Opinions please:
My character in Jade Regent is a bladebound magus. Here's his general stat alignment:
STR 16
DEX 13
CON 14
INT 15
WIS 10
CHA 10
Wielding a longsword.
My traits are Childhood Crush (DC15 Cha check for +1 to all saves) and World Traveller (+1 to Diplomacy, Diplomacy as a class skill)
At 4th level, I'm putting my stat point into Int to make it a 16.
My feats:
1. Toughness
1b. Additional Traits (Magical Lineage [Shocking Grasp], Focused Mind)
3. Power Attack
3b. Alertness (while holding black blade)
Currently sitting on 3 arcane pool points.
Due to the nature of APs, I'm expecting a lot of on-site dungeon crawling in this campaign. I'm going for Enduring Blade arcana as a result. I also like Arcane Accuracy-- it makes my intensified shocking grasp full attacks a lot more poignant and likely to succeed on high priority targets.
At 6th, I'll have 2 (level) + 3 (int) arcane pool points.
At 9th, I'll have 3 (level) + 4 (int) + 2 (extra arcane pool) arcane pool points.
I'm thinking of taking Enduring Blade at 6, but I realized it'll use a lot of my daily allotment of points to give me 6 minutes of power up-- which might be 3 fights. Or I could just use 2 points to bring me through 2 fights, and have arcane accuracy for when I need it...
So, the question is: 1. should I take enduring blade at 6, or at 9? I'm heavily considering both and no one I've talked to has anything relevant to say so far, and
2. any advice?
1) I don't know anything about the AP, but in general having a high enhancement bonus on your weapon will also make your attacks more likely to succeed. Take the Enduring Blade.
Forsooth.
2) I don't care for your stats, I believe a higher strength and lower int will serve you better. And it seems to be a 21 point buy or did you roll these? Either way, I'd probably try and get an 18 strength. I take it you don't like dump stats?
14+2 = 5
13 = 314 = 5
15 = 7
10 = 0
10 = 0
20 point buy
I hate dump stats. This character isn't an absent-minded drooling idiot and he definitely is personable while not a social butterfly. A 7 Cha would make him uncouth and shy and a 7 Wis would make him unable to string his sentences together without losing it to chase a butterfly. Oh, and the -2 to Will and -2 to Diplomacy would be annoying, too.
I'm buying headbands of intelligence as an afterthought after I get 16 int. Dropping Int to 14 would've given me 2 more points, which I would've used to make Str a 17-- but I want more arcane pool points for longevity, and I want more bonus spell slots.
I prefer the scimitar for the magus, as do many other people, simply because of the crit range. (Of course, scimitars are cool also, arabian cavalry, ftw.) Let generic npc magi use long swords.
No. Everyone's magus has a scimitar. Literally everyone. And they're all dervish dancing tieflings. Not the character I'm playing. My character's hometown is nowhere near anywhere where they would use scimitars, and my character's father was a priest of Cayden Cailean who wielded a rapier. I don't even worship Sarenrae.
For feats aren't focused mind and magical lineage both magic traits? You can't take two traits from the same category, even with additional traits.
My GM let me stretch it because I actually took the feat additional traits because I took another trait as a roleplaying choice.
If your GM is not very liberal with the magic items then I think a lot of the advantage of familiars goes away. Wizards can still pull it off with Scribe Scroll and Craft Wand, but you might be better off looking at another Magus Arcana if that is the case. It's good to know the kind of games you're going to be playing the character through--- some kinds of characters don't work especially well in item starved games, while others will shine just fine.
This magus (the alias) doesn't use a scimitar...
See, I think there are more applications for that Arcana. Firstly, I don't think any sensible DM would allow a player to spam Arcane Mark the way people do. Using it exclusively to spellstrike every turn is just cheesy and no where near RAI.First, how is it any cheesier than two weapon fighting? Secondly, you say its no where near RAI but it is a touch spell on the spell list of a class that gets bonuses with touch spells. Do you honestly think the developers are so incompetent that they didn't look at every touch spell on the magus list twice before the published ultimate magic?
I DO think the Devs didn't consider people using that spell with the way people are spamming Spell Combat/Spellstrike. And really, if it was intented to be used as such, would that mean you would be using it at 1st level with Spell Combat to cast Arcane Mark + 1 melee attack? I thought not. As for TWF being cheesy, it's really not. Multiple threads will tell you that many people feel TWF is far inferior to other methods of attacking. In addition, TWF requires a Stat-requirement AND a feat to use with any sort of success.
So using it with arcane mark is cheesy, but doing the exact same thing with a different spell is somehow better?
Close range allows you to use Acid Splash and Ray of Frost in such a way to make this accessable (and deal a whopping 1d3 damage to boot *sarcasm*).
Obviously, and for two distinict reasons. First the spells in which I'm using are damage dealing spells or, were there other cantrips that have some direct usage in combat, are clearly what the Devs had in mind when using Spell Combat and Spellstrike in conjunction. Second, the two-fold effect of using Reach arcana is to add Ray spell to their Spellstrike, which in turn allows your 2 different cantrips plus a slew of other options. It's the way in which the ability is designed (Spellstrike) that intones a combat relevance with spell usage. The cantrip "light" works in the exact same fashion as Arcane Mark yet I don't see people using that particular spell with Spellstrike, so why is that?
If you need 3.5 material to be viable, then obviously its not viable. Guides, and this one specifically, are written about pathfinder. Not pathfinder and 3.5.
Secondly, with multiple rays it's worthless and I wouldn't use it but really how many spells have multiple rays on the Magus (or even wizard's) spell list? There are other spells and ranged touch spells on the Magus list which opens up some versatility. Take into account other supplements (like v3.5 Spell Compendium) and it becomes more viable
Hmm, so footnotes and exceptions are completely without merit? Becuase, you know, no one ever uses non-PF material in their products, even all those 3PP ones ON PF's OWN SITE. And gee, I don't remember posting there being a requirement of 3.5/3PP material for this arcana to be a viable option. I said "take into account other supplements and it becomes more viable", Meaning that without those supplements, it has an array of usages AND is even more beneficial with other things taken in.
Is it cheesy for a monk to get multiple attacks without having to spend a feat via flurry of blows?And flurry has the added benefit of granting a higher attack bonus, so you can't say "well that's its only purpose."
I just do not see how someone can argue that using the class abilities with the spells the class has on its on list to get two weapon fighting (a generally inferior method of fighting) is cheesy.
Of course, it's my own darned opinion that spamming Arcane Mark is cheesy and not RAI, though it's a perfectly viable option with RAW and I've never said otherwise. This is a reason I gave this option to my DM so they could make the call. As for using Arcane Mark itself, it's not the intended purpose of that particular spell to be used in the way of which Spellstrike/Spell Combat works. What I feel is the intended use of Spellstrike/Spell Combat is to attack using a TWF-style, while being able to cast a spell for combative/defensive purposes. NOT to inscribe your personal rune on a target. Even in the wording of Spellstrike, the second sentence says: "Instead of the free melee touch attack normally allowed to deliver the spell" which might make people pause and think "Hmmm....Arcane Mark doesn't require a melee touch attack..."
I'll reiterate, however, that I feel it works RAW but I don't think the Devs intented the spell to be used in such a way. Using a spell not designed for combat just to give yourself a second attack is, IMO, cheesy.
I'm curious if you've thought about making a Magus/Arcane Archer, based off of your Dervish build. As an elf with a high DEX, in an arcane spellcasting class with a medium BAB progression and the ability to stack enchantments on your bow attacks (Arcane Pool giving insight bonus to accuracy, and elemental attacks to arrow combined with automatic effects that the Arcane Archer gets)
As for using Arcane Mark itself, it's not the intended purpose of that particular spell to be used in the way of which Spellstrike/Spell Combat works.Actually, just about none of the spells were designed with spellstrike/spell combat in mind since they were designed before the magus, please stop using broken logic to justify your argument. The purpose of spellstrike was to allow the magus to channel a touch spell through their weapon because the devs thought it was cool. Whether or not they overlooked Arcane Mark when they were choosing the cantrips for the magus is pure conjecture and it makes just as much sense that they left it on the spell list because they didn't think it was too strong unlike touch of fatigue.
I rather thought the purpose of Spellstrike was to channel a "melee-touch spells" through their weapon since most of the "touch" spells are designed for attack purposes. And of course it's conjecture! Though that doesn't diminish my view or opinion in the slightest. Unless a Dev comes here and specifically says "Yea, we kept Arcane Mark in their spell list so people could use that for consistant Spellstrike/Spell Combat combination" then it's anyone's guess as to WHY it's there other than cool, flavorful effects. And really, touch of fatigue too strong? Really?
Using a spell not designed for combat just to give yourself a second attack is, IMO, cheesy.Yes, it's cheesy by the definition of the word and it's also perfectly practical. You do it because you can, because in battle you don't have time to worry about such things, you use any resource at your disposal and you either win or you die (in most cases). The character does it for the same reason the player does, because channeling a spell increases their attack speed (it's a free attack after all), what the effects of the spell are is irrelevant. I don't see why you would need to justify casting arcane mark multiple times any more than that.
All I was saying is that it's cheesy and you've affirmed that statement. I also never said I wouldn't use it and again left it to my DMs judgement if it's allowed or not. In the end, that's what really matters not RAW or RAI.
This magus (the alias) doesn't use a scimitar...
You're using a rapier. Which is a scimitar that does piercing damage.
Next is going to be a kensai using a katana.
This magus (the alias) doesn't use a scimitar...You're using a rapier. Which is a scimitar that does piercing damage.
Next is going to be a kensai using a katana.
This soon to be Magus has asked his GM to allow a Blackblade Gauntlet that is 1d3 20x , to which the GM replied "sounds cool"
This magus (the alias) doesn't use a scimitar...You're using a rapier. Which is a scimitar that does piercing damage.
Next is going to be a kensai using a katana.
However, neither a rapier nor a katana work with dervish dance so a pure dex build is not going to be effective. The mathematics of the critical are just going to favor high critical range weapons for the magus. Personally I prefer the rapier over the scmitar just for theme reasons. In the hands of a non-magus the falchata is the best one handed weapon, unfortunately the *3 critical multiplier does not affect spells.
However, neither a rapier nor a katana work with dervish dance so a pure dex build is not going to be effective. The mathematics of the critical are just going to favor high critical range weapons for the magus. Personally I prefer the rapier over the scmitar just for theme reasons. In the hands of a non-magus the falchata is the best one handed weapon, unfortunately the *3 critical multiplier does not affect spells.This magus (the alias) doesn't use a scimitar...You're using a rapier. Which is a scimitar that does piercing damage.
Next is going to be a kensai using a katana.
Not sure why dervish dance is so important now that we have the agile enchant (aside from 2h damage).
I tried wading through all this but just couldn't make it. Could someone briefly tell me if Close Combat is a good choice for my first arcana if I am NOT going use Arcane Mark to get multiple attacks?
If it's still a bad choice, could you let me know why? It seems like a great choice to me but I'm assuming that channeling a ranged touch spell through your sword no longer counts as making a ranged attack. Is that right?
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I tried wading through all this but just couldn't make it. Could someone briefly tell me if Close Combat is a good choice for my first arcana if I am NOT going use Arcane Mark to get multiple attacks?
If it's still a bad choice, could you let me know why? It seems like a great choice to me but I'm assuming that channeling a ranged touch spell through your sword no longer counts as making a ranged attack. Is that right?
"...but I'm assuming that channeling a ranged touch spell through your sword no longer counts as making a ranged attack."
This is exactly why it's a bad choice. You're always going to be better off targeting touch AC, and there are better touch attacks than ranged touch attacks anyway, so it's a waste of an Arcana. And the biggest problem with this is if you're using a ranged touch that would normally be more than one ray (like Scorching Ray) you lose all the extra rays and just get one.
Get Arcane Accuracy (+Int to attack rolls for the whole turn by spending an arcane point as a swift action) or Wand Wielder (use wands for spell combat/spellstrike, awesome to keep from wasting your spell slots) as your first Arcana at second level. Trust me on this one.
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There's nothing in the description of Wand Wielder which says a magus can use a wand in combination with Spellstrike (and the description of Spellstrike starts by saying "whenever a magus casts a spell," which eliminates the possibility of using a wand), which makes it a lot less appealing. That's not to say there aren't some interesting things you could do with wand wielder, of course.I tried wading through all this but just couldn't make it. Could someone briefly tell me if Close Combat is a good choice for my first arcana if I am NOT going use Arcane Mark to get multiple attacks?
If it's still a bad choice, could you let me know why? It seems like a great choice to me but I'm assuming that channeling a ranged touch spell through your sword no longer counts as making a ranged attack. Is that right?
"...but I'm assuming that channeling a ranged touch spell through your sword no longer counts as making a ranged attack."
This is exactly why it's a bad choice. You're always going to be better off targeting touch AC, and there are better touch attacks than ranged touch attacks anyway, so it's a waste of an Arcana. And the biggest problem with this is if you're using a ranged touch that would normally be more than one ray (like Scorching Ray) you lose all the extra rays and just get one.
Get Arcane Accuracy (+Int to attack rolls for the whole turn by spending an arcane point as a swift action) or Wand Wielder (use wands for spell combat/spellstrike, awesome to keep from wasting your spell slots) as your first Arcana at second level. Trust me on this one.
I disagree completely, casting a spell from a wand is still casting a spell. There's no reason to think otherwise that I've ever seen.
I'm still missing something, because Close Spell still seems like a good deal to me.
If I take the Close Combat arcana, then I can use Ray of Frost to attempt an extra attack with my sword every round. The spell casting requires a concentration check, but the spell no longer provokes for being ranged.
"You're better of making a touch attack" doesn't make sense to me.
"You can use Arcane Mark" is not applicable to my game.
I can see that some of the other Arcana are pretty good too, but I don't see the badness inherent in Close Spell (and if it is there, I want to understand it).
Ok thanks, that helps. I guess I'm just too focused on the infinite use Ray of Frost cantrip giving me an extra sword attack each round. At high level especially, that seems really good (certainly compared to the d3 the ray does on it's own :). I guess with short adventuring days you wouldn't run out of better stuff to do though.
Ok thanks, that helps. I guess I'm just too focused on the infinite use Ray of Frost cantrip giving me an extra sword attack each round. At high level especially, that seems really good (certainly compared to the d3 the ray does on it's own :). I guess with short adventuring days you wouldn't run out of better stuff to do though.
If you are not opposed to being a Hexcrafter (and they're awesome.) You get BRAND as a 0 level spell. It grants the free attack and does damage. Plus you get access to the awesome witch hexes which never run out and have higher save DC's than your spells....
I might be missing something, but how is the 0 level spell scoring you another attack?
Ok thanks, that helps. I guess I'm just too focused on the infinite use Ray of Frost cantrip giving me an extra sword attack each round. At high level especially, that seems really good (certainly compared to the d3 the ray does on it's own :). I guess with short adventuring days you wouldn't run out of better stuff to do though.
At higher levels between pearl of powers and the rest of your spells you shouldn't need to use a cantrip to be able to get an extra attack.
I may have to look that up... I see 'Brand' as a level 0 spell for Inquisitor, not witch. Is there a way they qualify for Inquistor spells? I cant claim any expertise here.If you are not opposed to being a Hexcrafter (and they're awesome.) You get BRAND as a 0 level spell. It grants the free attack and does damage. Plus you get access to the awesome witch hexes which never run out and have higher save DC's than your spells....Ok thanks, that helps. I guess I'm just too focused on the infinite use Ray of Frost cantrip giving me an extra sword attack each round. At high level especially, that seems really good (certainly compared to the d3 the ray does on it's own :). I guess with short adventuring days you wouldn't run out of better stuff to do though.
Read lower on Hexcrafter page. Hexcrafters get ALL curse descriptor spells added to their spellist. Brand is a curse.
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The spell casting requires a concentration check, but the spell no longer provokes for being ranged.
Casting a spell with a range still provokes from anyone threatening you, so this would still provoke every time. Though, you'd always want to cast defensively as a Magus, and you get such a huge buff to concentration checks you don't usually have to worry about wasting a spell.
I'm still missing something, because Close Spell still seems like a good deal to me.
If I take the Close Combat arcana, then I can use Ray of Frost to attempt an extra attack with my sword every round. The spell casting requires a concentration check, but the spell no longer provokes for being ranged.
"You're better of making a touch attack" doesn't make sense to me.
"You can use Arcane Mark" is not applicable to my game.I can see that some of the other Arcana are pretty good too, but I don't see the badness inherent in Close Spell (and if it is there, I want to understand it).
It's not going to make or break your character, and as I've advocated it's not a useless Arcana to take. I would, however, take Arcane Accuracy first and foremost. Then, perhaps at 6th level take Close Arcana for your ray of frost or acid splash + Spellstrike combo (which is what I'm probably going to do).
I also feel it depends on what sources your allowed in your campaign. If it's strictly PF material, then Close range arcana probably isn't the best for Character Optimization yet if you have access to the Spell Compendium, then it opens up more options and gives more reason to have it. Also, the Magus can take spells from the Wiz/Sor spell list and there are quite a few choices from there as well. Heck, you could even take Spell Blending at 3rd level to grab 2 wizard Cantrips like touch of fatigue which is usable at-will for consistant fatigue attacks (though after the first is delivered, the target can't become MORE fatigued though the duration is still upkept).
And fatigue is a pretty nice condition to place on targets: (A fatigued character can neither run nor charge and takes a –2 penalty to Strength and Dexterity. Doing anything that would normally cause fatigue causes the fatigued character to become exhausted). So that's an automatic -1 to attack, damage, CMB, and skills AND -1 to AC and CMD and skills. Not bad for a cantrip that you can do all the time.
Currently loving my first time character a level 10 Magus.
But I'm gonna be building a new character soon, and had a great idea for ranged Gestalt Magus Archer. I know there is an Arcane Archer Prestige Class. But I wanted some input on whether anyone thinks using Spellstrike as you draw/nock arrows as legit?
My thought process:
1. Magus has a Bow, activates Spell Combat.
2. Free Action - Frees right hand, casts Chill Touch.
3. Free Action - Draws an arrow from their quiver, uses Spellstrike to put one charge of Chill Touch on the arrow.
4. Full-Round Attack - First arrow is fired, it hits. Deals Spell damage and bow damage. Following attacks are as normal. (Or if allowed by DM, all arrows have Chill Touch added)
or with the feat Manyshot.
3. Free Action - Draws 2 arrows this has to be with one hand, uses spell strike and 2 charges of Chill Touch, 1 each an arrow.
4. Full-Round Attack - 2 arrows fired etc...
Or if you used a single charge spell like Shocking Grasp, obviously only the first arrow would get the charge. I definitely see missing with Spellstriked arrows being a HUGE bummer. But then this sparks another question.
What if you roll a 19 total for the attack roll, but the enemy's Base AC is 20, but their touch AC is 10. Your attack roll is not enough to completely miss, but depending on how your DM roleplays it you didn't hit the armor hard enough to pierce through, but your arrow did "Touch" them. If it's been Spellstriked that's enough to discharge a spell? Any thoughts guys. I know I've seen abilities that mention causalities for being too low to hit some DC, but high enough to hit this similar but lower DC, so x happens instead.
Thanks!
It's not legal for at least one basic reason, you have no hands free. If your GM allows it, then that's all you need to worry about.
I understand for all intents and purposes bows are two handed weapons, and if necessary there is the third party Magus Arcana: Enruned Great Weapon.
But if you think about it the mechanics any person wielding a bow is supporting the weight in the other hand, because their main hand is constantly drawing/nocking arrows to fire at enemies? Drawing/nocking is considered part of your attack standard/full-round otherwise you wouldn't be able to attack more than once with a high BAB with bows.But its just a thought, this would be my 2nd DnD character so I understand if its not feasible. But its still awesome as a concept.