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A few random thoughts...
Hit Points:
Since both the eidolon and the Synthesist use the eidolon's Con bonus when fused, and the Synthesist gains the eidolon's Hit Points as (sort of) temporary Hit Points, Con boosts to the eidolon allow a fused Synthesist to 'double dip'. That is to say, a boost of +2 Con to the eidolon increases the Synthesist's Hit Points by 1 per Hit Die (since he uses the eidolon's Con bonus whilst fused), and also increases the eidolon's Hit Points by 1 per Hit Die (which the Synthesist then gains as extra temporary Hit Points).
Put another way, a level 1 Synthesist, whilst fused, is (for Hit Point purposes) a 2 Hit Die creature, whilst every other PC is a 1 Hit Die creature.
For example, a level 4 Synthesist who casts bear's endurance on his eidolon gains 8 Hit Points (for his own 4 Hit Dice, since he uses the eidolon's Con score), as well as an extra 6 'temporary'(-ish) Hit Points (for the eidolon's 3 Hit Dice). So he's functionally gaining 14 Hit Points where any other level 4 character gains only 8. Not only that, but the 6 extra Hit Points from the eidolon won't kill him when the spell wears off and they vanish (unlike the 'real' Hit Points gained from a Con boost), so that's even better.
'Monster' Feats:
Can PCs take them? See 'Natural Weapon' under 'New Combat Styles' on page 124 of the APG.
Armour:
I'd fall into the camp that thinks that the Synthesist can wear armour, but that when fused he uses the eidolon's armour bonus to AC instead of his own, even if that bonus is zero (which it won't be, since he can cast Mage Armour and isn't, we assume, an idiot... ;) ). That prevents any weird 'stripping out of armour to fuse, carrying it around all day, and donning it to go to bed' routines, but helps prevent the archetype's already insanely high potential AC getting shoved any higher...
The 'eidolon suit':
Everyone (including me) seems to think, at first glance, that the Synthesist is wearing the eidolon like power armour. I guess it really seems to be suggested in the fluff text. But James Jacobs' responses seem to indicate that may not be the way to look at the archetype at all - that, instead of a suit of eidolon power armour, it's more a case of the Synthesist is infused with the powers and abilities of the eidolon, and that the 'image of the eidolon' bit is just fluff akin to the normal 'glowing rune on your noggin' the vanilla Summoner suffers from.
That may make it easier to comprehend some of the class features (or not, YMMV)... still doesn't prevent it being min-max catnip though... ;)
IMHO, natch.
Possession: Manifesting the abilities of an extra dimensional being within oneself. This may or may not include loss of control to that being. Sounds like one possible interpretation of synthesist to me.Haven't seen it but it sounds about right or at least one reasonable interpretation. Other fiction that seems to resemble reasonable inspirations for this class or characters of this class are Neon Genesis Evangelion (Shinji's relation with his Eva only) Gasaraki, The Exorcist, Doctor Jekyll and Mr. Hyde.Jekyll and Hyde is the mutation Alchemist. As is every other example here probably because so is the Justice/Anders example. The Eidolon does not POSSESS the Summoner. It encapsulates it, from what I understand. Possession is the realm of the Chymist. The Synthesist is more like Tildie Soames or that other chick from Marvel who can manifest powers that form body coverings of force. I forget her name, she was mentioned in one of these threads about the Synthesist.
And is patently wrong. At almost every point.
Fused Eidolon: A synthesist summons the essence of a powerful outsider to meld with his own being. Instead of appearing as a separate creature next to the summoner, the eidolon appears around the synthesist, so that the synthesist seems to be inside a translucent image of his eidolon. The synthesist directs all of the eidolon's actions while fused, perceives through its senses, and speaks through its voice, as the two are now one creature.
If anything, the Summoner possesses the Eidolon.
Possession where the character retains control and the ability to change and sometimes gives in to gain it's abilities, rather like She-Hulk is a form of possession (ignore the lack of extra dimensional for the sake of this arguement). The Hulk's lack of control is a curse or disease and is also a form of possession.
Even when under control of the hulk change, the person's personality still changes.
For example, a level 4 Synthesist who casts bear's endurance on his eidolon gains 8 Hit Points (for his own 4 Hit Dice, since he uses the eidolon's Con score), as well as an extra 6 'temporary'(-ish) Hit Points (for the eidolon's 3 Hit Dice). So he's functionally gaining 14 Hit Points where any other level 4 character gains only 8. Not only that, but the 6 extra Hit Points from the eidolon won't kill him when the spell wears off and they vanish (unlike the 'real' Hit Points gained from a Con boost), so that's even better.
Actually, I think you just brought up something a Synthesist should avoid doing, and you didn't even realize it. Bear's Endurance is actually a bad spell for a synthesist who actually needs to use those extra HP, unless he heals the eidolon right after battle.
When he uses bear's endurance, you're correct that he gets +2 HP per HD and his eidolon (his temporary HP) gets +2 HP per HD. Let's say he actually needed those HP, and after a battle is over he's sitting at 1 HP on his eidolon. Eventually, the bear's endurance wears off. This brings the eidolon's HP down to zero, and thus the synthesist's temporary HP down to zero. The eidolon gets unsummoned.
Fused link won't even help here; it lets you sacrifice HP to prevent DAMAGE to the temporary HP, but loss of CON is not damage so that loss of temp HP cannot be prevented.
Also beware taking any con damage while the eidolon is sitting at or near 1 HP, as this could bring the eidolon's HP below zero and thus unsummon him without you being able to do anything about it.
'Monster' Feats:
Can PCs take them? See 'Natural Weapon' under 'New Combat Styles' on page 124 of the APG.
It depends on your GM. Chances are, you had natural weapons when you leveled up (most combats occur while you're fused), so you'd certainly qualify for those feats if that's when you level up. Some GMs might make it so that you level up the next time you rest or something, though, in which case you may or may not be allowed to take the feats depending on whether it's ruled that you must meet the natural weapon prereqs when you take the feat or simply be able to easily meet them during any given day.
Note that the ranger does not need to meet prereqs for his combat style feats, so that doesn't tell us anything.
Armour:I'd fall into the camp that thinks that the Synthesist can wear armour, but that when fused he uses the eidolon's armour bonus to AC instead of his own, even if that bonus is zero (which it won't be, since he can cast Mage Armour and isn't, we assume, an idiot... ;) ). That prevents any weird 'stripping out of armour to fuse, carrying it around all day, and donning it to go to bed' routines, but helps prevent the archetype's already insanely high potential AC getting shoved any higher...
For balance reasons, I would certainly agree with you on this one. Summoner's (like the synthesist while not fused) are allowed to wear armor for balance purposes. Eidolons (like the synthesist while fused) are not allowed to, also for balance purposes. Deactivating the armor while the eidolon is active would satisfy both balance issues.
I would go further than saying just the armor bonus doesn't apply; I'd say the armor doesn't function at all. No wearing Rhino Hide for your pouncing synthesist. Normal eidolons can't do it, so I don't think the synthesist should be able to either.
RAW seems to either suggest that you can wear armor just fine OR that you simply can't wear armor while fused. I'm in the latter camp on how I see the rules.
What would happen if someone pinned down an ordinary eidolon and forcibly put armor on its body? Clearly this is a rule violation (eidolon's can't wear armor of any sort) - to remedy it, either the armor gets flung off, the eidolon gets unsummoned, or most simply, the eidolon simply isn't considered to be "wearing" the armor even though it's on his body, and thus gets no mechanical benefits from it. Whatever the case, the answer to this question is what should happen when a synthesist tries fusing while wearing armor.
Another question, what saves do you use when fused with your Eidolon? I feel like the description implies you use the Summoner class saving throws.
Also what happens if you fail a saving throw against poison or disease? Are you only effected when in Eidolon form?
You use Summoner saving throws. The Eidolon does not provide its saves to the synthesist.
Also what happens if you fail a saving throw against poison or disease? Are you only effected when in Eidolon form?
I would think you'd be effected even when the eidolon unsummons. However, if the disease or poison does damage to physical attributes, then it is the eidolon's physical attributes that get damaged while the eidolon is summoned.
so how would dual, or more, wielding two handed weapons work out if one were to give himself/herself more arms?
You could attack once with all your weapons, and attack iteratively with your primary weapon. Without multiweapon fighting, you'd simply be attacking at -4 with the primary weapon and -8 with the rest of them (if all the offhands are light weapons). With multiweapon fighting, the penalties are reduced to -2 on all attacks if they're all light. There's a bit of debate over whether the synthesist can qualify for the multiweapon fighting feat without using Aspect to gain extra arms while unfused (i.e. before their level 11 feat).
This is mainly a bump or necro because I've seen a few more synthesist threads popping up and I think centralization is a good idea.
New question- if you get hit with a CON drain or damage power while fused do you lose all the HP from the eidolon temporary HP pool, per normal temporary HP rules, or does some of it come from the summoners pool? Example: A level 5 synthesist fused with his 4 HD eidolon suffers 4 points of CON damage. Does he lose 18 HP from the eidolon's temporary HP pool, or does he lose 8 HP from the temporary pool and 10 HP from the base summoner's HP?
The level 5 synthesist would lose only 8HP from its temporary HP pool (since that is based on the eidolon's HD and CON) and 10HP from his ordinary HP (since that's based on his own HD and CON).
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Call me crazy, but on my first read of the Synthesist archetype, my immediate thought was "Guyver Suit," so that's kinda how I've been looking at the whole situation; sure, you can wear your armor before fusing, but when you are enveloped by the eidolon, it's physical attributes supersede your own, including armor bonus and whotnot. Pretty cut-and-dry, in my sight.
The level 5 synthesist would lose only 8HP from its temporary HP pool (since that is based on the eidolon's HD and CON) and 10HP from his ordinary HP (since that's based on his own HD and CON).Follow up: do you fall unconscious if you have temporary HP but no normal HP?
That's more than just a synthesist question.
RAW, you would fall unconscious. A non-synthesist example is a level 3 wizard who has 2 HP before casting False Life, gaining 8 temporary HP. He then takes 2 points of CON damage, lowering his current HP to -1, but he still has 8 temporary HP on top of that. Temp HP rules don't do anything to prevent the character from dying at this point, though.
A question on healing:
How does it work with a synthesist / oracle(bone) multiclass where I have the resist life revelation but not the Undead Appearance evolution?
You'd get the effect from resist life. It doesn't matter that you don't have another ability that also provides the same effect, what's important is that you have one ability that does provide that effect.
The level 5 synthesist would lose only 8HP from its temporary HP pool (since that is based on the eidolon's HD and CON) and 10HP from his ordinary HP (since that's based on his own HD and CON).Follow up: do you fall unconscious if you have temporary HP but no normal HP?That's more than just a synthesist question.
RAW, you would fall unconscious. A non-synthesist example is a level 3 wizard who has 2 HP before casting False Life, gaining 8 temporary HP. He then takes 2 points of CON damage, lowering his current HP to -1, but he still has 8 temporary HP on top of that. Temp HP rules don't do anything to prevent the character from dying at this point, though.
Well, you fall unconscious, but Temp prevent you from having to lose damage from dying (they take the damage first after all).
Well, you fall unconscious, but Temp prevent you from having to lose damage from dying (they take the damage first after all).The level 5 synthesist would lose only 8HP from its temporary HP pool (since that is based on the eidolon's HD and CON) and 10HP from his ordinary HP (since that's based on his own HD and CON).Follow up: do you fall unconscious if you have temporary HP but no normal HP?That's more than just a synthesist question.
RAW, you would fall unconscious. A non-synthesist example is a level 3 wizard who has 2 HP before casting False Life, gaining 8 temporary HP. He then takes 2 points of CON damage, lowering his current HP to -1, but he still has 8 temporary HP on top of that. Temp HP rules don't do anything to prevent the character from dying at this point, though.
But you don't take damage from bleeding out, you lose HP. Temp HP absorb damage, not loss of HP.
Here comes a top-down. For some of this explanation, it is useful to regard the eidolon as a separate entity, fully fleshed out, on it's way to being fused with the Summoner
From um pg 80:
"While fused with his eidolon, the synthesist uses the eidolon’s physical ability scores (Strength, Dexterity, and Constitution), but retains his own mental ability scores (Intelligence, Wisdom, and Charisma). The synthesist gains the eidolon’s hit points as temporary hit points."
Calculate the eidolon's individual hit points (con modifier times it's own hit die plus racial hit die). These are simple, run of the mill, temporary hit points.
um pg 80:
The synthesist uses the eidolon’s base attack bonus
Until errata comes out, you're stuck with whatever the eidolons BAB is while you have this up RAW.
um pg 80
"The synthesist uses the eidolon’s base attack bonus, and gains the eidolon’s armor and natural armor bonuses"
Synthesist now gets this: (apg pg 55)
"Armor Bonus: The number noted here is the eidolon’s
base total armor bonus. This bonus may be split between an
armor bonus and a natural armor bonus, as decided by the
summoner. This number is modified by the eidolon’s base
form and some options available through its evolution pool.
An eidolon cannot wear armor of any kind, as the armor
interferes with the summoner’s connection to the eidolon."
If he's fused, armor falls off. Period. GM it how you want, RAW it falls off if it counts as armor.
um pg 80:
The synthesist uses the eidolon’s base attack bonus, and gains the eidolon’s armor and natural armor bonuses and modifiers to ability scores.
This one's easy, anything that adds to the eidolons ability scores, like those evolutions to mental stats, are added to the summoners. You use whatever your eidolon's physical scores are with all of it's bonuses, just to keep people from being facetious asking about double benefits from bonuses to physical stats.
um pg 80:
"The synthesist is still limited to the eidolon’s maximum number of natural attacks."
from apg 55:
"Max. Attacks: This indicates the maximum number of
natural attacks that the eidolon is allowed to possess at the
given level. If the eidolon is at its maximum, it cannot take
evolutions that grant additional natural attacks. This does
not include attacks made with weapons."
apg pg 60:
"Claws (Ex): An eidolon has a pair of vicious claws at the
end of its limbs, giving it two claw attacks. These attacks
are primary attacks. The claws deal 1d4 points of damage
(1d6 if Large, 1d8 if Huge). The eidolon must have the
limbs evolution to take this evolution. This evolution can
only be applied to the limbs (legs) evolution once This
evolution can be selected more than once, but the eidolon
must possess an equal number of the limbs evolution."
So far, nothing about REPLACING natural attacks. There's no reason RAW and RAI don't coincide for this. Your arms keep working, but there's no reason to make them claws over a 'limbs' evolution (RAW you can if you want, whatever, it's silly). Your legs still 'work' but since they're not an evolution, they don't effect your land speed, any leg evolutions on the other hand, do as they're supposed to. You have two fully functional working as intended arms, even if your eidolon has none, and need to have the evolution for limbs for every evolution for natural attacks either way. You gain one advantage here: If you're a quadruped, you can take 1 extra 'claws' without an 'arms' evolution RAW because you have two 'limbs-legs' and only one can have 'claws', but both count towards your 'limbs' prerequisite.
um pg 80:
"The eidolon must be at least the same size as the synthesist."
um pg 80:
"The synthesist also gains access to the eidolon’s special abilities and the eidolon’s evolutions."
Frankly there's no way to break this rule. If you are small, your eidolon's base size before evolutions, for which you benefit, will at LEAST be small. If any evolutions reduce your ediolon's size, guess what, they do so to you do, so...yeah. Characters larger than medium will have issues trying to be a Synthesist.
um pg 80:
"While fused, the synthesist counts as both his original
type and as an outsider for any effect related to type,
whichever is worse for the synthesist. Spells such as
banishment or dismissal work normally on the eidolon, but
the synthesist is unaffected. Neither the synthesist nor his
eidolon can be targeted separately, as they are fused into one
creature."
Do NOT confuse this with anything other than exactly what it is, original type+outsider, if one is worse than the other, pick worse. Admittedly, 'worse' is a very poor choice of words. RAW it only effects spells/zones/auras ect. with multiple outcomes based on creature type.
If something can target you OR your outsider, you are ONE BEING, it can target you. If the effect simply targets one type and has a single effect regardless of type, that's all that happens. If you cast rejuvinate eidolon, it heals YOUR hit points, not your temporary hit points. Frankly there is no tactical confusion here either, the only hit point important to the summoner is his final 1 before 0, since temporary hit points are always lost before regular ones. Considering you do NOT inherit your eidolon's saving throws, you have a greater defense against losing your temporary hit point buffer anyways.
um pg 80:
"While fused with his eidolon, the synthesist can use all of his own abilities and gear."
Too bad your armor FELL OFF, otherwise you could use it to. Oh wait, you have ridiculous survivability and utility, who cares?
um pg 80:
"In all other cases, this ability functions as the summoner’s normal eidolon ability"
apg pg 55-56:
"Eidolon: A summoner begins play with the ability to summon to
his side a powerful outsider called an eidolon. The eidolon forms a link
with the summoner, who, forever after, summons an aspect of the same creature. An eidolon has the same alignment as the summoner that calls it and can speak all of his languages. Eidolons are treated as summoned creatures, except that they are not sent back to their home plane until reduced to a number of negative hit points equal to or greater than their Constitution score. In addition, due to its tie to its summoner, an eidolon can touch and attack creatures warded by protection from evil and similar effects that prevent contact with summoned creatures. A summoner can summon his eidolon in a ritual that takes 1 minute to perform. When summoned in this way, the eidolon hit points are unchanged from the last time it was summoned. The only exception to this is if the eidolon was slain, in which case it returns with half its normal hit points. The eidolon does not heal naturally. The eidolon remains until dismissed by the summoner (a standard action). If the eidolon is sent back to its home plane due to death, it cannot be summoned again until the following day. The eidolon cannot be sent back to its home plane by means of dispel magic, but spells such as dismissal and banishment work normally. If the summoner is unconscious, asleep, or killed, his eidolon is immediately banished. The eidolon takes a form shaped by the summoner’s desires. The eidolon’s Hit Dice, saving throws, skills, feats, and abilities are tied to the summoner’s class level and increase as the summoner gains levels. In addition, each eidolon receives a pool of evolution points, based on the summoner’s class level, that can be used to give the eidolon different abilities and powers. Whenever the summoner gains a level, he must decide how these points are spent, and they are set until he gains another level of summoner. The eidolon’s physical appearance is up to the summoner, but it always appears as some sort of fantastical creature. This control is not fine enough to make the eidolon appear like a specific creature. The eidolon also bears a glowing rune that is identical to a rune that appears on the summoner’s forehead as long as the eidolon is summoned. While this rune can be hidden through mundane means, it cannot be concealed through magic that changes appearance, such as alter self or polymorph (although invisibility does conceal it as long as the spell lasts).
Still takes 1 min to perform.
Your eidolon never actually loses hit points, nor are its hit points ever kept, just your temporary hit points. Every time you summon it, you get its max hit points as temporary hit points. Since banishment is not slain, and your own being slain will banish him, your eidolon will never come back with only half hit points.
Still banished when you are unconscious, asleep, or killed.
Not everything you quoted is cut and dry. You note that eidolons can't use armor but in the synthesist section it specifically notes that a fused eidolon can use all the synthesist's gear. Last I checked armor is gear and all you need to do is allocate all of the eidolon's armor to natural armor so you have no stacking issue. I'll argue specific trump general, and this line is specific to synthesist so it trumps the general rules of eidolon not being able to use armor.
The 'Eidolon's bonus to armor and natural armor' are a subset of rules referenced in the same way as a 'Monk AC Bonus'. The benefit of the armor and the rules for using it, including deliberating between regular and natural armor, specifically state armor is no longer a slot for the character in question. These rules are not general. It falls off. Having completely fallen off, it is no longer considered gear worn by the summoner to begin with. It's on the ground and does not apply.
Also the BAB thing is such a misinterpretation so stop spreading it. It is worded the exact same way as flurry of blows. Since there is a precedent the only way to interpret that is that the eidolon's BAB replaces your synthesist levels BAB but all other class BAB still adds to it if you multiclass.
Flurry of blows is an attack mode with it's own set of special rules, and NOT worded the 'exact same way'. The only precedent it set was that it needed errata to function as it does now without question. The RAI is murky to be sure. I think because it doesn't say 'becomes' or 'equals', merely 'uses', that it would be safe to use it as simply the summoner's contribution to the total BAB.
Flurry of blows is an attack mode with it's own set of special rules, and NOT worded the 'exact same way'. The only precedent it set was that it needed errata to function as it does now without question. The RAI is murky to be sure. I think because it doesn't say 'becomes' or 'equals', merely 'uses', that it would be safe to use it as simply the summoner's contribution to the total BAB.
That interpretation is about as crazy as halfling outriders having no BAB progression at all. That simply can't be the RAW or RAI of it.
It falls off. Having completely fallen off, it is no longer considered gear worn by the summoner to begin with. It's on the ground and does not apply.
Your multiple assertions that the synthesist's armor "falls off" and is "on the ground" are completely unsupported by any rule in any book that I've seen. Do you have a reference for all this? Looking up the monk AC rules you reference, I don't see anything about anyone losing an armor slot. I completely understand and sympathize the parts of your argument that maintain that the eidolon's armor bonus supersedes any armor bonus the base, un-fused synthesist may have before joining his eidolon, but you're only hurting your own argument with the unsupported statement that the armor magically disconnects from the summoner's body and clatters to the ground the minute he summons his eidolon.
That's being said, I don't think there's a problem with summoners losing the benefits of armor while fused with the eidolon -and that's how my group has been playing it, and I believe that's how any errata will play out. But the claim that it falls off, rather than simply being superseded by the enveloping presence of the eidolon, is going off in a direction that is neither RAW or RAI, and reading a lot more into it than is there.
It falls off. Having completely fallen off, it is no longer considered gear worn by the summoner to begin with. It's on the ground and does not apply.Your multiple assertions that the synthesist's armor "falls off" and is "on the ground" are completely unsupported by any rule in any book that I've seen. Do you have a reference for all this? Looking up the monk AC rules you reference, I don't see anything about anyone losing an armor slot. I completely understand and sympathize the parts of your argument that maintain that the eidolon's armor bonus supersedes any armor bonus the base, un-fused synthesist may have before joining his eidolon, but you're only hurting your own argument with the unsupported statement that the armor magically disconnects from the summoner's body and clatters to the ground the minute he summons his eidolon.
That's being said, I don't think there's a problem with summoners losing the benefits of armor while fused with the eidolon -and that's how my group has been playing it, and I believe that's how any errata will play out. But the claim that it falls off, rather than simply being superseded by the enveloping presence of the eidolon, is going off in a direction that is neither RAW or RAI, and reading a lot more into it than is there.
If I were to apply logic, fluff, and RAI into some guess work, I'd go with "Your attempt to call your eidolon fails as the armor you wear disrupts the connection between the two of you during fusion."
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If I were to apply logic, fluff, and RAI into some guess work, I'd go with "Your attempt to call your eidolon fails as the armor you wear disrupts the connection between the two of you during fusion."
This would make a synthesist rather annoying to play. So to summon a fused eidolon the synthesist will now need to strip. I mean the synthesist needs a few tweaks but making changes or interpretations to make it a pain in the arse to play is not a good way to balance the archetype.
Not allowing the worn armor to stack with the fused eidolon is understandable. But forcing a synthesist to remove his armor to use a class ability is just bad ruling.
Annoying or not, that's how it runs at my table. It takes a while to summon the Eidolon (sans spell); I let the Summoner use that time to remove any armor as part of the process.
If I were to apply logic, fluff, and RAI into some guess work, I'd go with "Your attempt to call your eidolon fails as the armor you wear disrupts the connection between the two of you during fusion."Annoying or not, that's how it runs at my table. It takes a while to summon the Eidolon (sans spell); I let the Summoner use that time to remove any armor as part of the process.This would make a synthesist rather annoying to play. So to summon a fused eidolon the synthesist will now need to strip. I mean the synthesist needs a few tweaks but making changes or interpretations to make it a pain in the arse to play is not a good way to balance the archetype.
Not allowing the worn armor to stack with the fused eidolon is understandable. But forcing a synthesist to remove his armor to use a class ability is just bad ruling.
Removing the armor before taking on the Eidolon is not the problem. The problem is when the Eidolon gets dismissed in the middle of combat and the Summoner has no armor.
It was a stupid balancing step to say they can't wear armor, a stupid mistake to forget about that when making the synthesist, and even stupider that this hasn't been weighed in on by the devs.
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Oh, there's all sorts of problems for the Synthesist when her Eidolon gets dispelled in combat. (You had a Constitution of 16, and you were using your hit points to help keep the Eidolon here via Life Link? Well now you have your Constitution of 10. Lose 3 hp per level, please.)
I'd recommend mage armor.
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It was a stupid balancing step to say they can't wear armor, a stupid mistake to forget about that when making the synthesist, and even stupider that this hasn't been weighed in on by the devs.
You never miss a chance to call designers stupid, do you Cartigan? And you managed to get 3 with one blow this time! Congratulations! I somehow doubt this is a new record for you.
How your sour attitude and offensive tongue has been tolerated on these boards for so many years is beyond comprehension.
Oh, there's all sorts of problems for the Synthesist when her Eidolon gets dispelled in combat. (You had a Constitution of 16, and you were using your hit points to help keep the Eidolon here via Life Link? Well now you have your Constitution of 10. Lose 3 hp per level, please.)
I'd recommend mage armor.
Of course, he should waste a spell for something he could just wear normally without spell failure chance! Brilliant!
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just because he says it in a nasty way does not mean he is wrong. It just makes us want to say he is wrong. Like him, I am equally confused by developer silence on the topic of the synthesist. It has been long enough and discussed enough for them to weigh in.
My posts did not address the validity of Cartigan's views or argument -only the unnecessarily insulting way in which they were expressed. The rule is confusing, and it does need to be clarified. But that doesn't make anyone stupid.
It was a stupid balancing step to say they can't wear armor, a stupid mistake to forget about that when making the synthesist, and even stupider that this hasn't been weighed in on by the devs.You never miss a chance to call designers stupid, do you Cartigan? And you managed to get 3 with one blow this time! Congratulations! I somehow doubt this is a new record for you.
How your sour attitude and offensive tongue has been tolerated on these boards for so many years is beyond comprehension.
1) The attempts to balance the Eidolon by making odd rules exceptions or unique rules for them was ineffective and absurd.
2) That they completely forgot about, or didn't bother to address consistencies in, their own rules exceptions when making archetypes that would interact with them is ridiculous.3) That they have no weighed in on this issue AT ALL is inexcusable.
1) The attempts to balance the Eidolon by making odd rules exceptions or unique rules for them was ineffective and absurd.
2) That they completely forgot about, or didn't bother to address consistencies in, their own rules exceptions when making archetypes that would interact with them is ridiculous.
3) That they have no weighed in on this issue AT ALL is inexcusable.
Exceptional points, Cartigan, and while strongly worded, non-offensive to anyone's intelligence. That's all I'm asking, man, and I appreciate the consideration. Really.
For the record, I've been playing a by-the-book synthesist for 4 levels now, and I can't wait for clarification either -especially on the temporary hit point situation. I think my group interpreted RAI well enough on the other points (no, my summoner's light armor does not count when I'm fused, but it doesn't just fall off, either), but the healing issue is sticky.
Hey now, don't get angry at the boards resident troll, we need him to scare the real trolls away.
And you quite obviously cant wear armor when fused, Sure it says you can use all of your gear, you just aren't allowed to have this particular piece of gear.
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Hey now, don't get angry at the boards resident troll, we need him to scare the real trolls away.
And you quite obviously cant wear armor when fused, Sure it says you can use all of your gear, you just aren't allowed to have this particular piece of gear.
Only the rules also say the summoner can have that gear, hence the problem. Most people, though not the overwhelming majority seem to agree that the Eidolon rule takes precedence.
Good game story: I have Skill Focus: Bluff and a trait to make it a class skill in a ROTRL campaign. Early on, there is scene w/widow and orphaned child who has just lost his father. Playing the personalities of my character slightly different with and without Eidolon. Have befriended them and using bluff to ease the pain. In Eidolon form, I've convinced the son that his dad died to help him grow independent and strong and the wife that she it's good thing he died because she could do so much better.
Finally, calling stuff patently absurd and stupid is a tip off the person should not be listened to.
Here's a new question. Say I want to benefit from a manual that adds to a physical stat while fused. Do I have to finish it while fused or would it simply apply a +# to that stat after my new physical stat is aquired?
For what its worth here's a quote from James Jacobs about healing & Eidolons as it applies to the Synthesist
You don't heal the eidolon at all if it only gives you temp HP. It might help to stop thinking of the synthesist as a "summoner with an eidolon" but a "summoner IS the eidolon" sort of way. AKA: To heal your "eidolon" you just heal yourself.you can find it here: http://paizo.com/paizo/messageboards/community/offTopic/askJamesJacobsAllYo urQuestionsHere&page=175&source=search#8720Also, keep in mind that I don't think these should be taken as "official" answers. More like JJ suggesting how he'd rule it in his own games.
I agree with him, but spells made to only heal the Eidolon should work.
Having more than two hand will not qualify you for multiattack though since the Synthesist cannot take the feat himself...
I believe there is a feat that allows the eidolon to remain even if the summoner are sleeping. This means the eidolon can remain indefinatly and qualify for feats itself, including multi-attack.
9) Does the synthetisist retains his own natural attacks while fused?
9a) How does this work with the maximum on natural attacks?
9b) How does it work with natural attacks gained through aspect?
It is my understanding that the synthesist would retain all their abilities. So any natural abilities or abilities gained by aspect should work, but if they both have the same natural attacks, take the better, however you could buy an improvement on the synthesist's natural attack that only takes effect while fused.
Two interesting situations.
1. You take claws as an aspect. You fuse, have claws from the aspect, and use the eidolon to improve the damage. This could also be done with aspect of the beast feat.
2. You and your eidolon could take fast healing, eventually doubling your maximum healing capability by spiting the damage between you and your eidolon equally.XD
Having more than two hand will not qualify you for multiattack though since the Synthesist cannot take the feat himself...I believe there is a feat that allows the eidolon to remain even if the summoner are sleeping. This means the eidolon can remain indefinatly and qualify for feats itself, including multi-attack.
It only lasts a number of rounds after he would normally be banished :(
2. You and your eidolon could take fast healing, eventually doubling your maximum healing capability by spiting the damage between you and your eidolon equally.XD
Thats kindof murky territory...the wording of the rules involved might agree though. Since you choose evolutions on separate occasions than when you fuse, and the wording only prevents you from selecting key evolutions so many times, it doesn't prevent you from benefiting from them...this could imply twice the possible fast healing, or natural armor bonuses ect...
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Can you take feats that you only qualify for in eidolon mode? For instance, I would like to take Power Attack, but have a low strength score (meaning it would only come into play when I'm in fused form).
Personal Opinion: I think you should be able to, especially since your eidolon doesn't get feats anymore itself, and due to the nature of merged forms. This means that you are getting feats that can only be used during certain times, but useless every other time.
Aspect and greater aspect in the later levels can help out a lot in the area of qualifying for feats, but frankly the whole idea of losing your eidolon when you're asleep hurts the synthesist even more than your standard summoner in this manner more than any other.
Unless you can find a way to stay awake permanently it's better to qualify for feats using the summoner's own stats. Because if you take off your belt of strength that allowed you to qualify for Power Attack. Wouldn't taking off that belt require you to wear it for 24 hours before you can use PA again?So everytime your eidolon goes away wouldn't you have a new 24 hour waiting period before feats can be reactivated?
Well, there isn't a penalty for staying awake...
There is precedent for having daily access to an ability meeting a prerequisite. See Sorcerer's taking Fly ranks after 5th level, for example.
I would have no trouble with a synthesist qualifying for feats based on his merged forms, provided the player affirmed to me that they understood that when not merged, that they lose the feat if they were not able to meet the pre-requisites.
As to needing restorations and 24 hours to 'requalify' for the feat in this case, the rules don't bear that up. If you are a barbarian with 16 str, and you qualify for power attack, and something drains 6 points of str, you lose your power attack. However, if you rage, you go back up to 14, and you can now power attack. Alternately, a friendly mage could cast Bull's Strength on you and get the feat usage back as well, for the duration of the rage or spell. So as soon as he re-merges, he regains access to the feat.