This is the discussion thread for two campaigns:

Navior's We Be Goblins / Jade Regent OOC


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It figures that right after mentioning how we sometimes write things in a way we later regret, I go and do something similar! I completely left out a sentence in my last post! While I mentioned that you'd be welcome back if you change your mind, Javell, I completely neglected to say that I really do hope you change your mind. I echo Nazard's and Wander's responses that I don't want to see you go, but I will respect your decision if that's what you want it to be.


Woah. Stuff happened while Paizo was down.

I'm also pretty sure that AK was talking about my post. I think if possible, maybe stay a while longer Javell - at least until the Brinewall has been cleared. In terms of story development, we've only just finished the prologue of the story. It would be fun to keep it going a while longer, yes?


Nazard:

Entertainingly, for me, "crass" in German (kraß or krass) is colloquially used as "hardcore in a cool way". Then again, German is a fun language - the typical word to use for "cool", other than "cool" itself, is "geil" (like "file" but with a "g"), which more accurately means "arousing" or "horny".

Grand Lodge

I vote that you stay, Javell.

I'd like to give a try at the Caravan rules and vote for option 2.

Oh! Javell, you should stay.


Navior wrote:
Okay, Caravan Team. I need your final decisions regarding the caravan ASAP, so I can advance the time to the 16th and get this show moving. :)
Melon Sash wrote:
@Navior: actually I think everybody has opted for "2" and our primary caravanist's future is uncertain.

I was going to ask, do we have a "Caravan Team," or do we just have Dax? Certainly cuts down ambiguity about who to blame if we end up stranded on the side of the road. ;)


Yeah, I guess we haven't actually formally made a Caravan Team. As far as I'm concerned, anyone who wants to be on the team can be on it. Just say so. At the moment, I'm presuming Joana and Wander Weir don't want to be on it, and that Dax does want to be on it and probably Lorekeeper and Nazard as well.

We do need to have the caravan designed soon, though, or else I'll switch to option 3 as I threatened a few posts back.

Lorekeeper, I'm a bit confused by your comment. I'm well aware everyone chose option 2, but what do you mean by "our primary caravanist's future is uncertain"?


Male Humanly Awesome 'n Totally Rockin' Paladin of Greatness

I appreciate the sentiments, people. I really do. And nothing any of you have said or done has caused this. It's a culmination of things, really.

Like I said, it's my own fault. It seems at one point or another, since the beginning, I've been at odds with somebody for some reason or another. And I don't like that. It makes me tired. It truly does.

Early on it was Dax/Malan. Then Wander/Aago. Then Nazard/Gilfroy. Lastly Lore/Melon. I know if I was on y'all's side of it, I'd be wondering how long this dude's gonna keep this up AND I'd be getting sick of it.

A game is meant to be fun. Whether it's D&D, a board game, sports, whatever, and when there is one dude--and all it takes is one--who seems to have to constantly gripe or complain or whatever the case, it makes a game a lot less fun for everybody. I refuse to be that guy.

So, again, it's not anything any of you've said or done. Me posting a bit more properly might help, that's for sure. Like your post Navior. You stated this: 'While I did find your post a little heavy-handed'.... Now that's proper. And honest. I like that. That helps me look at me. I always try to place myself in the other person's spot to see how they might react to such. Unfortunately, here lately, I haven't done that. And again, because of it, I'm literally just exhausted from it. LITERALLY.

So I figured it best if I step away. It allows you cats to continue on and enjoy the game AS IT SHOULD BE. And I can be at peace that I'm not around the corner waiting to pounce, while you all are looking over your shoulders expecting me too. (I don't really do that, but it feels like that's what I'm doing)

I do have to comment on something, though.(Uh-oh, this could be trouble) Yeah this is directed at you Lore.(I know, here we go again. This time, I'm gonna try and be cool. Like bowties.) You know, AK is right about that post of yours. I don't really understand why you would, in essence, make fun of her like that, myself. I guess it's possible you could be angry at her for her dislike of Melon, I don't know. Whatever the case, there's truly no reason to take such a personal shot like that. It's actually a bit on the high school side of things. You know, I don't know how old you are, so, it could be possible you are in high school. *shrugs* I truly don't know. Anyway, hopefully that was at least slightly calmer than my previous post(s).

Alright. Just a couple more thoughts to add to the bonfire and I'll leave you people in peace.(I have been considered a haunt from time to time, though.)

Thought #1:
I hate to admit it, but, you cats are pretty cool. ALMOST as cool as Bowties. Almost. :)

Thought #2:
(You are cooler than Fez's, though... but just barely.) ;)


Quote:
Lorekeeper, I'm a bit confused by your comment. I'm well aware everyone chose option 2, but what do you mean by "our primary caravanist's future is uncertain"?

Well, until now we've all rooted for Javell to stay in the game. And I considered him a primary caravanist.

Quote:
I do have to comment on something, though.(Uh-oh, this could be trouble) Yeah this is directed at you Lore.(I know, here we go again. This time, I'm gonna try and be cool. Like bowties.)

No worries; from my perspective I've played with Joana for a fairly long time - I know that she's grownup and smart and is without doubt (in my opinion at least) the best roleplayer that I know and have the pleasure to play with.

As such I took what she said as a bit tongue in cheek. In other words, sure she still as some high school issues in the sense that we all have some bully, or horrible teacher, or incident, or whatever that we remember "fondly" from those days. But at the same time I know that she's got real and more pressing issues and that things from school more than two decades ago rarely keep her up at night. That led me to my comment as I thought it both funny and telling of the human condition (come on, those memes are funny! Always crack me up).

I think it is great that everybody jumps in as knights in shining armor to protect a lady's honor. Rest assured that Joana can and will contact me (public or private) when she has a problem with what I say.

...

Separate: now I don't have trouble with everybody posting their opinion (and particularly when a girl is defended) - but you should also know that by doing so you limit the girl's options: if Joana now says "that wasn't cool Lore" then obviously I feel bad (and I apologize in advance if I've made her feel bad) - but alternately if she says "actually I thought Lore was funny" then it reflects poorly on those who jumped in to protect her.


Oh forgot to mention.

Navior: as I said at the start, I'm not keen on forming the caravan specifics - I've just given my opinions on what is good, and trust in whoever goes to town to sort it all out.

Grand Lodge

Here is my new offering for the group's consent. I chose to go with simple and sensible and feel that this submission is much more streamlined and will be to everyone's liking. Thank you very much for all of the feedback from all of you. I have also taken the liberty of making these changes on the campaigns google site website.

For caravan stats I'm in favor of investing in two of the four. I figure it's better to be good at something than poor at everything. I would rank the stats Mobility, Morale, Defense, Offense. If we go all in on one stat, it should be mobility. Mobility allows for the oh so important Extra Wagons feat, reduces our travel times, which reduces our consumption and number of encounter rolls, and helps to prevent certain dangers of travel as we journey. So I vote 2 in Mobility and 1 in Morale. At second level Enhanced Caravan is a must have. If it wasn't so awesome I'd call it a feat tax. I vote 1 in Morale and 1 in Defense.
- Stats
Mobility 3
Morale 3
Defense 2
Offense 1

I'm for adding one covered and three supply wagons. In addition to two cooks, we should hire enough drivers for all of the wagons to free up all of our important people for other duties.
This gives us:
- 19 travelers (capacity of 22)
* 6 PCs + Umbral who is not counted
* 4 major NPCs
* 7 drivers and 2 cooks
- total consumption 26 = PCs w/ Umbral 7 + Major NPCs 4 + hirelings 9 + wagons 9 – cooks 2 – scout 1

- 7 wagons with a cargo capacity of 52
* 2 covered wagons
* fortune teller wagon
* 4 supply wagons

We use up the cargo capacity with:
- 10 units of trade
- 7 units of repair
- 35 units of supplies; enough for about 13 days

After all of this, we have have 60 gold left from Ameiko's 2000 gold investment. With that we could hire more cooks or a wainwright or something.
Finally, don't forget that any of us can invest in the caravan as well.


Looks good (in that I can look at abstract art with no understanding and say the same thing*).

*Actually, that's not true. Most modern art actually looks like crap.


Male Human Traveler / 8

Caravan: Your final choices look good to me, Dax. I'm to add my support to your layout.

I've got a quick question for Navior: These NPCs we're hiring for the various roles such as cook on the caravan. Are they going to be essentially the invisible servants who perform their roles largely in the background, or are they intended to be full-fledged members of the group? If the latter's the case, is there anything we can do to make that easier on you? Whereas I don't have much interest in the caravan calculations I can enjoy creating NPCs or adding extra flavor to them.

I'm guessing that providing too much life to the non-starring members of the caravan would slow down the game considerably but I thought it was worth asking.

Navell: Naturally it's your decision as to whether or not to go. I support whatever you decide. From my own, limited, perspective, I didn't think there was so much friction between Rajah and the group as you might feel but I'm not you so I can't say one way or another with any degree of authority.

All I really have to say at this point is that this is just a game. It's largely played anonymously and as a result there's bound to be little bumps and misunderstandings along the way but in the end it's still just a game. I don't think that things, especially those said in the IC forum, should be taken personally. Even though we've been playing this particular pbp for quite a while very little time has passed between our characters and we're still feeling our way through to who we are IC and how we relate to each other.

Ultimately the only real priority is to have fun and if you're not having fun, to figure out a way to correct that. If there's nothing that can be done at this point to do that then your decision to leave is likely the right one. But I'll still say that I enjoyed Rajah in the group and will miss him if he's gone.

And that's all I'll say about that. It's a beautiful day out here in New Hampshire this morning so I'm going to go take the dog out and throw things for him. :)


I'm with Nazard in having no comprehension of what Dax posted or what the viable alternatives would be. The first rule of Caravan Team is don't talk about Caravan Team. :)

Re: Rajah. I think in a group where the Neutral Good PCs are seen as stuffy killjoys, a paladin would be a hard sell. There are those who enjoy playing out IC conflict and those who don't (I'm among the latter). If he's not up for constant friction and the very thought of having the same arguments over and over for umpteen levels exhausts him as it does me, I think he's wise to leave at a convenient story juncture to explain his disappearance from the storyline.

And my feelings and whether or not they were hurt are irrelevant to the thread and not up for discussion. ;P


Male Humanly Awesome 'n Totally Rockin' Paladin of Greatness

Man, Joana, you are very insightful. I never even thought of that. I could not understand for the life of me, why I was battling with you people so much. I do not have this problem with any of my other threads. Not a single one. I've had one issue with a a dude in another thread, we talked it out and it's all good. And it was OOC. It really wasn't pc related(even though my character's a paladin). That group actually gets along pretty well. Heck, all of my threads they do. I'm in like 8 or 9 or so.

I do know this: If I was running a dwarf fighter(or something to that nature) I GUARANTEE YOU I wouldn't have issues with you people. Well, except for Melon. But that's because, as a player, I'm not fond of Lorekeeper's crudeness.

It just goes to show, how difficult it is to run a Lawful Good pc in a pbp game. At least in my opinion. And run it properly.

I still make no excuses as to my posting, BUT, you have to admit, what Joana said does have validity to it.

Thanks, Joana. Man I just couldn't understand why. That helps clear up a lot.


*shrug* I thought it was fairly clearly an alignment issue. Had a similar situation over in AK's Sargava game, with one PC the outlier who was constantly disappointed in the rest of the party's choices. That was more of a Good/Neutral divide than a Law/Chaos one, but still. It all comes down to party make-up. Nothing wrong with any of the PCs individually; sometimes they just can't get along as a group. And, like I said, some people aren't bothered by the IC conflict and have a great time playing it out. I am not one of those people.

Grand Lodge

If everything else in my suggestions for the caravan are ok with everyone, or at least all that have posted so far, please don't forget that there is still room to invest in the caravan if there is something you feel that is needed and we don't have. Also, now that I think about it, didn't someone want to bring along a horse or two? I'll search through the posts and see what I find.


Tevyn bought one. Don't know about anyone else.

EDIT: I take that back: I can also tell you that Corinna does not have one. :)


I'm happy with caravan decisions; we're ready to go.

Quote:

Well, except for Melon. But that's because, as a player, I'm not fond of Lorekeeper's crudeness.

That should be "I'm not fond of Melon's crudeness". Before you say such things, you should look through my other pbps and my other characters in them. Generalizing Melon's crudeness to me, as a player, is not justified.


Male Human Traveler / 8

As Joana pointed out, Tevyn bought a horse. He also contributed 125 gp to the caravan coin in exchange for the chain shirt he got out of the shirt. It's not much, but it might help with something.


Wander Weir wrote:
I've got a quick question for Navior: These NPCs we're hiring for the various roles such as cook on the caravan. Are they going to be essentially the invisible servants who perform their roles largely in the background, or are they intended to be full-fledged members of the group? If the latter's the case, is there anything we can do to make that easier on you? Whereas I don't have much interest in the caravan calculations I can enjoy creating NPCs or adding extra flavor to them.

For the most part, they'll be background characters, saying and doing little beyond their jobs. I'll give them names, but do little more than that at first. One or two of them may end up developing a little more if things just happen to play out that way. Feel free to improvise details about them as needed, and I'll run with it. :)

So, it looks like we have a caravan all worked out. Hooray! It also appears the Caravan Team is just Dax. That's okay! It will be on his head when you all die in the first encounter. ;)

I'll transfer the details onto the caravan sheet on the website as soon as I get a moment later today.


Quote:
It also appears the Caravan Team is just Dax. That's okay! It will be on his head when you all die in the first encounter. ;)

Hah! Finally someone else to blame other than the infernal dice roller ;)

Grand Lodge

Dax is just pawn in game of life.

That dice roller has a hard on to get me killed. Some other schmuck should do the rolling.

Oh, I'll correct the caravan info later tonight.


Dax Thura wrote:
Oh, I'll correct the caravan info later tonight.

That's okay. I already went through and updated a bunch of things (although I just realized I forgot about Tevyn's horse when adjusting the consumption; I'll go back and fix that).

I haven't put in finalized jobs for the PCs yet, however (other than listing them all as heroes).


Your horse needs a name, Tevyn.


Male Human Traveler / 8
Joana wrote:
Your horse needs a name, Tevyn.

I was wondering if someone would bring that up. He hasn't given the horse one yet, preferring to wait until he knows it better.


Tevyn wrote:
"This Minkai," Tevyn asks, "Is it a city? Or a country? I know very little about that part of the world."

Totally want to see the Knowledge (geography) roll on this. She only has a +2. :P

(Of course, it'll probably end up being a natural 20.)


Melon Sash wrote:

"Hah! Then it's time for a story I say!"

Malan wrote:
"Not now though. Tonight. Under the stars as we camp. Perhaps there is something in your family's past that could prove useful in your quest, Ameiko. Telling stories of your family may help you to remember something critical in time."

*Sideshow Bob shudder* Self-absorbed bards are truly the bane of my PbP existence. :P


@Melon & Malan: Way to go, Team Low Charisma! Now you've made poor Ameiko all sad by dredging up those unhappy memories!

(No, seriously, way to go! Thumbs up!) ;)


Low charisma but high wisdom: it's therapeutic, it will make Ameiko a happier person in the long run.


Malan wrote:
Malan is going to go with Spellcaster. He'll serve the function of a scout for now and give the caravan a +1 on security checks. The roll of Spellcaster might work well for Gilfroy and Corinna too as it allows you to take on one of many roles, even ones you aren't otherwise eligible to do. Just another way in which spell casters are awesome.

Just another way in which the caravan rules are stupid, imo. :P It flies against every approximation of common sense to say that Corinna, who has no ranks in Knowledge (nature) or Survival or Heal, can serve as a scout or a healer just because she casts spells, especially when none of the spells in her spellbook have anything to do with being stealthy or knowing anything about nature or healing.


I think it's a generalization that needs to be taken with a grain of salt. Gilfroy can be a healer because he has a rank in Heal, but even if he didn't, his ability to cast healing spells would cover that (though if he'd run out of them, could he still be a healer?). I see no reason why a pure wizard would be able to be a healer, unless maybe they were a necromancer? :)

Then again, how many RL diseases that assaulted caravans and ships in days gone by could have been thwarted by a simple prestidigitation spell? Add in detect poison to figure out which berries and plants are poisonous, and even a wizard like Corinna could do a lot to keep people fed and healthy.


I think it's in there to cover the situation where someone says, "Well, I've got healing spells, so how come I can't be a healer?" So the rules allow for it by creating the spellcaster job that lets you perform other jobs. Of course, it gets abstracted like everything else and suddenly every spellcaster can be a healer.

It does create some bizarre possibilities, that's true. I suppose a better way might have been to make the prerequisites for the individual jobs acknowledge certain spells. Healer, for example, could require 1 rank in Healing OR ability to cast cure spells. The problem with this approach, however, would be that for some jobs it would be difficult to quantify exactly what spells qualify and what don't.

So either approach has its problems, really.


Ironically, I find the caravan roles both overly codified and overly broad. Overly codified because it ought to be a simple matter for PCs to decide amongst themselves who is most suited to be a scout or a guard or a guide, without all the "1 rank in this" or "able to cast that." Overly broad, because they lump all spellcasters together as if there's not a huge difference between the academic wizard and the energy-channeling cleric, not to mention the neutral or evil cleric who channels negative energy, the crowd-pleasing bard, the blaster sorcerer, the sword-fighting magus, and the oracle of any of the disparate mysteries. I might not have minded so much had they added a proviso about a spellcaster being able to take on any of the following roles based on his or her spell list and leaving it to the group and DM to adjudicate, but just tossing them all in a bin together as if they all have basically the same abilities bugs me. I mean, for the fortune teller role, they at least specified that one has to be able to cast divination spells instead of just any spell. As Navior says, they could have done the same for the other roles as they did for fortune-teller -- 1 rank in whatever or the ability to cast certain spells -- instead of making a separate "spellcaster" role which is completely unnecessary.

Grand Lodge

Well I appreciate that the rules allow Malan to compete with Shalelu in the long term in her area of expertise.


Of course, it also allows Ameiko and Koya to do the same, to say nothing of Corinna and Gilfroy. That quartet of sneaky survivalists doesn't seem just the slightest bit ridiculous to you? ;)

Grand Lodge

Koya, no. The rest yes. However, since I play a fantasy game, I don't delve to deep into it. Willful ignorance is bliss.


Koya doesn't have spells? Didn't realize she was a charlatan.


F/R/W: +2/+1/+2 (+2 vs illusions); AC 12/12/11; CMD: 7; Max HP 10; Current HP 10; Init: +1; Perception: +6; Sense Motive: +5;
Joana wrote:
Koya doesn't have spells? Didn't realize she was a charlatan.

Pretty sure he means that the idea of Koya knowing how to act like a scout is more reasonable that Corinna knowing how.

Just another person who's better at something than Corinna.


That's hardly fair - Koya has had 3 times more time to learn all these different skills at which she can be better than Corinna.


I'm a bit curious what Malan has in mind. There are no aural effects to prestidigitation.

Grand Lodge

Actually that's for Corinna to figure out remember. But as an idea, prestidigitation could make the smoke from the fire into images of the scenes from the story being told. It can even be used to change the color of the smoke so that if the tale was little red riding hood, the title character can be easily noted.


Too much creative thinking for Corinna. She had her schooling in Korvosa, remember, so she's much more by the book. Plus, she'd be miserably unhappy to have everyone looking at her and her nose.

Sounds like something that would be right up Gilfroy's alley, however, and he gets a bonus to Perform checks. She has enough opportunities to fail miserably at unmodified d20 rolls with her daily attempts to impress Sandru and her complete inability to Aid Another at Diplomacy; there's no way I'm going to volunteer to roll more of them. :P


Dax, be sure and subtract your 10 gold for materials to write the spell. Magic isn't free, you know. ;)

Grand Lodge

Done. Thanks for the reminder.


F/R/W: +2/+1/+2 (+2 vs illusions); AC 12/12/11; CMD: 7; Max HP 10; Current HP 10; Init: +1; Perception: +6; Sense Motive: +5;

BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!

Gilfroy and I are both having a good laugh over that one. At least,he would if had the first clue what you're talking about.

Maybe it would help Corinna with Sandru if Gilfroy just pranked her to have her dress fly up with a prestidigitation?


In case anybody enjoys that sort of thing, I've posted my take on a monk remake on tenletter. :)


Melon Sash wrote:
This is kinda how I think knowledge (local) can be justified. It always irks me to no end that - say - somebody that spend their whole life in Absalom goes to some random town half a continent away and with their +15 in knowledge (local) greets any important NPC on a first name basis.

Seriously? Knowledge (local) irks you no end, but Corinna being a qualified healer or scout makes perfect sense? ;)


Yea. Corinna is bright enough to figure things out as she goes along. High Int can go a long way. But knowledge (local) letting you know all the local gossip across the continents (and some other planes)... that s%%# is wack!

I mean, do you really want to have the healer be the one with one rank in Heal (something they learned over the weekend in first-aid class) and the predominant medical instruction they give is: "don't move the body! you're likely to do more harm than good. we'll wait for the professionals."

Assume you play Skull-n-Shackles (or a game with LoreKeeper as GM) then you can get injuries that no amount of cure light wounds or channels will heal, so much for having a cleric as a healer :P


Applied healing is a Wisdom-based skill that has nothing to do with high or low Int. Corinna would be more likely to panic or faint at the sight of blood; it's Wisdom that helps a person keep a level head in a crisis. (Witness a Will save to resist fear or confusion effects.) In addition, the description of a Healer in the caravan rules specifically references providing long-term care, complete with a page reference to the Wisdom-based Heal skill in the CRB. The Peg Leg & Eye Patch rules in Skull & Shackles don't allow for the application of Int to healing, either; they just replace death by massive damage (which can't be healed by either skill or spell) with scars and missing body parts (which can't be healed by skill but can by Regeneration -- which is available to Wis-based casters but not Int- or Cha-based casters).

Honestly, all it comes down to is that you can rationalize one but not the other, whereas I'm the other way around. ;)


Ya, Heal and Wisdom go together - I'm approaching this from a real-life scenario, where somebody with high Int can be hoped to handle a medical emergency more appropriately than somebody with Int as a dump stat (all other things being equal). No guarantees, but if I were a betting man...

Creative use of mage armor as an impromptu splint, unseen servant to keep fresh towels at hand, ray of frost (applied through thick layer of bandages) to help stop bleeding, and so forth. In game terms I'd be willing to count such use as a circumstance bonus to a Heal check (which can be made untrained). A single spell-use then would add +2, better than +1 from ranks for a class that doesn't have Heal as a class skill.

...granted Corinna might not be suitable for these things, but talking about wizards in general... I think they could make a fair enough Healer if no professional was around. You don't really make a good wizard (particularly not one that summons creatures from other planes of existence) by being squeamish. ;)

...

On the other hand; I imagine I could watch TV all day long, all the gossip and glamor shows - and then have sufficient knowledge (local) to recognize Arnold Schwarzenegger and Katie Perry. Still... it irks me. More than the healer thing.

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