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What Ultimate Combat tidbits were revealed at PaizoCon?


PaizoCon


Pathfinder Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Like the title says. Any new info?


Pathfinder Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Nothing on Ultimate Combat? Seriously?!?

Shadow Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Let me see if I can think of some of the items off the bullet point list:

  • Gunslinger is a full class - not a alternate class
  • An even more expanded list of archetypes for martial classes
  • A picture of a dragon eating a dirigible
  • Rules for vehicle combat, and not just chariots
  • There will be an expanded weapons list, several eastern in theme
  • The book will have spells, but many will be more buff-oriented
  • An awesome picture of a mage with a gun
  • Oh yeah, a mage/gunslinger archetype as well

  • Grand Lodge

    9 pages of feats.
    Martial Art Styles.
    Primitive weapons, gladiator weapons, eastern weapons, lots of guns.
    Dueling Maneuvers
    Performance fights (like gladiators) that enhance (or reduce) abilities as spectators react to you.
    Vehicle combat.
    Spells that enhance fighting.

    Some optional rules which allow:
    Armor as DR instead of AC
    Wounds and Vitality systems.

    That's all my notes.

    Grand Lodge

    Point of clarification. 9 pages of Feat Charts. That's just the short description of the feats.

    Shadow Lodge

    Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
    Triskaidek wrote:
    Point of clarification. 9 pages of Feat Charts. That's just the short description of the feats.

    Yeah, that description was just insanity. The book will be VERY feat heavy.


    Pathfinder Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Roleplaying Game, Tales Subscriber
    Triskaidek wrote:
    Point of clarification. 9 pages of Feat Charts. That's just the short description of the feats.

    Wow considering a random sample of one page of feat chart has 43 feats....if there is 9 full pages....that would be 387 new feats as my estimate guess.

    That is alot of feats...hopefuly they will make Barbarians, Rogues, Fighters, and cavaliers very happy.


    Pathfinder Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

    Thanks, everyone!

    While I'm still dreading the page-count being dedicated to firearms and fearing that the optional rules will only get a few paragraphs, I'm cautiously optimistic about this book. I don't need 20+ pages of firearms and 2 paragraphs each for Armor as DR and a Wound/Vitality system.

    (Which, honestly, still kinda sucks b/c this was THE book I thought I mike like more than the APG...)

    Paizo Employee Webstore Gninja Minion

    I believe the feat count is 250 feats, or something absurd like that. :D


    Pathfinder Adventure Path, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
    BPorter wrote:

    Thanks, everyone!

    While I'm still dreading the page-count being dedicated to firearms and fearing that the optional rules will only get a few paragraphs, I'm cautiously optimistic about this book. I don't need 20+ pages of firearms and 2 paragraphs each for Armor as DR and a Wound/Vitality system.

    (Which, honestly, still kinda sucks b/c this was THE book I thought I mike like more than the APG...)

    RANT ON:

    This is one of those examples where I feel like I'm the only person actually excited about the gun stuff. IT FREAKIN' ANNOYS ME TO NO END that people think it's more plausible to throw fireballs and create alternate dimensions with the wave of a hand then for some schmuck to do the math on putting gun powder into a tube and throwing a small metal ball in for good measure. But somehow this breaks with the fantasy theme in some horrendous way? My rule for gun powder is this; if it's good enough for Tolkien it's good enough for me.

    RANT OFF...for now.


    Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

    WOW nine pages of feat charts that is awesome if only Ultimate magic had that many feats for spellcastering, class abilities and skill based feats.

    Paizo Employee

    BPorter wrote:

    Thanks, everyone!

    While I'm still dreading the page-count being dedicated to firearms and fearing that the optional rules will only get a few paragraphs, I'm cautiously optimistic about this book. I don't need 20+ pages of firearms and 2 paragraphs each for Armor as DR and a Wound/Vitality system.

    (Which, honestly, still kinda sucks b/c this was THE book I thought I mike like more than the APG...)

    Not every page is going to have something everybody is going to love. And that just becomes more true, the larger the book gets. It just can't be done. The best thing is to provide enough for everyone that they will enjoy the book despite having a few things they couldn't care about. The fact is, a lot of people do want pages on firearms and eastern weapons. I would suggest you not let that deter you from enjoying the book which I'm sure will be filled with other awesomeness that you will enjoy and maybe you'll end up enjoying the rest of it for what it is.

    Taldor

    Pathfinder Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Tales Subscriber
    Aaron Scott 139 wrote:
    BPorter wrote:

    Thanks, everyone!

    While I'm still dreading the page-count being dedicated to firearms and fearing that the optional rules will only get a few paragraphs, I'm cautiously optimistic about this book. I don't need 20+ pages of firearms and 2 paragraphs each for Armor as DR and a Wound/Vitality system.

    (Which, honestly, still kinda sucks b/c this was THE book I thought I mike like more than the APG...)

    RANT ON:

    This is one of those examples where I feel like I'm the only person actually excited about the gun stuff. IT FREAKIN' ANNOYS ME TO NO END that people think it's more plausible to throw fireballs and create alternate dimensions with the wave of a hand then for some schmuck to do the math on putting gun powder into a tube and throwing a small metal ball in for good measure. But somehow this breaks with the fantasy theme in some horrendous way? My rule for gun powder is this; if it's good enough for Tolkien it's good enough for me.

    RANT OFF...for now.

    There's this stick, right... and the end that you're grabbing is the wrong one.

    Very few people who dislike firearms in their fantasy are complaining about plausibility. It's tone that seems to bother most.

    DOn't get all het-up about something that doesn't exist. Just relax and enjoy the gun fun that you're being given.


    Pathfinder Adventure Path, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
    GeraintElberion wrote:
    Aaron Scott 139 wrote:
    BPorter wrote:

    Thanks, everyone!

    While I'm still dreading the page-count being dedicated to firearms and fearing that the optional rules will only get a few paragraphs, I'm cautiously optimistic about this book. I don't need 20+ pages of firearms and 2 paragraphs each for Armor as DR and a Wound/Vitality system.

    (Which, honestly, still kinda sucks b/c this was THE book I thought I mike like more than the APG...)

    RANT ON:

    This is one of those examples where I feel like I'm the only person actually excited about the gun stuff. IT FREAKIN' ANNOYS ME TO NO END that people think it's more plausible to throw fireballs and create alternate dimensions with the wave of a hand then for some schmuck to do the math on putting gun powder into a tube and throwing a small metal ball in for good measure. But somehow this breaks with the fantasy theme in some horrendous way? My rule for gun powder is this; if it's good enough for Tolkien it's good enough for me.

    RANT OFF...for now.

    There's this stick, right... and the end that you're grabbing is the wrong one.

    Very few people who dislike firearms in their fantasy are complaining about plausibility. It's tone that seems to bother most.

    DOn't get all het-up about something that doesn't exist. Just relax and enjoy the gun fun that you're being given.

    My concern is if all the Paizo guys see is people complaining about stuff like this, and there is a metric ton of it, they will take it away down the road and be gun shy (pun intended) about growing the brand and trying new things. I think it's important to once in a while raise a red flag and let them know there are people who do indeed like these options and want them to keep cranking them out.

    I know, opinions are like a$$holes and everyone has one, but I hope the powers that be appreciate the voice of the yay-sayers as well.


    Pathfinder Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
    Aaron Scott 139 wrote:
    BPorter wrote:

    Thanks, everyone!

    While I'm still dreading the page-count being dedicated to firearms and fearing that the optional rules will only get a few paragraphs, I'm cautiously optimistic about this book. I don't need 20+ pages of firearms and 2 paragraphs each for Armor as DR and a Wound/Vitality system.

    (Which, honestly, still kinda sucks b/c this was THE book I thought I mike like more than the APG...)

    RANT ON:

    This is one of those examples where I feel like I'm the only person actually excited about the gun stuff. IT FREAKIN' ANNOYS ME TO NO END that people think it's more plausible to throw fireballs and create alternate dimensions with the wave of a hand then for some schmuck to do the math on putting gun powder into a tube and throwing a small metal ball in for good measure. But somehow this breaks with the fantasy theme in some horrendous way? My rule for gun powder is this; if it's good enough for Tolkien it's good enough for me.

    RANT OFF...for now.

    Rant all you like. Different strokes and all that.

    That said, however, most gamers try to go from "primitive firearms" to Shadowrun in short order. Hell, even Paizo couldn't resist - we don't just have black powder firearms but revolvers and such.

    If you can have an internally consistent fantasy campaign where your players don't try to impose present-day firearms tech and tactics, you have my admiration. In my experience, however, that has NEVER happened.

    It's not about plausibility. Its about tone, theme, setting and the ability to support the traditional swords-n-sorcery tropes.

    Since you used Tolkein as an example, I don't recall the Fellowship having a gunslinger, or Gondor riflemen, or Orc sharpshooters so aside from a black-powder explosive, firearms had no place in Middle Earth. (The pirate fleet didn't have them either.) I wonder why Tolkein went that route...?

    As for my page count comments, it's called Ultimate Combat. Not Ultimate Firearms or some such. Much like I was glad to see that magic items didn't dominate Ultimate Magic (or even make an appearance outside of spellbooks for that matter), I don't want firearms to have a huge pagecount in Ultimate Combat. I want a book that helps run a more exciting combat encounter - ala new cool subsystems, archetypes, feats, etc.

    YMMV.

    P.S. - Putting your rant in All-Caps, DOESN'T MAKE ME CHANGE MY OPINION ONE DAMN LITTLE BIT. But it's cool if you want your guns.


    Pathfinder Adventure Path, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

    Hold on a sec. You're telling me you don't remember the scene where Aragorn was going to town on the first wave of orcs with his AK-47 atop the wall of Helmsdeep?

    Wait...was that scene in there? What the hell was I watching? Oh that's right, Red Dawn. "Wolverine!" But I digress.

    The point is this, my rant wasn't directed at you per se, but the general notion that Paizo is somehow confined to produce what the masses define as acceptable fantasy material. If they don't stretch beyond that from time to time all they're doing is rehashing the same stuff that we've seem a hundred times before with other fantasy D20 games.

    As for the all caps thing, I have a boss that uses all caps to generate excitement or attention in his emails. You could argue its effectiveness but at the end of the day it helps drive his point. Small doses is the key.

    * FYI, Richard Simmons talks in all caps. It's true, i've seen it in person and no amount of psychological conditioning can prepare you for it.

    Silver Crusade

    Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion Subscriber

    Can you guys take this convo somewhere else? I'm here for UC tidbits, not a "my fantasy has/doesn't have guns" flamewars. :)

    Osirion RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4; Contributor; Publisher, Legendary Games

    One of the feats on the preview page was "Choke Hold," and we also saw a group of "Crane Style" feats (one of which reduced the attack roll penalty for using Combat Expertise, don't recall the others), along with a picture of Sajan doing the Daniel-san crane technique pose from The Karate Kid.

    A whole section on vehicles in combat, including ordinary things like carts and wagons, intentional war vehicles like chariots, ships, and airships like gliders and dirigibles.

    Probably other stuff too... :)


    Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

    I was able to make out the stats for a katana. >:)

    Taldor PaizoCon Founder, Wayfinder Editor-in-Chief

    Wizards. With Guns.

    I had the opportunity to play the spellslinger in SRM's "Shootout in Old Korvosa".

    Among the coolness:

    Wizard can imbue his firearm as his focus of sorts.
    Wizard can cast ranged touch attack spells through his gun, using the gun's attack bonuses.
    Wizard can sacrifice a spell to make his bullets magic. The spell level equals the cost of the magic enchantment...2nd level = +2 cost, so, sacrificing a 2nd level spell would let you shoot holy bullets.

    So, not really seeing the problem of guns overriding magic. Doubly so, when my spellslinger stared down a red dragon with a Gatling gun, and took only 2 of the 43 points of damage (thanks, Protection from Arrows!).


    Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Modules, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
    MisterSlanky wrote:
  • A picture of a dragon eating a dirigible
  • I ran that fight for my game. The barbarian died, but they defeated a pair of black dragons in flight.


    Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Modules, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
    Kyle Baird wrote:
    I was able to make out the stats for a katana. >:)

    2d12+5?

    I kid!

    Shadow Lodge

    Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
    Kyle Baird wrote:
    I was able to make out the stats for a katana. >:)

    So was I. 2d20 damage, crit range of 15-20.

    Andoran

    Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Pawns, Roleplaying Game, Tales Subscriber

    Whew! I've been trying to post to this thread all afternoon, but there was something wrong with my computer. I could post on other threads, but not to this one. Weird. Anyway....

    There are some "cryptic notes" about the products revealed at the banquet can be found here: Mythopoeic Rambling.

    I have it on good authority that the author of those notes is working on an expanded explanation of those notes, which will soon be forwarded to the author of the blog. ;-)

    Osirion

    SunshineGrrrl wrote:


    Not every page is going to have something everybody is going to love. And that just becomes more true, the larger the book gets. It just can't be done. The best thing is to provide enough for everyone that they will enjoy the book despite having a few things they couldn't care about. The fact is, a lot of people do want pages on firearms and eastern weapons. I would suggest you not let that deter you from enjoying the book which I'm sure will be filled with other awesomeness that you will enjoy and maybe you'll end up enjoying the rest of it for what it is.

    I'm one of those who have no interest in firearms for Pathfinder, and it'll probably be the first thing Paizo has published that I won't be allowing in my campaign.

    That said, though, everything else in that book just looks awesome. I just started reading Ultimate Magic and I'm loving what I see so far there.

    I'm looking forward to more rules on martial arts styles (one of my players is a monk), and all the new feats, and the gladiator styles, and anything that gives me rules for running a fight between a dragon and a dirigible would probably get my money right there :)

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