Someone please help me understand this:
Hero: A hero is a highly-trained character capable of performing a variety of roles, from offense to defense. Each hero grants a caravan a +1 morale bonus on Attack, Security, and Resolve checks, to a maximum of +4. The morale bonuses granted by heroes do not count toward the maximum +5 circumstance bonus on each derived statistic’s checks granted by other travelers performing jobs.
Requirement: Only PCs can serve a caravan as a hero, but doing so does not count as a job role—a PC can effectively serve as a hero and any one other job.So, each of us provide this bonus? So, being 6 of us, that would essentially be +6? I know you can't go above the +4, but, if you could, would this be right?
Seeing how they are all morale bonuses, I would guess they shouldn't stack. And if that's the case, how the heck do you get up to +4?
Edit: Okay. Looking back on Lore's posts, it looks as if it does stack. Which is cool. It seems weird that all those morale bonuses stack, but, there's no other way to get the +4.
So, I guess that answers that.
Yes, I can see how it's a touch confusing. You're right that as morale bonuses, they shouldn't stack with each other. However, the context suggests that this is an exception up to the maximum of +4. So if you have 4 or more heroes with the caravan, you have a +4 bonus to each of those scores.
Okay, I just read this:
Consumption: This value indicates the amount of provisions that your caravan consumes every day. Your caravan’s consumption equals the total number of travelers in your caravan plus the total of all the wagons’ consumption values, modified further by any appropriate
bonuses or penalties.So, having read that, with our total being 4 for the wagons, and 12 of us(pc's + npc's + 1 more if we hire another driver) that would be 17. Which means, out of our Stores, we need to have 17 provisions for everytime we rest, minimum. Am I reading this right? If so, we ARE going to need another supply wagon just to hold enough dang food.
That's right. The wagons' consumption values account for the horses that pull each wagon (they have to eat, too). So you need to carry lots of stores for a long journey. Remember, of course, that each unit of stores is equal to 10 provisions, so if you have a consumption of 17, you need 1.7 stores per day (or 17 stores for every 10 days). Getting an extra wagon to carry the stores is probably a good idea, although keep in mind that the extra wagon will add to your consumption value as well. (Also remember that there will be places along the journey to stop and restock supplies.)
Do we only get the 3 points at first level? That's not an every level type deal, is it?
It's a one-time thing only. You don't get additional points for going up levels. However, starting at level 2, you qualify for the Enhanced Caravan feat. Taking this feat raises any two scores by 1. So every time you choose a feat, you have to balance your choice between getting cool new abilities and raising your scores so that you can get other cool new abilities later. :)
Now as far as repairs, will mending take care of that mostly?
Speaking of which, if I declare myself as "Healer" for the day, does that mean I can do nothing to help with repairs? If mending works, that is. I also have the Craft(carpentry) skill. But either way, it appears I can only choose to do either/or, not both. I can't be the healer and a wainwright or whatever. Is this correct?
Mending only works on up to 1 lb of material per level, which will generally be insufficient for making repairs to a caravan. A make whole spell will work better, but even there, 10 cu. ft/level is not a huge amount either. (Note that it's cubic feet, not a 10-ft cube. A 10-ft cube is 10x10x10, whereas 10 cu. ft is something like 1x2x5 or 2x2x2.5.) As such, at low levels especially, the group will need someone to do the wainwright job if the caravan is damaged.
You can't be the healer and the wainwright at the same time as repairs are generally considered to be an all-day task. However, a traveller doesn't have to do the same job every day. One person could be tasked with being the wainwright on days when repairs are needed and doing some other job on other days.
Well cool. Thanks for the clarifications, Navior. That helps a lot. Especially the mending issue. That seemed to easy to circumvent repairs, so that's why I was wondering about that one.
Well, with all that being cleared up, I would definitely recommend another supply wagon to go along with another covered wagon.(As mentioned previously)
That would give us cargo capacity of 32 and a traveler capacity of 18. With Tevyn going as scout, that'll help in comsumption.
Feats: Enhanced Consumption, Enhanced Caravan. Or Enhanced Caravan and some feat that has a "whatever 3" for a prereq. There's always Extra Wagons, but that would require the EC feat with one point going to Mobility. Could then purchase another supply wagon and have the ability to store more food.
Of course, if we went that route with the 3 extra wagons, we would need 4 extra drivers instead of just 1. Which would put us at 16 total travelers.
Which would then be a CC of 42; TC of 20. Consumption would then = 8 for wagons and 15 for travelers.(Not including Tevyn) 23 per day. Dang.
Don't think that's gonna work. That's still just 8 days of food. And that's if we use 2 supply wagons for nothing but food.
That still leaves us with 22 open slots of CC. It could be possible. I don't know.
Still have to purchase repair materials and trade goods. Those are only 1 for 1. Plus treasure at 50lbs per slot. If we could manage all of this we could use more of the CC to use for Stores. It's obvious I'm stuck along the lines with food. But that's because of the Unrest factor.
Oh well. I gotta go mow. This is all just my thoughts on all of this.
I think I'm gonna roll with, Defense, Mobility, and Morale myself. Morale especially, due to Unrest.(Kingmaker has gotten me worried about this) At most, 2 points in one. But not all 3 in one. Even the 2 points in one bothers me. But I'm like Wander in that regard, I wary of all the eggs put together. But I won't deny I'm a fan of going faster also.
Scout is lame. By definition, if Tevyn is a scout, he's traveling by himself, not with the rest of the group. No conversation or relationship-building; party constantly split. Shouldn't we make an NPC do that so Wander Weir actually has something to do other than roll Survival checks day after day? It wouldn't be that big a deal at the faster pace of a table, but that's a long time of him being off by himself at PbP speed.
Shalelu can fill the role of scout. The party doesn't actually know for sure yet that she's coming along, but they will soon, so there's no harm in planning for it.
Feats: Enhanced Consumption, Enhanced Caravan. Or Enhanced Caravan and some feat that has a "whatever 3" for a prereq. There's always Extra Wagons, but that would require the EC feat with one point going to Mobility. Could then purchase another supply wagon and have the ability to store more food.
Small note: Enhanced Caravan has a prerequisite of Level 2, so it can only be your second feat. Whatever you take as your first feat has to meet its prerequisites without Enhanced Caravan.
Thanks, Navior. I missed that. So, we can officially scratch anything that has anything to do with that thought.
Well, unless we add 2 of the 3 points at 1st level to Mobility. Then take the Enhanced Caravan feat at 2nd and add those 2 points to the other two Primary stats we neglected at 1st.
Again, totally just my thoughts. Please, someone else say something so I don't feel like I'm dominating this whole thing. :P
I'm really not that good at this stuff. This is all new to me. I will say, it is far easier to understand than Kingdom building in Kingmaker. I still can't figure that crap out. It's tough.
And I'm glad you got Shalelu taking scout. I read that and thought that was kinda weird also.
So there are two questions before us at this point: 1. Can we get the wakizashi fixed?...
Not sure if you caught this question or not, Navior. Of course, it's highly possible I might have missed your answer. It would not be the first time. :P
So there are two questions before us at this point: 1. Can we get the wakizashi fixed?...
We can't with LoreKeeper's favorite cantrip, as one has to have a caster level at least equal to the magic item's. Don't know if a mundane smith can repair a magic sword.
So there are two questions before us at this point: 1. Can we get the wakizashi fixed?...Not sure if you caught this question or not, Navior. Of course, it's highly possible I might have missed your answer. It would not be the first time. :P
I did catch it, yes. I just...er...forgot to answer it. :)
At any rate, yes you can get it fixed, though not with a mending spell as Joana rightly points out. Das Korvut, owner of the Red Dog Smithy, could do it for you, although he will charge 600 gp.
So you can pay 600 gp to sell it for 300 gp more than not paying someone to fix it. :)
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After subtracting the chain shirt and assuming the sword is repaired we are left with 4223 gold. I suggest that we take from this number to add to the caravan before dividing it amongst ourselves. Adding that to the 2000 gold that Ameiko is investing, we have a total of 6623 gold to work with.
For caravan stats I'm in favor of investing in two of the four. I figure it's better to be good at something than poor at everything. I would rank the stats Mobility, Morale, Defence, Offense. If we go all in on one stat, it should be mobility. Mobility allows for the oh so important Extra Wagons feat, reduces our travel times, which reduces our consumption and number of encouter rolls, and helps to prevent certain dangers of travel as we journey. So I vote 2 in Mobility and 1 in Morale.
At second level Enhanced Caravan is a must have. If it wasn't so awesome I'd call it a feat tax. I vote 1 in Morale and 1 in Defence.
We have plenty of money for addtional wagons, the drivers they will require, and any supplies we deem necessary. I'm for adding a covered and supply wagon, with drivers, to the ones already in the caravan at a total cost of 40gp/month
This gives us:
- 14 travellers (capacity of 18)
- 5 wagons with a cargo capacity of 32
- consumption of 21
We use up the cargo capacity with:
- Enhanced Undercarriage for each of the wagons (2500gp; 5 cargo)
- 1 unit of stores for each wagon (25gp; 5 cargo)
- 9 additional stores in supply wagons (45gp; 9 cargo)
- 1 unit of repair for each wagon (125gp; 5 cargo)
- 2 extra repair in supply wagons (50gp; 2 cargo)
- campsite traps (1000gp; 2 cargo)
- 4 units of trade goods(40gp; 4 cargo)
The enhanced undercarriage would allow us to move farther each day which further reduces our consumption and rolls for encounters. We would have about two weeks worth of consumables.
So after adding our loot and seed money then subtracting the cost of the caravan and drivers we have 1993 gold left. That divides six ways to 330 gold each with 13 gold left over that we used on fees, storage, and bribes because I like to work with whole numbers.
If we choose to go with Mobility 3 and the additional wagons, get rid of Enhanced Undercarriage, add another set of covered and supply wagons with drivers. This is where I'll suggest hireing 2 cooks, 2 guards, and a trader. We can't do everything after all. Including the 6 drivers, our hirelings would cost 110gp/month
This brings the caravan to:
- 21 travellers (capacity 26)
- 7 wagons with a cargo capacity of 46
- consumption 29
The cargo would be taken up with:
- 1 unit of stores for each wagon (35gp; 7 cargo)
- 19 additional stores in supply wagons (95gp; 19 cargo)
- 1 unit of repair for each wagon (175gp; 7 cargo)
- 4 extra repair in supply wagons (100gp; 4 cargo)
- campsite traps (1000gp; 2 cargo)
- 6 units of trade goods (60gp; 6 cargo)
- cold weather gear (200gp; 1 cargo)
We would have just over a week in consumables.
After adding our loot and seed money then subtracting the cost of the caravan and hirelings we have 3248 gold left. That divides six ways to 540 gold each with 8 gold left over that we used on fees, storage, and bribes because I like to work with whole numbers.
Check my numbers and/or let me know what you think.
Nice work Dax. I'll add that a horse-train might have a high consumption - but it gives us another edge in speed (which I also feel is very valuable). And as said previously, can double as food reserves in an emergency.
In case people have trouble appreciating how the horse train works (simply because I misinterpreted it initially): the horse train is a set of "fresh" horses that aren't pulling a particular wagon; by rotating the cart-pulling horses you can push them a bit harder - and thus have a bit of a speed increase. In other words you don't need a horse train per wagon; a single horse train is enough. (Though I don't know if horse trains can be stacked.)
Oh, and we don't need to hire traders. Anybody can trade, and typically it would happen at a settlement, where many of the traditional caravan positions would be open/unattended.
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I think my gold totals are off. I'll have to check them in a few hours once I'm away from the distractions of work.
Sandru or Ameiko could do it too. I figure there's nothing wrong with having one more to give that bonus. Plus there could be times when none of us are available work as a trader all day.
We're spending our personal shares of treasure on the caravan? You all can do that, but Gilfroy wants to outfit himself.
Yeah, I thought of that problem with Tevyn as a scout would not actually be around. It's one of those OOC vs. IC things. If Shalelu is doing the scouting then that's easily resolved.
Given the cost of repairing the sword, I'm now fully in favor of selling it broken.
I have to admit, this penny ante number crunching stuff for the caravan doesn't interest me much. I'm excited about the trip but all the resource tracking makes me want to grab a glass of something with alcohol in it.
I have to admit, this penny ante number crunching stuff for the caravan doesn't interest me much.
Oh, gosh, +1,000,000. If this were a real-life game, this is the part where I'd be in the other room watching the baseball game and telling everyone else to let me know when they're done with the boring part. It's all the work of building a character with no pay-off of a personality to play.
Also, if Corinna actually had any money, I would agree with Nazard in not wanting to spend it on wagons and supplies. I have enough PCs around these boards who are way under Wealth By Level. Why should the inanimate caravan get to have all the fun while the PCs are gear-starved?
Enhanced undercarriage is cool, but you have to have it on all of your wagons. That's a lot of freaking money. And Nazard and Corinna bring up valid points, you can't expect every pc to give up their share. Rajah isn't going to give all of his share to the caravan. He will use the majority of it to aid in the caravan, but there is some he is going to give to the temple.
And to be honest, I don't see Malan giving his away. But that's just me.
You really have to go with the 2000g and go from there.
And as per the horse trains... too much money. They are quite handy, but just too dang expensive. For now.
Outside of that, I like the Mobility and Morale, and then the Morale and Defence with the 2nd level feat. That's what I was thinking as well. The second level feat helps put me a bit at ease for sacrificing a point a 1st level by doubling up on Mobility.
And the Extra Wagons feat I thinks cool. It was either that or Enhanced Consumption. Both, in my mind, are necessary. Again, sticking with the 2000g, if we go by your proposal, using only the 2000g we could go with...
2 supply wagons (600g)
2 covered wagon (1000g)
...and go from there. That leaves 400g to do with whatever. We don't need guards, if Melon or Malan or Tevyn decide to go that route. Lore's right on trading, all it takes is one of us with Diplomacy or Bluff or Profession(Merchant). As far as cook, we have Ameiko for that. But I guess it's not to big a deal to hire another one.
If we only go with the cook, then our consumption drops(Because 29 is WAY to high) to... 27?! That 29 is a bit off. Based on what you have posted, total consumption for your method would be... 32.
2 cooks = 2
2 guards = 2
1 trader = 1
Current Npc's and pc's = 12
5 drivers = 5
7 wagons = 10
_____________
total = 32 total consumption(I guess with Shalelu, it would be 31)
Anyway, with 400g left over, it may not be possible to have 7 wagons. That's why in my initial post, I went with only 6 wagons. That way, we have 900g left to spend with a bit more freedom.
I have to admit, this penny ante number crunching stuff for the caravan doesn't interest me much. I'm excited about the trip but all the resource tracking makes me want to grab a glass of something with alcohol in it.
And I just died on this! Too funny. :D
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After subtracting the chain shirt and assuming the sword is repaired we are left with 3928 gold. I suggest that we take from this number to add to the caravan before dividing it amongst ourselves. Adding that to the 2000 gold that Ameiko is investing, we have a total of 5928 gold to work with.
For caravan stats I'm in favor of investing in two of the four. I figure it's better to be good at something than poor at everything. I would rank the stats Mobility, Morale, Defense, Offense. If we go all in on one stat, it should be mobility. Mobility allows for the oh so important Extra Wagons feat, reduces our travel times, which reduces our consumption and number of encounter rolls, and helps to prevent certain dangers of travel as we journey. So I vote 2 in Mobility and 1 in Morale.
At second level Enhanced Caravan is a must have. If it wasn't so awesome I'd call it a feat tax. I vote 1 in Morale and 1 in Defense.
We have plenty of money for additional wagons, the drivers they will require, and any supplies we deem necessary. I'm for adding a covered and supply wagon, with drivers, to the ones already in the caravan at a total cost of 40gp/month.
This gives us:
- 14 travelers (capacity of 18)
- 5 wagons (800gp) with a cargo capacity of 32
- consumption of 23
We use up the cargo capacity with:
- 1 unit of stores for each wagon (25gp; 5 cargo)
- 12 additional stores in supply wagons (60gp; 12 cargo)
- 1 unit of repair for each wagon (125gp; 5 cargo)
- 2 extra repair in supply wagons (50gp; 2 cargo)
- campsite traps (1000gp; 2 cargo)
- 6 units of trade goods(60gp; 6 cargo)
So after adding our loot and seed money then subtracting the cost of the caravan and drivers we have 3808 gold left. That divides six ways to 634 gold each with 4 gold left over that we used on fees, storage, and bribes because I like to work with whole numbers.
If we choose to go with Mobility 3 and the additional wagons, add another set of covered and supply wagons with drivers. This is where I'll suggest hiring 2 cooks, 2 guards, and a trader. We can't do everything after all. Including the 6 drivers, our hirelings would cost 110gp/month
This brings the caravan to:
- 21 travelers (capacity 26)
- 7 wagons (1600gp) with a cargo capacity of 46
- consumption 29 after cooks
The cargo would be taken up with:
- 1 unit of stores for each wagon (35gp; 7 cargo)
- 19 additional stores in supply wagons (95gp; 19 cargo)
- 1 unit of repair for each wagon (175gp; 7 cargo)
- 4 extra repair in supply wagons (100gp; 4 cargo)
- campsite traps (1000gp; 2 cargo)
- 6 units of trade goods (60gp; 6 cargo)
- cold weather gear (200gp; 1 cargo)
We would have just over a week in consumables.
After adding our loot and seed money then subtracting the cost of the caravan and hirelings we have 2553 gold left. That divides six ways to 425 gold each with 3 gold left over that we used on fees, storage, and bribes because I like to work with whole numbers.
Check my numbers and/or let me know what you think.
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In the time it took me to redo my post others have posted and I think we are now much closer to being on the same page. Let's scrap option 2 and work off option 1 with Extra Wagons. That way we have the flexibility to make changes to our caravan as needed in game play. At 20 gold per PC it is a cheap investment in the caravan. It keeps things simpler.
Total cash = 3928g. Divided by 6 = 654g 6s 6c each. That includes selling...
This is barring one of you actually wanting the wakizashi's. And a magical one at that. Hard to pass up a cold iron and a magical weapon. I wished I was a two-weapon fighter now and could use them. I sure as heck would. I assume they are exotic weapons and you have to burn a feat to use them, but I don't know.
Outside of that, I still lean heavily towards the first option, due to the fact that the other pc's have no obligation to donate their share of the treasure to the caravan. Like I said, all of Rajah's will not be going to the caravan either.
Now, me personally, I would add that, with the 2000g, we could purchase another supply wagon which brings us up to 6 wagons total.
Which then brings us to...
- 16 travellers (capacity of 20) (12 current npc's and pc's + 4 hired drivers. This is bare minimum of course. Odds are we're gonna have to hire for other positions.)
- 16 travellers consumption = 15(Not counting Shalelu)
- 6 wagons (1100gp) with a cargo capacity = 42
- 6 wagons consumption = 8
Total consumption = 23
We use up the cargo capacity with:
- 25 stores (125gp; 25 cargo)
- 8 repairs (200gp; 8 cargo)
- 5 trade goods(50gp; 5 cargo)
Which leaves us with 4 cargo spots left open for whatever. Treasure per the players guide rolls with 50lbs per cargo spot. But ultimately it's left up to DM discretion.
Total = 1475g. Leaving us 525g.
None of this includes spending any money from the pc's.
Now with that 525g, any money that is donated from pc's, could go to purchasing another covered wagon and food and repairs to go along with it. Or another supply wagon and food/repairs to go along with it. Which the latter can actually be covered completely by the 525g. The former can maybe be covered by it? Probaly not, when you could go with the supply wagon and necessary items, and then use what's left for monthly wages.
@Navior: When it comes to trade goods, can those be bought along the way like everything else?
In the time it took me to redo my post others have posted and I think we are now much closer to being on the same page. Let's scrap option 2 and work off option 1 with Extra Wagons. That way we have the flexibility to make changes to our caravan as needed in game play. At 20 gold per PC it is a cheap investment in the caravan. It keeps things simpler.
You beat me to the post. Option 1 is definitely the one I like best. I threw the 6 wagon in there for a possibility. If y'all aren't keen on that, then no biggie. Just leaves us with more money to spend. Or keep.
The main reason I threw it in there was due to more cargo capacity.(What I really want is an Armored Wagon. Those things are just awesome. But man are they expensive!)
(Based on the 5 wagons)With 15 travellers(14 consumption) and 5 wagons(7 consumption) we would need at least 21 stores to last us 10 days. I'm pushing the extreme here, in saying we run into no sign of life within that time. Probably not realistic. I'm just an overcompensater. :) ('Cause you know, in my mind, you can never have enough) :P
We could probably get by with 17 or 18 stores. Last us about 8 or so days. Which would allow us a few more repairs to purchase. Probably need at least 3 cargo slots left open for treasure. Minimum 2.
This is Dax's proposal as per the mechanics:
+2 Mobility at 1st
+1 Morale at 1st
1st level Feat = Extra Wagons
2nd level Feat = Enhanced Caravan
+1 Defence
+1 Morale
Does that sound good to y'all? Works for me.
Works for me. Not a whole lot one can buy for 654 gp. Could Gilfroy score a small wagon that Umbral could pull, or does that screw with the caravan mechanics?
You could always look at purchasing a cart from the Core rulebook, Nazard. That might work pretty well.
Here is the cart out of the d20.
Yeah, that's basically what I mean. But is it going to count as a "wagon", thereby increasing our consumption without really increasing any benefits, save that Gilfroy doesn't have to walk places?
You know, speaking of which, I completely forgot about Umbral. He actually counts toward consumption. Duh.
Unless we butcher him and cook him for dinner. Then he counts for provisions! ;)
COLOUR SPRAY!!!!!!!
Is it viable to get one of the wagons to have some levitation magic or something in the front wheels so we can make it bounce?
What role do you all want to take part in, if any? Not necessary, just wondering what other roles we might need to fill.
Just read on cooks. If we hire, probably about 2 cooks, and if we include Ameiko as being one, that would reduce our total consumption by 6. Cooks reduce consumption use by 2 per. Up to a max of 5 cooks reducing consumption by 10. (Barring feats, that is.) I think that would be pretty handy way to go.
Okay. Looking at your post again, Dax, I think that Option 2 can work. The only thing I don't have is the cold-weather gear and the campsite traps. I didn't take much of a look at it initially, seeing how it was costing pc's cash.
Now I've copied/pasted what you wrote and changed some things up.
If we choose to go with Mobility 3 and the additional wagons, add another set of covered and supply wagons with drivers. This is where I'll suggest hiring 2 cooks.
This brings the caravan to:
- 20 travelers (capacity 26)
. 13 npc's/pc's(including Umbral); 5 drivers; 2 cooks
. Consumption = 19(due to Shalelu being a scout)
- 7 wagons (1600gp) with a cargo capacity of 46
. 3 covered: 2 consumption per
. 3 supply: 1 consumption per
. 1 fortune teller: 1 consumption per
. Consumption = 10
Total consumption = 29; with 2 cooks consumption = 25(23 on any day that Ameiko might decide to cook)
The cargo would be taken up with:
- 25 stores (125gp; 25 cargo)
- 9 repairs (225g; 10 cargo)
- 5 units of trade goods (50gp; 5 cargo)
That's 40 cargo slots taken up. With 6 for treasure. Or we could use 2 or 3 for more food/repairs/trade. Or whatever.
And that's all within 2000g.
The total = 2000g. And everybody keeps their money. Yay!
Obviously, those of us who still wish to aid in the caravan can do so.(We'll have to if we want anything else.) Like the cold weather gear can be bought. By either one of us or a couple of us pooling our money together. We can use that with the 6 extra cargo slots we have left. I like the traps, but that's just a tonload of money.
With the 2 cooks and 5 drivers, that's 70g/month.
Guards are SUPER expensive.(100g/month) I just don't understand why someone would charge so much with their life on the line on a daily basis. Sheesh!
I think I like your 2nd option now, dude. Just with a few tweaks to keep it under the 2000g limit. I feel like I could be missing something, though. Mainly because it happens all the time. Let me know if I have.
@Rajah: I see, then dont see, a post. I just thought I should say: I like what Rajah does (i.e. makes absolutely sure that all his charges and companions stay alive no matter the risks). Melon can learn to appreciate that a lot.
@Caravan: I'm not 100% sure I get why we would want a big caravan (in the sense that 7+ wagons is the way to go). Aren't 3 wagons enough?
@Corinna: So... what will happen? Will we eventually convince her, or will we get a new PC?
Believe Navior and I have a plan worked out to get Corinna on board. Expect her to have to eat quite a lot of her words. :)
That is in fact my preferred solution. Good show - (and expect Melon to not approach Corinna much, she's not sharp, but she's got enough Sense Motive to eventually realize that she's not welcome with her) ;)
That's because I killed it. It solves nothing. I ultimately decided it it was just a bunch of rant that stirs up nothing but chaos. It just gets old after a while, constantly going back and forth. All that would've accomplished is more bickering. I'll just compensate and deal.
That is in fact my preferred solution. Good show - (and expect Melon to not approach Corinna much, she's not sharp, but she's got enough Sense Motive to eventually realize that she's not welcome with her) ;)
Heh. Couldn't resist one last speech about how she'd never, ever, under any circumstances join the caravan to Brinestump, not in a million years. Makes it more uncomfortably awkward when she has to backtrack. :)
She's obviously under some misapprehensions about Melon, as well. No doubt she'll eventually learn at least to tolerate her and assume her motivations are pure, even if her manners are questionable. Couldn't hurt to give her a little space, though, at least until she gets over her initial embarrassment.
@Caravan: No. We need at least 5. The 3 only holds 10 travelers. We have 13. 15 if you count the drivers we need. 17 if you count 2 cooks. Cooks are highly recommended. That reduce consumption by 2 each.
Plus, having only 5 puts us at 18 total traveler space.
The total cargo space is 18. If we have 17(which would be 16 per Shalelu being the scout) people,(including cooks) that makes our consumption = to 13(12 per Shalelu again). That doesn't leave a lot of room to haul trade goods and repairs and food.
We don't have to go 7 if y'all don't want. I just finagled it to where we could get 7 within a 2000g budget. That's the reason I like it so much. We've got plenty of food to last 10 days. And that doesn't include Ameiko(if she ever takes up the cook role. not really necessary though) and Shalelu who can gather 2 units of provisions if she spends the day hunting. That would take care of 2 travellers for that day. Heck, maybe hire 3 cooks. That's -6 on consumption.
Plus with 7 you've got a lot more room for cargo capacity. You've got 46 cargo capacity and what I've got listed actually takes up 39 slots. Not 40 as I initially listed. So we've got 7 slots to use for whatever we want extra. Probably should save 2 or 3 slots for treasure.
I think we should at least have 6. We probably should agree how many we want and then decide on how to go about putting it together.
Still waiting to find out how a small cart affects the caravan statistics (if at all) oh great, wise, and well-versed caravan experts.
You know, the more I look at it, the more I think we should hire at least 4 cooks.
With 7 wagons, I've got it at 22(26 total capacity) travelers.
Total consumption = 32(31 scout) - 4 cooks(-8 on consumption) = 23 per day.
With 6 wagons, I've got it at 21(24 total capacity) travelers.
Total consumption = 30(29 scout) - 4 cooks(-8 on consumption) = 21 per day.
But with 6 wagons I had to drop a supply wagon. With so many people we need at least 3 covered ones.
Which would give us 36 cargo capacity.
Trade = 5
Repairs = 6
Stores = 20
That leaves us 5 slots left open.(And I just threw those numbers out there)
1300g for wagons; 50g for trade; 125g for repairs; 100g for stores.
1575g total. Then purchase whatever else.
Anyway, that's why I like 7. There's more room to manuever. And I really think I like as many cooks as possible. The more I think about it, the more I think we ought to just max them out at 5.
But what I like about 6 is, we'll have a slot to purchase another wagon somewhere down the road and we won't have to burn another extra wagons feat to do it. We're probably going to have to anyway, but, maybe it'll be avoidable. Who knows?
Still waiting to find out how a small cart affects the caravan statistics (if at all) oh great, wise, and well-versed caravan experts.
I'm obviously far from an expert, but as long as Umbral's doing the pulling, a cart is just like a glorified backpack or bag of holding for Gilfroy's stuff, right? I'm not sure it would interact at all.
@Nazard: Me personally, I don't think it should have any affect.
It's got nothing to do with the caravan. You and Umbral still count as travelers, so, I don't see an issue with it. It's not going to increase consumption. Umbral's the one pulling it.
Probably something Navior should answer, though.
Still waiting to find out how a small cart affects the caravan statistics (if at all) oh great, wise, and well-versed caravan experts.
Sorry, crazy weekend has left me no time for anything.
I don't think a small cart would have any effect on the caravan. It would basically just count as one of Gilfroy's possessions and have no more effect on the caravan than his clothes. Umbral does count as a traveller, however, and does count towards consumption.
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I guess I took it for granted that everyone would be willing to invest in the caravan. It seems that I was wrong. Now that I think about it, I understand as even I am willing to invest only so much.
So everyone receives 654 gold, 6 silver, and 7 copper as their share.
Can we agree on these stats?
+2 Mobility at 1st
+1 Morale at 1st
1st level Feat = Extra Wagons
2nd level Feat = Enhanced Caravan
+1 Defence
+1 Morale
Javell, I have an issue with getting so many cooks and no guards or other hirelings. It seems too much about the numbers and not enough about the feel.
It seems too much about the numbers and not enough about the feel.
Agreed. Although the consumption is a big deal - like wagon repairs - its just a matter of having enough supplies. There's usually plenty of opportunity to replenish supplies - at least in the first two parts of Jade Regent.
Regarding guards, though, I think that most (PC?) travelers consider themselves guards as well as whatever they do. The "guard" post just comes with a mechanical benefit.
I don't think these positions will matter as much, as I think Navior prefers to modify the rules in such a way to make the individual PCs more relevant to the process.
People
- Melon, Malan, Corinna, Rajah, Gilfroy, Tevyn
- Ameiko, Sandru, Koja, Shalelu
- Sandru's driver 1 and driver 2
- (Umbral does not count as traveler, but counts towards consumption)
Current wagons
- Covered wagon (6 travelers, 4 capacity, 2 consumption)
- Fortune teller's wagon (2 travelers, 4 capacity, 1 consumption)
- Supply wagon (2 travelers, 10 capacity, 1 consumption)
11 travelers
10 traveler spaces available
16 consumption
18 supply spaces (for food and repair)
I should add that if Gilfroy rides Umbral all the time, then Gilfroy doesn't count towards traveler spaces. Likewise, anybody can buy a mount and ride it to reduce the traveler space capacity problem - by increasing the consumption instead. The traveler capacity is quite literally how much space is on a wagon for people to ride on.
Additionally, the 2000gp that Ameiko has made available also will need to cover the wages we pay to NPCs to travel with us.
Malan, Gilfroy wouldn't mind investing in the caravan if we were all getting a cut of the profits based on our percentage of investment, but since it seems we're coming almost as hirelings, it doesn't make sense for them to pay to work, essentially.
I'm torn on the cart, idea. It seems silly to say that all it does is carry Gilfroy's possessions, as Gil's total possessions if life are what he can carry with his 5 Strength. However, even saying that all it does is carry the party's possessions and treasures means it starts providing cargo space, which means it's using the caravan rules, so it should count as a wagon, which then makes it harder to get a real wagon. I could just say that Gil carries his stuff in the cart and enough food for Umbral, paid from his own pocket, thereby taking the cart and pony completely out of the equation, substituting caravan mechanics for straight money. Thoughts? Ruling? Accolades?
Also, I've been thinking about Gilfroy's "job" in the caravan. Either healer or entertainer would fit thematically, and as a spell caster, he can do both without the required ranks. Mostly, he'll be acting as an entertainer, switching to healer the day after a particularly bad beating. Does this work?
@Caravan: No. We need at least 5. The 3 only holds 10 travelers. We have 13. 15 if you count the drivers we need. 17 if you count 2 cooks. Cooks are highly recommended. That reduce consumption by 2 each.
Plus, having only 5 puts us at 18 total traveler space.
I haven't been reading up on the caravan rules all that carefully (whenever I do I keep getting distracted) so this may be a stupid question.
I'm getting the impression based on the above quote that we're buying wagons for up to 17 people to ride in the wagons.
Do people have to be riding on wagons? Can't people just have horses and accompany the wagon train on horse? Tevyn certainly isn't interested in riding a wagon all those miles. He'd much rather ride a horse and use the wagons to carry supplies.
Maybe I'm just misreading something.
Gilfroy will at least be riding Umbral, so he won't take up any traveler space in the caravan.
Do people have to be riding on wagons? Can't people just have horses and accompany the wagon train on horse? Tevyn certainly isn't interested in riding a wagon all those miles. He'd much rather ride a horse and use the wagons to carry supplies.
You're absolutely right. If you have independent travel means (or perhaps the Endurance feat and trust in your Constitution checks) you can just travel along without occupying travel capacity.
If Gilfroy rides Umbral, then by my reckoning we're fine with the 3 wagons we have currently. Though getting two additional horses should be just fine, frees up 2 traveler slots and increases consumption by 2. Perfect time to retroactively make your level 2 class "cavalier".
Better still, a flying carpet!
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I suspect there will be times when we aren't around and I want to provide for our mobile home's safety and success. If the rest of you aren't as concerned or just want to wait and see how things play out, I'll go along with the group.
As far as Umbral and the wagon, my question is can the wagon carry as much as a Bag of Holding (typeI)? If so, it can carry 1 unit of cargo per page 22. According to page 17, Umbral is either a draft animal or a traveler, either way, he uses 1 consumption.
We are not hirelings. No one offered Malan anything to accompany Ameiko or Koya on this journey. As things seem to stand, however, apart from any adventures we have along the way, this is not a money making venture (except for Sandru who got paid up front). Money can be made, but I see it as a good way to maintain our supplies rather than turning a profit. That being said, we would get a cut of any profits if there are any.
According to page 17, any mounts count against traveler capacity and take consumption. I hadn't considered them before, but I would want a horse as well.