Would You Rather Live in the Ascendency of a Civilization or its Decline?


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Scarab Sages

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Give me 10,000 years of youth and good health so I can watch both ascension and decline with indifference.


Artanthos wrote:
Give me 10,000 years of youth and good health so I can watch both ascension and decline with indifference.

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And what will you trade me in order to get this?

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thejeff wrote:

Phrase it differently:

Do you want your children to do better than you did, or do you want to do better than your children will?

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You're going to have to define "better". Because I think my children
being able to ride around on motorcycles hunting for gas, and smashing
skulls with flint-head maces is "better" than my current life.

.


Pathfinder Maps, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

At a minimum, "better" should imply that they have access to better resources than I do, and (more importantly) have a longer life expectancy from birth than I do. No post-apocalyptic scenario would be "better" by those criteria.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
David knott 242 wrote:

At a minimum, "better" should imply that they have access to better resources than I do, and (more importantly) have a longer life expectancy from birth than I do. No post-apocalyptic scenario would be "better" by those criteria.

Expect that some answers here will indicate that the respondents are either latent sociopaths or trolls.


Or both.


I am not a sociopathic troll. ~causes trouble~ ok. ok. So I am one.


latent?


David knott 242 wrote:
At a minimum, "better" should imply that they have access to better resources than I do, and (more importantly) have a longer life expectancy from birth than I do. No post-apocalyptic scenario would be "better" by those criteria.

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maybe... but probably not. Here:

> The Most IMPORTANT Video You'll Ever See (part 1 of 8) <

Spoiler:
It's ok if you can't get past part 1. That's why god invented Public School.

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The Exchange

NYC banned the sale of big soft drinks in restaurants only - where does that put us? Ascending or in freefall?


Grand Magus wrote:
David knott 242 wrote:
At a minimum, "better" should imply that they have access to better resources than I do, and (more importantly) have a longer life expectancy from birth than I do. No post-apocalyptic scenario would be "better" by those criteria.

.

maybe... but probably not. Here:

> The Most IMPORTANT Video You'll Ever See (part 1 of 8) <

** spoiler omitted **

.

That IS a pretty cool video.


KaeYoss wrote:
Martin Kauffman 530 wrote:
I seriously doubt the United States will exist in thirty years. Chances are that it will break up into smaller countries/fiefdoms; and this breakup will be the start of a new dark age. God help us all- especially the young.
Can't wait. Though this gives us Europeans time to decide what we'll do when that happens: Ceaselessly laugh at you, or invade. Though I think the course is quite clear: We'll invade, laughing all the time. And then we'll dress up your leaders as native Americans and toss them into the sea :P

I wouldn't mind this at all. I've developed a taste for shooting people (Desert Shield/Storm, Yugoslav, Iraq, Afganistan, ret'd), and since your folks would be the "invaders", no one (who matters) would gainsay me picking off a couple filthy Euros occasionally. Besides, maintaining my accuracy by popping off paper targets is not very satisfying.

Quote:
Expect that some answers here will indicate that the respondents are either latent sociopaths or trolls.

Challenge accepted. See above.

The Exchange

yellowdingo wrote:
NYC banned the sale of big soft drinks in restaurants only - where does that put us? Ascending or in freefall?

A nation mostly of idiots led by idiots


Citizen R, of course, is the exception.

The Exchange

Burgomeister of Troll Town wrote:
Citizen R, of course, is the exception.

There are plenty of exceptions, mostly folks that understand anyone with power over you only cares about your well being if they fear screwing with you too much. Whether that means votes or guillotine, they must have some fear. If they know they are safe, know they will get votes from the mindlessly party loyal they will serve none but themselves.


Andrew R wrote:
yellowdingo wrote:
NYC banned the sale of big soft drinks in restaurants only - where does that put us? Ascending or in freefall?
A nation mostly of idiots led by idiots

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This is a repeal of the FAT TAX. Fat people buy sugary drinks for absolutely no
reason than to give profits to the corporations.

Very Republican.

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From what I've seen, we're currently in one hell of a decline.

And I'd rather be living in an Ascendency for that same reason.


Icyshadow wrote:

From what I've seen, we're currently in one hell of a decline.

And I'd rather be living in an Ascendency for that same reason.

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No way. We are going up and up faster than ever.

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Have you seen the movie "The Road" or read the book. The one about the
father and boy at the end of the world?

I think the Earth was hit by a meteorite. I don't think it was a nuclear
attack, because there is no radiation poisoning.

Anyways, eating other people is scary. So, I don't want to live in the
decline of a civilization.

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Acquisitives

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Decline. Roller coasters are more fun going down, right?

Dark Archive

Just as long as I am able to rule as Count Gruumash of New England. Anyone messes with that then we will have a problem. I am looking at you goblin stay in line or else.

Dark Archive

I want Pennsylvania, especially Philadelphia! Then I want nuclear weapon. Goblin love green things and big booms.

Dark Archive

You Are welcome to the city of brotherly love. As for nuclear weapons ... well not so sure that is a great idea we will have to think on that one. Maybe if a I has a functional Star Wars system to prevent those things from hitting me.


[Shakes his fist at Count Gruumash. the Wicked]

Dark Archive

Ah Comrade Anklebiter come back for your old job? I have been saving it for you. As well as your uniform ... the ladies always loved you in that and I sold ooddles of white wine spritzers. Come on back I will even give you a raise 50% of what I paid you before.


How much is 50% of nothing, you slave-driving wannabe-plutocrat?


I'm going to go watch the Caligula episodes of I, Claudius to remind me of why I hate Count Gruumash. the Foul-Smelling.


As a classicist I like to draw comparisons between ancient examples and present society as much as the next guy, or possibly way more than the next guy. However, rise and decline comparisons are a bit problematic because progress exists in a much more complex manner than it once did.

Rome's decline, to take my obviously favorite example, happened in an era when there was a baseline standard that was fairly stagnant and unchanging. Standards rose for a while, then collapsed back to similar levels as they had been before. A fairly simple thing when it comes down to it. Rome's collapse is measurable compared to objective standards as well as relative to other parts of the world.

It's a lot more difficult to draw a direct analogy to the modern world where baseline standards are themselves advancing, and a "decline" may be seen when one region is simply not advancing as quickly as another, rather than objectively collapsing.

So I guess it depends what sort of decline we are talking about. Would I have preferred to live in Russia as the USSR lurched towards and through its collapse? Not really. Would I rather live in the America of the twenty-first century rather than the nineteenth, even though developing regions are forecast to overtake America in growth of power and economy this century? Unless we start going through a genuine societal collapse rather than a relative eclipsing, then yes, definitely. Would I rather have lived in the UK of the later 20th century than the UK of the Age of Sail? Again, definitely.


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As I said earlier, I believe, I'd rather live near the peak than near the bottom. The direction of the movement isn't as important.


As I said earlier, I believe, ORGY!!!!

It's weird how Caligula is so on-topic.


It is my considered opinion that we are all in an era of both.

A new consciouness is arising, as the old, antiquated ways of naked self-interest are slowly sliding into irrelevance.

Our children's children will inhabit a world we would hardly recognize.


It depends on what sort of decline you're talking about.

Battling over scarce resources in a blasted wasteland before facing the Thunderdome? Pass.

Wallowing in decadent orgies via holodecks and sexbots while civilization slowly fades away to nothing? Sign me up.


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A highly regarded expert wrote:
Our children's children will inhabit a world we would hardly recognize.

That would be true rather it is a utopia or a wasteland battling for resouces.

As it has always been true.

Personaly there is no Ascendency or a decline...there is only Change.

Dark Archive

Comrade Anklebiter wrote:
How much is 50% of nothing, you slave-driving wannabe-plutocrat?

"Come now, I gave you something. A uniform to wear and a meals everyday and discounted living space plus I am pretty certian I paid you something. I will need to double check with the accountants but wasn't it around $ 1.35 or so?

I mean it was pretty good living you were with all your friends and family living under one roof, what could be better?

I am not certain I am a wannabe plutocrat, I am quite certain I am a plutocrat and a successful one at that.

Come on back into the fold my little friend it can be like it was before.


John Kretzer wrote:
A highly regarded expert wrote:
Our children's children will inhabit a world we would hardly recognize.

That would be true rather it is a utopia or a wasteland battling for resouces.

As it has always been true.

Personaly there is no Ascendency or a decline...there is only Change.

I agree. I simply think that with the abundance of information so easily available, and so few bars to it in most of the world, our evolution will be more positive than negative, environmental issues aside.


I hope all the bees don't die, because then we will spiral into a decline without honey.


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After a period of observation, I have changed my inclination -- I now
believe we are in a long period of Ascendency. Our civilization will
spread outward to other planets (and moons) in our solar system.

We will be a Type I Civilization!

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Grand Magus wrote:

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After a period of observation, I have changed my inclination -- I now
believe we are in a long period of Ascendency. Our civilization will
spread outward to other planets (and moons) in our solar system.

We will be a Type I Civilization!

.

I think we will run out of gas before we ever make it back to the moon.

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Electric Wizard wrote:
Grand Magus wrote:

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After a period of observation, I have changed my inclination -- I now
believe we are in a long period of Ascendency. Our civilization will
spread outward to other planets (and moons) in our solar system.

We will be a Type I Civilization!

I think we will run out of gas before we ever make it back to the moon.

Tensor, I think your sock-puppets are confused.


Orfamay Quest wrote:

I think we will run out of gas before we ever make it back to the moon.

I think your cock-puppets are confused.

No cock-puppet, aliases. A very important distinction.

Anyways... why is there confusion.

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There are 7 factors for a civilization to be classified as 'Ascending'.


In general, I would rather live in the ascendancy. The reforms and social advancements during that period tend to be far more permanent and long-lasting; declines generally see some very big reforms, right before everything goes wrong and those reforms are washed away.

So if we're living in a decline, that's pretty much bad news for way, way too many people just now beginning to see increasing equality.


Guess what everybody, you are currently living in a Decline.


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Which ever one has the most debauchery :-)


Electric Wizard wrote:
Guess what everybody, you are currently living in a Decline.

+1, unfortunately.


the 2nd derivative is negative too

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
A highly regarded expert wrote:
John Kretzer wrote:
A highly regarded expert wrote:
Our children's children will inhabit a world we would hardly recognize.

That would be true rather it is a utopia or a wasteland battling for resouces.

As it has always been true.

Personaly there is no Ascendency or a decline...there is only Change.

I agree. I simply think that with the abundance of information so easily available, and so few bars to it in most of the world, our evolution will be more positive than negative, environmental issues aside.

I used to think that way, however the volume of information is being drowned out by an increasing amount of noise and nonsense. The Internet spreads ignorance, and fanaticism in a far greater rate than it does understanding.


Ah yes, our good friend Tensor:-)

Your elementary school is out already, honestly I'm surprised you didn't try resurrecting the "you're a piece of shit unless you're worth a million dollars" thread :-)

Good stuff, keep it up junior, you'll get there someday :-)


Grand Magus wrote:


I would like to live in its decline, so that I can ride around on a motorcycle fighting for gasoline and energy.

Grarr!

I'm still on board with this opinion.


Artanthos wrote:
Give me 10,000 years of youth and good health so I can watch both ascension and decline with indifference.

Some smart guy in a robot-wheelchair said we have 1,000 years.

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