Help Needed: Will-o-Wisp Swarm


Advice


So, I've been trying to think of the best way to make a swarm of will-o-wisps.

Since they're small size, you could easily fit 8 of them in a 5 foot cube. So, a gargantuan sized swarm, which is roughly 20x20x20 could contain 512 of them. Let's say 500 and imagine they form a 10 foot radius sphere (not that it really matters).

I've looked at the 3.5 mob template as well as various templates like the creature swarm from the Advanced Bestiary, but they don't quite do what I want them to. I'm thinking that I may have to create a creature from scratch but I was hoping people on here could help me out or point me in the direction of something more along my line of thinking. If anyone wants to take a stab at producing a stat-block, that would be greatly appreciated.

At first glance, I'd imagine such a creature would have CR somewhere in the low to mid teens (or at least, that's where I want it for my game).

All ideas welcome.


Here's my first attempt. It's basically a single will-o-wisp scaled up to gargantuan size and given swarm traits. I also modified a couple abilities to make it feel a bit more like what I'm imagining.

Spoiler:

Will-o-Wisp Swarm (CR 14)
CE Gargantuan Abberation Swarm

Init +10; Senses Darkvision 60'

AC 25, touch 25, flat-footed 16 (+12 deflection, +6 Dex, +1 dodge, -4 size)
hp 230 (20d8+140)
Fort +17, Ref +16, Will +17
Defensive Abilities: Flickering Lights; Immune Magic

Speed: fly 30' (average)
Melee: swarm (5d8 electricity + distraction)

STR 29, DEX 23, CON 24, INT 15, WIS 16, CHA 14
BAB +15; CMB +28, CMD 44
Feats: Ability Focus (Aura of Fear), Alertness, Blind Fight, Dodge, Improved Initiative, Mobility, Weapon Finesse,(+3 others)

Special:

Aura of Fear: DC 24 will save or be shaken within 30 feet.

Distraction: DC 27 fort save or nauseated for 1 round.

Feed on Fear: While within 20 feet of a dying creature or a creature suffering from a fear effect, this creature gains fast healing 10.

Flickering Lights: Gains 20% concealment against all creatures that cannot see invisible.

Immunity to Magic: Immune to all spells which allow spell resistance.

Preferred Form: Can fit through any space which a small creature could move through but always forms a 10 foot radius sphere when not obstructed.

Swarm Traits: (Including half damage from weapons)

At this point, I still have some things I need to sort out including its skills and choosing three more feats. I'm a little worried about balance though. Between the immunity to magic, swarm traits, fast healing and concealment, it's incredibly hard to hurt. On the other hand, since its only offense is electricity damage, any sort of elemental resistance makes it almost impossible for it to hurt some foes.

I was toying with the idea that it may also do 1d4 wisdom damage with its swarm attack (save for half) or perhaps split up its damage so that it is partly non-typed like (2d6 + 4d8 electricity).

Anyone have suggestions?


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

Just want to point out:

Quote:


A swarm is a collection of Fine,
Diminutive, or Tiny creatures...

So a Will-o-wisp can't be made into a swarm.

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

You might want to use a smaller version of the Will O'Wisp as the base creature of the swarm, and then just use regular swarm rules, maybe with some additional electricity damage, a Will Save to avoid the 1d4 Wisdom drain, and maybe a special hypnotism or fascination effect from the flickering lights from a bunch of different will o'wisps.

Unless you are trying to use the Mob rules instead of the Swarm rules. I think 3.5 had rules for mobs in its Urban Adventures splat book or something. It was good for hordes of zombies, a mob of angry villagers, a stampede of cattle, etc.


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O.O

/Remembers nearly getting killed by Will O wisp....

/Remembers nearly dying (repeatedly) by swarms of rats/leeches/bugs...

/Thinks of a SWARM of Will O Wisps...

/Crawls under bed and hides....


Matt Stich wrote:

Just want to point out:

Quote:


A swarm is a collection of Fine,
Diminutive, or Tiny creatures...
So a Will-o-wisp can't be made into a swarm.

This will-o-wisp swarm begs to differ:

Will-o'-wisp Swarm
CR 6; XP 2,400
CE Tiny aberration (air, swarm)
Init +15; Senses darkvision 60 ft.; Perception +17

DEFENSE
AC 29, touch 29, flat-footed 17; (+5 deflection, +11 Dex, +1 dodge, +2 size)
hp 22 (9d8-18)
Fort +1, Ref +14, Will +9
Defensive Abilities half damage from slashing and piercing weapons, natural invisibility, swarm traits; Immune magic

OFFENSE
Speed fly 50 ft. (perfect)
Melee swarm (2d6 electricity)
Special Attacks distraction (Fort DC 12)
Space 10 ft.; Reach 0 ft.

STATISTICS
Str 1, Dex 33, Con 6, Int 15, Wis 16, Cha 14
Base Atk +6; CMB --; CMD --
Feats Alertness, Blind-Fight, Dodge, Improved Initiative, Skill Focus (Intimidate)
Skills Acrobatics +23, Bluff +11, Fly +33, Intimidate +17, Perception +17, Stealth +27
Languages Aklo, Common
SQ feed on fear, swarm traits

SPECIAL ABILITIES
Feed on Fear (Su): Any time a will-o'-wisp is within 15 feet of a dying creature or creature subject to a fear effect, it gains fast healing 5.

Immunity to Magic (Ex): Will-o'-wisps are immune to all spells and spell-like abilities that allow spell resistance, except magic missile and maze.

Natural Invisibility (Ex): Will-o'-wisps have the ability to extinguish their natural glow as a move action, effectively becoming invisible, as per the spell.

ECOLOGY
Environment any swamp
Organization solitary, pair, or string (3–4)
Treasure incidental


Well, that's certainly an interesting take on the matter. I think for my purposes, though, I'd prefer a gargantuan sized swarm formed of small sized creatures.

I was thinking that one way I could make this a more rounded creature would be to give it a standard melee attack on top of its normal swarm attack. Perhaps limiting it to a 10 foot reach despite the swarm being gargantuan in size.

Melee:
Shock +24 touch (4d8 electricity)
Swarm (2d8 + 2d8 electricity + madness + distraction)

Madness: 1d4 wisdom damage, DC 22 will save negates. Creatures reduced to 0 wisdom from madness suffer permanent insanity in the form of paranoid schizophrenia (counts as a fear effect).

Then, for the three missing feats I would take combat reflexes, vital strike and improved vital strike.

Is this thing too tough for CR14?


Hard to say.

But considerung a single wisp has 40 HP, how much would a gargantuan swarm have? 400?

About Marks suggestion:
Bestiary says a swarm of tiny things consist of roughly 300 creatures.

Soo 300 tiny (young?) wisps have half the hitpoints of a single adult wisp? Also swarms of tiny creatures take half damage from slashing/piercing attacks so at CR 6 this swarm would be a one round wonder against any decent Fighter.

Seems cheesy.


Would magic missile still work on a Will-o'-wisp Swarm?


Tem wrote:
I'd prefer a gargantuan sized swarm formed of small sized creatures.

As a tangent: would you allow Small PCs to form a "swarm"? 'cause You may be opening a can of worms here...

Grand Lodge

If you own the Reign of Winter AP, you might find something useful...

Spoiler:
They add a creature mechanic called 'Troop' that is designed to represent a 'swarm' of non-swarming creatures, in the case of RoW, human soldiers. This may or may not inspire a way to represent what you are seeking.


There's also the third-party Zombie Horde which might be worth looking into (hope nobody sniped me to this one...).

@fictionfan: nope, magic missile wouldn't work, since each missile needs to be assigned an individual target, and swarms (and hordes), despite acting as a single creature, are immune to any effect that targets specific undividuals in this respect. IIRC that is.

Lantern Lodge

Spes Magna Mark wrote:

This will-o-wisp swarm begs to differ:

Will-o'-wisp Swarm
CR 6; XP 2,400
CE Tiny aberration (air, swarm)
Init +15; Senses darkvision 60 ft.; Perception +17

...

I'm guessing at the source of this being the "Book Of Beasts: Legendary Foes" by Jon Brazer Enterprises. If so, this comes from a third-party product, and even they seem to have used some sort of TINY will-o-wisp to make their swarm, so it doesn't appear to be made up of standard will-o-wisps.

RPG Superstar 2015 Top 8

Tem wrote:

So, I've been trying to think of the best way to make a swarm of will-o-wisps.

Since they're small size, you could easily fit 8 of them in a 5 foot cube. So, a gargantuan sized swarm, which is roughly 20x20x20 could contain 512 of them. Let's say 500 and imagine they form a 10 foot radius sphere (not that it really matters).

I've looked at the 3.5 mob template as well as various templates like the creature swarm from the Advanced Bestiary, but they don't quite do what I want them to. I'm thinking that I may have to create a creature from scratch but I was hoping people on here could help me out or point me in the direction of something more along my line of thinking. If anyone wants to take a stab at producing a stat-block, that would be greatly appreciated.

At first glance, I'd imagine such a creature would have CR somewhere in the low to mid teens (or at least, that's where I want it for my game).

All ideas welcome.

My experience with mobs (from 3.5) and troops (from reign of winter) is that they really irritate my players, who feel with some justification that they should be able to target the mob/troops individual components.

I would either make it a swarm of tiny will-o-wisps (give it however many hit dice you want), and then use 4 swarms to make it really big (+2 CR for that, plan that into how tough you make your swarm), or make a custom monster that just uses regular monster rules but is described as being a swarm of will-o-wisps that have become linked the dark, negative energies of their locale.

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