I want to learn about CoDzilla

[SunsetPsychosis]

CoDzilla is one of many, many cheesy 3.5 builds. I still have fond memories of my Dragonborn Mongrelfolk Warblade with shield wall and psionic feats. untouchable AC, all of it touch, ridiculous amounts of health, using my +60 Concentration check for all my saving throws, a breath weapon with a crazy DC, and hitting for 8d6 per attack despite using only a shortsword.

Or my gnome illusionist with illusions more real than reality (I actually yelled out 'this is fake' when I cast them so enemies took more damage by passing their will saves to disbelieve).

[A Man In Black]

Ævux wrote:

You know there is one more thing about CoDzilla.

Anti-magic fields.

I'm not sure where, but I remember reading something that Divine casters could still function in an anti-magic field because the gods are not bound to the magic of mortals.

Who knows though, maybe I just dreamed of it one day..

That was a different specific build, the Cheater of Mystra. A feat from a FR book allowed clerics of the goddess of magic to use magic normally in dead magic zones and antimagic zones. Immunity to anti-magic zones or the spell Anti-Magic Zone was a loophole WOTC (and other publishers, Paizo included) would have to deal with repeatedly.

The cleric half of CODzilla came from how clerics have always had self-buffs (or just plain old buffs) that made the cleric better in melee/ranged combat than any non-caster class. It wasn't even complicated in 3.0 before Defenders of the Faith came out: you took archery feats, cast GMW on your bow and arrows, cast one of Divine Favor/Divine Power/Righteous Might at the start of a fight, then made other classes feel small in the pants. While those basics would eventually be nerfed, FR books and DOTF kept adding new bonuses to stack. Persistent Spell and Divine Metamagic were just some of the most outrageous tools, but "CODzilla" as a term predates them both. A cleric CODzilla just stacked a bunch of random bonuses to accuracy and damage on top of their already passable attack routine to hang with some of the top martial performers in damage-dealing, while retaining their ability to solve problems with their huge spell knowledge.

The druid half of CODzilla was pretty straightforward. Pre-splat 3.0 Druids in a proper wild shape form were better at dealing damage than straight martial classes simply by turning into a pouncing cat or grappling bear; they just had defensive deficiencies and had to drop Wild Shape to use their spellcasting abilities. MOTW and DOTF gave them Natural Spell, which completely mooted that problem, and a variety of powerful buffs intended for use in (their relatively weaker) human form or intended for their (relatively weaker) animal companions. Later nerfs would make some of these buffs unusable in Wild Shape, but buffs and new bonuses mostly offset these nerfs. 3.5 in particular gave them a ton of new spells, a ton of new forms (mostly dire animals and dinosaurs), and Natural Spell in core. Whether you played 3.0 core, 3.0 with splats, 3.5 core, or 3.5 with splats, druids were almost as good as clerics and wizards at solving problems with spells, while also outshining melee classes in melee when they felt like it.

These were not cheesy builds; most of them were straightforward and working as intended. The 3.0 core druid CODzilla did nothing but cast Bull's Strength and Barkskin on himself every morning, and turn into a bear whenever he needed to be the best grappler in the game. Clerics and druids were just better than everyone at just about everything when they chose to be, and for every nerf came two buffs to offset it.

SunsetPsychosis wrote:

CoDzilla is one of many, many cheesy 3.5 builds. I still have fond memories of my Dragonborn Mongrelfolk Warblade with shield wall and psionic feats. untouchable AC, all of it touch, ridiculous amounts of health, using my +60 Concentration check for all my saving throws, a breath weapon with a crazy DC, and hitting for 8d6 per attack despite using only a shortsword.

Or my gnome illusionist with illusions more real than reality (I actually yelled out 'this is fake' when I cast them so enemies took more damage by passing their will saves to disbelieve).

The psywar/warblade "abuses" were better on paper than in the game. Both tended to require you to expend maneuvers and/or your psionic focus to pull off the defensive tricks, which meant you couldn't use them again until you spent your turn doing little more than re-upping your defenses. This meant that you could be untouchable or attack effectively.

The shadowcraft gnome is an infamous and fairly specific build. Two or three too many authors went to the "increasing the percentage-effectiveness of Shadow Evocation and Shadow Conjuration" well, and it was trivially nerfed if you didn't want it in your game.

Part of the reason that "CODzilla" as a term was so enduring was that most or all of the main tools were in core.

[gbonehead]

And don't even talk to me about Master of Many Forms. I just found out this past Friday that it makes the druid immune to all transmutation spells.

Why on earth should being a wild shaper make you immune to disintegrate??

"You're hit with a maximized twinned split-ray repeating disintegrate ... you need to make four Fort saves."
"No I don't ... I'm immune to all transmutation effects."
"All transmutation effects?"
"Yep."

[leo1925]

gbonehead wrote:

And don't even talk to me about Master of Many Forms. I just found out this past Friday that it makes the druid immune to all transmutation spells.

Why on earth should being a wild shaper make you immune to disintegrate??

"You're hit with a maximized twinned split-ray repeating disintegrate ... you need to make four Fort saves."
"No I don't ... I'm immune to all transmutation effects."
"All transmutation effects?"
"Yep."

Hahahahahahahaha......

By the way how did you make the letters blue?

[gbonehead]

leo1925 wrote:

gbonehead wrote:

And don't even talk to me about Master of Many Forms. I just found out this past Friday that it makes the druid immune to all transmutation spells.

Why on earth should being a wild shaper make you immune to disintegrate??

"You're hit with a maximized twinned split-ray repeating disintegrate ... you need to make four Fort saves."
"No I don't ... I'm immune to all transmutation effects."
"All transmutation effects?"
"Yep."

Hahahahahahahaha......

By the way how did you make the letters blue?

You use the ooc tag: [ooc]

The most amusing part of the whole thing is that it was friendly fire that (would) have hit him (but didn't).

[Aelryinth]

Technically, that would be, "You need to make 4 fort saves THIS ROUND, and again NEXT ROUND."

But, hey, in 2E, check out Volo's Guide to all things magical...there's a gem that makes you immune to all changes in state (i.e. transmutation effects) just by carrying it.

==Aelryinth

[gbonehead]

Aelryinth wrote:

Technically, that would be, "You need to make 4 fort saves THIS ROUND, and again NEXT ROUND."

But, hey, in 2E, check out Volo's Guide to all things magical...there's a gem that makes you immune to all changes in state (i.e. transmutation effects) just by carrying it.

==Aelryinth

Only if he's dumb enough not to move, in which case I'd say that next round, not this round.

[Aelryinth]

well, he'd have to move and be under cover...the rays go off at the same target ;)

==Aelryinth

[Captain Sir Hexen Ineptus]

sunshadow21 wrote:

Same with dire versions of animals, they technically weren't valid to be used with wild shape.

They only reason they couldn't be this, is if they were not familiar with the dire versions.

[Caineach]

Captain Sir Hexen Ineptus wrote:

sunshadow21 wrote:

Same with dire versions of animals, they technically weren't valid to be used with wild shape.

They only reason they couldn't be this, is if they were not familiar with the dire versions.

It actually was dependant on if the dire version was a template or not, IIRC.

[thepuregamer]

dire was not a template. If it were, it would have a relatively universal effect when applied to creatures. IE, a dire bat has 16 more strength than a regular bat while a dire tiger only has 4 more. The dire animals are definitely not created from a template.

[gbonehead]

Aelryinth wrote:

well, he'd have to move and be under cover...the rays go off at the same target ;)

==Aelryinth

Heheheh ... but you don't expect me to remind him to move out5 of range, do you?

In any case, in this instance the wizard was incorporeal and underwater in muddy water, couldn't see a darn thing, and was shooting blindly at a location hoping to hit something.

All in all, it was a bit of a mess :)

Caineach wrote:

Captain Sir Hexen Ineptus wrote:

sunshadow21 wrote:

Same with dire versions of animals, they technically weren't valid to be used with wild shape.

They only reason they couldn't be this, is if they were not familiar with the dire versions.

It actually was dependant on if the dire version was a template or not, IIRC.

Caineach is correct - even in all the splatbooks in 3.5e, there was no ability or feat that would let a druid wildshape into a templated creature. Always had to be a base, non-advanced, non-templated creature.

[A Man In Black]

gbonehead wrote:

Caineach is correct - even in all the splatbooks in 3.5e, there was no ability or feat that would let a druid wildshape into a templated creature. Always had to be a base, non-advanced, non-templated creature.

No, there was a feat or class-sub that allowed druids from a certain region in Eberron to wild shape into Horrid animals, and Horrid was a template. That said, Horrid could only be applied to dire animals (and depending on how you read the feat, it might only be allowing you to WS into specific Horrid animals), so it wasn't a big deal.

[45ur4]

The Planar Shepherd prestige class of Eberron gives a Druid the ability to wildshape into outsiders and magical beasts with templates of his chosen planes.

[Aelryinth]

A Man In Black wrote:

gbonehead wrote:

Caineach is correct - even in all the splatbooks in 3.5e, there was no ability or feat that would let a druid wildshape into a templated creature. Always had to be a base, non-advanced, non-templated creature.

No, there was a feat or class-sub that allowed druids from a certain region in Eberron to wild shape into Horrid animals, and Horrid was a template. That said, Horrid could only be applied to dire animals (and depending on how you read the feat, it might only be allowing you to WS into specific Horrid animals), so it wasn't a big deal.

Yeah, i think it was either class sub or one of the 'affiliation' feats, where you were a druid of a specific order and as a result could become a horrid animal, because they made horrid animals to fight against Aberrations popping up out of the Dragon Below, completely ignoring what an acid-dripping creature will do to the natural ecology.

==Aelryinth

[Ryzoken]

45ur4 wrote:

The Planar Shepherd prestige class of Eberron gives a Druid the ability to wildshape into outsiders and magical beasts with templates of his chosen planes.

It does so many better things than that.

Like letting your entire party take 10 rounds to every 1 round your opponent takes, as long as they're close enough to you. Yeah... that PrC is... a little borked.

[ZioKai]

Yep I have fond memories of my cleric/wizard/mystic thuerge who could Tensor's Transformation and Righteous Might and still have access to his abilities to expand turn undead to smite people with a bonus to Char mod.

Also played a Wood Elf Barbarian/Frenzied Bereseker/ and the elf specific prestige class out of Races of the Wild that also frenzied. I cound rage/frenzy/frenzy and gain massive bonuses to my str/dex/con and be unkillable and make those around me frenzy. It got stupid when I took Leadership and became a cheiftain in game.

Biggest cheese factory I saw was a mulitclass Bard who had three prestige class that let him walk around in Supreme Invisibility and anti magic field excluding himself and just walk up and kill you.

[Captain Sir Hexen Ineptus]

Caineach wrote:

Captain Sir Hexen Ineptus wrote:

sunshadow21 wrote:

Same with dire versions of animals, they technically weren't valid to be used with wild shape.

They only reason they couldn't be this, is if they were not familiar with the dire versions.

It actually was dependant on if the dire version was a template or not, IIRC.

People asked for a template version of "Dire" for the other creatures, but there never was, probably for this reason. In short Dire is not a template. Each dire animal was an actual unique animal to itself.

God, can you imagine a dire Roc?

P.S. Linky!
Dire Animals

[Captain Sir Hexen Ineptus]

ZioKai wrote:

Yep I have fond memories of my cleric/wizard/mystic thuerge who could Tensor's Transformation and Righteous Might and still have access to his abilities to expand turn undead to smite people with a bonus to Char mod.

Also played a Wood Elf Barbarian/Frenzied Bereseker/ and the elf specific prestige class out of Races of the Wild that also frenzied. I cound rage/frenzy/frenzy and gain massive bonuses to my str/dex/con and be unkillable and make those around me frenzy. It got stupid when I took Leadership and became a cheiftain in game.

Biggest cheese factory I saw was a mulitclass Bard who had three prestige class that let him walk around in Supreme Invisibility and anti magic field excluding himself and just walk up and kill you.

Lion Totem Barbarian, leap attack, shock trooper, etc right! XD

[Aelryinth]

No dif then Frenzied Berserk/barb/bear warrior with his +28 Str adjustment...

Heh.

Barb/2, F/4...Weapon Focus, Power Attack, Extra Rage, Pounce, Leap Attack, Shock Trooper, Weapon Spec, with a Valorous weapon.

Triple dmg charge, full attack, convert PA to AC instead of against BAB.

Pretty much anything you hit went squish.

Then just add more Str, ability to see the enemy, and more movement, and your Ubercharger was off and running.

If you take 10 levels of FB and hit level 20...

That's 20 pts of Power attack = 80 dmg with a 2h weapon (Supreme Power Attack)...
x2 dmg for Leap attack...
x3 for Valorous Weapon...

You'll have a minimum of 40 str, so +27 from Str and magic...

Your MINIMUM damage with a reach weapon was 325 pts. And you have Supreme Cleave. All at +50something to hit.

Charge the party with a flying, true seeing, enlarged FB, and it was a one-round wipe if they were within 20' of one another.

==Aelryinth

[Captain Sir Hexen Ineptus]

Aelryinth wrote:

No dif then Frenzied Berserk/barb/bear warrior with his +28 Str adjustment...

Heh.

Barb/2, F/4...Weapon Focus, Power Attack, Extra Rage, Pounce, Leap Attack, Shock Trooper, Weapon Spec, with a Valorous weapon.

Triple dmg charge, full attack, convert PA to AC instead of against BAB.

Pretty much anything you hit went squish.

Then just add more Str, ability to see the enemy, and more movement, and your Ubercharger was off and running.

If you take 10 levels of FB and hit level 20...

That's 20 pts of Power attack = 80 dmg with a 2h weapon (Supreme Power Attack)...
x2 dmg for Leap attack...
x3 for Valorous Weapon...

You'll have a minimum of 40 str, so +27 from Str and magic...

Your MINIMUM damage with a reach weapon was 325 pts. And you have Supreme Cleave. All at +50something to hit.

Charge the party with a flying, true seeing, enlarged FB, and it was a one-round wipe if they were within 20' of one another.

==Aelryinth

Bear warrior had a problem with equipment and weapons as they shape shifted didn't they?

[Aelryinth]

Wilding clasps or Amulets of MAgic Fang and whatnot. In short, not really.

===Aelryinth