[UM] Walter's Guide to the Magus


Advice

351 to 400 of 1,668 << first < prev | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | 13 | next > last >>

WalterGM wrote:


Statistically, besides the 2-handed thing mentioned by Xykal, the rapier also does P damage instead of S, which tends to be the weaker of the two when it comes up against DR.

Happen to have lists of each?

Personally piercing has its benefits when you are underwater without freedom of movement.

-James

Shadow Lodge RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 8

james maissen wrote:
WalterGM wrote:


Statistically, besides the 2-handed thing mentioned by Xykal, the rapier also does P damage instead of S, which tends to be the weaker of the two when it comes up against DR.

Happen to have lists of each?

Personally piercing has its benefits when you are underwater without freedom of movement.

-James

Off the top of my head all I can think of is that slashing overcomes a zombie's DR, and comparatively I don't know of any that piercing overcomes (as a general rule rather).


WalterGM wrote:


Off the top of my head all I can think of is that slashing overcomes a zombie's DR, and comparatively I don't know of any that piercing overcomes (as a general rule rather).

Rakshasa?

-James


Jadeite wrote:

On another note, Quickdraw might be a rather useful feat for the magus. With Quickdraw, you can don and remove a quickdraw light shield as a free action, allowing the magus to freely use spell combat on his turn and get a shield bonus when it's not his turn.
Thanks to STR Ranger for pointing this out.

APG wrote:
Quickdraw Shield, Light Wooden or Steel: This light shield is specially crafted with a series of straps to allow a character proficient in shields to ready or stow it on his or her back quickly and easily. If you have a base attack bonus of +1 or higher, you may don or put away a quickdraw shield as a swift action combined with a regular move. If you have the Two-Weapon Fighting feat, you can draw a light or one-handed weapon with one hand and a quickdraw shield with the other in the time it would normally take you to draw one weapon. If you have the Quick Draw feat, you may don or put away a quickdraw shield as a free action.

You're welcome, but I think magus will have to blow a feat for proficiency here.

APG says:

This light shield is specially crafted with a series of straps to allow a character[bold] proficient[\bold] in shields to ready or stow it on his or her back quickly and easily.


WalterGM wrote:
That said, does anyone know of some good multiclass options with the magus? My rule of thumb for any character is usually just to stick with one class since all the pathfinder base ones got a pretty sizeable bump from 3.5, but I don't know if that's true for the magus in particular.

Sorry if this has been suggested already, and a second time because it isn't that optimal. But, in regards to the Staff Magus (especially a human one), I've found that a two level dip into Monk can be somewhat useful.

You get 2 free Monk feats at 1st level (Dodge and Combat Reflexes being the most useful). If you use the Weapon Adept archetype from the APG, you also get Precise Strike for free at 1st level, and Weapon Focus for free at 2nd level. Also, you get that awesome +3 to all saves, which is really nice since the Magus already has 2 good saves, so in a way, you get all three of the save feats for free. Unfortunately, none of the actual Monk abilities mesh well or for that long, but for me that isn't really the point. And let's not forget that your 3rd level bonus feat will be wide open to take advantage of the wording of the Quarterstaff Master feat, letting you take Weapon Specialization one level earlier than any Fighter.

Some of these free feats leave room for other feats, or are good prereqs for other feats that might be useful for a Staff Magus. For example, potentially Mobility and then Spring Attack (if your GM let's you get away with using it in conjunction with Spellstrike), which will then open up Whirlwind Attack (since all you'll need is Combat Expertise and the bab for it).

The trip feats are also an obvious choice (especially Greater Trip for making enemies provoke AoOs...and you'll already have Combat Reflexes to get multiple AoOs in a round), but I haven't play tested this kind of build, so I can't guarantee the usefulness. It just seems fun to play. Imagine using Tripping Twirl to make all your surrounding enemies prone, then you can use Whirlwind Attack on your next action. It might be situational, but I still like the idea of it. Not to mention you can cast a touch attack spell on one of them (especially if it's a boss).

I don't know if this has any room in your guide, but I thought I'd just put it out there anyway. Maybe someone else can take what I did and make it better, or better explain how all the feats work together.

Dark Archive

1 person marked this as a favorite.
submit2me wrote:
WalterGM wrote:
That said, does anyone know of some good multiclass options with the magus? My rule of thumb for any character is usually just to stick with one class since all the pathfinder base ones got a pretty sizeable bump from 3.5, but I don't know if that's true for the magus in particular.

Stuff

A dip into Monk does give you some nice perks but so far my favorite dip class for Magus has to be the Alchemist.

It's ability scores match what you're shooting for to keep the MAD down while adding a few great spells to your available buffs, especially since they'll be in a extract format so no spell failure there. Add a mutagen in to buff any stat you want (I like the cognatagens) as well as a nice melee bump on damage from the sneak attack (vivisectionist) and ranged options (throw anything).

A 2 level dip into Alchemist gives you a nice bump to your Fort and Reflex saves as well as access to the Vestigial Arm/Tentacle discoveries. Nothing like always two handing your weapon and still being able to cast and/or use a metamagic rod.

Make him a Hexcrafter/Vivisectionist/Dervish Dancer and you would get to keep power Attack (2hd version), while casting with a metamagic rod and threatening everything within 10-20 feet (lunge and or enlarge person)

Nastiness.


Here's an idea for the Magus/Cleric/Mystic Theurge with Broad Study (I don't know if this has been brought up, but here it goes anyways).

What if you put a Cure spell in your Whip with Spellstrike and whipped an ally? Since it has reach, you can get the Cure from further away.

I think that'd be great for a Cleric of Calistria, since it is the "Savored Sting".


Beonarri wrote:

Here's an idea for the Magus/Cleric/Mystic Theurge with Broad Study (I don't know if this has been brought up, but here it goes anyways).

What if you put a Cure spell in your Whip with Spellstrike and whipped an ally? Since it has reach, you can get the Cure from further away.

I think that'd be great for a Cleric of Calistria, since it is the "Savored Sting".

Or you take reach spell as a cleric, not have to roll to hit and cure from (much) farther away.

Think that you'd be talking about magus6/cleric3 there (as broad study requires magus6) so the cleric is casting a cure that's 3 full levels down.. so in perspective with reach spell the pure cleric is casting the same spell at long range.. 400ft+40ft/level!

Lastly if you want to do this with a cleric of Calistria just get a spell storing whip.

I mean it sounds cute, but the mechanics make it so subpar that other ways of going about it really have to be considered.

-James


james maissen wrote:


I mean it sounds cute, but the mechanics make it so subpar that other ways of going about it really have to be considered.

The basic Magus/Cleric/Mystic Theurge really isn't that bad.

I would go with Magus 7/Cleric 3/Mystic Theurge 10. The BAB is going to be +12, so you are down by +3, but this isn't as bad as it could be -- you have divine favor early which helps make up for the lack of BAB, as well as righteous might later. Since spell combat will be helping your action economy it is conceivable you will have the actions needed to get all your buffs out. Your save throws are going to be alright (at level 20 you are looking at +13 +6 +11 which is better than most multiclassing/prestige classing will give you), and you can cast all your spells in medium armor -- spell synthesis while late game will be rather interesting for getting multiple spells out quickly while still full attacking. Having heal isn't going to be a bad thing for a 'front line' type character and the clerical buffing spells are going to stack with your magus buffing for the most part (though not always).

The hardest part is going to be the MAD of the build -- but even here it doesn't have to be horribly MAD. It has been established that the magus can survive on lower intelligence, and honestly with the clerical side you don't need that much wisdom to stick to buffs and summons/what not.

Clerics also make some great use of intensify spell. By using the spell switching abilities of the mystic theurge you can put the damage dealing spells you want to use (that might allow a save throw) on the casting side with a better DC and increase your chances of hurting your foe with some intensify spell as well -- now this isn't going to be prefect of course (increasing spells by 2 levels simply to cast them and get extra damage hurts)... but it isn't a gimp either.


Abraham spalding wrote:


The basic Magus/Cleric/Mystic Theurge really isn't that bad.

I would go with Magus 7/Cleric 3/Mystic Theurge 10.

Again we disagree.

Divine favor is great, when you have the chance to cast it. But when you are that's when you're not casting something else.

Not to mention all that you give up to get this.. it doesn't add up well.

-James


james maissen wrote:
Or you take reach spell as a cleric, not have to roll to hit and cure from (much) farther away.

I don't know that you need a roll to attack a willing ally. Maybe one to see that you don't totally screw up (1) or attack them brilliantly (20). I can't think of a time when this has come up for me. It was just a random thought that moseyed into my brain last night.

But moving on to Magus 7/Cleric 3/Mystic Theurge 10, which is mentioned in the guide and earlier in this thread, is actually a nice blend of options, which from what I've gathered from playing a Magus, is what the character is all about. He's not going to be as good a Cleric as a pure Cleric, but he's already a Magus who's a mix of warrior/mage anyways, so he's used to being not-the-best-at-something. Comparing this character to a pure character is just not fair and, honestly, near irrelevant. It's like comparing his arcane casting to the Wizard or his melee fighting to the Fighter. This character is something different.

Plus, this concept of using a whip for reach touching goes beyond healing. For attacking, he can mix in Harm, which even on a successful save ends up dealing 65 damage. That's not something to scoff at with a whip. He also gets the Inflict spells (with yummy d8s) and can use the Cure spells against undead, and these can go with his Scimitar or whatever weapon. If this attacking an ally with the whip thing actually works, then he can hand out touch-based buffs as well.

I think the biggest advantages here are the options you get from having two spells lists. He's got a 17th level Magus list AND a 13th level Cleric list, so he can keep the Magus standard stuff with Intensified Shocking Grasps, Frigid Touch, etc., etc. mixed with the aforementioned Inflicts, with the curing, with the divine buffs. Beyond the spell lists, he can get his Arcana to hit/defend himself better, plus those starter Cleric Domain abilities (and if you go with Calistria, you can get Bit of Luck and that Mirror Image one, both of which are awesome).

I kinda want to make one now, he's kinda like a "Red Mage". Too bad my current Magus is Bladebound, or I'd do it.


Beonarri wrote:
For attacking, he can mix in Harm, which even on a successful save ends up dealing 65 damage. That's not something to scoff at with a whip.

At 20th level it certainly is something at which to scoff.

This is what I mean about people loosing perspective when looking at 20th level builds.

-James


james maissen wrote:
Beonarri wrote:
For attacking, he can mix in Harm, which even on a successful save ends up dealing 65 damage. That's not something to scoff at with a whip.

At 20th level it certainly is something at which to scoff.

This is what I mean about people loosing perspective when looking at 20th level builds.

-James

That's the minimum, with a whip. I want to stress that it's a whip. It's a whip attack that deals 65 or 130 damage.

130 damage. With a whip.

I didn't really want to play the "my damage is bigger" game, but I will say that if he nixes the whip, picks up his scimitar (or actually, with this guy, Spell Combat isn't that great, so a larger weapon might be better for him, like an Elven Curve Blade, but I digress, this is another can o' worms I don't want to open right now) he can throw around a pretty good chunk of damage.

Spell Synthesis lets him cast two spells of the same casting time in one action. Let's say Harm (130 negative energy) and Shocking Grasp (Lineage Intensified, 10d6, 11d6 with his weapon) and mix them together. Because of the wording of Spellstrike, he can freely make melee attacks with these.

Since the endgame big hits are based around the "if he scores a critical hit" concept (at least, the Fighter my friend ran was based around it), I'll say that if he scores a critical hit, it's 260 (unless Harm works differently, which I doubt) and/or 22d6 damage. Through rod abuse, it's 66 or 132 electric tickles. So, something like 131 minimum, 197 medium, and 392 maximum, not counting additional damages thrown in through Pooling, not counting his Str/Dex, and not counting any bad mathematics I probably made.

Is he going to always out damage a crit-farming Fighter? No, of course not, that's not his role. He's not a min/maxed over-optimized character, he's a fifth character through-and-through. He's not something to laugh at though. If the Fighter/Rogue/Alchemist is down or out for whatever reason he can do a little burst to keep things going. And this is one option amongst his many, many others.

Plus, it's a whip. A whip that deals 130 damage.


Beonarri wrote:


That's the minimum, with a whip. I want to stress that it's a whip. It's a whip attack that deals 65 or 130 damage.

130 damage. With a whip.

130 damage on a failed FORT save. With a whip. At 20th level!.

The last part is really the key issue here.

Let's say that your poor creature fails a FORT save 1 out of 4 times. That seems reasonable. If your stat (and recall this character has lots of stat issues) has a +11 modifier (ie WIS 32) then we're looking at a 27DC or so (adjusting for feats).. so I'm only giving the target roughly a +21 FORT save (which frankly is LOW at this level). So anyway on average he deals around 81-82 damage.

Now let's take a look at a 13th level character (magus11/cross blooded orc/blue dragon sorcerer1) casting a magical lineaged intensified empowered shocking grasp for around 82-83 damage.

Now the 20th level character is using a 6th level spell (and his top for that casting list is 7th level). Meanwhile the 13th level character is using a 3rd level spell (and his top is 4th) so that's about even but can use an arcane pool point to bring it back as a swift action.

So is it decent damage? Well it depends. For the 12th level character I'd say that yes it's decent damage.. with a whip (other PCs can do more with other weapons.. but -with a whip-!!). But by 20th level.. he should be able to do better than the 12th level PC!

Please understand.. I'm saying that this level of damage for 20th level is not impressive. Moreover just looking at PCs at 20th level is misleading as most people don't have a gauge on what to expect from that level. Pick a level at which you're used to playing as you'll have more of a feel for it.

Obviously we can agree that the character level matters here, right? I mean if the PC were 1st level then 65 would be ridiculous damage, but by 20th level it's not even impressive damage with a whip... as really this can be seen by a 12th level PC (well really even an 11th level PC, the 12th level one can just swiftly recall the spell to use it again and again).

-James


I do agree with you that he's not the greatest damage dealer. I was saying he's not a slouch. Plus there's more than just damage to consider, he has options. Healing, buffing, debuffing, controlling, off-tanking, and more I'm probably over looking.

If I wanted a ridiculous damager I'd be an Alchemist, Rogue, Fighter, or even pure Magus.

I should mention I don't base character usefulness off of damage, that's just the issue that came up. Like I said, I didn't want to play "my damage is bigger"", I just wanted to point out that this particular Magus build wasn't a putz. He'd definitely be a little behind compared to the 12th level character you mentioned as a Magus 7/Cleric 3/Mystic Theurge 2, but he's still got other things he can do. That's just the nature of multiclassing like this, and I didn't mean any bad-blood or insult or arrogance in my little damage write up.


james maissen wrote:
Abraham spalding wrote:


The basic Magus/Cleric/Mystic Theurge really isn't that bad.

I would go with Magus 7/Cleric 3/Mystic Theurge 10.

Again we disagree.

Divine favor is great, when you have the chance to cast it. But when you are that's when you're not casting something else.

Not to mention all that you give up to get this.. it doesn't add up well.

-James

Except you have time to cast it any time you are full attacking -- spell combat. Also arcane accuracy can help with the first round attacks while you are getting your buff on (so to speak).

Again I'm not saying its going to be an 'uber elite' sort of build -- but it will be solid.


Abraham spalding wrote:


Except you have time to cast it any time you are full attacking -- spell combat. Also arcane accuracy can help with the first round attacks while you are getting your buff on (so to speak).

Again I'm not saying its going to be an 'uber elite' sort of build -- but it will be solid.

Yes you're better off than a non-magus that would rely on divine favor.. but when you compare it to another magus then it's not the advantage.

You put up the divine favor the other magus gets to put up a mirror image, etc.

I'm not so sure how solid it would be, especially at mid levels.

It would be interesting to see it planned out a bit to fully look at it. Not by 20th but along the way.. say from 8th to 12th or so. Also the stat array (say on a 20pt buy) and feat choices. It seems the 2 magus arcana are already locked in. I'm a little worried how you will afford the arcane accuracy with a pool of 3+INT.

I'm not looking for 'uber elite' but I am looking to see if it would compare reasonably to just a pure magus build. Now the magus class abilities after 7th are weak with the exception of improved spell recall imho, so you're mostly down scaling on weapon boosts, arcane pool points and BAB.. that's assuming that you don't need heavy armor.

-James


Well level 8 is going to be a poor place to test it as you are basically still a magus (I would go with magus 7/cleric 1 at that point) -- I did a build of this in another thread -- I don't remember where but I covered the ins and outs of it pretty fairly I think.

The issues I see are going to be:
levels 1~7 you are a magus -- nothing special here just with a higher wisdom.
levels 8~10 a bit risky here due to the three levels of cleric, but still manageable. You're a bit like a paladin here -- you got some healing, but not much, and some divine magic. What's going to help you here is some very careful domain choices (standard actions on the first round while you close to help with attacking) and use of spells like bless and divine favor.
Levels 11+ Now you start into your theurge levels. Up until this point you really hadn't lost that much BAB (at level 10 you actually had a +7 still) here on out however that's going to change -- and not for the better. However the drop in BAB isn't as bad as it could be -- at level 12 for example you'll be +8 compared to +9 for the average magus, and make up for it with easy use of divine favor or prayer (I recommend prayer over divine favor at this point) at level 16 you'll be looking at a +10 compared to +12 -- this is the point it honestly hurts since you lose an attack in your favor though you have 5th level divine spells (and 5th level magus spells).

You'll need to invest more than a 'standard' magus in your weapon to make up for your lack of arcane pool bonus to spread around, but you'll have magic vestment to help with your armor costs. Transformation spells might be your biggest tool, though you'll be able to full attack and cast heal on yourself (or full attack and cast harm on the enemy).

Over all I would probably go with magus 8 cleric 4 mystic theurge 8 -- that's +13 BAB and sixth level casting in both magus and cleric.

Another thought would be magus 8 druid 4 mystic theurge 8. There is a feat in ultimate magic that allows you to treat your druid level as 4 higher (up to your hit dice) for your wild shaping which gives you a nice constant boost and natural weapons to use to attack with (bypassing some of the problems with your lowered BAB).

The basic assumptions for me align like this:

Loss of arcane pool weapon boosting, and weak higher level options (not all are but still enough are), lower BAB -- uninterested in heavy armor so a dexterity build might be in order (magus of sarenrae maybe).

Gain Clerical spell casting as a 12~13th level cleric (meaning heal, righteous might, death ward, freedom of movement, greater restoration, summoning, etc) some domain powers (there are a couple of good lower level ones) and a near useless channel energy.

Alternately:
Druid casting through 12~13th level and wild shape as an 8th level druid.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

How does a magus use any metamagic rod? It has to be in hand when used. With one hand casting a spell and the other wielding a weapon, I don't see how this works without having more than two arms.


Ravingdork wrote:
How does a magus use any metamagic rod? It has to be in hand when used. With one hand casting a spell and the other wielding a weapon, I don't see how this works without having more than two arms.

Well that's why I said the hexcrafter isn't a bad choice -- prehensile hair can use the metamagic rod. Also an alchemist dip for the use of cure wands, mutagen and an extra arm isn't a horrible idea either.

Also you could simply use a metamagic rod as a weapon and get it enhanced as a light mace.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Abraham spalding wrote:
Also you could simply use a metamagic rod as a weapon and get it enhanced as a light mace.

Assuming your GM approves of course.

The idea had crossed my mind as well. In fact, I already have a magus on file whose weapon also functions as a spell staff.


Ravingdork wrote:
Abraham spalding wrote:
Also you could simply use a metamagic rod as a weapon and get it enhanced as a light mace.

Assuming your GM approves of course.

The idea had crossed my mind as well. In fact, I already have a magus on file whose weapon also functions as a spell staff.

Like say a staff magus?


Ravingdork wrote:
How does a magus use any metamagic rod?

Quickdraw?

-James


You guys are impressive! I am bad at figuring out which feats complement another or enhance it. I was going to play a barbarian in my next campaign but now the Magus looks intriguing.

So after reading (not always fully understanding) all the posts I will ask a simple question.

If I wanted to play a Bladebound Magus would I be better off as a human with a scimitar? or half elf with a falcata?


Amric wrote:

You guys are impressive! I am bad at figuring out which feats complement another or enhance it. I was going to play a barbarian in my next campaign but now the Magus looks intriguing.

So after reading (not always fully understanding) all the posts I will ask a simple question.

If I wanted to play a Bladebound Magus would I be better off as a human with a scimitar? or half elf with a falcata?

I'm running a Bladebound Hexcrafter.

He's been pretty nice so far, but he doesn't take off until 3rd level. I'm using the Weapon Finesse > Dervish Dance thing so he can use his Dexterity for attack and damage.

Unfortunately for the half-elf (I'm going to take a wild guess and say you're going for that Variant Racial Trait to get Exotic Weapon Mastery) requires BAB +1, which the Magus doesn't start with.

Though a Falcata would be awesome with its high crit and x3. You'd have to stick Strength as your main melee stat, which is still usable of course, as the guide points out. I think the scimitar is a little better though, since its crit range is greater, but that's all up to how you want your character to work/look.

I can't wait for next level with Evil Eye then Lunge and Arcane Strike at 5th level. He'll be stepping around the battle field and lunging with Spellstrike, generally being a huge hassle.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Abraham spalding wrote:
Ravingdork wrote:
Abraham spalding wrote:
Also you could simply use a metamagic rod as a weapon and get it enhanced as a light mace.

Assuming your GM approves of course.

The idea had crossed my mind as well. In fact, I already have a magus on file whose weapon also functions as a spell staff.

Like say a staff magus?

More like a scythe. He can't use spell combat with it normally, but with his wand wielder arcana he can cast spells from it as he cutting enemies apart.

He also has a highly magical spiked gauntlet, just in case he needs to use spell combat for real.


I actually sort of like the mental image of a magus/druid. Especially if you turned into a form with multiple natural attacks.

Would you somehow be able to combine spellstrike/spell combat with pounce? At the very least, it's a decent way to get off multiple Chill Touch charges while still doing decent melee damage.

And are your natural weapons while shifted considered valid targets for Arcane Pool?

"Did that bear just maul me with a shocking grasp?!"

If your GM allows it, the Arcane Hierophant PrC from 3.5 would actually work out quite nicely with a combination like that. It's essentially a theurge, but allows you to continue to advance your companion and wild shape, while merging your companion with your familiar, netting you a rather intelligent companion with some extra abilities.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Amric wrote:

You guys are impressive! I am bad at figuring out which feats complement another or enhance it. I was going to play a barbarian in my next campaign but now the Magus looks intriguing.

So after reading (not always fully understanding) all the posts I will ask a simple question.

If I wanted to play a Bladebound Magus would I be better off as a human with a scimitar? or half elf with a falcata?

I still intend to play my next magus as an elf with a longsword.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Ravingdork wrote:
How does a magus use any metamagic rod?

The same way a wizard does.... outside of melee. Because the magus has spell combat does not mean that she is excluded from casting the standard way.


SunsetPsychosis wrote:

I actually sort of like the mental image of a magus/druid. Especially if you turned into a form with multiple natural attacks.

Would you somehow be able to combine spellstrike/spell combat with pounce? At the very least, it's a decent way to get off multiple Chill Touch charges while still doing decent melee damage.

And are your natural weapons while shifted considered valid targets for Arcane Pool?

"Did that bear just maul me with a shocking grasp?!"

Spellstrike says weapon attack. Spell Combat says Two-Weapon Fighting with a one-hand weapon in your main and the spell in your "off-hand" though it's not actually a weapon.

Maybe Ultimate Combat will have something about using Natural Attacks with Spellstrike.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
LazarX wrote:
Ravingdork wrote:
How does a magus use any metamagic rod?
The same way a wizard does.... outside of melee. Because the magus has spell combat does not mean that she is excluded from casting the standard way.

Yes, I knew that already. Still, people seem to be using it in an optimal (if illegal) manner, such as with spell combat.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Ravingdork wrote:
LazarX wrote:
Ravingdork wrote:
How does a magus use any metamagic rod?
The same way a wizard does.... outside of melee. Because the magus has spell combat does not mean that she is excluded from casting the standard way.
Yes, I knew that already. Still, people seem to be using it in an optimal (if illegal) manner, such as with spell combat.

IF it's illegal, it's not optimal because I won't allow it on any table I judge. I'm not sure those things are available in PFS anyway which imposes a big spending cap based on PA.


Prepare for the noobish question:

First time spell caster so I dont expect to be the best magus ever but how do I get Shocking Grasp to 10d6? I read the guide a few times and looked over the meta magic but still the spell reads 5d6 maximum. What did I miss?

Thanks in advance guys..


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Morely wrote:

Prepare for the noobish question:

First time spell caster so I dont expect to be the best magus ever but how do I get Shocking Grasp to 10d6? I read the guide a few times and looked over the meta magic but still the spell reads 5d6 maximum. What did I miss?

Thanks in advance guys..

There's a metamagic feat from Ultimate Magic called Intensified Spell that allows you to up the damage cap by 5 levels for +1 level slot. So if you are a 10th-level magus, you could hit someone with a 10d6 shocking grasp for a 2nd-level spell slot.


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

First off, I think this guide is wonderful and a great compilation of advise. One thing I am struggling with is the weapon of choice for the magus being the scimitar. I have a character created for Kingmaker with the Sword Scion trait; +1 trait bonus to attack with either the Aldori dueling sword or long sword.

Using the strenght build, the Dervish Dance is not allowed, can you show me why a scimitar is the better choice over the long sword? Assume the only difference is the Sword Scion trait and long sword wielder and the scimitar wielder have the same feats and attributes.

Thanks,
Doug


Beonarri wrote:
SunsetPsychosis wrote:

I actually sort of like the mental image of a magus/druid. Especially if you turned into a form with multiple natural attacks.

Would you somehow be able to combine spellstrike/spell combat with pounce? At the very least, it's a decent way to get off multiple Chill Touch charges while still doing decent melee damage.

And are your natural weapons while shifted considered valid targets for Arcane Pool?

"Did that bear just maul me with a shocking grasp?!"

Spellstrike says weapon attack. Spell Combat says Two-Weapon Fighting with a one-hand weapon in your main and the spell in your "off-hand" though it's not actually a weapon.

Maybe Ultimate Combat will have something about using Natural Attacks with Spellstrike.

Is it only monks, then, that have their unarmed attacks considered both natural and manufactured light weapons for the purposes of special abilities?


SunsetPsychosis wrote:
Beonarri wrote:
SunsetPsychosis wrote:

I actually sort of like the mental image of a magus/druid. Especially if you turned into a form with multiple natural attacks.

Would you somehow be able to combine spellstrike/spell combat with pounce? At the very least, it's a decent way to get off multiple Chill Touch charges while still doing decent melee damage.

And are your natural weapons while shifted considered valid targets for Arcane Pool?

"Did that bear just maul me with a shocking grasp?!"

Spellstrike says weapon attack. Spell Combat says Two-Weapon Fighting with a one-hand weapon in your main and the spell in your "off-hand" though it's not actually a weapon.

Maybe Ultimate Combat will have something about using Natural Attacks with Spellstrike.

Is it only monks, then, that have their unarmed attacks considered both natural and manufactured light weapons for the purposes of special abilities?

You are correct Sir!!


DougErvin wrote:

First off, I think this guide is wonderful and a great compilation of advise. One thing I am struggling with is the weapon of choice for the magus being the scimitar. I have a character created for Kingmaker with the Sword Scion trait; +1 trait bonus to attack with either the Aldori dueling sword or long sword.

Using the strenght build, the Dervish Dance is not allowed, can you show me why a scimitar is the better choice over the long sword? Assume the only difference is the Sword Scion trait and long sword wielder and the scimitar wielder have the same feats and attributes.

Thanks,
Doug

Most magus PCs deliver a majority of their damage via channeled spells (e.g. intensified shocking grasps) and having a wider crit range gives a decent bonus there.

If heirloom weapon is allowed then you could have the +1 trait bonus to attack with a scimitar instead of sword scion's +1 trait bonus to hit with a long sword.

When it's keen the respective threat ranges are 15-20 vs 17-20.. essentially 10% more of all attacks made will be crits with a scimitar. Assuming we're talking about delivering just a non-empowered shocking grasp that's along the lines of 35 damage.. so you're talking 3.5 more expected damage compared to around 1 x chance to hit more non-crit damage.

Now a longsword does more damage than a scimitar, on average 1 more (for medium sized). But you have to factor in the chance to hit there to get to expected damage. So if for all of your attacks you have on average 3.5 hits expected then you'll break even.

If you expect to be enlarged a lot of the time the damage disparity increases to 2.5 on average and then the longsword might fare better with a reasonable amount of expected hits.

Of course this is just figuring for a non-empowered intensified shocking grasp (CL 10). For spells that deal more of course it the threat range is even more important.

-James


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

James,

Thank you for the explanation that cleared up a lot.

Doug


One thing I would point out is that Magical lineage + close range + ray of frost+ rime spell gives you an extra attack that includes a no-save entangle that you can spam over and over and can come online by 3rd level. Not too shabby.

Overall, I like close range as a low-level arcana since a) it doesn't cost arcane pool like the other early arcana and b) it gives you more options. Admittedly, you'll need to use blended learning to really take advantage of it (at least until more splatbooks come out that increase the magus spell list) but you'll probably be doing that a lot anyway.


WalterGM wrote:
Helaman wrote:
Besides the Dervish feat, is there any reason why Rapier is not an option? So for instance, in a game where the Dervish feat was not used, would Rapier and Scimitar be considered equally good?

Statistically, besides the 2-handed thing mentioned by Xykal, the rapier also does P damage instead of S, which tends to be the weaker of the two when it comes up against DR.

A few pages back someone was looking for a .pdf link to the guide. Here it is: WaltersGuidetotheMagus.pdf

Thank you.


Slight correction to the guide: You have Frostbite listed as doing only 1d6 damage, where it actually does 1d6+level. Because you also get a number of attacks with it equal to your level, it makes a fairly powerful mid-level attack spell, especially for a lvl 1 spell slot.

Example: Level 10, you cast it, get a free melee attack, and get your additional 2 attacks for the round = potentially 3d6+30 damage + fatigue. The damage is however non-lethal, which may or may not be a problem for some people.


james maissen wrote:
WalterGM wrote:


Off the top of my head all I can think of is that slashing overcomes a zombie's DR, and comparatively I don't know of any that piercing overcomes (as a general rule rather).

Rakshasa?

-James

Several sorcerer bloodlines give dr/piercing and some of the new monsters in the bestiary 2 have dr/piercing.


WalterGM wrote:


My main concern with arcane strike was that I don't believe it stacks with the augmentation provided by your power pool. I know that weapon enhancements stack, but I'm unsure if the feat and the class ability would allow them to stack. If they did, then the feat would surely be justified in a second star. And my reasoning for ranking specialization higher was that you didn't have to use a swift action to get the +2, you just always had it.

they don't stack:

message board

My GM ruled that arcane mark wouldn't be allowable for the free attack in spell combat. With that in mind, I really like the Close Range arcana (there's an acid and cold based lvl0 spell that grants a ranged touch attack).

Ultimate Magic also brings in a bunch of fun stuff (archetypes rock). I'm currently playing a HexCrafting Magus (half-elf, ancestral arms, falcata) and have a bunch of fun flying around smacking things (took Fly long before I could cast 3rd level spells). The bladebound would be fun however we're playing Legacy of Fire (and certain thematic elements would get weird as we progressed -- let's just say the half-elf has more working against him than just a low charisma score).


Flingeon wrote:
WalterGM wrote:


My main concern with arcane strike was that I don't believe it stacks with the augmentation provided by your power pool. I know that weapon enhancements stack, but I'm unsure if the feat and the class ability would allow them to stack. If they did, then the feat would surely be justified in a second star. And my reasoning for ranking specialization higher was that you didn't have to use a swift action to get the +2, you just always had it.

they don't stack:

message board

My GM ruled that arcane mark wouldn't be allowable for the free attack in spell combat. With that in mind, I really like the Close Range arcana (there's an acid and cold based lvl0 spell that grants a ranged touch attack).

Ultimate Magic also brings in a bunch of fun stuff (archetypes rock). I'm currently playing a HexCrafting Magus (half-elf, ancestral arms, falcata) and have a bunch of fun flying around smacking things (took Fly long before I could cast 3rd level spells). The bladebound would be fun however we're playing Legacy of Fire (and certain thematic elements would get weird as we progressed -- let's just say the half-elf has more working against him than just a low charisma score).

Ok first of all that post is over 7 months old and since there isn't nothing in the current wording of the class (which is the final one and not a playtest one) to prevent that then it stacks. In addition you can't use acid splash with close range only ray of frost.


They need to errata Arcane strike if that's true, currently it is still untyped. Also, I think those posts were made while the Magus was still in the play test/feedback/tweak phase of the class.

The devs could of backed away from not having them stack. I believe at one point, Arcane strike was a feat given to the Magus automatically as part of its class progression.

Until there's official errata, should proceed as is. Of course, GMs can decide otherwise as a house rule.

Grand Lodge

spell strike (for casting a spell) generates an AoO

Grand Lodge

Helaman wrote:
spell strike (for casting a spell) generates an AoO

That was a question but I found the answer as yes


Helaman wrote:
Helaman wrote:
spell strike (for casting a spell) generates an AoO
That was a question but I found the answer as yes

Why wouldn't it? Assuming you don't cast defensively of course.


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

WalterGM, are you planning on including the new magus arcana from Ultimate Combat in your guide. Just from the little I have seen, don't have the PDF yet, they are better than the ones in UM. If the one line description of "Accurate Strike: make attacks as touch attacks for 1 round" is correct it is beyond blue. Sure it can only be used a couple of times a day but it could change the balance of an encounter. Jaberwock, AC 40, Touch 14, the difference is significant. A spellstrike of Frigid Touch combined with a crit could significantly soften up the jaberwock.

351 to 400 of 1,668 << first < prev | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | 13 | next > last >>
Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder First Edition / Advice / [UM] Walter's Guide to the Magus All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.