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Playing Kingmaker past the end of the AP


Kingmaker


Pathfinder Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Pawns, Roleplaying Game, Tales Subscriber

Has anyone out there tried this already? I know the last part of kingmaker has a small article to keep the campaign going after #36, has anyone played through those or fleshed them out at all?


Scott Andrews wrote:
Has anyone out there tried this already? I know the last part of kingmaker has a small article to keep the campaign going after #36, has anyone played through those or fleshed them out at all?

I cant decide whether to

a) run from 1st level again with the first party all retired or dead, uisng the kingdom how the party built it, and a new party hearing tales of various legendary heores and facing a new threat

b) running a level 16 to 20 thing, either as mentioned in the AP, or using some high level mods from the D&D companion series for example

we are in mod 5 , so i have some time to discuss with the gang

Taldor

Pathfinder Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure Path, Tales Subscriber

We've not gotten there yet, but I planned on mixing a few of those things up that they list to make it to 20th. I wanted to combine the return of Choral with the Rostland Revolution. Pretty much follow the return to the letter, while having the (hopeful) defeat of the dragon scare Surtova into going after the PCs, with some trumped up charge of inciting war in his country or some such. PCs find out Surtova put the dragon up to attacking the PCs and go from there. Much sweeter since my ruler PC was born into the Surtova family.


I certainly plan on running the invasion of Brevoy. I honestly don't know what my players will do when that happens. they might go ahead and tear Brevoy apart in civil war. Or they could flee to a new city and let things calm down for a bit. Or just go sightseeing around the inner sea and look for uber weapons to smash their enemies with....


Runnetib wrote:
We've not gotten there yet, but I planned on mixing a few of those things up that they list to make it to 20th. I wanted to combine the return of Choral with the Rostland Revolution. Pretty much follow the return to the letter, while having the (hopeful) defeat of the dragon scare Surtova into going after the PCs, with some trumped up charge of inciting war in his country or some such. PCs find out Surtova put the dragon up to attacking the PCs and go from there. Much sweeter since my ruler PC was born into the Surtova family.

I'm tentatively going to be combining these two as well; the PCs return from their jaunt in the Thousandbreaths to find they've jumped forward a half-year in time (the First World is unpredictable in that sense), during which, Choral has returned, and Regent Surtova has just now goaded Choral into a war of conquest to retake Rostland and the Stolen Lands. Ensue both civil war and inevitable heroes vs. elder dragon showdown.


Personally I would like to see some PCs take on the rest of the river kingdoms. After all by the time they hit the last book they should have taken Pitax already and Mivon is right there next in line. Uniting the river kingdoms would seem like a great adventure, lots of chances for just about everything from monster bashing to forging alliances to create vassel states. Who knows maybe even draw the eye of other countries besides Brevoy who at that point would be a push over.

Why be a king when we can upgrade to emperor. :)


hmmm...Daviot and Omnichaos both make good points...

I like the idea of moving them forward five years or so. that opens up some interesting possiblities. the kingdom is seized by a Crown Regent and governed by a puppet from Brevoy. unrest is growing, the king from the north is looting the country, and Brevoy on the verge of a civil war just feels like a good start. they have to get their house in order, rebuild what's been looted and deal with all kinds of issues.

they could take Mivon first as a warmup, then move on to Brevoy.


Mr. Quick wrote:

they could take Mivon first as a warmup, then move on to Brevoy.

Well the good thing is Mivon is made up of exiled swordlords more or less so you may not have to go thru the normal seige to take them over. Depending on how you go about it you could take Mivon with little opposition, which in turn may make the taking of Brevoy easier or at least its bottom half. Leaving the Surtova's alone or even exposed as enemies to those in Brevoy.


OmniChaos wrote:
Mr. Quick wrote:

they could take Mivon first as a warmup, then move on to Brevoy.

Well the good thing is Mivon is made up of exiled swordlords more or less so you may not have to go thru the normal seige to take them over. Depending on how you go about it you could take Mivon with little opposition, which in turn may make the taking of Brevoy easier or at least its bottom half. Leaving the Surtova's alone or even exposed as enemies to those in Brevoy.

I've been playing up the conflict within Brevoy since day one - the players already despise the Surtova family. So having them get stuck in a time warp (its just a step to the left...) at the end of the final boss fight only to come home and find that their hated enemy has seized control of their kingdom and is hunting down their loyalists would be a perfect start to the next part of the campaign.


it'll be a long time til we're there but i'm already busy with scheme hatchery, i plan on exploring the river kingdoms and then iobaria, i was thinking of doing something with outlaw council then a journey to seven arches followed by a journey to iobaria.

Osirion RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4; Contributor; Publisher, Legendary Games

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captain yesterday wrote:
it'll be a long time til we're there but i'm already busy with scheme hatchery, i plan on exploring the river kingdoms and then iobaria, i was thinking of doing something with outlaw council then a journey to seven arches followed by a journey to iobaria.

I wrote War of the River Kings in part as a conflict directly with Pitax, but also in part as an evolutionary story of the PCs' kingdom maturing and growing into a legitimate diplomatic state that would become part of the River Kingdoms politics.

Hence, much of the point of the tournament (besides fun and games and a distraction for Pitax) is for the PCs to meet the leaders of the other RKs, and in fact in Chapter 3 of the manuscript for the PCs to try calling for an Outlaw Council (and seeing if their diplomacy and efforts have borne enough fruit in terms of renown that the other RKs decide to listen and respond).

Alas, that part is in the final, but if it's an element you want to include in that part of your Kingmaker, email me at

Spoiler:
tjaden jason at gmail dot com

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Roleplaying Game, Tales Subscriber
OmniChaos wrote:

Personally I would like to see some PCs take on the rest of the river kingdoms. After all by the time they hit the last book they should have taken Pitax already and Mivon is right there next in line. Uniting the river kingdoms would seem like a great adventure, lots of chances for just about everything from monster bashing to forging alliances to create vassel states. Who knows maybe even draw the eye of other countries besides Brevoy who at that point would be a push over.

Why be a king when we can upgrade to emperor. :)

Even though my group is just now starting on 2nd book. They have given me notice of uniting the River Kingdoms into one large realm. So if anyone is working on this, that would be so awesome.

Cheliax

Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Campaign Setting, Cards, Companion, Maps, Modules, Pawns, Roleplaying Game, Tales Subscriber

I can't not recommend this for post AP fun, especially for 16-20 play: Coliseum Morpheun


Jason Nelson wrote:


I wrote War of the River Kings in part as a conflict directly with Pitax, but also in part as an evolutionary story of the PCs' kingdom maturing and growing into a legitimate diplomatic state that would become part of the River Kingdoms politics.

Hence, much of the point of the tournament (besides fun and games and a distraction for Pitax) is for the PCs to meet the leaders of the other RKs, and in fact in Chapter 3 of the manuscript for the PCs to try calling for an Outlaw Council (and seeing if their diplomacy and efforts have borne enough fruit in terms of renown that the other RKs decide to listen and respond).

Alas, that part is in the final, but if it's an element you want to include in that part of your Kingmaker, email me at

** spoiler omitted **

I am intrigued by this.


PJ wrote:
OmniChaos wrote:

Personally I would like to see some PCs take on the rest of the river kingdoms. After all by the time they hit the last book they should have taken Pitax already and Mivon is right there next in line. Uniting the river kingdoms would seem like a great adventure, lots of chances for just about everything from monster bashing to forging alliances to create vassel states. Who knows maybe even draw the eye of other countries besides Brevoy who at that point would be a push over.

Why be a king when we can upgrade to emperor. :)

Even though my group is just now starting on 2nd book. They have given me notice of uniting the River Kingdoms into one large realm. So if anyone is working on this, that would be so awesome.

I've only just started working on the opposing states in and around the River Kingdoms. I have a sneaking suspicion that my players will conquer as much of Golarion as they can get away with before I call the campaign as done, Numeria wipes them out with mustard gas or Avistan War I starts up...


Well I have a few options for my game. However my Golarion is a bit different. In book 2 the PC's brokered the betrothal of Elana Lebebeda and King Noleski Surtova. Forcing Natalia's hand. She Murdered her brother and assumed the crown as Queen.

This obviously drove the Nobles in Brevoy into a frenzy. Medvyed Obstained action, Lodovka looked the other way. Garess waited. Lebeda held off decision. Orlovsky attempted to Draw Lebeda and Medvyed into a war with a coup falsely. It ended up with The other nobles and the Pc's recognizing her a legitimate Heir to the throne. Orlovsky was hanged.

A year later Natalia Declared herself the Empress of Seven Spires which included Brevoy, Stolen lands, and an invasion of Iobaria. The Pc's brokered Marriages with Two Iobarian Princesses To secure the fealty of Kridorn and Veka. The Empress attacked and won in Orlov.

We are in end of book 5 now. PC's have taken down Pitax and have over 140 Hexes. All Party members are Baron's or Dukes paying fealty to The King which is Loyal to Natalia Surtova.

It gets more interesting as a powerful Taldoran Senator is courting Natalia for a bride.

The PC's hate Natalia but feel they can't take her. I plan on passing some time when they go to First World also and she could take over in their absence. Keeping their children as Wards.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Roleplaying Game, Tales Subscriber
Canton Ohio Pathfinder Lodge wrote:

Well I have a few options for my game. However my Golarion is a bit different. In book 2 the PC's brokered the betrothal of Elana Lebebeda and King Noleski Surtova. Forcing Natalia's hand. She Murdered her brother and assumed the crown as Queen.

This obviously drove the Nobles in Brevoy into a frenzy. Medvyed Obstained action, Lodovka looked the other way. Garess waited. Lebeda held off decision. Orlovsky attempted to Draw Lebeda and Medvyed into a war with a coup falsely. It ended up with The other nobles and the Pc's recognizing her a legitimate Heir to the throne. Orlovsky was hanged.

A year later Natalia Declared herself the Empress of Seven Spires which included Brevoy, Stolen lands, and an invasion of Iobaria. The Pc's brokered Marriages with Two Iobarian Princesses To secure the fealty of Kridorn and Veka. The Empress attacked and won in Orlov.

We are in end of book 5 now. PC's have taken down Pitax and have over 140 Hexes. All Party members are Baron's or Dukes paying fealty to The King which is Loyal to Natalia Surtova.

It gets more interesting as a powerful Taldoran Senator is courting Natalia for a bride.

The PC's hate Natalia but feel they can't take her. I plan on passing some time when they go to First World also and she could take over in their absence. Keeping their children as Wards.

That sounds fun.


We're almost done with Kingmaker. The king has a weapon that will drive him to conquer all the lands about the kingdom. He intends to do it.

The Neutral Good Oracle is going to back him because she wants to see all the people in the River Kingdoms, Numeria, and beyond under their benevolent rule. She wants to heal the world.

I figure with the information given a group of lvl 20 characters taking over the River Kingdoms shouldn't be too hard.

Even Brevoy should be doable.

Numeria might be tough. Have to figure out how tough Kevoth'kol and the Technic League are. Some information on them would be great.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Roleplaying Game, Tales Subscriber
Maddigan wrote:

We're almost done with Kingmaker. The king has a weapon that will drive him to conquer all the lands about the kingdom. He intends to do it.

The Neutral Good Oracle is going to back him because she wants to see all the people in the River Kingdoms, Numeria, and beyond under their benevolent rule. She wants to heal the world.

I figure with the information given a group of lvl 20 characters taking over the River Kingdoms shouldn't be too hard.

Even Brevoy should be doable.

Numeria might be tough. Have to figure out how tough Kevoth'kol and the Technic League are. Some information on them would be great.

Have you 'statted' out the rest of the kingdoms? I'm curious to see that. Did you hex the rest of the River Kingdoms out?


PJ wrote:
Maddigan wrote:

We're almost done with Kingmaker. The king has a weapon that will drive him to conquer all the lands about the kingdom. He intends to do it.

The Neutral Good Oracle is going to back him because she wants to see all the people in the River Kingdoms, Numeria, and beyond under their benevolent rule. She wants to heal the world.

I figure with the information given a group of lvl 20 characters taking over the River Kingdoms shouldn't be too hard.

Even Brevoy should be doable.

Numeria might be tough. Have to figure out how tough Kevoth'kol and the Technic League are. Some information on them would be great.

Have you 'statted' out the rest of the kingdoms? I'm curious to see that. Did you hex the rest of the River Kingdoms out?

Not yet.


Every kingdom has its wildcard or ace even of they sometimes don't know it. Like Choral is for brevoy at the end of kingmaker. If you plan on going on after kingmaker then you should also make groups or beings to match your players. After all if it was that easy then a few level 20's would have ruled the world long before your guys showed up. It takes more then just power to rule and hold that rule. Each Kingdom or nation to be taken should be unique in its own way. You wont be able to blast your way thru everything or the world will see you as tyrants and join each other if only to crush you.

For example if your going after the Technic League and Kevoth'kol then give them construct armies, sense they do have them, make Kevoth a 20th level epic point buy barbarian with some good magic items. Maybe make his sword a major artifact tied to the League. I would also give him a pair of custom monsters like construct war machine scorpions. Keep in mind that while Numeria is controlled by the League its people are loyal to Kevoth so have barbarian armies as well, but when you defeat Kevoth you could have those armies break apart leaving only the League and their forces left. May also want to throw in a League leader or group for the PCs to crush to make sure they end up with total control over the place. Have them choose to seal the metal mountain or take the Leagues place. Plenty of ways to go about it, I really don't see the League or Kevoth getting handled, bullied, forming an alliance by anyone thats why I used a combat based example XD

You get the gist of it, you cant expect the world to stand still. By the time your players take over half the river kingdoms they should have the interest of a number of other nations already. If they strike at anyone outside the river kingdoms then all the other nations will start up their own plans in response.

Personally I would aim for the river kingdoms and razmiran. Likely brevoy if they get uppity too. Maybe galt if they spilled over or got too annoying. But thats where it would end, don't want me or my people to deal with the worldwound or the other troublesome powers around. Not going to provoke every elf and dwarf by going after their homelands or poking the dying empire or messing with a budding democracy. But thats just me. ;)

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Roleplaying Game, Tales Subscriber
OmniChaos wrote:

Every kingdom has its wildcard or ace even of they sometimes don't know it. Like Choral is for brevoy at the end of kingmaker. If you plan on going on after kingmaker then you should also make groups or beings to match your players. After all if it was that easy then a few level 20's would have ruled the world long before your guys showed up. It takes more then just power to rule and hold that rule. Each Kingdom or nation to be taken should be unique in its own way. You wont be able to blast your way thru everything or the world will see you as tyrants and join each other if only to crush you.

For example if your going after the Technic League and Kevoth'kol then give them construct armies, sense they do have them, make Kevoth a 20th level epic point buy barbarian with some good magic items. Maybe make his sword a major artifact tied to the League. I would also give him a pair of custom monsters like construct war machine scorpions. Keep in mind that while Numeria is controlled by the League its people are loyal to Kevoth so have barbarian armies as well, but when you defeat Kevoth you could have those armies break apart leaving only the League and their forces left. May also want to throw in a League leader or group for the PCs to crush to make sure they end up with total control over the place. Have them choose to seal the metal mountain or take the Leagues place. Plenty of ways to go about it, I really don't see the League or Kevoth getting handled, bullied, forming an alliance by anyone thats why I used a combat based example XD

You get the gist of it, you cant expect the world to stand still. By the time your players take over half the river kingdoms they should have the interest of a number of other nations already. If they strike at anyone outside the river kingdoms then all the other nations will start up their own plans in response.

Personally I would aim for the river kingdoms and razmiran. Likely brevoy if they get uppity too. Maybe galt if they spilled over or got too annoying. But thats...

You haven't gone this route have you?


Could you be more specific?

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Roleplaying Game, Tales Subscriber
OmniChaos wrote:
Could you be more specific?

I mean utilizing Numeria. Did you stat epic npcs there?


No I did not stat them, its an example. You disagree with something or consider it a bad example?

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Roleplaying Game, Tales Subscriber
OmniChaos wrote:

No I did not stat them, its an example. You disagree with something or consider it a bad example?

No, not at all, I'm just looking for more ideas to borrow. Less work for me and I'm not embarrassed to say that there are a lot of talented peeps on these boards -- much better than I.

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