Oh well. The group will have to come back to Sandpoint at the very end of the adventure path, having saved the day across the other side of the world, only to have an anti-climactic romp freeing Sandpoint from Poog and Pussl who have succeeded in enslaving the entire population, turning them into slave workers in their massive factories.
Of course, that final battle against the last goblins as they emerged from the cave was probably the one where Corinna was going to single-handedly save the day with a blistering streak of natural twenties, fighting tooth and nail with her sandlewood hair brush as everybody else went down to the merciless ravages of the rabid wolverine...but you forgot it.
Nice work.
Yeah, I figured Pussl was about to show up when I saw the tracks but I actually forgot about it by the time we left the caves as well. No big deal! Clearly Pussl is far too intelligent to attack a whole party of humans. Instead, he's going to track down the one with skin like jerky and take his revenge out on Old Foofelah! :)
Nazard has a good idea too.
Blue Rajah has one too many skill points. He can only have one favoured class, which is cleric since he took the bonus point last level, and so doesn't get a bonus point with paladin levels. Thus, he only gets 4 skill points this level, not 5.
Rajah has the Eclectic feat, which grants an additional favored class.
I would have loved to have a chance to fight Poog, channeling negative energy like that with everyone around him and practically killing us all. >:(
Blue Rajah has one too many skill points. He can only have one favoured class, which is cleric since he took the bonus point last level, and so doesn't get a bonus point with paladin levels. Thus, he only gets 4 skill points this level, not 5.Rajah has the Eclectic feat, which grants an additional favored class.
Whoops. You're right. My mistake.
Oh well. The group will have to come back to Sandpoint at the very end of the adventure path, having saved the day across the other side of the world, only to have an anti-climactic romp freeing Sandpoint from Poog and Pussl who have succeeded in enslaving the entire population, turning them into slave workers in their massive factories.
Of course, that final battle against the last goblins as they emerged from the cave was probably the one where Corinna was going to single-handedly save the day with a blistering streak of natural twenties, fighting tooth and nail with her sandlewood hair brush as everybody else went down to the merciless ravages of the rabid wolverine...but you forgot it.
Nice work.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!! That is just fantastic!!! I just died on this!
I can totally see a picture of Corinna finishing them off, then straightening her hair with said brush, while in the background, the wolverine is ravaging the last of our dead bodies.
That's just comedy right there.
He pauses thoughtfully. "Does anyone know anything about fireworks? What happens when fireworks get old?"
I don't even know what kind of roll that would be. Craft (alchemy)?
Navior, Melon might still insist on returning to find the last ship on the goblin map; you could still spring Poog and Pussl on the group then. Perhaps they've holed up in the wreck as a nice bachelor pad, a little goblin Odd Couple. Pussl is Felix. :)
Oh well. The group will have to come back to Sandpoint at the very end of the adventure path, having saved the day across the other side of the world, only to have an anti-climactic romp freeing Sandpoint from Poog and Pussl who have succeeded in enslaving the entire population, turning them into slave workers in their massive factories.
Of course, that final battle against the last goblins as they emerged from the cave was probably the one where Corinna was going to single-handedly save the day with a blistering streak of natural twenties, fighting tooth and nail with her sandlewood hair brush as everybody else went down to the merciless ravages of the rabid wolverine...but you forgot it.
Nice work.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!! That is just fantastic!!! I just died on this!
I can totally see a picture of Corinna finishing them off, then straightening her hair with said brush, while in the background, the wolverine is ravaging the last of our dead bodies.
That's just comedy right there.
+1
Navior, Melon might still insist on returning to find the last ship on the goblin map; you could still spring Poog and Pussl on the group then. Perhaps they've holed up in the wreck as a nice bachelor pad, a little goblin Odd Couple. Pussl is Felix. :)
Melon would figure she can run that little errand by herself. Probably en-route to bury the sword.
I don't know about Pussl, but I figure Poog would want to follow the demands of Zarongel and find a suitable place to put to torch. Probably away from the swamp. Things just don't burn that well in the swamp.
Melon would figure she can run that little errand by herself. Probably en-route to bury the sword.
After everything that's happened the last few days, Melon would still think about going into the swamp alone?
That girl is loco, man.
Well, Melon would figure strange monsters, goblins and skeletons have already been handled. All that would be left would be mosquitos, crocodiles, feral turtles, and maybe some aggressive otters. ;)
Tevyn moves closer to assist Sandru with the closer inspection of the chest. This was the first time he'd gotten a good look at it.
1d20 + 8 ⇒ (1) + 8 = 9
And apparently he still hasn't gotten a good look at it. ;)
And apparently he still hasn't gotten a good look at it. ;)Tevyn moves closer to assist Sandru with the closer inspection of the chest. This was the first time he'd gotten a good look at it.
1d20 + 8 ⇒ (1) + 8 = 9
Melon must have been standing too close, and Tevyn got distracted looking at the wrong chest.
Clearly there were just too many people in the way.
The funny thing is, I actually wrote the post about 12 hours ago but it didn't go through the first time. I sent it again an hour ago but by then everyone else had posted.
That's the one thing I dislike most about pbps. At least at the table, if your rolls suck you can try a different die. It might not do any better for you but you at least feel like you have the option. With the die roller here, you're just stuck with it. I've been rolling 1's in all my games today.
Not to mention that the pace is faster at the table, so you have more chances to roll and get past a bad streak and move on. In PbP, it just sits and festers.
If we were around a table, I'm already past the switching-dice point. By this time, I'd be in the next room watching TV and telling someone else to run my character and let me know how it all turns out. :P
Rubbish, it's your own fault for not having a post where Corinna jumps over a ditch, climbs up a wall, stealthily, then (in disguise) arrived at the house, bluffing the guard and charming the maid with some random stray bit of knowledge, all the while trying to make it to the master bedroom so you can appraise the picture on the wall.
Streak. Done.
There doesn't seem to be any indication of arcane knowledge in the letter. Just more Kaijitsu family drama. From the information Corinna has access to, none of this holds any academic interest. You may know there's more to it, but the PCs don't.
What? you mean the man she hasn't seen for ten years and doesn't know at all? On the basis that he smiled at her once, she's supposed to chuck her career and abandon her family to follow him around and throw herself at him in the hopes that he might one day show an interest in her? Not very empowering of women.... ;)
Well, RotRL is more obviously arcane research things. Jade Regent is more about the great unknown.
If its about job security, I imagine that Corinna's services could be hired. Nobody says things are for free on a trip. We don't have that many wizards to chose from in Sandpoint - hiring Corinna could be an option.
Ultimately, I think it's going to be up to Joana to find the motivation for Corinna to join the group. It's not like the set-up for this adventure is a surprise, after all. The Player's Guide made it quite clear that we'd be going on a long overland journey far from the comforts of civilization. I've always believed that the onus was on the player to find the motivation for the character to take part in whatever adventure we're playing in.
Of course, that's no help to you Joana but I think it's something that bears saying nonetheless.
Ultimately, I think it's going to be up to Joana to find the motivation for Corinna to join the group. It's not like the set-up for this adventure is a surprise, after all. The Player's Guide made it quite clear that we'd be going on a long overland journey far from the comforts of civilization. I've always believed that the onus was on the player to find the motivation for the character to take part in whatever adventure we're playing in.
Of course, that's no help to you Joana but I think it's something that bears saying nonetheless.
Can't disagree. Sometimes as a player, if it's just not working out for you intially, you just have to come up with something, somewhere, to make it happen. That is, if you really like the character. Just look for something that might work. Otherwise, you're never going to have any fun at all. You don't want to go through this game not having any fun. There's no point in that.
Honestly, I got sidetracked with the whole Valdemar family drama. I started out the game with only a very vague conception of what her family was like, but then Navior started playing them all as NPCs, and before I knew it, I painted Corinna into a corner where she looks like a self-centered jerk for throwing away her career and abandoning her mother.
Then, like I said, my whole original conception of an academic wizard finding success and excitement in the field got shot all to heck by the cruelty of the dice. There might well be some intriguing reference hidden behind those Knowledge (history) spoilers that would have motivated her to go solve a historical mystery and bolster her publishing record and academic record, as LoreKeeper says, but since she didn't make the roll, we'll never know. There's nothing in the text of the letter itself that indicates there's anything in Brinewall of interest to more than the Kaijitsus.
The AP seems to rely rather heavily on the Everybody Loves Ameiko angle, but by the time I realized that, I'd already characterized her as being jealous of Ameiko for years so there's not a lot of motivation to "helping Ameiko solve a family secret." And when I chose the Childhood Crush trait, I didn't appreciate that the Jade Regent relationship rules would preclude her actually having a relationship with Sandru. Sure, if Sandru asked her to go adventuring, she'd go ... but he can't, because the way the relationship rules are coded in with XPs, they can't be "friends" yet.
So, in my defense, that's at least three adventure hooks in fluff (fledgling adventurer, academic fieldwork, and romantic angle) that have been squashed by the mechanics. So I either have to come up with a fourth one or dump the character.
Yeah, I think the whole Valdemar family drama kind of backfired on me. That said, I agree with Wander and Javell that players need to find a motivation or reason for their characters to be there. And most of the time, it's possible to find a reason for even really obstinate characters. However, if it's just not working in the end, then retiring that character and starting a different one may need to be a consideration. Otherwise, it's just not going to be fun in the long run.
I agree that the relationship rules pose a stumbling block. As people may recall, I expressed concern about them right from the start. I think they can be useful for groups that aren't used to doing a lot of rp, but for myself, I find them quite limiting. I'm strongly considering dropping them, but I'm curious what other people think. I know we haven't had a chance to really do anything with them yet, so I can accept the argument that I haven't given the rules much of a chance. Still...
At any rate, the mention of them now has reminded me that upon gaining your new level, you each get to raise your relationship with one NPC of your choice by 1 point (assuming we keep the system). This will actually put Corinna only 1 point from friendship with Sandru (assuming she puts the point into her relationship with him). Also, for getting the letter to Ameiko, you all gain 1 point of relationship with her. :)
I think they're lame. I've had plenty of PCs in relationships without keeping track of points, and I find it kind of creepy that the way to another person's heart is to ply them with gifts. By the Jade Regent RAW, Lorenz and Sasha wouldn't have been able to get together because he didn't buy her stuff, and I'm pretty sure that Ameiko didn't have to give Alder presents and level up several times to get his attention. Then again, I'm obviously better at flirting than I am at rolling dice. :P
I don't mean to be criticizing, Joana. I was just thinking that there are so many barriers to Corinna's situation with the party and a lot of players are going overboard in trying to involve her yet nothing seems to be working. Ultimately, though, the only one who can resolve those are you and it's entirely dependent on what you decide to do with the character.
Anyway, I've been in a situation where I was so busy trying to be true to the character that I forgot the reason I created the character in the first place. And ultimately, a character is created to take part in a campaign. It's easy to forget that sometimes. For me, at least.
Navior: As far as the relationship rules go, I'm not sure what my opinion is yet. With Aago I purposely made him transparent in his motivation. With Tevyn I'm trying to do the opposite. So I don't know if I'm making any progress or if it's just a total flop so far. It's all kind of a mystery for me.
So does that mean I'm 1 point away from a friendship with Ameiko if I apply my point to her? Or have I reached the friendship level with the letter? It is strange to have all that information about the NPCs yet start without having a friendship with the NPC that you choose a corresponding trait with.
Just curious; so far she seems to be ignoring Tevyn, though that's not too big of a surprise considering Melon's attention grabbing ways. :)
Edit to add: Joana's points in the previous post about keeping track of points and how Sasha and Lorenz wouldn't have formed the relationship they have with the current system are good ones. It IS sort of creepy.
My opinion--from the outset as well--of this whole relationship business, is poor.
I don't like it. It's just too contrived. I like it better when/if it just happens. Of course, that's why I didn't pick one and wasn't going to. Just look at how difficult it is with Corinna. You better roll high and/or have a high charisma. And you got a roll a 15. That's tough enough to roll that high on a "to hit" roll.
Heck, I'm not even a fan of giving them gifts to help your cause. Same as above opinion, too contrived. Just let it happen. In my opinion, this should have never been a part of it. I guess Paizo meant to have NPC's to become less of a "redshirt", I don't know.
Again, I didn't choose any of the relationship traits and I can deal with the whole gift giving bit. Even though, I'm not really a fan of any of it.
But that's just me.
I don't mind dropping the relationship rules if people don't like them. Obviously, Gilfroy is rocking the relationship rules with his super Charisma. I would point out that these rules are intended for groups that don't rp, as has been stated above. With a group such as this, that does do a considerable amount of rp, there's no reason not to expand the rules and say that inter-personal interactions could help develop the relationships as well as gifts (gifts are easy with the basic rules, because they turn these relationships into something the characters can "buy", which is something the hack-and-slashers can be more comfortable with).
I don't know the background between this Sasha and Lorenz, but surely there were significant moments of interactions that could have taken the place of the "gifts" the core relationship rules insist on using. If you think about it in that light, do the rules make more sense, or at least less creepy?
Not so much. They took watch together and talked (and Douena used to eavesdrop because they were on watch when she was learning her spells), but there weren't any "significant moments." Lorenz had a crush on her from the beginning, and they just kind of drifted together. The main participants can feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but I didn't see any turning points.
I'm in another game where my PC is having a romance with another PC. They had just met, the group was invited to a party, he asked her to dance, and they ended up in bed together; been together ever since. There was just a spark.
Heck, I'm not even a fan of giving them gifts to help your cause. Same as above opinion, too contrived. Just let it happen. In my opinion, this should have never been a part of it. I guess Paizo meant to have NPC's to become less of a "redshirt", I don't know.
I think you've hit the nail on the head here. There are groups out there for whom NPCs are nothing more than "redshirts". They don't really care about them and they certainly don't develop relationships with them beyond using them as tools in the same way they would use an inanimate object (and sometimes care less for them than an inanimate object). The relationship rules for Jade Regent are clearly set up to give groups like that a reason to treat the NPCs as something more than just objects. But when you've got a group that already treats NPCs like people, there's not much point to the system.
I think that adding some sort of point rewards for inter-personal interactions would be far too difficult to create. How exactly do you codify such interactions and decide how many points each are worth? In the end, you're down to arbitrary decisions. Which is fine, except then you don't need the points at all, and you're back to just winging it. So might as well throw out the system altogether. Then you're not stuck with extremely limiting categories. Real relationships are a lot more subtle than can be expressed with just four categories, and creating more categories just creates more paperwork and headache.
At any rate, this discussion has pretty much convinced me to drop the relationship rules. Unless anyone has a serious objection, consider them gone. :)
I don't mind the relationship rules; just (like Nazard) I think that "gifts" is too limiting a way to think about it. In the JadeRegent that I GM irl, time spent-together in meaningful ways counts more than gifts.
Consider the scope: the campaign takes place over the course of a couple of years. If you reckon it like that, a "gift" takes place on average once every 3 or 4 months. That is not an unnaturally fast time for a series of gifts; especially it you allow meaningful together-time as a gift.
Regarding the level-up, Corinna, and Sandru: Corinna could find one more instance to interact with Sandru. Maybe give him a parting gift (to give herself closure) then roll ridiculously well and get that extra +1 to bypass an arbitrary threshold where Sandru looks meaningfully in her eyes and says "you're standing on my toes".
...
hahahahahaha, sorry, I just remembered. One of my players in my JadeRegent chose to go the "rival" route with Sandru (he was one of the drivers of the caravan); at one stage he staged a push-up contest with Sandru. He won barely (at least against Sandru, the paladin kicked both their asses). In this case I totally counted that as a special "gift"-level encounter between them.
I'm fine with throwing out the relationship rules, but what about the bonus stuff that come along with the Background Traits for Corinna and Tevyn? I like the charisma check to get a little perk, even if the chances are slim for success.
I'm fine with throwing out the relationship rules, but what about the bonus stuff that come along with the Background Traits for Corinna and Tevyn? I like the charisma check to get a little perk, even if the chances are slim for success.
We'll keep the campaign traits. Their bonuses and effects work independently of the relationship point rules anyway.
hahahahahaha, sorry, I just remembered. One of my players in my JadeRegent chose to go the "rival" route with Sandru (he was one of the drivers of the caravan); at one stage he staged a push-up contest with Sandru. He won barely (at least against Sandru, the paladin kicked both their asses). In this case I totally counted that as a special "gift"-level encounter between them.
See, while I think it's great that you considered this a "gift"-level encounter (I would, too, although technically I suppose it's an "insult"-level encounter), this is a perfect example of how this just enters the realm of arbitrary decision. Without codified rules (which would be ridiculously over-complex), it's all based on GM whim. Now, GM whim happens all the time in the game, and that's perfectly fine. In-game relationships can advance perfectly well based on GM whim (see Lorenz-Sasha), in which case, why is it necessary to have a point score for them? Relationships can be a lot more dynamic and fluid when there isn't a point score saying, "No, you can't be friends with so-and-so because you need three more points first. You're going to have to have three more gift-level encounters or gain a few levels." Not only that, with the points, people who take the Best Friends trait (like Melon) can't actually be best friends with their chosen NPC. They have to start as just associates unless they have a really high Charisma.
I wouldn't consider the relationship level-name as indicative of the actual relationship. i.e. you could be best friends even with a zero-score. Giving the levels names simply makes them more accessible than saying "I've got a level 2 relationship" which feels a bit too dry for something that is supposed to intimate relationships.
Furthermore, the point of the relationship levels, to me, is not so much in fostering a bond with an NPC (which is a given depending on the history and roleplaying taking place). Instead it is to reflect how that bond deepens to the point of affecting the characters mechanically.
Melon >is< a best friend of Ameiko - but maybe, around level 7 or so in-game that bond naturally deepens to the point that Melon has a constant bonus-to-saves.
But yes, I don't really mind either way.
Hey Navior, should we lower our xp's to match the others?
That way, there would be no need to keep track of different xp's.
Hey Navior, should we lower our xp's to match the others?
That way, there would be no need to keep track of different xp's.
Hey you, SHUSH!!! Maybe he wasn't going to notice!
;)
Hey Navior, should we lower our xp's to match the others?
That way, there would be no need to keep track of different xp's.
I hate to take XP away from people (even if it's XP you never really earned), so I'm more inclined to give everyone else 400 bonus XP.
I don't think we really care. It's not so much the loss of this one bit of xp, but the fact that Gilfroy was going to net 400 bonus xp every few levels by putting three relationship points for all the NPCs.
Quick Javell and Nazard! Push your relationship scores to the next threshold!
I hate to take XP away from people (even if it's XP you never really earned), so I'm more inclined to give everyone else 400 bonus XP.Hey Navior, should we lower our xp's to match the others?
That way, there would be no need to keep track of different xp's.
I like that plan!
Disrelated but hilarious: figure out the secret code!
No worries, Navior. Nobody really wants those extra xp's anyway. We don't mind taking those away from our score. I'm almost sure everyone here would totally understand. ;)
Quick Javell and Nazard! Push your relationship scores to the next threshold!
Quick, then, an appropriate gift for Ameiko. Um...here Ameiko, here's the crushed skull of your grandfather's trusted aid we cut down to get you this chest. Can we be pals?
Or if anybody here has a headband of charisma they've been wearing as a belt to enhance certain aspects of their "physical comeliness", now's the time to fess up.
When Amelia offers the treasure to the group, he looks somewhat astounded. "It is a generous offer but you've already given so much."
I don't know who this Amelia is, but it sounds like Tevyn doesn't want in on the treasure. Split five ways only, then!
Seriously, what is my problem? I have this weird obsession with that Amelia girl, whoever she is. Good thing I only do that here, or my wife might have a problem with it!
Tevyn will take his share of the treasure if Ameiko is certain she wants to give it up. ;)
Corinna won't even take a free meal from Ameiko; she's not about to take treasure.
W00t! Fivewaysplit!
...and I suspect Corinna is starting finely along the path of Ameiko-rivalry.
Lore. Dude. Must you always be so disgusting? Seriously. Is this what we have to constantly look forward too?
Hey! Maybe that's how we can convince Corinna to come along. Sandru's concubine!!
Ah yes. And here I thought there was only one Lorekeeper in this thread.
I guess that'll teach me.
Lore. Dude. Must you always be so disgusting? Seriously. Is this what we have to constantly look forward too?
Yes, Melon is a classy girl :) - she's trying to keep it to one a page at least. Though actually disgusting it is not. Somewhat crude, sure, but not disgusting.
Edit: I should add that that is how I represent Melon's 8 Cha