[UM] Walter's Guide to the Magus


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Um just to point out, scabbard of keen edge is another way to get Keen on a weapon.


The Forgotten wrote:
Um just to point out, scabbard of keen edge is another way to get Keen on a weapon.

Is it still a standard action to activate?

And for 16k gold, you'd likely be able to simply enchant your weapon with it permanently. That is if the weapon is under +4 equivalent... which so far is well within what we've been talking about..

You're right it's a way.. but it's one of those items that really should be edited into being useful.

-James


B0sh1 wrote:
Abraham spalding wrote:

I'm almost done with my staff build -- and walter I think you'll be adding a third type of magus (as opposed to the current Strength and Dexterity magus) -- the intelligence based magus.

I am very interested in how a int based magus works out. I've been thinking of that option with a non-bladebound build.

Yes Abraham we are waiting!!

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qutoes wrote:


Yes Abraham we are waiting!!

In case anyone's wondering - I'm waiting too :P

I've finished putting up spell links for the spell section, colored the archetypes, and added a few multiclass suggestions. Any further comments are welcome, and if a link is dead please post it up here. Thanks!


Someone asked about Boneshatter earlier.
Check the PFSRD- Necromancy 4th level, does 15d6 untyped damage+ exhaustion. Fatigued on a save.

Decent spell for spell blending.


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It's funny about power attack not being worth it for magus. The argument is made because of his med BAB.

I found buffs fix it.
I play a Str/Int focused magus.

When I move+attack, I use PA, Spellstrike, Arcane Strike.
Because I'm attacking 2handed here (no -2 for spell combat). I find I hit more often than not.

When I full attack, I spam Arcane Accuracy on my attack. My Int to hit makes PA just fine.

The Med BAB argument is false if a class brings its own buffs to hit.
It's an auto selection for an Inquisitor, who can stack Justice, Divine Power etc.


STR Ranger wrote:

Someone asked about Boneshatter earlier.

Check the PFSRD- Necromancy 4th level, does 15d6 untyped damage+ exhaustion. Fatigued on a save.

Decent spell for spell blending.

Thank you i just checked it.

It's in the osirion companion book, but isn't that book for 3.5 and not PF?


STR Ranger wrote:

It's funny about power attack not being worth it for magus. The argument is made because of his med BAB.

I found buffs fix it.
I play a Str/Int focused magus.

When I move+attack, I use PA, Spellstrike, Arcane Strike.
Because I'm attacking 2handed here (no -2 for spell combat). I find I hit more often than not.

When I full attack, I spam Arcane Accuracy on my attack. My Int to hit makes PA just fine.

The Med BAB argument is false if a class brings its own buffs to hit.
It's an auto selection for an Inquisitor, who can stack Justice, Divine Power etc.

Care to share build/stat array? I am sure WalterGM is looking for various examples of builds. Do you split Int/Str in your stat advancements?


25 point buy

Str 17 (All level points here gets to 22)
Dex 12
Con 12 (All favored bonus to HP)
Wis 9
Int 17(+2 Human)
Cha 7

Will hurts but once guys see you cast, foes tend to focus will saves on full melees.
I'll post a full build later, suffice to say the AC Issue Bites. Heavily relies on flanking (mostly so a buddy can draw Aggro)

Once Dex items and med Armour is an option the pain goes away...

Liberty's Edge

The problem with spamming arcane accuracy is that you're not then using your arcane pool to retrieve vampiric touch (or whatever). Personally, I'd rather use a feat selection and an arcana on something that's not going to make me blow through a very limited resource that can otherwise be spent doing other things that's just as decent. However, that is just my opinion and your use will have a higher DPS while my build would be more sustainable. (One thing I love about the Magus, how small changes in class features and feats radically change the build.)

That said, are you setting Intelligence at 17 so you can increase it with a tome because otherwise, IMO the 3 points between 16 and 17 could be spent elsewhere. Also, its interesting, to me, that you would consider intelligence your most important stat at character creation (assign it the bonus points) but then consider strength your most important stat there after.


I did say it was duel focused. 17 Int +2 human is 19 at 1st level and keeps your DC's competitive until you can get tomes/items. It also sets the save on your hexes (my build is a hex crafter). As for repreparing spells. That's what pearls are for.


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Here's my Hexcrafter:

Str 17 (All level points here gets to 22)
Dex 12
Con 12 (All favored bonus to HP)
Wis 9
Int 17(+2 Human)
Cha 7

Traits: Traits:Desperate Focus, Magical Lineage (Shocking grasp)

1 Arcane Pool +1, Cantrips, Spell Combat, Extra Arcane Pool, Iron Will
2 Spellstrike
3 Magus Arcana (Spellshield), Extra Arcana: Familiar
4 Slumber Hex
5 Arcane Pool +2, Power Attack, Intensify Spell
6 Magus Arcana (Arcane Accuracy)
7 Knowledge Pool, Medium Armor, Wpn Fcs: Scimitar
8 Improved Spell Combat
9 Arcane Pool +3, Hex Arcana (Evil Eye) , Improved Familiar
10 Fighter Training
11 Weapon Specialization, Spell Recall, Selective Spell
12 Major Arcana Hex(Ice Tomb)
13 Arcane Pool +4, Heavy Armor, Extra Arcana: Spell Blending (Boneshatter, Enervation)
14 Gtr Spell Combat
15 Hex Arcana (Major Healing) Quicken Spell
16 Counterstrike
17 Arcane Pool +5, Gtr Wpn Fcs, Spell Perfection (Cone of Cold)
18 Hex Arcana (Quickened Magic)
19 Gtr Spell Access, Maximise Spell
20 True Magus

I've gone for Versatility.
Has Both a Will and Fort Save or Lose Hex that scales with Int.
Evil Eye has multiple applications and lasts rounds
Major Healing for Self Help
Higher Int and Extra Arcana Help with points to use Arcana's
Improved Familiar for Wand Use
Between STR and a Belt of Physical Perfection you'll have STR 28 and Gtr Wpn Fcs for your to hit.
Int starts at 19 (24 with a +5 tome and up to 30 with a headband +6) this gives a final arcane pool of 20 points.

Now 1-6 Levels: First Move is to Arcane Pool your weapon, move in and Spellstrike with a shocking grasp on a Mook. You get one attack and AC sucks so Arcane Shield Helps alot. Take your full attcak and 5ft step away and use Color Spray. Slumber Hex is your opening move when you get it for enemy fighters. The Main party melee can coup de grace. Have your familiar use aid another and flank. Your Str offsets your Lower BAB, (remember to 2hand on Move+Spellstrike) Buy pearls of power when you can afford it.

7-14 Levels: Use Arcane Accuracy to help hit with PA on. Improved Familiar should be using beneficial wands (Like delaying until after your turn and using Vanish on you or enlarge person to give you reach) Evil Eye is awesome to debuff either saves (your give equal measure to casting) of Lower Enemy to hit (don't bother with AC since you hit with Arcane Accuracy) with Medium Armor online you are using arcane shield ALOT less. You should be intensifying all your shocking grasps now (still uses a 1st level slot) Ice Tomb gives you a Fort save or Lose for casters. Boneshatter and Enervation are great debuff spells, plus you know the curse spells.

15-20 Levels: Major Healing is not an 'optimised' choice. Merely adds versatility and lessens the drain on party rescources. Quicken Spell is for later when you get spell perfection. Your main Blast at this level is a Maximised Cone of Cold, followed up by a quickend cone of cold.

So- Hexes for Save or Lose, Blasts/Curses for spell combat and a familiar to add more action economy. It's not a UBER build but I've had no problems (little low on HP and AC at lower levels mostly)

Off Topic- anyone know why it says at 20th level a hexcrafter can take a Grand Hex? You don't get hexes at 20th and the archetype merely allows you to learn a hex IN PLACE of an arcana.


STR Ranger wrote:
Off Topic- anyone know why it says at 20th level a hexcrafter can take a Grand Hex? You don't get hexes at 20th and the archetype merely allows you to learn a hex IN PLACE of an arcana.

It's true that you get no use out of it inherantly. However, it's a very useful thing to know, should your game reach level 21 or beyond, or if your DM allows you to 'buy' feats, or through any other house rule that allows you to obtain a feat at 20th...

Silver Crusade

STR Ranger wrote:
Here's my Hexcrafter:

Thumbs up for not using Dervish Dancer, it's refreshing to see this.

We have a similar magus in our group, but she choose to go Familiar: Cat/Misfortune/Cackle way, and focuses more on magic instead of shield/accuracy.
The familiar doesn't use magic device since there were almost no wizards and "exotic" wondrous items in our last campaign.


I'm playing a bladebound magus currently level 3 and I like to plan out my character progression, so I wanted to ask what are some recommended spells to take for greater spell access at lvl 19?

my character was preset by my gm so the following were giving to me during the campaign start:

ability scores are all 14 except charisma which is 13, fast talker and hermean paragon traits, hermean blood(sense motive and perception) and lightning reflexes feats, level one spells at start were expeditious retreat, feather fall, magic missle, shield, unseen servant. I picked shocking grasp, color spray, true strike, grease during my last 2 level ups and gained burning hands and sleep through events.

my plans for the character

arcana choices
6 empowered arcana
9 arcane accuracy
12 maximized arcana
15 reflection
18 undecided

feats
3 weapon focus(scimitar)
5 arcane strike, extra arcane pool
7 intensified spell
9 extend spell
11 weapon specialization, lunge
13 piercing spell
15 spell perfection(shocking grasp)
17 spell penetration, greater weapon focus
19 undecided

spells
2 mirror image,frigid touch,scorching ray,web,pyrotechnics,glitterdust, bear's endurance, invisibility
3 haste, fly, vamp touch, ray of exhaustion, keen edge, stinking cloud
4 black tentacles, stoneskin, dimension door, greater invisibility, arcane theft, monstrous physique 2
5 wall of force, teleport, overland flight, cloudkill, wall of stone, corrosive consumption, cone of cold, fire snake, monstrous phyisque 3
6 greater dispel magic, flesh to stone, forceful hand, sirocco, true seeing, chain lightning, freezing sphere

here are the spells I have thought about taking for greater spell access:
0 touch of fatigue, mending
1 identify, protection from -
2 spectral hand, touch of idiocy
3 heroism, magic circle against -
4 calcific touch, summon monster 4
5 summon monster 5, dismissal
6 planar binding, contingency

if anyone has thoughts on what and why I should take something instead, please let me know. Thanks in advance!


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Sorry folks got busy.

So:
(20 point buy)
Str 14 dex 16(14) Con 14 Int 18(16) Wis 9 Cha 5(7)
Tiefling Staff magus Hexcrafter

Now the key for me is deciding where I want each stat to max out at. For example I know I'm going to be using light armor -- and that celestial armor is the 'best' of the light armors (it grants the highest possible combined armor class), however it has a maximum dexterity bonus of +8. I'm +3 into that already and when (eventually) I have the belt of physical perfection that's going to put me +3 more into it -- leaving me at +2 left, a tome +4 will max me out on dex bonus.

So I know with where my Dex is now I'll get maximum benefit out of it down the road for a staff magus. Of course I would like more Con or Str -- but quite frankly not at the expense of Intelligence.

Traits:
Magical Lineage(magic missile)
Quantium University Graduate or Abendego Spellpiercer (Regional)

Feats:
Quarter staff mastery
1. Toppling Spell
3. Weapon Focus(quarterstaff)
5. Spell Focus(evocation)
B. Weapon Specialization(quarterstaff)
7. Power Attack
9. Spell Penetration
11. Intensify Spell
B. Focused Spell
13. Greater Spell Focus(evocation)
15. Quicken Spell
17. Spell Perfection
B. Spell Perfection
19.

Arcana:
3. Arcane Accuracy
6. Evil Eye
9. Wand Wielder
12. Cackle
15. Retribution Hex
18. (Life Giver, Dire Prophecy, Summon Spirit)

Hex: Prehensile Hair

The basic idea here isn't basic. I purposefully avoided using any arcana except arcane accuracy that eats up arcane points -- generally I see them as a waste anyways. Spell pool is neat -- don't get me wrong I loved using it -- but it's not something I see useful when it comes to arcane points. I didn't take arcane strike because I want to use the swift actions for other abilities and quite frankly I don't think I'll have the swift action to waste on it as often as other builds do.

Arcane Accuracy and arcane pool are key in many ways to this build in melee -- however it's out of melee that some of its unique abilities shine through. Like prehensile hair -- prehensile hair gives us something that we really need... an extra hand. It can hold and manipulate objects without having something in our off hand -- things like metamagic rods. Which we are going to want several of: Quicken, Persistent, Focused, and Dazing are all nice choices, as is Bouncing.

When it comes to the rounds when you can't spell combat use hexes like evil eye, retribution hex, or whatever else you have. The DC's on these abilities are going to be rather good since everything you have goes into intelligence first, and they are based on class level -- meaning they'll often have a DC higher than your spells. If you expecting to have a hard time hitting then lessen their AC... if you are more likely to want to connect with spells then give them the penalty to save throws. Retribution will keep them from wanting to hit things helping you control their actions better (you can force them out of melee combat with your allies). If they make their save against the evil eye then cackle to allow yourself the ability to make use of it on the next round.

Your arcane pool has two uses -- and you won't be using it every round either. Either you'll boost your staff or your use it for arcane accuracy, use pearls of power to regain spells. Please note that once you get to 10th level it doesn't matter what spell levels are on the staff -- you can still recharge it.

Spells I prefer for this build are: The various (humanoid and undead) polymorphs, force spells, or area effect evocation spells.

The key is proper use and timing of abilities -- you have an odd mix of abilities that is going to keep your enemies off their game -- with arcane accuracy you can hit and hit hard -- especially if you are packing a spell on those strikes -- if they stay away you hurt their chances with hexes or toppling magic missiles (or force hooks!).

Your staff isn't ever going to have a "normal" +5 bonus to it -- and that's okay -- it's going to have a +2 minimum and with greater magic weapon it can be +1/4 your level for the day before you use arcane pool. The staff is going to provide you with a shield bonus constantly meaning you don't have to waste spells on such and your defenses are going to be strong at all points (in fact you just might come out with more AC than the fighter), so focus your magics on buffing yourself during spell combat (remember spell combat only requires you full attack and cast a spell -- so cast something that gives you reach and then hit the enemy instead of trying to close) or dealing more damage.


Abraham spalding wrote:


For example I know I'm going to be using light armor -- and that celestial armor is the 'best' of the light armors (it grants the highest possible combined armor class), however it has a maximum dexterity bonus of +8.

Now unless I'm mistaken This armor is Chain mail not a chain shirt. Even though the description says that it is considered light, but it doesn't say for proficiency like elven chain.

So how do we know if it is really Light armor or just considered light armor but need Medium Armor Prof. like armor made from different materials?


John Kerrigan wrote:
Abraham spalding wrote:


For example I know I'm going to be using light armor -- and that celestial armor is the 'best' of the light armors (it grants the highest possible combined armor class), however it has a maximum dexterity bonus of +8.

Now unless I'm mistaken This armor is Chain mail not a chain shirt. Even though the description says that it is considered light, but it doesn't say for proficiency like elven chain.

So how do we know if it is really Light armor or just considered light armor but need Medium Armor Prof. like armor made from different materials?

Celestial chainmail is medium armor, but by the time the magus can afford it he'll be able to use medium armor.

-James

Dark Archive

james maissen wrote:
John Kerrigan wrote:
Abraham spalding wrote:


For example I know I'm going to be using light armor -- and that celestial armor is the 'best' of the light armors (it grants the highest possible combined armor class), however it has a maximum dexterity bonus of +8.

Now unless I'm mistaken This armor is Chain mail not a chain shirt. Even though the description says that it is considered light, but it doesn't say for proficiency like elven chain.

So how do we know if it is really Light armor or just considered light armor but need Medium Armor Prof. like armor made from different materials?

Celestial chainmail is medium armor, but by the time the magus can afford it he'll be able to use medium armor.

-James

The magus in question is a staff magus, so he doesn't gain medium armor proficiency.


Jadeite wrote:


The magus in question is a staff magus, so he doesn't gain medium armor proficiency.

Ah, then he's out of luck.

-James

Scarab Sages

james maissen wrote:
John Kerrigan wrote:
Abraham spalding wrote:


For example I know I'm going to be using light armor -- and that celestial armor is the 'best' of the light armors (it grants the highest possible combined armor class), however it has a maximum dexterity bonus of +8.

Now unless I'm mistaken This armor is Chain mail not a chain shirt. Even though the description says that it is considered light, but it doesn't say for proficiency like elven chain.

So how do we know if it is really Light armor or just considered light armor but need Medium Armor Prof. like armor made from different materials?

Celestial chainmail is medium armor, but by the time the magus can afford it he'll be able to use medium armor.

-James

Celestial armor states "it is considered light armor" in the descripton, and unlike mithral doesn't mention anything about needing med armor proficiency (though it is stated as chain mail).


Wyrd20 wrote:


Celestial armor states "it is considered light armor" in the descripton, and unlike mithral doesn't mention anything about needing med armor proficiency (though it is stated as chain mail).

I thought that they had altered this for all of the mithral armors, though I even still see it under elven chain.

Maybe I'm misremembering or is it that some of these descriptions have flown under the radar?

-James


Alright -- one of my pet peeves is this very thing -- you have instant access to the equipment in question and then don't even bother to check it to see if your point is valid. I can only assume that the posts were made on mobile devices that would prevent you from having full access to the internet and the rules therefore.

Also I'm not really upset -- anymore than a pet peeve makes anyone -- and I've done similar before so I'm not saying I'm somehow better -- just ranting as I am prone to do.

Anyways the item in question:

Celestial Armor wrote:


Celestial Armor

Aura faint transmutation [good]; CL 5th

Slot armor; Price 22,400 gp; Weight 20 lbs.
Description

This bright silver or gold +3 chainmail is so fine and light that it can be worn under normal clothing without betraying its presence. It has a maximum Dexterity bonus of +8, an armor check penalty of –2, and an arcane spell failure chance of 15%. It is considered light armor and allows the wearer to use fly on command (as the spell) once per day.
Construction Requirements

Craft Magic Arms and Armor, fly, creator must be good; Cost 11,350 gp

It is actually considered light armor -- unlike mithral which is light armor for most purposes (but not all).

mithral wrote:


Mithral is a very rare silvery, glistening metal that is lighter than steel but just as hard.

When worked like steel, it becomes a wonderful material from which to create armor, and is occasionally used for other items as well. Most mithral armors are one category lighter than normal for purposes of movement and other limitations. Heavy armors are treated as medium, and medium armors are treated as light, but light armors are still treated as light. This decrease does not apply to proficiency in wearing the armor. A character wearing mithral full plate must be proficient in wearing heavy armor to avoid adding the armor's check penalty to all his attack rolls and skill checks that involve moving. Spell failure chances for armors and shields made from mithral are decreased by 10%, maximum Dexterity bonuses are increased by 2, and armor check penalties are decreased by 3 (to a minimum of 0).

An item made from mithral weighs half as much as the same item made from other metals. In the case of weapons, this lighter weight does not change a weapon's size category or the ease with which it can be wielded (whether it is light, one-handed, or two-handed). Items not primarily of metal are not meaningfully affected by being partially made of mithral. (A longsword can be a mithral weapon, while a quarterstaff cannot.) Mithral weapons count as silver for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction.

HP/inch 30

Hardness 15


Abraham spalding wrote:


It is actually considered light armor -- unlike mithral which is light armor for most purposes (but not all).

Elven chainmail has the same wording.. I thought that it had been changed with PF.

Mea culpa,

-James


james maissen wrote:
Abraham spalding wrote:


It is actually considered light armor -- unlike mithral which is light armor for most purposes (but not all).

Elven chainmail has the same wording.. I thought that it had been changed with PF.

Mea culpa,

-James

JJ or JB had commented on this -- elven chain mail is actually different than 'standard' chain mail -- please note that 'normal' mithral chain mail is only 4,150 gp while elven chain mail is 5,150gp. That extra 1,000 gp isn't just the elves charging more -- it's because the armor is actually light armor for all purposes.


Abraham spalding wrote:


JJ or JB had commented on this -- elven chain mail is actually different than 'standard' chain mail -- please note that 'normal' mithral chain mail is only 4,150 gp while elven chain mail is 5,150gp. That extra 1,000 gp isn't just the elves charging more -- it's because the armor is actually light armor for all purposes.

Interesting!

And somehow it's non-magical to boot.. this was a PF change that I had not noticed.. when I get the chance I'll have to visit that thread!

-James

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Hi all, just wanted to post and say that I've been a bit overwhelmed with work and have been putting this thread/the guide on the backburner. I'm actually working right now, but when I'm home I'll give the builds and various posts the reading they deserve.

I'd also like to say thanks again for the continual input, it's really nice to open this page up for the first time in a couple of days and see the wealth of insightful information people have to say.

Scarab Sages

Abraham spalding wrote:
james maissen wrote:
Abraham spalding wrote:


It is actually considered light armor -- unlike mithral which is light armor for most purposes (but not all).

Elven chainmail has the same wording.. I thought that it had been changed with PF.

Mea culpa,

-James

JJ or JB had commented on this -- elven chain mail is actually different than 'standard' chain mail -- please note that 'normal' mithral chain mail is only 4,150 gp while elven chain mail is 5,150gp. That extra 1,000 gp isn't just the elves charging more -- it's because the armor is actually light armor for all purposes.

Hehe, now if it was Dwarves, I could see the needless upcharge.

Shadow Lodge RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 8

@ Str Ranger: I like your selection of witch hexes, I like the thought of hexes being something you can use to disable/debuff opponents without expending things from your limited pool of resources. It also makes you more versatile, which is what the magus is all about.

@ Abraham Spaulding: I love the style of your build. The prehensile hair hex to grant an additional arm to use metamagic rods is a very cool concept. I also like how you removed a lot of the worry regarding "what swift action do I want to use this turn?" by just limiting the arcana pool to Arcane Accuracy. Also the option to debuff as a standard action without expending a spell or limited use ability is a great option for a class that, I think, specialized quite a bit in having numerous options.

@ Soundshock: You've got the right idea for the most part. A couple comments. First, why do you have piercing spell before spell penetration? I think these should be reversed - +2 all the time versus a +5(basically) and only after you've prepared it for that particular spell. Also, I would consider getting spell blending at level 9, or at least soon after. There are some great level 3 spells that you don't have access too and might want (protection from elements and heroism, for example). At level 6, consider Permanency as one of your spells for level 19.

Grand Lodge

Is there a way that the feat starved Magus can get a hold of the Aldori Dueling Mastery feat and not make it completely insane?

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/aldori-dueling-mastery

I am not cool with the Only Scimitar users thing but I also understand its an Optimisation guide.

Issue is this feat needs an exotic weapon feat AND quickdraw.. so two feats you wouldn't normally get but the pay off is a +2 shield AC.

Dark Archive

Helaman wrote:

Is there a way that the feat starved Magus can get a hold of the Aldori Dueling Mastery feat and not make it completely insane?

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/aldori-dueling-mastery

I am not cool with the Only Scimitar users thing but I also understand its an Optimisation guide.

Issue is this feat needs an exotic weapon feat AND quickdraw.. so two feats you wouldn't normally get but the pay off is a +2 shield AC.

Aldori Dueling Master is horrible. If you have to take an exotic weapon, take the urumi instead. As a strength based magus, you waste three feats for a +2 bonus on initiative and a +2 shield bonus. You also have to take Quickdraw, which is rather useless if you only get the bonus on initiative when you start the combat with the ADS in your hand, so I'll consider that a wasted feat, too.

You'd also need to be at least 5th level to get the feat.
The shield spell and mithral bucklers are much easier ways of getting a shield bonus.


WalterGM wrote:
At level 6, consider Permanency as one of your spells for level 19.

A reason you don't want to do this via a spell storing item and save this for a spell you'll use more often?

-James


I just thought about multiclassing for the magus. Rogue could be a good option for multiclass (or maybe better as a 'dip' for the rogue itself)

Sneak attack is a nice thing to stack with spellstrike (easy enough with vanish and the like), the extra skill points can be useful, it increases your only poor save, and several rogue talants can be nice (hello, free combat feats!) and Evasion at 2nd level can never hurt to have!

This may not be optimal multiclassing, but it occured to me when i started making a magus for a Gestalt game i'm playing soon. Gestalt Magus/Rogue is beyond sexy!


Banatine wrote:

I just thought about multiclassing for the magus. Rogue could be a good option for multiclass (or maybe better as a 'dip' for the rogue itself)

Sneak attack is a nice thing to stack with spellstrike (easy enough with vanish and the like), the extra skill points can be useful, it increases your only poor save, and several rogue talants can be nice (hello, free combat feats!) and Evasion at 2nd level can never hurt to have!

This may not be optimal multiclassing,

Well this is going towards an optimization guide..

But it would be nice to see if ANYTHING multiclasses well with magus and if broad study is of ANY use, which honestly so far I think it is not.

-James


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You know what does multiclass well with magus?

Vivisectionist Alchemist. Take just two levels. Get a mutagen (basically a non-raging rage) a sneak attack dice, and an extra arm, as well as a +3 to your fort save, +3 to your reflex save and the ability to take several very nice discoveries as feats down the road.


Abraham spalding wrote:

You know what does multiclass well with magus?

Vivisectionist Alchemist. Take just two levels. Get a mutagen (basically a non-raging rage) a sneak attack dice, and an extra arm, as well as a +3 to your fort save, +3 to your reflex save and the ability to take several very nice discoveries as feats down the road.

Still want to see a good trip staff build .


qutoes wrote:
Abraham spalding wrote:

You know what does multiclass well with magus?

Vivisectionist Alchemist. Take just two levels. Get a mutagen (basically a non-raging rage) a sneak attack dice, and an extra arm, as well as a +3 to your fort save, +3 to your reflex save and the ability to take several very nice discoveries as feats down the road.

Still want to see a good trip staff build .

Then you should have been paying attention it's up already.


@walter: i picked piercing spell earlier because of the 3 metamagic feats preq for spell perfection, the spell penetration was set later because i have no idea how to best arrange the feat progression without moving the spell perfection to a later level. Isn't permanency a lvl 5 spell? Either way any suggestions or how to set the feat progression in a better way and i also asked my gm to change the fast talker trait to magic lineage(shocking grasp) so that helps me much more.


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james maissen wrote:

But it would be nice to see if ANYTHING multiclasses well with magus and if broad study is of ANY use, which honestly so far I think it is not.

A whip-using trip-specialist Magus has some nice synergy with Cavalier. I envisioned it more of as a spellcasting Cavalier than a pure Magus and [url=http://paizo.com/paizo/messageboards/paizoPublishing/pathfinder/pathfinderRPG/advice/whipAsMainWeapon&page=1#16]I went on at great length in another thread[/a], the general gist being that a Magus can use Spellstrike to add damage to trip, or can net a +18 in one round with a Spell Combat Truestrike, so he's a decent alternative for tripping, and riding around on a horse is a good deal if you're a Hexcrafter Magus who wants to Cackle, and a lance is a one handed weapon while you're mounted. You could probably pull the whip and trip out and just do damage.


I'd really like to know what transmutation spells make a magus rock.

Monstrous Physique 3 and 4 seem a bit wasted. I checked the PFSRD and could not find a single HUGE Monstrous Humanoid to turn into. What gives?

The Bonuses to reach/strength/natural armor to well to buff you. If a huge form WAS available it would be:
+3 to hit and damage (from +6 to str)
+4 to AC (+6natural, -2 from a 4point loss of dex)
1 minute/level
stacks with your gear and offers other abilities.

As I said, no PFSRD Monsterous Humanoids are Huge...


STR Ranger wrote:

I'd really like to know what transmutation spells make a magus rock.

Monstrous Physique 3 and 4 seem a bit wasted. I checked the PFSRD and could not find a single HUGE Monstrous Humanoid to turn into. What gives?

The Bonuses to reach/strength/natural armor to well to buff you. If a huge form WAS available it would be:
+3 to hit and damage (from +6 to str)
+4 to AC (+6natural, -2 from a 4point loss of dex)
1 minute/level
stacks with your gear and offers other abilities.

As I said, no PFSRD Monsterous Humanoids are Huge...

Forward compability.


STR Ranger wrote:

I'd really like to know what transmutation spells make a magus rock.

Monstrous Physique 3 and 4 seem a bit wasted. I checked the PFSRD and could not find a single HUGE Monstrous Humanoid to turn into. What gives?

The Bonuses to reach/strength/natural armor to well to buff you. If a huge form WAS available it would be:
+3 to hit and damage (from +6 to str)
+4 to AC (+6natural, -2 from a 4point loss of dex)
1 minute/level
stacks with your gear and offers other abilities.

As I said, no PFSRD Monsterous Humanoids are Huge...

Actually it's less bonus to hit (-2 to hit for Huge size), and more bonus to damage (weapon size increase).

As to not having anything in this category, I think they made the giants humanoid now and that could be what you're seeing here.

-James

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Jadeite wrote:


The shield spell and mithral bucklers are much easier ways of getting a shield bonus.

While the shield spell is a good and recomended option, note that you do not get the AC bonus from a buckler when you use spell combat.


Abraham spalding wrote:

Sorry folks got busy.

So:
(20 point buy)
Str 14 dex 16(14) Con 14 Int 18(16) Wis 9 Cha 5(7)
Tiefling Staff magus Hexcrafter

Now the key for me is deciding where I want each stat to max out at. For example I know I'm going to be using light armor -- and that celestial armor is the 'best' of the light armors (it grants the highest possible combined armor class), however it has a maximum dexterity bonus of +8. I'm +3 into that already and when (eventually) I have the belt of physical perfection that's going to put me +3 more into it -- leaving me at +2 left, a tome +4 will max me out on dex bonus.

So I know with where my Dex is now I'll get maximum benefit out of it down the road for a staff magus. Of course I would like more Con or Str -- but quite frankly not at the expense of Intelligence.

Traits:
Magical Lineage(magic missile)
Quantium University Graduate or Abendego Spellpiercer (Regional)

Feats:
Quarter staff mastery
1. Toppling Spell
3. Weapon Focus(quarterstaff)
5. Spell Focus(evocation)
B. Weapon Specialization(quarterstaff)
7. Power Attack
9. Spell Penetration
11. Intensify Spell
B. Focused Spell
13. Greater Spell Focus(evocation)
15. Quicken Spell
17. Spell Perfection
B. Spell Perfection
19.

Arcana:
3. Arcane Accuracy
6. Evil Eye
9. Wand Wielder
12. Cackle
15. Retribution Hex
18. (Life Giver, Dire Prophecy, Summon Spirit)

Hex: Prehensile Hair

The basic idea here isn't basic. I purposefully avoided using any arcana except arcane accuracy that eats up arcane points -- generally I see them as a waste anyways. Spell pool is neat -- don't get me wrong I loved using it -- but it's not something I see useful when it comes to arcane points. I didn't take arcane strike because I want to use the swift actions for other abilities and quite frankly I don't think I'll have the swift action to waste on it as often as other builds do.

Arcane Accuracy and arcane pool are key in many ways to this build in melee -- however it's out of melee that some of its unique...

I really like the Idea of this kind of build, and is what I was looking toward building. I however have a little dilemma, The game I'm playing in is using Unearthed Arcana spell points system. Spell damage dice do not scale. This means that Heighten spell is a needed Meta-magic feat for spell point economy. What level would you pick this up? what would you put off getting or replace for it?


Trade out intensify spell for it.

Grand Lodge

Is Expanded Arcana at any level really worth the feat for the Magus - I dont see it in the Guide.

Shadow Lodge RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 8

james maissen wrote:

A reason you don't want to do this via a spell storing item and save this for a spell you'll use more often?

-James

Don't have one off the top of my head - I'm just used to Dark Sun where magic items are few and far between, even at the higher levels.

james maissen wrote:


@walter: i picked piercing spell earlier because of the 3 metamagic feats preq for spell perfection, the spell penetration was set later because i have no idea how to best arrange the feat progression without moving the spell perfection to a later level. Isn't permanency a lvl 5 spell? Either way any suggestions or how to set the feat progression in a better way and i also asked my gm to change the fast talker trait to magic lineage(shocking grasp) so that helps me much more.

Ahh, that explains it. Yea, its a 5th level spell. Good call on getting your lineage changed. Build wise, if you scroll up there was a bit of debate about it on page 3 or 4 of this thread I believe.

Helaman wrote:
Is Expanded Arcana at any level really worth the feat for the Magus - I dont see it in the Guide.

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/expanded-arcana

"You can only take this feat if you possess levels in a class whose spellcasting relies on a limited list of spells known, such as the bard, oracle, and sorcerer."

You don't even qualify.

Dark Archive

Abraham spalding wrote:

Sorry folks got busy.

So:
(20 point buy)
Str 14 dex 16(14) Con 14 Int 18(16) Wis 9 Cha 5(7)
Tiefling Staff magus Hexcrafter

Now the key for me is deciding where I want each stat to max out at. For example I know I'm going to be using light armor -- and that celestial armor is the 'best' of the light armors (it grants the highest possible combined armor class), however it has a maximum dexterity bonus of +8. I'm +3 into that already and when (eventually) I have the belt of physical perfection that's going to put me +3 more into it -- leaving me at +2 left, a tome +4 will max me out on dex bonus.

So I know with where my Dex is now I'll get maximum benefit out of it down the road for a staff magus. Of course I would like more Con or Str -- but quite frankly not at the expense of Intelligence.

Traits:
Magical Lineage(magic missile)
Quantium University Graduate or Abendego Spellpiercer (Regional)

Feats:
Quarter staff mastery
1. Toppling Spell
3. Weapon Focus(quarterstaff)
5. Spell Focus(evocation)
B. Weapon Specialization(quarterstaff)
7. Power Attack
9. Spell Penetration
11. Intensify Spell
B. Focused Spell
13. Greater Spell Focus(evocation)
15. Quicken Spell
17. Spell Perfection
B. Spell Perfection
19.

Arcana:
3. Arcane Accuracy
6. Evil Eye
9. Wand Wielder
12. Cackle
15. Retribution Hex
18. (Life Giver, Dire Prophecy, Summon Spirit)

Hex: Prehensile Hair

The basic idea here isn't basic. I purposefully avoided using any arcana except arcane accuracy that eats up arcane points -- generally I see them as a waste anyways. Spell pool is neat -- don't get me wrong I loved using it -- but it's not something I see useful when it comes to arcane points. I didn't take arcane strike because I want to use the swift actions for other abilities and quite frankly I don't think I'll have the swift action to waste on it as often as other builds do.

Arcane Accuracy and arcane pool are key in many ways to this build in melee -- however it's out of melee that some of its unique...

This is a nice build, but my only concern is giving up spell recall till 11th level. with as few spells per day as a Magus gets and the tendency to Nova so effectively, Losing Spell recall just feels like you are giving up so much over your flexibility and staying power for access to a hex or three. (Not knocking the Hexes, they are the main draw for me playing my Witch)

Other than having a lower DC and no Major Hex's wouldn't just a single level Dip into witch give you the same benefits without giving up spell recall? You'd have to swap Misfortune for Evil Eye since it'd stop scaling so well but everything else would continue working just as well though you'd be a bit more frugal with the Prehensile hair but not enough to really worry about using it.


Mathwei ap Niall wrote:

This is a nice build, but my only concern is giving up spell recall till 11th level. with as few spells per day as a Magus gets and the tendency to Nova so effectively, Losing Spell recall just feels like you are giving up so much over your flexibility and staying power for access to a hex or three. (Not knocking the Hexes, they are the main draw for me playing my Witch)

Loosing spell recall and not getting improved spell recall at 11th is a huge hit.

I'm not sure that hexes make up for this loss either. Using a hex is a standard action and I don't think the magus has anything that allows one to use a hex in spell combat (or am I wrong?)

Likewise I wasn't sure on the focus for magic missile, as I would think that a more touch driven spell would work better here so as to give better melee options.

Mathwei ap Niall wrote:


Other than having a lower DC and no Major Hex's wouldn't just a single level Dip into witch give you the same benefits without giving up spell recall?

Aren't the DCs, etc based off of class level rather than character level?

-James


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No -- dipping into witch means much lower DCs (since magus levels won't count). Also spell recall is a crutch ability -- if you are being effective with your character then pearls of power will handle all your spell recalling needs.

Look at it this way -- what are you spending your wealth on? It's not going to be some awesome magic weapon -- all you need is a staff and your abilities to boost it which you have many of. Armor and save throw bonuses are rather cheap. Stat boosts will eat some of your wealth... but honestly not as much as others might suggest. About all you really need is supplemental gear such as pearls of power.

Before 11th level you probably won't actually use spell combat much. Either the monster will drop to a full attack or you'll be too far to full attack and close while casting a spell. Either way you are unlikely to really need to use much force in each encounter. Between encounters you use your pearls to regain spells -- until 10th level the most you'll need is a pearl of power (3rd level) which is 9,000 gp... (2nd level) is 4,000 and first level is 1,000gp. After level 11 spell recall isn't as useful due to the sheer number of points it uses up -- as an emergency option yes it is great -- but not one you should really rely on regularly.

IF you must use spell recall regularly you need to ask yourself why you are using up so many resources in each fight -- it could be time to adjust your strategies for entering fights.

Remember as a magus you need to respond to how the combat is going -- if the fighter is in a pickle back him up so he can bug out a minute. If the mooks or whatever needs to be blasted and the wizard is tied up with doing it assist the wizard with the blasting. Flank with the rogue.

In many ways you are the more dynamic end of the bard -- where he assists with direct buffs and improving his allies making his value more passive you are the agressive assist unit.

So be the special forces you are -- show up and save everyone else's bacon after they have committed to what they are doing. Truthfully the magus can actually benefit from going last in an encounter because it is in such a position that he shines -- as he can play clean up very effectively.

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