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Ammunition in quantities fewer than Fifty


Pathfinder Society® General Discussion

Shadow Lodge **

I've generally assumed that ammunition was only sold in the quantities it was crafted in (lots of 50) but I've seen people in PFS buy 5 at a time.

Does your group allow buying ammo in smaller quantities?

Taldor *** Venture-Lieutenant, North Carolina—Asheville aka zylphryx

0gre wrote:

I've generally assumed that ammunition was only sold in the quantities it was crafted in (lots of 50) but I've seen people in PFS buy 5 at a time.

Does your group allow buying ammo in smaller quantities?

Yes. It allows lower level parties to be able to get a slight bump early on.


Are you talking about magic arrows (that usually come in batches of 50) or regular arrows (that usually come in batches of 20)?

In a home game, I'd allow buying smaller lots of regular arrows and smaller lots of magical arrows (if the party can find someone who wants to sell some). In PFS, I'm pretty sure you can't buy fewer than 50 magical arrows or 20 non-magical arrows at a time, unless it was on a particular chronicle in a smaller amount.

Shadow Lodge **

I was thinking about magical ammunition. Normal ammunition is so cheap it's not worth splitting.


I don't have the guide in front of me, but doesn't it specifically say you have to buy magical ammo in lots of 50? Maybe those folks got a chronicle that allowed them to buy one type of arrow in lots of 5.

Josh's comment on the issue.

Andoran *****

Paizo Charter Superscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Deluxe Comics Subscriber

What about non magical special material ammo? I am not usre of the rules with Special Material.

Taldor *** Venture-Lieutenant, North Carolina—Asheville aka zylphryx

D'oh! just realized this was under PFS, not PF general. For PFS, yeah, you have to go the full 50 for magical ammo unless you come across smaller quantities over the course of a scenario.

<I can't believe I didn't notice this was under PFS ... hangs head in shame>

Shadow Lodge **

Ok, cool.

This is how I've run things but in a game I was playing with I swear someone bought five. Perhaps they were doing it from a chronicle.

zylphryx, no worries, no harm, no foul.

*****

0gre wrote:

Ok, cool.

This is how I've run things but in a game I was playing with I swear someone bought five. Perhaps they were doing it from a chronicle.

zylphryx, no worries, no harm, no foul.

I know there's singleton holy arrows on the

Spoiler:
Citadel of Flame
chronicle sheet.
Sczarni *** Venture-Lieutenant, Connecticut—Manchester aka Cpt_kirstov

Rogue Eidolon wrote:
0gre wrote:

Ok, cool.

This is how I've run things but in a game I was playing with I swear someone bought five. Perhaps they were doing it from a chronicle.

zylphryx, no worries, no harm, no foul.

I know there's singleton holy arrows on the ** spoiler omitted ** chronicle sheet.

there are some other arrows available x1 only on chronicle sheets

* RPG Superstar 2014 Top 32

Sorry to resurrect this , but I wanted to be clear on this.

Can 'specific weapons'(from table 15-11) that are ammunition be bought in any quantity?
Specifically Sleep-Arrow, Screaming Bolt. They are listed in the CRB as 132gp and 267gp. And they are not listed as a set of 50.

Grand Lodge ***

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Roleplaying Game, Tales Subscriber
Grumpus wrote:

Sorry to resurrect this , but I wanted to be clear on this.

Can 'specific weapons'(from table 15-11) that are ammunition be bought in any quantity?
Specifically Sleep-Arrow, Screaming Bolt. They are listed in the CRB as 132gp and 267gp. And they are not listed as a set of 50.

That's because the price is PER arrow in those cases.

Taldor ***

And to point out you can buy a single adamantine bullet if you will. Or a single silver bullet. I reckon you could buy singular amounts of ammunition if you will. Then at least someone would buy them instead of a +1 ranged weapon.

Grand Lodge ***

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion Subscriber
LazarX wrote:
Grumpus wrote:

Sorry to resurrect this , but I wanted to be clear on this.

Can 'specific weapons'(from table 15-11) that are ammunition be bought in any quantity?
Specifically Sleep-Arrow, Screaming Bolt. They are listed in the CRB as 132gp and 267gp. And they are not listed as a set of 50.

That's because the price is PER arrow in those cases.

This

Qadira *** Venture-Captain, Texas—Dallas & Ft. Worth aka Thorkull

The Guide is pretty clear that non-magical ammunition has to be bought in the quantities listed in the CRB (10 for bolts, 20 for arrows). Since bullets are actually priced per bullet (and per black powder dose), you can buy individual rounds, including special materials.

Magic ammo has to be bought in lots of 50, period.

* RPG Superstar 2014 Top 32

So then the only way to get a slaying arrow is either find it on a chronicle sheet or spend over 100,000 gp because you have to buy in sets of 50?

Grand Lodge ***

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Roleplaying Game, Tales Subscriber
Grumpus wrote:
So then the only way to get a slaying arrow is either find it on a chronicle sheet or spend over 100,000 gp because you have to buy in sets of 50?

Slaying Arrows are priced on a single arrow basis, as are any other unique enchanted arrows which are not simple enchancement bonnues or equivalent.

In other words if your arrow can be described as a +X package of bonuses the price is for a group of 50 enchanted as one batch.

If it's a non-plussed based arrow such as an Arrow of Slaying, or a Screaming Bolt, the price is per arrow/bolt and they are made one at a time.

Qadira *** Venture-Captain, Texas—Dallas & Ft. Worth aka Thorkull

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Grumpus wrote:
So then the only way to get a slaying arrow is either find it on a chronicle sheet or spend over 100,000 gp because you have to buy in sets of 50?

I was going to say, "Yes," but then I re-read the Guide:

GtPSOP, v4.2 wrote:
you must buy ammunition in full lots (typically 10 or 20 for mundane ammunition and 50 for magical ammunition). You may only purchase items of less than full value if they appear that way on a Chronicle sheet.

The key word is "typically." Slaying arrows are priced individually, so you can buy them in singletons.

"All generalizations are false, including this one."
-- Mark Twain

Cheliax **

Jonathan Cary wrote:
GtPSOP, v4.2 wrote:
you must buy ammunition in full lots (typically 10 or 20 for mundane ammunition and 50 for magical ammunition). You may only purchase items of less than full value if they appear that way on a Chronicle sheet.
The key word is "typically." Slaying arrows are priced individually, so you can buy them in singletons.

In this case, "typically" modifies "10 or 20 for mundane ammunition and 50 for magical ammunition", which merely specifies what constitutes a "full lot". "Typically" does NOT modify the statement of how "you must buy ammunition". This is clear both because "typically" must come before the clause it modifies (unless specific pains are taken to arrange it otherwise) and because it is grouped into a parenthetical aside, functionally separating it from the text outside the parentheses and grouping it with the text inside the parentheses.

Your interpretation of the meaning of "typically" is incorrect.

Qadira *** Venture-Captain, Texas—Dallas & Ft. Worth aka Thorkull

Grammar Nazi wrote:
Jonathan Cary wrote:
GtPSOP, v4.2 wrote:
you must buy ammunition in full lots (typically 10 or 20 for mundane ammunition and 50 for magical ammunition). You may only purchase items of less than full value if they appear that way on a Chronicle sheet.
The key word is "typically." Slaying arrows are priced individually, so you can buy them in singletons.

In this case, "typically" modifies "10 or 20 for mundane ammunition and 50 for magical ammunition", which merely specifies what constitutes a "full lot". "Typically" does NOT modify the statement of how "you must buy ammunition". This is clear both because "typically" must come before the clause it modifies (unless specific pains are taken to arrange it otherwise) and because it is grouped into a parenthetical aside, functionally separating it from the text outside the parentheses and grouping it with the text inside the parentheses.

Your interpretation of the meaning of "typically" is incorrect.

The entire parenthetical clause is referring to the "full lots." An equivalent way of stating it would be:

"You must buy ammunition in full lots. A full lot is typically 10 or 20 for mundane ammunition and 50 for magical ammunition."

Since slaying arrows are priced individually, and since full lots appear to be determined by how many are included in the price on the Core Rulebook, then a "full lot" of slaying arrows is, in fact, one arrow.

Cheliax **

Jonathan Cary wrote:

The entire parenthetical clause is referring to the "full lots." An equivalent way of stating it would be:

"You must buy ammunition in full lots. A full lot is typically 10 or 20 for mundane ammunition and 50 for magical ammunition."

Since slaying arrows are priced individually, and since full lots appear to be determined by how many are included in the price on the Core Rulebook, then a "full lot" of slaying arrows is, in fact, one arrow.

Note that I was not contradicting your conclusion, just your incorrect application of grammar rules to get there. Your "equivalent way of stating it" is correct. I have no comment on where you go from there; that's outside my "jurisdiction".

EDIT: Re-reading your original statement, I can see how your meaning may have been different than that which I was correcting. But seeing as I'm a Nazi, you get no apology.

Qadira *** Venture-Captain, Texas—Dallas & Ft. Worth aka Thorkull

Grammar Nazi wrote:
EDIT: Re-reading your original statement, I can see how your meaning may have been different than that which I was correcting. But seeing as I'm a Nazi, you get no apology.

That's ok. You weren't in arm's reach so no one got hurt.

Cheliax ****

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Maps, Modules Subscriber

Just for amusement, I'll point out that HeroLab defaults to special material bundles of arrows being in 50 unit packs as well.

I was lazy and bought them that way, and then haven't had to use them on my archer at all. He's still got his initial 50 each cold iron and silver arrows, in five quivers.

*****

TetsujinOni wrote:

Just for amusement, I'll point out that HeroLab defaults to special material bundles of arrows being in 50 unit packs as well.

I was lazy and bought them that way, and then haven't had to use them on my archer at all. He's still got his initial 50 each cold iron and silver arrows, in five quivers.

Wow, people buy non cold-iron arrows? You must be pretty confident in your allies to be able to ID the DR of your enemies. I just shoot cold iron arrows by default just in case. It's not like the price increase is noticeable.

Cheliax ****

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Maps, Modules Subscriber

At this point, manyshot/cluster shot and the fact that I carry 2 +1 bane bows (one evil outsider, one aberration), and have favored enemy human +4 / undead +2, means I can glean ammo from fallen enemies after the first fight without mechanical changes in most adventures with enemy archers.

Urban Ranger Favored Enemy Human, you're such a lovely 'obvious path' to Pathfinder Society fame.

*****

TetsujinOni wrote:

At this point, manyshot/cluster shot and the fact that I carry 2 +1 bane bows (one evil outsider, one aberration), and have favored enemy human +4 / undead +2, means I can glean ammo from fallen enemies after the first fight without mechanical changes in most adventures with enemy archers.

Urban Ranger Favored Enemy Human, you're such a lovely 'obvious path' to Pathfinder Society fame.

Ah yes, at higher levels you don't really need the cold iron any more.

Andoran ***

Correct, any non-named magical ammunition is bought in lots of 50.

Named magical ammunition, like Arrows of Sleep, are bought in whatever quantity they are listed at in their source.

Special material ammunition are bought in standard quantities, 10 for bolts or sling bullets, 20 for arrows. HeroLab is a pain that way, since the lot of 50 they force you into is actually not PFS legal, at least for arrows.

Using weapon blanch on a batch of ammunition uses up/coats 10 units.

Now, if only HeroLab actually grouped objects together that are placed in containers....

Spoiler:
Sorry, my 12th level PFS archer has two efficient quivers and a bag of holding full of various arrows.
Quiver 1 is setup fr casting Abundant Ammunition on before the combat starts, it contains one full attack's worth of arrows.
Quiver 2 is spares, snap shot arrows, and the arrows you want to remain in your opponent (Thistle).
The Bag of Holding contains all the spare/reload ammunition, so that the situation that affected my archer during Year of the Shadow Lodge, where he ran out of normal arrows during the first combat, doesn't happen again.

And standard HL printouts don't gropup the arrows together by quiver, just by type, which looks confusing:
Arrows (6)
Arrows (92)
Arrows (6)
etc.

Silver Crusade ***** Venture-Lieutenant, North Carolina—Raleigh aka greysector

1 person marked this as FAQ candidate.

Here's a question: If a chronicle sheet has magical arrows (e.g. +1 bane human arrows, limit 5) can those be purchased as bolts? If not, then boo. I don't think that I've ever seen a magical bolt on a chronicle sheet that wasn't a specifically magical bolt (such as a screaming bolt).

Grand Lodge ***

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Roleplaying Game, Tales Subscriber
zylphryx wrote:

D'oh! just realized this was under PFS, not PF general. For PFS, yeah, you have to go the full 50 for magical ammo unless you come across smaller quantities over the course of a scenario.

<I can't believe I didn't notice this was under PFS ... hangs head in shame>

This doesn't apply in cases where the specific price is for single arrows or bolts.

Taldor ***** Venture-Lieutenant, Pennsylvania—Philadelphia aka Iammars

greysector wrote:
Here's a question: If a chronicle sheet has magical arrows (e.g. +1 bane human arrows, limit 5) can those be purchased as bolts? If not, then boo. I don't think that I've ever seen a magical bolt on a chronicle sheet that wasn't a specifically magical bolt (such as a screaming bolt).

No, but don't despair. I've definitely seen magical bolts on a chronicle sheet before. Magical bullets on the other hand...

Silver Crusade ***** Venture-Lieutenant, North Carolina—Raleigh aka greysector

Iammars wrote:
No, but don't despair. I've definitely seen magical bolts on a chronicle sheet before. Magical bullets on the other hand...

Reviewing my chronicle sheets, I see that I have played exactly one scenario (out of fifty) which allowed the purchase of +1 frost bolts limit 6. Of course it wasn't with my crossbowman character. I guess I'll have to apply that GM chronicle sheet to him when I run the adventure later this month.

On the arrow side, I have seen a variety of bane types, holy, and flaming burst.

I also have five characters, so the chances of actually playing a random scenario with, say, +1 bane human bolts will be vanishingly unlikely as I continue to add more characters.

I guess I'm just irritated that nearly every time I see magical ammunition they are arrows.

Grand Lodge ***

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Roleplaying Game, Tales Subscriber
greysector wrote:
Iammars wrote:
No, but don't despair. I've definitely seen magical bolts on a chronicle sheet before. Magical bullets on the other hand...

Reviewing my chronicle sheets, I see that I have played exactly one scenario (out of fifty) which allowed the purchase of +1 frost bolts limit 6. Of course it wasn't with my crossbowman character. I guess I'll have to apply that GM chronicle sheet to him when I run the adventure later this month.

On the arrow side, I have seen a variety of bane types, holy, and flaming burst.

I also have five characters, so the chances of actually playing a random scenario with, say, +1 bane human bolts will be vanishingly unlikely as I continue to add more characters.

I guess I'm just irritated that nearly every time I see magical ammunition they are arrows.

At some point, your fame score should allow you to just buy them.

Grand Lodge ***

Iammars wrote:
greysector wrote:
Here's a question: If a chronicle sheet has magical arrows (e.g. +1 bane human arrows, limit 5) can those be purchased as bolts? If not, then boo. I don't think that I've ever seen a magical bolt on a chronicle sheet that wasn't a specifically magical bolt (such as a screaming bolt).
No, but don't despair. I've definitely seen magical bolts on a chronicle sheet before. Magical bullets on the other hand...

Arrows, bolts, and sling bullets (I think) but nary a single firearm bullet at all. :(

Silver Crusade ***** Venture-Lieutenant, North Carolina—Raleigh aka greysector

LazarX wrote:
At some point, your fame score should allow you to just buy them.

The point isn't to buy them, buying them isn't the problem. Buying them in useful and affordable quantities is the problem. Purchasing 50 pieces of meaningful magical ammunition costs minimum 8,000 gp and change (for a +1 bolt with a +1 effective bonus ability). Unless I shoot them constantly I'll probably never run out of them, so I have wasted all of the money on all of the bolts that I never fire.

Compare that to characters who use bows. They are able to find (with about five times greater frequency) useful magical ammunition that they can purchase by the arrow with a small and useful limit (usually between two and ten).

Shadow Lodge **

So you need to cough up 1,201 gold for a batch of adamantite arrows?

Qadira **** Venture-Lieutenant, Netherlands—Amsterdam aka Seraphimpunk

1 person marked this as FAQ candidate.

doesn't the guide only cover magical ammunition?

nonmagical / special materials are priced singleton just like named weapons like Sleep Arrow and Slaying Arrow are.

aka Adamantine Arrow 60.1 gp, Silver Arrow 2.1gp, Cold Iron Arrow .2gp

Qadira **** Venture-Lieutenant, Netherlands—Amsterdam aka Seraphimpunk

pg 25: item value wrote:
and you must buy ammunition in full lots (typically 10 or 20 for mundane ammunition and 50 for magical ammunition).

oh wow, how annoying. yup

quiver of 20 adamantine arrows 1,201gp.
quiver of 20 alchemical silver arrows 41gp.
quiver of 20 cold iron arrows 2gp.

Fortunately, the alterinative, since we know that weapon blanches carry over from scenario to scenario, is to buy a quiver of 20 mundane arrows (per usual), and apply Adamantine weapon blanch (100gp?) to 10 of them, then use Abundant Ammunition on your quiver.

quiver of 20 weapon blanched adamantine arrows 201gp.

Qadira **** Venture-Lieutenant, Netherlands—Amsterdam aka Seraphimpunk

oh and for those that don't want the -1 to damage:

quiver of 20 mithril arrows 1501gp.

Andoran ***

Nope, nonmagical special material ammunition need to be bought in standard lots.
1 firearm bullet (lucky dogs!)
10 sling bullets or crossbow bolts
20 arrows

So, yes, it costs 1201 gp for a standard batch of 20 adamantine arrows.

Then again, for a lower price, you could buy 20 cold iron arrows, at 2 gp, and two doses of adamantine weapon blanch, for 200 gp, and have 20 cold iron, adamantine blanched, arrows. Won't bypass hardness, but it will bypass both cold iron and adamantine DR. At about a third of the price of the real thing...

We won't even go into the benefits of the ghost salt weapon blanch....

Shadow Lodge **

Blanches are nice for DR, but i usually like an adamantite arrow or three to cut ropes , chains, and locks.

FREEDOM! at 120 paces.

Andoran ***

Seraphimpunk wrote:

oh and for those that don't want the -1 to damage:

quiver of 20 mithril arrows 1501gp.

Alternative:

Cold iron arrows, 2 gp
2 doses of weapon blanch silver: 10 gp

20 silvered, cold iron arrows, no damage penalty: 12 gp

Qadira **** Venture-Lieutenant, Netherlands—Amsterdam aka Seraphimpunk

the alchemical silver weapon blanche doesn't apply the -1 penalty ? it mimics the alchemical silver property, which is -1 damage unless its a bludgeoning weapon. Even silversheen, 300gp oil, produces the -1 damage penalty...

nice. i'm going to have to stock up on silvered cold iron arrows.

Ghost Salts are nice too. 200gp / 10 arrows. bypass incorporeal.

Andoran ***

The -1 damage penalty on alchemical silvered weapons is because the weapon is made out of silver, and therefore softer than steel. Weapon blanch is more like applying nickel plating to the weapon, shouldn't affect damage.

Also, for a real useful material, but not for ammo, look at silversheen from the Qadira book.

Silver Crusade ***

Yeah, I'm seriously bummed about the magic arrow quantity - why 50 for magic when regular ones are lots of 20? Just seems an arbitrary amount that only serves to make them prohibitively costly to purchase, & we're left hoping to find smaller quantities on a chronicle. At least in lots of 20 I may actually purchase them, but as it stands PFS might as well just make them unavailable except on chronicles. Makes absolutely no sense to me why the massive difference in quantities - IRL more expensive items are almost always sold in smaller lots. Does anyone know why it's listed this way?

Shadow Lodge **

Elvis wrote:
Yeah, I'm seriously bummed about the magic arrow quantity - why 50 for magic when regular ones are lots of 20?

Because 50 human-bane arrows isn't nearly as good as 20 human-bane arrows, 10 evil outsider bane arrows, 10 aberration-bane arrows,and 10 undead-bane arrows.

Qadira *** Venture-Captain, Texas—Dallas & Ft. Worth aka Thorkull

Elvis Aron Manypockets wrote:
Yeah, I'm seriously bummed about the magic arrow quantity - why 50 for magic when regular ones are lots of 20?

Because the costs are based on the magical plus of the weapon, and uses the same chart as other weapons. I imagine the designers didn't feel that 2,301 GP for 20 +1 arrows was a fair price.

Andoran ***

Jonathan Cary wrote:
Elvis Aron Manypockets wrote:
Yeah, I'm seriously bummed about the magic arrow quantity - why 50 for magic when regular ones are lots of 20?
Because the costs are based on the magical plus of the weapon, and uses the same chart as other weapons. I imagine the designers didn't feel that 2,301 GP for 20 +1 arrows was a fair price.

Given that +1 X Bane arrows would cost 8,301 for Y arrows, where, now, Y is defined as 50:

50 +1 X Bane arrows cost 8,301, or 166.02 gp each
If Y is defined as 20:
20 +1 X Bane arrows cost 8,301, or 415.05 gp each.

Which would you rather pay?

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