for the new campaign here. We'll take discussion over there now. :)
I'll be marking Jade Regent as inactive.
Necroing a dead thread no one's ever going to look at, just to say I told you so. :P
If there was a Miss Golarion pageant, who do you think would win and why?Shensen or Ameiko, 'cause they're my characters and I'm the creative director and I'd rig the contest during development.
Also, she is so a Mary Sue:
Sandpoint, because it's the best place on Golarion. I'd be an adventurer/explorer/entertainer. Ameiko is, in fact, a pretty good indication of who I'd be in Sandpoint.James, where would want to live in Golarion and why? What would you do, adventure, commoner, or other?
Basically, if you were to make yourself as a character (fantasized of course, not exactly you in real life) what would it be. The James Jacobs AP, if you will.
Heh. There's not much arguing with that.
As for the thread necro, you seem to have necroed me along with it! :)
Yep, I still exist, and I will return. Six weeks to go... Never have six weeks seemed so far away.
Anyway, I'm procrastinating on assignments 35,423 and 35,424, so I better get back to work.
Take care all.
Hey, Navior! *waves enthusiastically*
The sequels to We Be Goblins have never really appealed to me, as the concept of goblins competent enough to gain multiple levels seems to be at odd with their Golarion flavor. A prequel, however: that's interesting.
Of course, Foofelah would already be an adult while the rest of the crew were youngsters. (And I've always believed that the secret to her longevity was avoiding any dangerous situations in the first place: why else would she still be first-level?) Still, Middle-Aged Foofelah assigned against her will to supervising the coming-of-age challenges and making sure there's no cheating intrigues me. (And she'd totally go along with a little cheating, too.)
My issue with the sequels to We Be Goblins is that they're both basically the same adventure as the first, just with higher CR opponents. I hope this prequel does something a little different with the goblins. Young goblins could certainly be interesting and I am definitely intrigued by the idea of a middle-aged Foofelah.
I suppose it was inevitable, though I wasn't expecting it just yet (maybe that was naive of me).
I'll check out the playtest when it becomes available and probably follow along to see how it develops. I'm not sure I'll actually buy the new edition when it comes out though. Even if I like what they do, I don't have the funds these days to buy much, and I still have tons of unused first edition Pathfinder stuff that will keep me occupied for years yet.
Yeah, here for several months at least, when the "When will Pathfinder release a 2nd edition?" threads popped up on the boards, I realized I didn't have a dog in the fight anymore. If Paizo shut down tomorrow, I would have more than enough gaming material to play happily for many, many years. I own 18 APs and have run ... two. And a handful of modules, all of which I own in either PDF or print.
If I don't like Pathfinder 2.0, honestly, they'll be doing my finances a favor with absolutely no downside for me.
That said, I'm totally excited about the playtest. Trying new stuff is just fun! I loved messing around with the Beta rules. Here is a list of rules tidbits someone was able to tweak out of the podcast of the first public playtest of Pf2, if you haven't seen it yet.
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Richard Pett has written a goblins novel! They're not technically Golarion goblins, but they have similar affinities for fire and violence. Reading the book made me nostalgic for Old Foofelah. I highly recommend it!