[UM] Walter's Guide to the Magus


Advice

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Jeremias wrote:

My GM did make clear what he thinks of the "Arcane Mark"-Trick. I'm thinking about "Close Range" as an Arcana on 3rd level, would you say that it is still worthless?

I'm playing as a Kensai, so I am a little bit low on spells per day and would surely like to add all of the touch cantrips to my bag of tricks.

Or is there something nicer out there?

Hexcrafter gets Brand which is a touch spell and a cantrip.


You cannot combine Hexcrafter with Kensai.


Spell Blending Arcana or similar feat (Expanded Arcana?) would allow you to get Touch of Fatigue. That's a good staple spell to use with spell combat.


Touch of Fatigue is either 3rd party or 3.5, I'm sure this won't be allowed.

Silver Crusade

Touch of Fatigue is from the CRB.

Dark Archive

1 person marked this as a favorite.

A much cheaper and easier way to get touch of fatigue is to pick up a Cracked Orange Prism ioun stone for 1000 GP. It allows you to add any cantrip or orison to your list of spells known. Grab all the touch rabge zero level spells this way and save your feats/discoveries for more important uses.


@Bigdaddyjug&Gherrick
My Bad! My first search only revealed a spell named exactly the same from a 3rd party source. After your second post I found the correct one.

@Mathwei
Great idea! Thanks! As Fluff I took "Craft: Jeweler", that would be a nice use of that.


If you really want touch of fatigue, you can always take the two world magic trait.


@Mathwei
Alas, inferiour Ioun Stones are also not Core.

@Zan
The character is already in play.


So, I have a question on two rounds of attacks.

Let's say I use spell combat before engaging in combat and I cast Shocking Grasp on my weapon.

*poof* my weapon is now ready to hit something with a magic attack + weapon damange.

However, I am really far away from the enemy and decide to just move up and not hit anything. Thereby sacrificing the other "normal" attack action. This still keeps the Shocking Grasp Touch Attack on the sword, right?

If so. At the next round, can I move up to my enemy, use the "normal" attack action and expend Shocking Grasp and then with "spell strike" recast Shocking Grasp and hit again with another Shocking Grasp?

Here's another way of looking at it if it's confusing.

Spellstrike basically gives me two attacks, one with magic and the other normal.

I cast on round one but don't hit anything, or maybe even miss a target.

At the start of the next round, shocking grasp is still on the weapon. Begin Spell Casting, hit first with the normal attack (which still has the shocking grasp on it from the previous round), and then spellstrike with shocking grasp for the magic attack. Thereby doing 2 shocking grasps in one quasi attack?

Make sense? Is it possible?

Silver Crusade

Knighthood wrote:

So, I have a question on two rounds of attacks.

Let's say I use spell combat before engaging in combat and I cast Shocking Grasp on my weapon.

That is not how this works. Spell Combat is a Full-Round Action. The character can only make a 5' step. Spell Combat is not something you'd use before engaging the enemy.

Knighthood wrote:

*poof* my weapon is now ready to hit something with a magic attack + weapon damange.

However, I am really far away from the enemy and decide to just move up and not hit anything. Thereby sacrificing the other "normal" attack action. This still keeps the Shocking Grasp Touch Attack on the sword, right?

You may Hold the charge of your Touch Attack spell indefinitely. There are restrictions, like you cannot touch things or you discharge. The touch spell, not...nevermind. If you cast another spell or such, the spell dissipates. Either way, the touch spell is on your hand. A completely different ability, Spellstrike, lets you then deliver that charge through your weapon as an attack if you choose to.

Knighthood wrote:
If so. At the next round, can I move up to my enemy, use the "normal" attack action and expend Shocking Grasp and then with "spell strike" recast Shocking Grasp and hit again with another Shocking Grasp?

All right. So in turn 1 you cast Shock Grasp and moved up to the bad guy.

Turn 2 you may use a Full-round Action to activate Spell Combat and make all of your attacks and cast a spell in either order. Since you have Shocking Grasp ready, you may take your attack action to hit the bad guy taking into account all appropriate modifiers to deliver the first charge.
-If you miss you can abort your attack and move instead.
-If you hit and deliver the charge, you can continue with the Full-round Action and cast your spell, in this case Shocking Grasp.
As part of casting Shocking Grasp you get to make a touch attack to give someone the jolting finger. With Spellstrike you may choose to make a melee attack to deliver the charge instead.

Or in short.
Yes you can make two attacks with Shocking Grasp on them in Turn 2.

Knighthood wrote:

Here's another way of looking at it if it's confusing.

Spellstrike basically gives me two attacks, one with magic and the other normal.

I cast on round one but don't hit anything, or maybe even miss a target.

At the start of the next round, shocking grasp is still on the weapon. Begin Spell Casting, hit first with the normal attack (which still has the shocking grasp on it from the previous round), and then spellstrike with shocking grasp for the magic attack. Thereby doing 2 shocking grasps in one quasi attack?

Make sense? Is it possible?

Yes it makes sense. Yes it is possible.

Read this post by Grick to see how I learned the answers to your questions.


ErrantPursuit wrote:

Turn 2 you may use a Full-round Action to activate Spell Combat and make all of your attacks and cast a spell in either order. Since you have Shocking Grasp ready, you may take your attack action to hit the bad guy taking into account all appropriate modifiers to deliver the first charge.

-If you miss you can abort your attack and move instead.

Just a note: if you use spell combat you cannot move even if you abort the rest of your attacks. Spell combat is a full round action, but it's not a full attack, that's afaik the only kind of action that let you forgo the rest of attacks in exchange for a move.


Knighthood wrote:

...

Spellstrike basically gives me two attacks, one with magic and the other normal.

I cast on round one but don't hit anything, or maybe even miss a target.

At the start of the next round, shocking grasp is still on the weapon. Begin Spell Casting, hit first with the normal attack (which still has the shocking grasp on it from the previous round), and then spellstrike with shocking grasp for the magic attack. Thereby doing 2 shocking grasps in one quasi attack?

Make sense? Is it possible?

No spellstrike does not give you 2 attacks!

Edit: spellstrike allow you to use the weapon to deliver touch attacks via normal attacks.

You get another ability. Spell combat, spell combat will allow you to cast a spell with your left hand and full attack with your rigth.

If the spell you cast when using spell combat is a spell that involve a touch attack you can use that with your spell strike abbility.

The magus can be confusing if you dont seperate the two, spellstrike and spell combat, very clearly in your mind.
Edit2: spelling


Ok, next set of questions.

Since Shocking Grasp is appears to be the end-all-be-all attack component of the Magus, I wanted to beef it up a bit with metamagic feats.

So, here are a few things:

Current Metamagic Feats:

Intensify Spell

Current Traits:
Magical Lineage (Shocking Grasp)

I was thinking about adding in two more extra metamagic feats:

Piercing Spell
Maximize Spell

Now, piercing spell will raise Shocking Grasp up to a lvl 2 spell slot, and then with Maximize it would become a lvl 5 spell slot. However, I made a deal with my DM, since I did an amazingly awesome thing in the game and received a gift from some dragons, to have him give me Spell Perfection.

Spell Perfection only works if I have 3 metamagic feats. Sooooo, with the following:

Intensify, Piercing, & Maximize that would make Shocking Grasp a lvl 6

However, add in Magical Lineage and Spell Perfection, it brings it back down to a lvl 2 spell slot.

Which means, I get to run around like crazy and every round when I use shocking grasp I'm doing 60 damage plus weapon and other procs!!! Sheer joy!!!! :p

However, before I follow through with this, I wanted to ask the community if it's a decent path to follow. My next two feats are acquired at 8 and 10 (I'm currently lvl 7), should I even indulge this and waste those two feat slots for those two metamagic feats in order to satisfy Spell Perfection? Or should I ask for some other gift and look towards other feats?

Discuss


Knighthood wrote:

Ok, next set of questions.

Since Shocking Grasp is appears to be the end-all-be-all attack component of the Magus, I wanted to beef it up a bit with metamagic feats.

So, here are a few things:

Current Metamagic Feats:

Intensify Spell

Current Traits:
Magical Lineage (Shocking Grasp)

I was thinking about adding in two more extra metamagic feats:

Piercing Spell
Maximize Spell

Now, piercing spell will raise Shocking Grasp up to a lvl 2 spell slot, and then with Maximize it would become a lvl 5 spell slot. However, I made a deal with my DM, since I did an amazingly awesome thing in the game and received a gift from some dragons, to have him give me Spell Perfection.

Spell Perfection only works if I have 3 metamagic feats. Sooooo, with the following:

Intensify, Piercing, & Maximize that would make Shocking Grasp a lvl 6

However, add in Magical Lineage and Spell Perfection, it brings it back down to a lvl 2 spell slot.

Which means, I get to run around like crazy and every round when I use shocking grasp I'm doing 60 damage plus weapon and other procs!!! Sheer joy!!!! :p

However, before I follow through with this, I wanted to ask the community if it's a decent path to follow. My next two feats are acquired at 8 and 10 (I'm currently lvl 7), should I even indulge this and waste those two feat slots for those two metamagic feats in order to satisfy Spell Perfection? Or should I ask for some other gift and look towards other feats?

Discuss

all this is decribed, very well, in the guide that is linked in the beginning of this thread.


The guide mainly focuses on Quicken if I were to go with Spell Perfection, not maximize.

I'm a bit confused on the benefits to a Quickened Shocking Grasp, especially if I'm doing Spell Combat.

Spell Combat is a full-round action, so how would I go about applying Shocking Grasp any differently if it was Quickened or not?

Or does this mean that as a Quickened spell, I can avoid Spell Combat, cast Shocking Grasp as a swift action and then just do a Spell Strike and then make a standard attack action without the penalty of Spell Combat?

If not, then why would I not just go ahead with Maximize Spell, so that I'm guaranteed max damage every time I strike with Shocking Grasp in a full round action by mixing Spell Combat and Spell Strike?


Knighthood wrote:

Ok, next set of questions.

Since Shocking Grasp is appears to be the end-all-be-all attack component of the Magus, I wanted to beef it up a bit with metamagic feats.

So, here are a few things:

Current Metamagic Feats:

Intensify Spell

Current Traits:
Magical Lineage (Shocking Grasp)

I was thinking about adding in two more extra metamagic feats:

Piercing Spell
Maximize Spell

Now, piercing spell will raise Shocking Grasp up to a lvl 2 spell slot, and then with Maximize it would become a lvl 5 spell slot. However, I made a deal with my DM, since I did an amazingly awesome thing in the game and received a gift from some dragons, to have him give me Spell Perfection.

Spell Perfection only works if I have 3 metamagic feats. Sooooo, with the following:

Intensify, Piercing, & Maximize that would make Shocking Grasp a lvl 6

However, add in Magical Lineage and Spell Perfection, it brings it back down to a lvl 2 spell slot.

Which means, I get to run around like crazy and every round when I use shocking grasp I'm doing 60 damage plus weapon and other procs!!! Sheer joy!!!! :p

However, before I follow through with this, I wanted to ask the community if it's a decent path to follow. My next two feats are acquired at 8 and 10 (I'm currently lvl 7), should I even indulge this and waste those two feat slots for those two metamagic feats in order to satisfy Spell Perfection? Or should I ask for some other gift and look towards other feats?

Discuss

On my own magi, I never bother with maximize, since Empower Spell is statistically better.

Spell Specialization increases your CL by 2 and at earlier levels that means more damage, at later levels it means you don't have to waste a higher spell slot using Piercing Spell, Spell Penetration is also a thing (and at later levels the better choice). I would skip Piercing Spell all together.

I also like to include Heighten Spell. Never to actually use it, but to pick up Preferred Spell on Shocking Grasp so I can spontaneously convert any spell slot above a cantrip into a Shocking Grasp.

How is quicken not on your list? When Spell Perfection happens you can burn a swift action and turn any spell slot that isn't a cantrip into a 10d6 shocking grasp, and next turn use your swift to spell recall it which means you are basically turning your Arcane Pool into 10d6 smites, and the best part is you don't even have to prepare Shocking Grasp, so you can prepare something utility or defensive, recall it, then later convert it into a Grasp for damage once you've already used the spell you actually needed in that slot.

Also Heighten -> Intensified -> Empower satisfies your three metamagic feats for Spell Perfection.


Knighthood wrote:

The guide mainly focuses on Quicken if I were to go with Spell Perfection, not maximize.

I'm a bit confused on the benefits to a Quickened Shocking Grasp, especially if I'm doing Spell Combat.

Spell Combat is a full-round action, so how would I go about applying Shocking Grasp any differently if it was Quickened or not?

Or does this mean that as a Quickened spell, I can avoid Spell Combat, cast Shocking Grasp as a swift action and then just do a Spell Strike and then make a standard attack action without the penalty of Spell Combat?

If not, then why would I not just go ahead with Maximize Spell, so that I'm guaranteed max damage every time I strike with Shocking Grasp in a full round action by mixing Spell Combat and Spell Strike?

You want to get free Quickened Shocking Grasps because it becomes a swift action spellstrike. You don't do it instead of Spell Combat; you do it in addition to Spell Combat.


Master Marshmallow and ZanThrax,

I appreciate the follow up. But can you just run me through it as if you were saying it in a session?

I'm also a bit confused with the effect of Heighten Spell. So I treat it like one level higher for the purposes of......? Damage? Is it like a second Intensify? or Empower?

Also, why would I not want piercing? 5 point reduction on enemy spell resist sounds amazing! Where-as the feats Spell Penetration and Spell Penetration Greater would take up 2 feat slots to = a reduction of 4 spell resist... doesn't seem worth it.

So, let's assume I'm going with Intensified, Quicken, and empower.

How do I play it out in a round?


You could use Snowball instead of Shocking Grasp. Costs you an Arcana (Close Range) but it does the same damage, also with no save, and it outright ignores SR. And it comes with a Stagger effect, sure it has a low chance to apply but it's basically there for free.

And you still have the ability to use it at range if that situation should ever come up.

Good old Conjuration. Is there anything it can't do?

Scarab Sages

Athaleon wrote:

You could use Snowball instead of Shocking Grasp. Costs you an Arcana (Close Range) but it does the same damage, also with no save, and it outright ignores SR. And it comes with a Stagger effect, sure it has a low chance to apply but it's basically there for free.

And you still have the ability to use it at range if that situation should ever come up.

Good old Conjuration. Is there anything it can't do?

You can combine it with Rime Spell too. :)


Actually I just re-read Close Range and it only works on Ray spells. So disregard all of the above, I guess.


Knighthood wrote:

Master Marshmallow and ZanThrax,

I appreciate the follow up. But can you just run me through it as if you were saying it in a session?

I'm also a bit confused with the effect of Heighten Spell. So I treat it like one level higher for the purposes of......? Damage? Is it like a second Intensify? or Empower?

Also, why would I not want piercing? 5 point reduction on enemy spell resist sounds amazing! Where-as the feats Spell Penetration and Spell Penetration Greater would take up 2 feat slots to = a reduction of 4 spell resist... doesn't seem worth it.

So, let's assume I'm going with Intensified, Quicken, and empower.

How do I play it out in a round?

Assuming you had Spell Perfection?

"Spell Combat; empowered maximized shocking grasp; passed concentration. Does AC X1 hit? Remaining attacks, AC X2, X3, X4, X5 (that's 4 attacks from BaB +11 and a Haste effect). Still standing? Quickened maximized shocking grasp, AC X6."

Scarab Sages

Athaleon wrote:
Actually I just re-read Close Range and it only works on Ray spells. So disregard all of the above, I guess.

That kinda sucks. I guess I overlooked the word "Ray" there, when all of the subsequent text reads ranged touch spells.


Pupsocket wrote:
Knighthood wrote:

Master Marshmallow and ZanThrax,

I appreciate the follow up. But can you just run me through it as if you were saying it in a session?

I'm also a bit confused with the effect of Heighten Spell. So I treat it like one level higher for the purposes of......? Damage? Is it like a second Intensify? or Empower?

Also, why would I not want piercing? 5 point reduction on enemy spell resist sounds amazing! Where-as the feats Spell Penetration and Spell Penetration Greater would take up 2 feat slots to = a reduction of 4 spell resist... doesn't seem worth it.

So, let's assume I'm going with Intensified, Quicken, and empower.

How do I play it out in a round?

Assuming you had Spell Perfection?

"Spell Combat; empowered maximized shocking grasp; passed concentration. Does AC X1 hit? Remaining attacks, AC X2, X3, X4, X5 (that's 4 attacks from BaB +11 and a Haste effect). Still standing? Quickened maximized shocking grasp, AC X6."

Yes, this was assuming I had Spell Perfection too.

So, basically I should ideally start off the round with Spell combat, and then use arcana to maximize the attack, potentially doing a minimum of 90 damage from shocking grasp (not including the weapon damage and other procs). If it crits, then that's 180 (very nice!). And then follow the rest of the attacks on the mob after, and if it's still up, burn another lvl 3 spell slot for a quickened Shocking Grasp for another 15d6.

Am I reading this correctly?


Knighthood wrote:

Master Marshmallow and ZanThrax,

I'm also a bit confused with the effect of Heighten Spell. So I treat it like one level higher for the purposes of......? Damage? Is it like a second Intensify? or Empower?

Also, why would I not want piercing? 5 point reduction on enemy spell resist sounds amazing! Where-as the feats Spell Penetration and Spell Penetration Greater would take up 2 feat slots to = a reduction of 4 spell resist... doesn't seem worth it.

You're almost certainly never going to actually use Heighten. It's pure tax so that you can get Preferred Spell, which will allow you to cast your shocking grasps spontaneously. Instead of preparing different metamagiced variations of SG, you'll prepare everything that you might need that isn't SG instead and then use whichever spell you're least likely to need during the fight before recovering them afterward with Pearls / Spell Recall.

Piercing is a good metamagic in general, but keep in mind that Spell Perfection will double the benefits of Spell Pen and Greater Spell Pen for your SGs, leaving you more room for damage-boosting metamagic while still blowing through the SR.

Knighthood wrote:


So, basically I should ideally start off the round with Spell combat, and then use arcana to maximize the attack, potentially doing a minimum of 90 damage from shocking grasp (not including the weapon damage and other procs). If it crits, then that's 180 (very nice!). And then follow the rest of the attacks on the mob after, and if it's still up, burn another lvl 3 spell slot for a quickened Shocking Grasp for another 15d6.

Am I reading this correctly?

Almost. Maximized means you don't roll the dice, and Empowered means you add half the rolled amount to the regular damage. Both means you roll the dice and that add half of it to the maximum possible roll. (Note that I'm assuming that Pupsocket means for both of those Shocking Grasps to be Intensified as well) So the first one does 60+(10d6/2) while the quickened one at the end does 60. Assuming that this Magus has Magical Lineage (SG) making the Intensified free, that's a 3rd level slot for the first SG, and a 4th level for the second.

If those aren't Intensified, then they're capping at 5d6 instead of 10d6, but the spell slot is reduced by one.


ZanThrax,

I'm a bit lost. Here's how I'm reading it and let me know if this makes sense:

Metamagic feats can be considered sticky for the purposes of casting something multiple times. (i.e. I have a choice on which ones I apply to my cast)

So lets say I have these Metamagics: Intensify, quicken, & empower

also, lets assume I have magical lineage, and spell perfection

At the start of the round I decide to do spell combat using my shocking grasp:

In this case I'm going to use a shocking grasp with metamagics Intensify and Empower, this will keep it at lvl 1 spell slot ( Intensify +1, Magical Lineage -1, Empower +2, Spell Perfection -highest number = lvl 1 spell slot).

Also, lets assume I burn my maximize arcana on this too:

That will roll out as 60 for the intensified portion, but you're saying that I have to roll 10d6/2 for the empower portion even with the attack being maxed? Wouldn't it just be half the 10d6? Which would be 60 for the maxed + 30 for the empowered maxed half = 90.

Then, do all my standard attacks and follow up the end with the swift super Shocker! (Intensify +1, Magical Lineage -1, Empower +2, Quicken +4, Spell Perfection - highest number = lvl 3 spell slot)

Since this is not maximized it will roll out as follows: 10d6 * 1.5.

Is this correct? I think if my attack was maxed in that one action that all variables were maxed.

The definition for Empowered Spell is as follows: All variable, numeric effects of an empowered spell are increased by half including bonuses to those dice rolls.

Doesn't that mean that the 10d6 will always be multiplied by 1.5? No need to roll anything additional.


Knighthood wrote:

Also, lets assume I burn my maximize arcana on this too:

That will roll out as 60 for the intensified portion, but you're saying that I have to roll 10d6/2 for the empower portion even with the attack being maxed? Wouldn't it just be half the 10d6? Which would be 60 for the maxed + 30 for the empowered maxed half = 90.

No. Read again empower and maximized: they specifically says that you apply the effect separately, so 60 damage for maximized and 10d6/2 for empowered.


Knighthood wrote:

ZanThrax,

I'm a bit lost. Here's how I'm reading it and let me know if this makes sense:

Metamagic feats can be considered sticky for the purposes of casting something multiple times. (i.e. I have a choice on which ones I apply to my cast)

So lets say I have these Metamagics: Intensify, quicken, & empower

also, lets assume I have magical lineage, and spell perfection

At the start of the round I decide to do spell combat using my shocking grasp:

In this case I'm going to use a shocking grasp with metamagics Intensify and Empower, this will keep it at lvl 1 spell slot ( Intensify +1, Magical Lineage -1, Empower +2, Spell Perfection -highest number = lvl 1 spell slot).

Also, lets assume I burn my maximize arcana on this too:

That will roll out as 60 for the intensified portion, but you're saying that I have to roll 10d6/2 for the empower portion even with the attack being maxed? Wouldn't it just be half the 10d6? Which would be 60 for the maxed + 30 for the empowered maxed half = 90.

Then, do all my standard attacks and follow up the end with the swift super Shocker! (Intensify +1, Magical Lineage -1, Empower +2, Quicken +4, Spell Perfection - highest number = lvl 3 spell slot)

Since this is not maximized it will roll out as follows: 10d6 * 1.5.

Is this correct? I think if my attack was maxed in that one action that all variables were maxed.

The definition for Empowered Spell is as follows: All variable, numeric effects of an empowered spell are increased by half including bonuses to those dice rolls.

Doesn't that mean that the 10d6 will always be multiplied by 1.5? No need to roll anything additional.

Pretty much all correct here.

Remember that with Heighten and Preferred Spell you just burn spell slots, and don't even need to prepare Shocking Grasp at all to get the effects you want. So yes, using Spell Combat to cast your spell you can use a 1st level slot to cast an Intensified Empowered Shocking Grasp that does 1.5(10d6) damage.

Statistically, this is better than maximizing it, and doing both is either overkill or a waste of resources, as you don't have enough feats to take Maximize Spell, and the Maximize Arcana is a waste as only a Once Per Day ability that would be much better spent on additional resources like Spell Blending, or Bane Blade, or something else with more utility.


ZanThrax wrote:
Piercing is a good metamagic in general, but keep in mind that Spell Perfection will double the benefits of Spell Pen and Greater Spell Pen for your SGs, leaving you more room for damage-boosting metamagic while still blowing through the SR.

To get intensify, quicken, empower, hieghten, preferred, perfect, spell penetration and great spell penetration is 8 feats!

That's a lot of investment in going that route, not even sure how to build all that out now....


Just list them out in the order of their prerequisites and slot them in. If you play an elf, you can hold off on the Spell Pen feats a bit longer; if you play human you can get a jump start thanks to the bonus feat.

I'd actually probably skip Empower and just rely on arcanas instead. Heighten, Intensified, and Quicken will fulfill the requirements for Preferred Spell.

Assuming you're able to use retraining, I'd suggest going for Spell Specialization (and maybe Varisian Tattoo) until you hit the Intensified cap and then retrain them for feats from the above list. I like to do Heighten and Preferred together at level five so that I don't feel the Heighten tax as much. Take Intensified at either level 3 or level 7, depending on how much caster level boosting you've done.


Current Character is as follows:

Sylph Magus lvl 7

I also have Magical Lineage linked to SG.

(all stats are including racials and bonuses): Also, every odd level after 1, we get 1 attribute point bonus.

STR: 12
DEX: 17
CON: 12
INT: 20
WIS: 12
CHA: 10

In my DM's game, we gain an additional feat every even level starting from 2

0- Toughness
0- Weapon Finese (DM started toon with 2 feats)
2- Airy Step (Sylph Racial)
4- Dervish Dance
5- ***This one is still open, haven't selected anything yet****
6- Intensify Spell
8-
10-
11-
12-
14-
16-
17-
18-
20-

I was interested in acquiring the feat Wings of Air for Sylph since that will let me fly, minimum lvl requirement is 9. So I have talked to my DM about using my 8th Feat for it and it won't be activated till I'm 9th lvl.

Also, my gear is as follows:

Witches Robes +2
Amulet of Natural Armor +2
Cloak of Resistance +2
Featherstep Boots
Ring of Force Shield +2
Ring of Adaptation
+2 Keen Scimitar

Current Arcana:
3 - Arcane Accuracy
6 - ***Haven't picked one yet***

Was thinking about Spell Scars Arcana, can use my body as 18 caster lvl slots... might not be a bad idea, no?

If I got rid of the racial feats, I could make the progression look like this:

0- Toughness
0- Weapon Finesse
2- Quicken Spell
4- Dervish Dance
5- Heighten Spell
6- Intensify Spell
8- Spell Perfection
10- Preferred Spell
11- Empower Spell
12- Spell Penetration
14- Greater Spell Penetration

However, I feel I might be losing out on other things, like increased chances to hit.

Silver Crusade

Knighthood wrote:
Was thinking about Spell Scars Arcana, can use my body as 18 caster lvl slots... might not be a bad idea, no?

Spellscars are cast as Scrolls, so you cannot use them in conjunction with any of your primary abilities. It's okay, but not overwhelming.

Wand Wielder is a strong choice. It creates an endless(ish) pool of low level spells. True Strike, Sure Casting (Spell Piercing as a spell), etc...Spring loaded wrist sheaths for maximum advantage.

Also, you should to rotate your energy types to do damage consistently with evocation. Electricity Resistance really gimps your build. Pick up the Metamagic feat Elemental Spell to broaden the access if you like, maybe on a Rod?

Silver Crusade

Imbicatus wrote:
Athaleon wrote:
Actually I just re-read Close Range and it only works on Ray spells. So disregard all of the above, I guess.
That kinda sucks. I guess I overlooked the word "Ray" there, when all of the subsequent text reads ranged touch spells.

I'm fairly certain [i]snowball[i/i] counts as a ray.


Bigdaddyjug wrote:
Imbicatus wrote:
Athaleon wrote:
Actually I just re-read Close Range and it only works on Ray spells. So disregard all of the above, I guess.
That kinda sucks. I guess I overlooked the word "Ray" there, when all of the subsequent text reads ranged touch spells.
I'm fairly certain [i]snowball[i/i] counts as a ray.

You would be incorrect, it doesn't state "Ray" in the spell write up for effect.

Snowball


New Question:

Spell Perfection has the following description associated with it:

Quote:
In addition, if you have other feats which allow you to apply a set numerical bonus to any aspect of this spell (such as Spell Focus, Spell Penetration, Weapon Focus [ray], and so on), double the bonus granted by that feat when applied to this spell.

Now I read that as "feats" that apply bonuses, only. If that's the case, and I have Empower, which is supposed to do an additional 1/2 the dice roll of the main spell's cast. If I were to merge those two together, since "half" is a numerical value, it can be quantified, does that mean:

If I were to cast Intensified Shocking Grasp: 10d6

And I had Empowered Spell, and Spell Perfection: does that mean I do another 10d6??? 2(1/2)= 1

Silver Crusade

Bigdaddyjug wrote:
Imbicatus wrote:
Athaleon wrote:
Actually I just re-read Close Range and it only works on Ray spells. So disregard all of the above, I guess.
That kinda sucks. I guess I overlooked the word "Ray" there, when all of the subsequent text reads ranged touch spells.
I'm fairly certain [i]snowball[i/i] counts as a ray.

Apparently, only a Ray of Hope. Which, true to name, went poof when coming in contact with anything substantive. ;)

Silver Crusade

I remember reading that somewhere, but I did a cursory search of the forums and couldn't find anything. I'll make a more in-depth search when I get home. If I still don't find anything, there's always an FAQ request in the rules forum.


Knighthood wrote:

New Question:

Spell Perfection has the following description associated with it:

Quote:
In addition, if you have other feats which allow you to apply a set numerical bonus to any aspect of this spell (such as Spell Focus, Spell Penetration, Weapon Focus [ray], and so on), double the bonus granted by that feat when applied to this spell.

Now I read that as "feats" that apply bonuses, only. If that's the case, and I have Empower, which is supposed to do an additional 1/2 the dice roll of the main spell's cast. If I were to merge those two together, since "half" is a numerical value, it can be quantified, does that mean:

If I were to cast Intensified Shocking Grasp: 10d6

And I had Empowered Spell, and Spell Perfection: does that mean I do another 10d6??? 2(1/2)= 1

The way I read it, a "Set Numerical Bonus" is a static value that does not change depending on circumstances. Empower Spell increases variable effects by half, which means the value of its bonus is also variable.


Athaleon wrote:
The way I read it, a "Set Numerical Bonus" is a static value that does not change depending on circumstances. Empower Spell increases variable effects by half, which means the value of its bonus is also variable.

Ok, what about intensify?

An intensified spell increases the maximum number of damage dice by 5 levels. You must actually have sufficient caster levels to surpass the maximum in order to benefit from this feat. No other variables of the spell are affected, and spells that inflict damage that is not modified by caster level are not affected by this feat.

Shadow Lodge

It was brought up in the Kensai guide thread: Elemental Body DOES allow you to cast spells, and wield weapons, since elementals can take the form of a humanoid, and they can speak.


Ninjaxenomorph wrote:
It was brought up in the Kensai guide thread: Elemental Body DOES allow you to cast spells, and wield weapons, since elementals can take the form of a humanoid, and they can speak.

You're going to have to drop your weapons and pick them up however.

Transmutation (poly) wrote:
When you cast a polymorph spell that changes you into a creature of the animal, dragon, elemental, magical beast, plant, or vermin type, all of your gear melds into your body.

Lantern Lodge

True, or you can keep them in a polymorphic pouch :)

Scarab Sages

Polymorphic pouch is pretty much required if you are going to use spells with material components too, since most spell components will burn on contact your body as a fire elemental.


Idea for what will probably be a really niche feat direction:

Would it be worth it to be a Sylph magus and combine the Cloud Gazer feat (your vision ignores cover+concealment effects from cloud, fog, mist) and fight inside a spell of Obscuring Mist?

Lantern Lodge

It is nice, though I think it's a lot of investment for a spell that be counter by walking out of the mist...

It would be great if you had an improved familiar with UMD use a wand to cast obscuring mist.

The main issue I see is what are other people going to do? If you use obscuring mist a lot, it prevents other people from participating in combat.


I have a quibble about the ratings of a couple of arcana and would like to know if I'm missing something :P.

Arcane Accuracy: This seems like a major waste of arcane pool points to me and it uses up your swift action. Points are incredibly precious for recalling spells or just being able to enhance your weapon for the full day. I'd rather use up those swifts with arcane strike which isn't as good but doesn't consume any resources. Plus Magi already have quite good to hit rolls at low/medium levels (I worked it out yesterday and they keep pace with fighters much better than I expected).

Arcane Edge: Its nice, but it seems very situational. Its only useful if you are hitting an enemy that is going to take several rounds to die, has no form of healing (potions, fast healing, other creatures...) and isn't immune to bleed damage. Given all that its not a bad use of a point, but I don't see it as a 3 star one.

Bane Blade: Your description in wrong: you don't replace anything with bane. Its not spend a point to put bane on the list of allowed abilities, like how ghost blade works. Its a point to add Bane in addition to what is on the weapon. They both come from the same book and have distinctly different wording, so I think this is both RAW and RAI. I know its only a 1 point difference, but it allows things like vorpal bane blackblade swords, which is just epic. And it beats epic DR.


Arcane Accuracy is pretty much amazing and a great use of Arcane Pool points. Spell Combat issues negative numbers, and at lower levels you may need to tank your attack value even lower to make a concentration check. You can pretty much never have enough to hit, until your bottom attack is at like +28, and even then it's still not enough.


master_marshmallow wrote:
Arcane Accuracy is pretty much amazing and a great use of Arcane Pool points. Spell Combat issues negative numbers, and at lower levels you may need to tank your attack value even lower to make a concentration check. You can pretty much never have enough to hit, until your bottom attack is at like +28, and even then it's still not enough.

Now that I really think about it I can kind of see how it would be very useful for a nova build when you need to guarantee that all attacks hit and you don't need to hold the charge of the touch spell to the next round. I think most of my initial "man that sucks" is because I value endurance highly because of past DM's I've had.

That said, I'm still not sold. At level 3 when I first could get it, I only have 1+int points, maybe another 2 if I took a feat. Thats not going to last through a 4/5 combat day if I'm burning points on individual rounds. I would much much rather have +1 attack/damage for every hit all fight than +2/3 to attack for 1 round. At these levels spell combat is going to be rare and the 5ft step can avoid a lot of concentration checks.

After level 4, the question becomes whether I want a spell or a 1 round bonus. I think that spells like shield are a better value, but again, I seem to put a high value on endurance.


Thaago wrote:
master_marshmallow wrote:
Arcane Accuracy is pretty much amazing and a great use of Arcane Pool points. Spell Combat issues negative numbers, and at lower levels you may need to tank your attack value even lower to make a concentration check. You can pretty much never have enough to hit, until your bottom attack is at like +28, and even then it's still not enough.

Now that I really think about it I can kind of see how it would be very useful for a nova build when you need to guarantee that all attacks hit and you don't need to hold the charge of the touch spell to the next round. I think most of my initial "man that sucks" is because I value endurance highly because of past DM's I've had.

That said, I'm still not sold. At level 3 when I first could get it, I only have 1+int points, maybe another 2 if I took a feat. Thats not going to last through a 4/5 combat day if I'm burning points on individual rounds. I would much much rather have +1 attack/damage for every hit all fight than +2/3 to attack for 1 round. At these levels spell combat is going to be rare and the 5ft step can avoid a lot of concentration checks.

After level 4, the question becomes whether I want a spell or a 1 round bonus. I think that spells like shield are a better value, but again, I seem to put a high value on endurance.

It's a solid choice, but it's not for every body. Like I said, it is basically for when you are dumping your spell attack into the enemy and you need the extra to hit.

To hit is pretty close to the most important statistic in the game for a martial character, and an insight bonus to it based off a primary stat is pretty stellar, and well worth a swift action in a pinch against a BBEG.

If you are looking for enduring strategies, combining the spell Magic Weapon with your Arcane Pool gives you a +2 weapon that lasts a minimum of 10 rounds starting at level 1, which is more damage than Arcane Strike can afford you. On top of that, you can still Arcane Accuracy against opponents who are really dodgy, or Arcane Strike against opponents who seem to have a lot of endurance.

The point is to give yourself more options, it's better to have the option of improving your most important combat statistic, than to waste the resource of your first Magus Arcana on something that doesn't help you.

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