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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 16, 2012 Top 32 , Marathon Voter 2013, Marathon Voter 2014, Dedicated Voter 2015

mdt wrote:
Epic Meepo wrote:
Actually, the level adjustment is stated in the last line of the "Creating a Vampire" section of the Vampire template.
Uhm, no it doesn't.

Um, yes it does.

Level adjustment, which the poster was complaining about, is a 3.5 rule, not a Pathfinder rule. A quick check of the 3.5 SRD reveals the level adjustment of a vampire, right there where I said it was.

Liberty's Edge Dedicated Voter 2014

Epic Meepo wrote:

Um, yes it does.

Level adjustment, which the poster was complaining about, is a 3.5 rule, not a Pathfinder rule. A quick check of the 3.5 SRD reveals the level adjustment of a vampire, right there where I said it was.

So your argument is basically that I used a 3.5 term? Pathfinder doesn't actually have a term for it so what would you like me to call it? In 3.5 (a ruleset I am not currently using or discussing), a vampire my well have a level adjustment of 8, but in pathfinder (the ruleset we are both using and discussing)

Bestiary 1, page 314 wrote:

If you are including a single monster character in a group of standard characters, make sure the group is of

a level that is at least as high as the monster’s CR. Treat the monster’s CR as class levels when determining the monster PC’s overall levels. For example, in a group of 6th-level characters, a minotaur (CR 4) would possess 2 levels of a core class, such as barbarian.

ie <whatever term we are using instead of "level adjustment"> = CR

and
Bestiary 1, page 270 wrote:

Creating a Vampire

“Vampire” is an acquired template that can be added to any living creature with 5 or more Hit Dice (referred to hereafter as the base creature). Most vampires were once humanoids, fey, or monstrous humanoids. A vampire uses the base creature’s stats and abilities except as noted here.
CR: Same as the base creature + 2.

Therefor a Vampire Template Human is CR 2.33. ie. A Vampire character has a <insert whatever term you want me to use instead of "level adjustment" here> of 2. Now please stop bringing 3.5 rules into a pathfinder discussion

mdt wrote:
The White wrote:
The weaknesses aren't that huge for our party

Which means that the CR should be adjusted for a vampire in your campaign then, due to the world deviating from the normal. A vampire is more powerful in your world than in other worlds. It's as if you took a vampire out of a normal world and stuck him in a world where it's an eternally dark desert.

Since the vampire doesn't have to worry about good creatures, daylight spells, or daylight itself, that should boost the CR by at least 2 or 3 levels. You shouldn't be surprised that he's dominating, you've taken the two biggest drawbacks and thrown them away.

No offense, but it's sort of like complaining that Paladin's are overpowered in a campaign where every enemy is evil and takes extra damage from good creatures.

I'm not saying that he isn't a bit more powerful than in a normal campaign but look at hat the vamp can do.

First. +18 stats. Even taking into account that you eliminate Con as a stat and assuming that that is only bad, that is a LOT of stat boost given that anything more than +4 is getting better than average. Given that most people play 20 point buy, if you know that you are playing a vamp, that's an entire stat you can ignore or drop to 7 for extra points. By playing a Vamp you are basically saying "I get 4 more points that everyone else AND I only have to distribute those points among 5 stats AND I get a total of +18 to those" How about I have this stat lineup
Str7
Dex17
Con7
Int10
Wis8
Cha18
Looks pretty bad, right?
Apply Vampire
Str13
Dex21
Con-
Int12
Wis10
Cha22
Playing a Sorc. Oh, and see that huge Charisma, yea, that's where I get my HP as well
Now tack on
DR10/silver has got to be worth
Fast healing 5
2 negative levels once per round
+6 natural AC
+8 on 4 different skills
7 bonus feats
Dominate Person (5th level spell) as a standard action unlimited times per day
Beast Shape 2 (4th level spell) unlimited times per day
Permanent Spider Climb (2nd level spell affected by a 5th level)
+4 to save against the Cleric's special ability (one of the few things that can harm you)
Complete immunity to: Death effects, disease, mind-effecting, paralysis, poison, sleep, stun, anything that requires a fort save, ability drain, energy drain, any penalty to the physical stats, fatigue, exhaustion and death from massive damage (ie. most of the most dangerous things adventurers encounter)
Once per day summon of multiple swarms or wolves that last for an hour
The ability to create multiple minions nearly as powerful as the first one
If you die within 9 miles of your (mobile) home, you return to life an hour later

Now for the weakness
Can't go within 5 feet of gralic, holy symbols or mirrors as long as someone is pointing them at you by using up their standard action unless you make a will save. "Oh, you're holding up a holy symbol? OK, I'll just go chew on your friends while you waste half your turn"
Can't enter a private home. "OK, run into your home, I'll either burn it down or go do something else while you hide"
Direct sunlight. OK, this one actually kinda sucks but Vampires have been working out how to deal with this forever. It needs to actually touch them. Desert clothes almost completely eliminates this threat or you get a party that is happy to go out at night and you carry a blanket to hide from the occasional sunlight spell.
Fully submerged in running water. When was the last time this was an issue? Not being in a retarded party eliminates this threat
Good creatures out to get you... no worse than the usual group of adventurers with all the evil creatures out to get them.

Pretty sure that even in a more standard campaign setting, the bonuses outweigh the penalties by more than 2 class levels. Yes, it probably is a bit more powerful in our setting than your setting but it is still more powerful than it should be for that CR adjustment. I'm not complaining about the power of Vampires, they should be fairly epic monsters, I'm just saying that maybe Paizo needs to look at how powerful the monster races are compared to the standard ones. The Vampire isn't the only broken one, just the one I have noticed.
What is more powerful
+ 2 stats (two +2, one -2)
120' Darkvision
Spell res 6 + level
+2 Perception
Immune to sleep
+2 vs enchantments
Can't poison yourself
3 Once per day spells ranging from level 1 to 3
Racial proficiency with hand crossbow, rapier and shortsword
Blinded by bright light for one round and the dazzled

or

+8 stats (one +4, three +2 one -2)
120' Darkvision
Spell res 11 + level
5 infinite use spells ranging from 1st to 3rd level spells, permanent detect magic and 3 once per day spells also ranging fro 1st to 3rd
+2 Perception
Immune to sleep
+2 vs enchantments
Can't poison yourself
Racial proficiency with hand crossbow, rapier and shortsword
Blinded by bright light for one round and the dazzled

Pretty obvious that the second one is significantly better. Maybe 1 or 2 level adjustments better? Nope, those are the stats for Drow Characters and Drow Noble Characters respectively.

idwraith wrote:


So if you look at a Drow Noble or a Snirfneblin who are CR = Level then they're (rule of thumb) 2 levels higher than a normal player race.

Unfortunately, according to the book

"Drow are defined by their class levels—they do not possess racial Hit Dice."
"Drow nobles are defined by their class levels—they do not possess racial Hit Dice"
Neither of them have level adjustments yet one has an extra 6 stat points, 5 SR, All the first one's once per day spells as unlimited spells and more once per day spells. There is no reason to ever play a Drow when the Drow Noble is simply better in every way and has no extra down sides, there should never be a case where one race is better in every way than another without the better race having a higher level adjustment. It needs to be looked at. You can argue my Vampire points as just being specific to my setting or you can try to claim that the downsides are worse than I have said but the Drow vs Drow Noble problem is made of solid facts and 0% opinion if that doesn't convince you that level adjustments need to be revamped then there probably isn't anything I can say to prove my point so this will likely be my last major post on this topic unless someone comes up with a very good counter.

TL:DR
Level adjustment in pathfinder is the monster's CR
Vampire Template is CR 2 = level adjustment 2
Vampire might be more powerful in my campaign than others but I feel they still need more than 2 level adjustments
Neither Drow nor Drow Noble are deemed in the rules to have any value as a race beyond standard races and have 0 level adjustment even though the Noble is clearly more powerful
Paizo should do something about that in the book they are making about advanced races

Dark Archive

Hey "The White", mdt has a point, in that your GM has basically eliminated all the vampires weaknesses, without raising the vampire's CR to match.

Also, Epic Meepo is right: There are no Level Adjust Rules in the bestiary. That CR Adjustment is only the adjustment for if you're fighting *against* said vampire, in a normal world where his weaknesses apply. The general approach taken in the Bestiary is if you have a character using a strong monster race, all the characters should have equally strong monster races, before class levels. There haven't been rules for straight up "Playable" vampires since pathfinder came out.

Personally, I don't think I'd ever give the Vampire template to a player. Frankly its overpowered, and "Vampire" has been overpowered since D&D 3.0.

Any time I want to use vampires in a game where one of the PCs might actually become one, I use a custom vampire template. I give them a *roughly* CR+0 vampire template (in your world it would probably still be a +1 or +2) and then I have them take levels in Vampire if they want the rest of the abilities.


Pathfinder Maps, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Darkholme wrote:


Also, Epic Meepo is right: There are no Level Adjust Rules in the bestiary. That CR Adjustment is only the adjustment for if you're fighting *against* said vampire, in a normal world where his weaknesses apply. The general approach taken in the Bestiary is if you have a character using a strong monster race, all the characters should have equally strong monster races, before class levels. There haven't been rules for straight up "Playable" vampires since pathfinder came out.

I still don't quite agree with this statement. I think it's arguing over semantics. No, the term 'level adjust' is not used in PF. However, if you check the Bestiary you'll find 'Monsters as PCs' as a section, and within it, it details a method of adjusting level based on CR. However, the rules for that really really don't work well with templates. Templates don't adjust CR accurately, they're sort of like band-aid rule of thumb adjustment. The rules REALLY only work with monsters that are less than CR 5 (which a vampire will never, ever be) and have been built from the ground up as monsters, not things with templates tacked on.

Dark Archive

mdt wrote:
Templates don't adjust CR accurately, they're sort of like band-aid rule of thumb adjustment. The rules REALLY only work with monsters that are less than CR 5 (which a vampire will never, ever be) and have been built from the ground up as monsters, not things with templates tacked on.

I can see what you're saying, and I haven't tested it with the monsters over CR 5.

I *WILL* say that there's no way I would (as a GM) ever give *THAT* vampire template to a player. It's simply too swingy. Odds are they'll be way stronger than the rest of the group, but I'm really uncertain as to how much. It would be more than 2 levels at the low levels, and potentially 2 levels might be about right at the high end. even then, it would probably take more than a 2 level difference.

Here's the vampire template I came up with a long time ago. It's less ridiculous than giving the whole template to someone, though iirc the vampire powers as you level up are still a bit too powerful.

http://www.enworld.org/forum/attachments/d-d-legacy-discussion/42159d125971 1376-playable-vampire-level-0-up-vampire.pdf

Liberty's Edge Dedicated Voter 2014

I'm not saying that mdt was wrong, I agree that the Vampire is stronger in our campaign than in a normal one but my point was that even in a normal setting, that template based, on the rules as written, needs to have a higher CR adjustment

Darkholme wrote:
Personally, I don't think I'd ever give the Vampire template to a player. Frankly its overpowered,

It sounds like you agree with my point and I agree with you, as a DM I would not have allowed the Vampire at all.

Like mdt said, the Template and Monsters as Characters system is a bit slapdash, it works well enough for monsters with a bit of on-the-fly tweaking but out this experience with the Vampire and then checking the other races I have come to the conclusion that it needs a total re-work for PCs. It is one of the few things that I feel 3.5 did better (level adjustment 8 seems better than CR adjustment 2 for example)

Also, your link just takes me to http://www.enworld.org/forum/ rather than the pdf


Frankly the Dhamphir race from the Bestiary 2 is a much more balanced (for player use) vampire-style character.


Pathfinder Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

Back on topic Please,
this is a wish list thread, not a "Vampires are this" thread.


I would like to see a revised take on Illumians. I always liked the background but felt they could have deserved more.

RPG Superstar 2009 Top 16, 2012 Top 32 , Marathon Voter 2013, Marathon Voter 2014, Dedicated Voter 2015

mdt wrote:
I think it's arguing over semantics.

I actually wasn't trying to argue anything. I really did misunderstand what system was being used based on the terminology being used.


Pathfinder Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

I hope that they make heritor feats (like the abyssal heritor feats, but cover more races refer to first post).


Pathfinder Maps, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Epic Meepo wrote:
mdt wrote:
I think it's arguing over semantics.
I actually wasn't trying to argue anything. I really did misunderstand what system was being used based on the terminology being used.

Ah, in that case, I withdraw the observation.


ulgulanoth wrote:
well i'd really like playable 0HD skeletons of some sort (though i'm sure this is very unlikely) and possibly something to replace the Goliaths from 3.5 with...

I just let my players use skeleton champion without a base race (usually they are ancient enough that the base race no longer matters)

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32 , Dedicated Voter 2013, Star Voter 2014, Star Voter 2015

Bullette Point wrote:
I would like to see a revised take on Illumians. I always liked the background but felt they could have deserved more.

Yeah, they were neat. They can half that half-elf ability where you get 2 favored classes.

Dark Archive

The White wrote:
Also, your link just takes me to http://www.enworld.org/forum/ rather than the pdf

My bad: Here's a link to the thread:

But on the topic of this: Reasonably playable templaes would be something nice that we don't have right now.

Silver Crusade Star Voter 2014

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules Subscriber
Bullette Point wrote:
I would like to see a revised take on Illumians. I always liked the background but felt they could have deserved more.

+10

Though some of their schtick would need to change to fit PF. Paizo can't touch them since they're closed content, but hopefully the race creation rules will have some nice solutions handy for them. And Thri-kreen. And asherati. And bariaur. And....

Dark Archive

Mikaze wrote:
Bullette Point wrote:
I would like to see a revised take on Illumians. I always liked the background but felt they could have deserved more.

+10

Though some of their schtick would need to change to fit PF. Paizo can't touch them since they're closed content, but hopefully the race creation rules will have some nice solutions handy for them. And Thri-kreen. And asherati. And bariaur. And....

You know, I still use my 3.5 monster manuals for what you just pointed out. Paizo may not be able to print them, but by god I still want to include beholders and illithids and yugoloths and thri kreen and slaadi and gith in my campaigns. That and my Forgotten Realms Setting Books.

But they're off-limits for Paizo, so none of that stuff is going to make it into bestiary 3.

But it would be nice if they could include any of the 3.x monsters that are decent that *Aren't* off-limits.

There was alot of material in Green Ronin's Book of Fiends 1 and 2 that were really spectacular, and all of those monsters are OGC. I'd like to see some of them get updated so I dont have to keep using my 3.0 copy and updating monsters as I use them (I particularly like the Soulkeeper). lol.

[Edit:! Oh! Erik Mona wrote Armies of the Abyss! Erik! I want you to update your monsters!]


Based on discussion in another thread:

I too would really love to see Aasimar and Tiefling as templates applicable to any PC race. Why should humans get all the fun? Plus, it would reduce the number of PC-race/hint-of-outsider-race combos which had turned up by late 3.x.

Sczarni

I would like a revised Racial heritage feat for all races not just humans.

Dark Archive

northbrb wrote:
I would like a revised Racial heritage feat for all races not just humans.

Why? That just diminishes the diversity of the races.

Dark Archive

Bellona wrote:

Based on discussion in another thread:

I too would really love to see Aasimar and Tiefling as templates applicable to any PC race. Why should humans get all the fun? Plus, it would reduce the number of PC-race/hint-of-outsider-race combos which had turned up by late 3.x.

Humans and Aasimars have no common traits. If you want to play an elven aasimar, just describe him as one, no need for a template.

Sczarni

Jadeite wrote:
northbrb wrote:
I would like a revised Racial heritage feat for all races not just humans.
Why? That just diminishes the diversity of the races.

I disagree i think it opens up diversity by allowing a statistical representation of different race concepts through a single feat.

Silver Crusade Star Voter 2014

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules Subscriber
northbrb wrote:
Jadeite wrote:
northbrb wrote:
I would like a revised Racial heritage feat for all races not just humans.
Why? That just diminishes the diversity of the races.
I disagree i think it opens up diversity by allowing a statistical representation of different race concepts through a single feat.

Ha, now I'm reminded of /tg/'s Sandwich Stoutaxe and Goldentusk.

Silver Crusade Star Voter 2014

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules Subscriber
Darkholme wrote:
Mikaze wrote:
Bullette Point wrote:
I would like to see a revised take on Illumians. I always liked the background but felt they could have deserved more.

+10

Though some of their schtick would need to change to fit PF. Paizo can't touch them since they're closed content, but hopefully the race creation rules will have some nice solutions handy for them. And Thri-kreen. And asherati. And bariaur. And....

You know, I still use my 3.5 monster manuals for what you just pointed out. Paizo may not be able to print them, but by god I still want to include beholders and illithids and yugoloths and thri kreen and slaadi and gith in my campaigns. That and my Forgotten Realms Setting Books.

But they're off-limits for Paizo, so none of that stuff is going to make it into bestiary 3.

Yep, that's why I'm really hankerin' for them race-makin' rules. :)

And for serious on Armies of the Abyss/Book of Fiends! Erik, can't you bend someone's arm until we get an update? Pleeeeeease?

Dark Archive

I did a conversion for one of the monsters from legions yesterday.
only downside... it summons another baatezu/devil, one that hasn't been converted. lol. only had time for one yesterday. I'll probably make the other one just cause its mentioned though.

http://paizo.com/paizo/messageboards/paizoPublishing/pathfinder/pathfinderR PG/conversions/demonAndDevilConversionsOGC&page=1#1

Nothing official, but to show you that theres some great stuff in there.


Pathfinder Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Companion Subscriber
Jadeite wrote:
northbrb wrote:
I would like a revised Racial heritage feat for all races not just humans.
Why? That just diminishes the diversity of the races.

It will depend on how it is made and if and how they interact with other feats.


Pathfinder Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Companion Subscriber
Jadeite wrote:
Bellona wrote:

Based on discussion in another thread:

I too would really love to see Aasimar and Tiefling as templates applicable to any PC race. Why should humans get all the fun? Plus, it would reduce the number of PC-race/hint-of-outsider-race combos which had turned up by late 3.x.

Humans and Aasimars have no common traits. If you want to play an elven aasimar, just describe him as one, no need for a template.

I can both disagree and agree with that.

agree: assimar is standard and below CR1
disagree: keep base race traits and add on outsider-like abilities, but raise CR.

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32 , Dedicated Voter 2013, Star Voter 2014, Star Voter 2015

I want some Conan-esque races: giants, carnivorous apemen, snake-men (possibly associated with naga), ghoul-men, and the like.


Maybe the ability to spend your favorite class bonus points on something exclusive to the race your playing regardless of class. Like maybe +1/6 bonus feat for humans or something along those lines. (Probably a bad example, most human players would only buy that)

Another idea is to use the same points to buy new class features, like a once per day spell for elves or something.

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32 , Dedicated Voter 2013, Star Voter 2014, Star Voter 2015

Snopaws wrote:

Maybe the ability to spend your favorite class bonus points on something exclusive to the race your playing regardless of class. Like maybe +1/6 bonus feat for humans or something along those lines. (Probably a bad example, most human players would only buy that)

Another idea is to use the same points to buy new class features, like a once per day spell for elves or something.

Maybe prepare +1/2 level of extra spells per day? Or cast +1/2 level of extra spells per day? (For a gnome, must be illusion, etc.)???


SmiloDan wrote:
I want some Conan-esque races: giants, carnivorous apemen, snake-men (possibly associated with naga), ghoul-men, and the like.

There are some aggressive primate-humanoids (although I think they're more baboon than ape) in one of the APs, IIRC. And there are serpentfolk in B2 (unless you're thinking more along the lines of snake'taur-type naga).


Pathfinder Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

A few new racial half or touched templates (that cover only the most popular species, of a given subtype or type and are reasonable).


Pathfinder Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

Anyone have anymore wishes?
We probably only have another 4 months at best for putting down our wishes, and say about 2 months for any chance of it being considered.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

Tengu in section 2 (probable anyway but just wanted to make sure it was said)

0HD lizardfolk in section 3

0HD dogfolk in section 3

0HD cat-type race in section 3

I think that covers it for me

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game, Tales Subscriber
Steven Purcell wrote:

Tengu in section 2 (probable anyway but just wanted to make sure it was said)

0HD lizardfolk in section 3

0HD dogfolk in section 3

0HD cat-type race in section 3

I think that covers it for me

+1 here for all of it... especially since James Jacobs has been so kind as to actually post really good PC lizardfolk online here before. I would kind of like a giant, a plant-type, and a living construct as well though...

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32 , Dedicated Voter 2013, Star Voter 2014, Star Voter 2015

A Tiefling-like Unseelie Court Sidhe. With 101 different variations, like the Planewalkers Handbook had for 2nd Edition Tieflings in the old Planescape campaign.

I think a generic animal-headed humanoid might be cool, with different abilities for different animal-head types. Kind of like how shifters in the Eberron campaign had different shifting variants (Razorclaw, Cliffclimber, Beasthide, and the like). Maybe +2 Wisdom, -2 Intelligence, and a variable +2 to a physical ability score dependent on the animal head.

Cathead might get +2 Dex, darkvision and a bite, doghead might get +2 Con, scent and a bite, bullhead might get +2 Str, gore and a big bonus against getting lost, hawkhead might get +2 Dex, a bonus to Perception checks and a bite, squidhead might get +2 Dex, a mindblast, and brainsucking, lizardhead might get +2 Con, holdbreath, and a bite, froghead might get +2 Con, a croak attack, and a tongue attack, etc. etc.

Star Voter 2013, Star Voter 2014

Pathfinder Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Card Game, Companion, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
SmiloDan wrote:

squidhead might get +2 Dex, a mindblast, and brainsucking,

I would imagine there would be some special caveats here, something like

make a DC 20 SAN Check..er..Will Save to not attempt to devour 1d3 Player characters per round.

I apologize for this brief moment of indiscretion.


I want racial paragon style archetypes, maybe prestige classes. Allow me to make elfiest elf that ever elved.

More elven, dwarven, orcish, etc weapons. Ones that are available as martial weapons for those races. Equipment specific to those races too. Gnomish fireworks? Halfling pastries and crockery?


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
The White wrote:

Neither Drow nor Drow Noble are deemed in the rules to have any value as a race beyond standard races and have 0 level adjustment even though the Noble is clearly more powerful

Paizo should do something about that in the book they are making about advanced races

On the contray there is a differnce between drow Noble and Drow.

Drow Noble has a +1 CR and thus would cost a character playing one a level.

The drow Noble is a Clerc 3 and CR 3. If it was not for the +1 CR for drow Noble it would be CR2.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
SmiloDan wrote:
I want some Conan-esque races: giants, carnivorous apemen, snake-men (possibly associated with naga), ghoul-men, and the like.

Well for Snakemen you can use Serpent people from the Bestiary 2.


Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber

Forgive me, but I just can't help myself. I am obsessed with my Doppelgangers. I know I shouldn't, but I just can't get enough. I secretly play one in short campaigns. I love manipulators.


Ughbash wrote:
SmiloDan wrote:
I want some Conan-esque races: giants, carnivorous apemen, snake-men (possibly associated with naga), ghoul-men, and the like.
Well for Snakemen you can use Serpent people from the Bestiary 2.

I made a serpentfolk race for my homebrew setting, I think it came out alright. =3


Pathfinder Companion, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Anburaid wrote:
I want racial paragon style archetypes, maybe prestige classes. Allow me to make elfiest elf that ever elved.

I don't know about a universal archetype (how on earth could you balance that with disparities like the Fighter getting Weapon Training at 3rd level while the Druid gets ... Resist Nature's Lure) but I think that you might see archetypes to make the elfiest Ranger of the elfiest Wizard that ever elved.

Now, I know that Pathfinder loves their humans, but I REALLY hope there are no archetypes for humans in this regard. Yes, I am aware that they are good at doing everything, but that is exactly why they SHOULDN'T get anything nice in this case. First, making 20ish archetypes, one for each class, would eat up a HUGE section of the book that could be better spent elsewhere, and also, it doesn't make sense for humans to have their own fighting styles. You're not going to put Pathfinder ethnicies in this book (hopefully), so the human doesn't really have anything to distinguish it in terms of fluff. Jack of all trades, master of none is kind of the human schtick, and that would be compromised if they add Human archetypes.


Steven Purcell wrote:

Tengu in section 2 (probable anyway but just wanted to make sure it was said)

0HD lizardfolk in section 3

0HD dogfolk in section 3

0HD cat-type race in section 3

I think that covers it for me

Yes, please! (And yeah, I'd guess that tengu are probably already a shoo-in.)

SmiloDan wrote:
A Tiefling-like Unseelie Court Sidhe. With 101 different variations, like the Planewalkers Handbook had for 2nd Edition Tieflings in the old Planescape campaign.

Oh, heck to the yes.

Quote:
[...]squidhead might get +2 Dex, a mindblast, and brainsucking[...]

Icwutudidthar.

Snopaws wrote:
Ughbash wrote:
Well for Snakemen you can use Serpent people from the Bestiary 2.
I made a serpentfolk race for my homebrew setting, I think it came out alright. =3

Or somewhere in between: take serpentfolk as written, then nerf them a bit. (What I'd probably want to do is create something that could stand in as a yuan-ti expy without actually being one—vicious, urbane, reptilian schemers.)


Pathfinder Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

Playable Yuki-onna or half-yuki-onna.

*Wikipedia has a few stories of Yuki-onna becoming wives and having children.

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32 , Dedicated Voter 2013, Star Voter 2014, Star Voter 2015

Azure_Zero wrote:

Playable Yuki-onna or half-yuki-onna.

*Wikipedia has a few stories of Yuki-onna becoming wives and having children.

Wikipedia also has an article about what a Yuki-onna IS too! ;-)

(A ghostly snow woman that can blend in with snow (chameleon or Stealth bonus?), turn into a cloud of mist or snow (gaseous form? snowy Swarm form?), they can strike terror with their eyes (cause fear? Intimidate bonus?), and can be vampiric or succubus-like.)


is it already too late to ask for:
Zürich Gnomes - Money grabbing realists
Gold Dwarfs - Intelligent Entrepreneurs
Mongrels (if they are not closed content) - worst of every race but tough as a cockroach and charming as a rat.


Pathfinder Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Companion Subscriber
SmiloDan wrote:
Azure_Zero wrote:

Playable Yuki-onna or half-yuki-onna.

*Wikipedia has a few stories of Yuki-onna becoming wives and having children.

Wikipedia also has an article about what a Yuki-onna IS too! ;-)

(A ghostly snow woman that can blend in with snow (chameleon or Stealth bonus?), turn into a cloud of mist or snow (gaseous form? snowy Swarm form?), they can strike terror with their eyes (cause fear? Intimidate bonus?), and can be vampiric or succubus-like.)

but you have to make sure it is not to powerful, or it will be non playable.

Scarab Sages

Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Campaign Setting, Cards, Companion, Modules, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Random starting age tables for all the new classes and races. Also, the random height and weight table, and age category table.

I'd also like my aasimar to be as aawesome as possible, like the tiefling article in CoT.


Stark Enterprises VP wrote:
especially since James Jacobs has been so kind as to actually post really good PC lizardfolk online here before.

Woe wut?

Where? I wanna see this ASAP!

(sorry for the demanding tone, But my current attempts at Lizardfolk are Simple Giant Kobolds)

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