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The main reason for changing my PC's faction is that his current faction is changing its alignment (to a step further away from my PC's alignment).When I chose Andoran for Bbauzh, I basically made character stat and skill decisions, and personality decisions for him so he would fit Andoran.
I don't understand why, when choosing a faction is mandatory, that people create characters and then tack the faction on as an afterthought.
The question isn't so much why are people choosing to change factions, but rather when creating the character's personality, theme, background, et. al. is choosing a Faction not part of the integral process. In other words, why don't people fold the faction into who their character is.
One fellow gave a response that made sense, in that doing both interests him. But then I didn't think he'd be the one to complain that the factions didn't fit his character. He made that conscious choice.
But why complain that factions don't fit your character concept, when you know that factions are an integral part of this campaign? Just create your concept to be integral with a particular faction. Problem solved.
Can't agree here. I come up with a concept and then fit it to the most appropriate faction. I don't think "I'm creating an Andoran" I think "I am creating a character".
My order of priorities goes something like this:
1) What are the character's goals and motivations?
2) What is his allignment?
3) Why is he a Pathfinder?
4) Which faction interferes with the concept the least?
At a convention a couple of weeks ago I refused to do my faction mission because it would require a NG cleric of a NG faith to screw over another NG faith. That's not what the character does. I would rather follow his allignment and his faith than follow "orders".
I have found the factions to be too restrictive until now. These new factions give me options to choose a faction more appropriate to my character concepts. I for one welcome this.
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The question isn't so much why are people choosing to change factions, but rather when creating the character's personality, theme, background, et. al. is choosing a Faction not part of the integral process. In other words, why don't people fold the faction into who their character is.
Because you can change your faction if you want to.
Personally, I look at the 'faction' chosen for a character sort of like a person who choosed to work for one political campaign (for president or something similar) opposed to another one. The only perseon defined by the 'faction' they are in is the person running for office.
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The question isn't so much why are people choosing to change factions, but rather when creating the character's personality, theme, background, et. al. is choosing a Faction not part of the integral process. In other words, why don't people fold the faction into who their character is.
One fellow gave a response that made sense, in that doing both interests him. But then I didn't think he'd be the one to complain that the factions didn't fit his character. He made that conscious choice.
But why complain that factions don't fit your character concept, when you know that factions are an integral part of this campaign? Just create your concept to be integral with a particular faction. Problem solved.
These are interesting questions.
For many new players to Pathfinder Society, some handed a pre-gen at a games day, they really aren't familiar with the Faction system, through no fault of their own. Probably their second character will be better integrated with their faction.
Even among veteran players, sometimes a compelling character concept does't quite fit any of the ten factions (or fits more than one). Consider my three characters:
Slip halfling, former Chelish slave, never knew his Osirion homeland, found working for the Cheliax faction was his ticket out of that despised nation. As such, he works for Cheliax, but secretly assists Andoran characters (anti-slavery efforts) or Osirion characters (out of curiosity for the homeland he never knew) if the opportunity arises. Slip is happy in his current role, and won't be changing to any of the new factions.
Madusha human Mwangi witchdoctor. Osiron faction, because both Osirion and Mwangi have suffered foreigners raiding their ancient ruins for treasures. Mwangi witchdoctor is a pretty specific character concept, one I really had to stretch to find a comfortable faction for, but neither do any of the new factions suit. Is that any reason not to play a Mwangi character? I don't think so.
Goka Kho, TianXian half-orc Ninja. As a GM, I think it's important to be familiar with all the new base classes, so I really wanted to try one of the new Ultimate Combat playtest classes for myself. Goka was adopted by a traveling TianXian opera troupe, learning acting, acrobatics and swordplay along the way. Upon reaching Katapesh, Goka took a month off to research a role for an upcoming stage play about the local slave trade, even going as far as to learn some local Gnoll slang. An Andoran in the audience was so impressed with Goka's portrayal, he took him aside after the performance, and said his organisation could use someone with his talents.
Now you'd think Goka would convert to the Lantern Lodge in Season 3, however I think he's quite comfortable with his adopted faction. I suspect he'll remain Andoran, there are still slaves to free in TianXia, but cooperate with Lantern Lodge characters.
Summary:
Slip - Cheliax (patchwork) faction
Madusha - Osirion (for lack of a better) faction
Goka Kho - Andoran (adopted) faction
I'm still intrigued with the Lantern Lodge, though I'm looking forward to hearing more about the other four factions.
Cheers,
Stephen (DarkWhite)
Pathfinder Society 4-Star GM
Venture-Captain, Australia
One fellow gave a response that made sense, in that doing both interests him. But then I didn't think he'd be the one to complain that the factions didn't fit his character. He made that conscious choice.
But why complain that factions don't fit your character concept, when you know that factions are an integral part of this campaign? Just create your concept to be integral with a particular faction. Problem solved.
To elaborate on my earlier comments, I think that -- assuming we have to have competing factions and semi-secret faction missions which I'm not crazy about in the first place -- having more factions is a good thing. Sometimes I don't feel like playing an Andoran freedom fighter, or a Chelaxian devil-worshipper, or a Taldan snob, or whatever Osirians and Qadirans are supposed to be, so hopefully some of the new factions will inspire me with some new interesting character concepts. (Although I have to admit that the Grand Lodge and Lantern Lodge don't sound too exciting to me, at first blush.)
Mwangi witchdoctor is a pretty specific character concept, one I really had to stretch to find a comfortable faction for, but neither do any of the new factions suit.
[..]
Madusha - Osirion (for lack of a better) faction
Funny -- I also think of Osirion as the "nothing else really fits" faction. :-)
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Funny -- I also think of Osirion as the "nothing else really fits" faction. :-)
I actually really like the Osirion flavour, it just doesn't really suit a Mwangi witchdoctor, unless you look at what the faction represents a little more broadly, and then it works.
Looking at a faction's methods and goals is often a better way of matching it to your character concept than it's national or geographical area.
Funny -- I also think of Osirion as the "nothing else really fits" faction. :-)I actually really like the Osirion flavour, it just doesn't really suit a Mwangi witchdoctor, unless you look at what the faction represents a little more broadly.
Oh, I agree. But I've gone through the process before, thinking: "Well, this particular character wouldn't really be interested in Andoran faction missions, or Taldan ones, or Chelaxian ones, or Qadiran ones, so...."
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cool stuff
Thanks for the well thought out reply. But funny enough, while you feel you are tacking on factions to your character concepts, you actually spent the time to write part of your character back story around finding a faction. As such, I would consider this integrating the faction into who your character is.
Bbauzh ap Agauzh, my half-orc battle oracle, is Andoran. He's from the Realm of the Mammoth Lords and was enslaved early on. He escaped his slavery and when joining the Pathfinder Society, the Andorans sent a delegate to recruit him. He fell right in, because of their slave-freeing ways.
I consider this integrating the faction into the character concept, even though I chose the faction last, rather than first.
The main issue, is the folks who just take a faction as a tack-on and treat it as such. I suppose there is absolutely nothing wrong with treating it like a job (since it kinda is I guess). But when you complain that there isn't a faction that fits your character concept and whine about it... it kinda rankles me. These complaints aren't coming from newbies, but rather veterans. If you are a veteran, you knew going into character creation that you would need a faction. So if that is the way you choose to create your character, then its your own fault that you can't find a faction to fit your character.
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My predictions and feelings on the new factions.
#1 - The Grand Lodge, finally the Society gets it's own faction!
YES! Prior to now, any person making a character to be a Pathfinder first and formost got wedged into Osirion. This gives you a much better option for the "scholar of ruins" concept. A+
#2 - The Lantern Lodge, representing the Tian Xa continent.
"So you're playing a Tian? Alright, here's your faction mission"
"What? Just because I'm Tian, you assume I'm part of the Lantern Lodge? Racist!"
#3 - The Skarni, the Gypsy "mafia" of Varisia.
CE? I hope so. My friend's rogue plays too chaoticly for Cheliax, and this has potential for the perfect fit. Also potentially a faction for clerics of NE dieties?
#4 - The Silver Crusade, do-gooders following the ethos of Silver Dragons.
Bout time! Up til now, LG was hard to stick in any faction, particularly Paladins. Finally, a faction for Good guys without being Andoran. I'm just not sure what their deal is in the struggle for dominance in Absalom.
#5 - The Shadow Lodge, the "dark side" of Pathfinder Society.
This...This worries me. It has IMMENSE potential to be an excellent RP faction, but it also has potential to blow up in an incredible way. I suppose time will tell.
I am a little sad to see departure from the Nation-based-faction theme, but it deffinately eases up on the conceptual end of character creation. The divorce of goals and nation offer a bit more ready creativity. Yes, a Chelaxian who hates his government and thus works for Andoran is a viable concept, but for a new player, just making him an Andoran native is more logical.
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New 5 Factions were announced at PaizoCon!
#2 - The Lantern Lodge, representing the Tian Xa continent.
Is their color Green, or is there one for each color of the emotional spectrum plus black? :)
Black Lantern Pathfinders for the win!
The question is: Illusion, Necromancy, or Shadow based Wizard/Sorcerer? Pretty sure all three fit the Black Lantern motif...
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#3 - The Skarni, the Gypsy "mafia" of Varisia.
My group the West Side Table is really looking forward to this. We have one group of characters that were a hodge podge that reached retirement. Our mid level was an all Andoran group that are only 4-5 adventures from retirement our low level group (4th level) are all Chellaxian and have been a hoot.
But we were really pleased that these new factions are coming out just when we might be wanting to start first level characters. We looked at the factions and decided that the Gypsy Mafia would be perfect for us as it is new and allows some new room to roleplay. We were thinking about making a family of half-orc circus performers. Really looking forward to reading more over the next couple of months.
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#3 - The Skarni, the Gypsy "mafia" of Varisia.
My group the West Side Table is really looking forward to this. We have one group of characters that were a hodge podge that reached retirement. Our mid level was an all Andoran group that are only 4-5 adventures from retirement our low level group (4th level) are all Chellaxian and have been a hoot.
But we were really pleased that these new factions are coming out just when we might be wanting to start first level characters. We looked at the factions and decided that the Gypsy Mafia would be perfect for us as it is new and allows some new room to roleplay. We were thinking about making a family of half-orc circus performers. Really looking forward to reading more over the next couple of months.
Michael,
Do you ever play in a 'mixed' group? I think that I have the most fun trying to figure out what the hell the others are up to. You might consider a group where everyone is playing a different faction. There are 5 new factions after all.
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When are these new factions going to be available for play? I ask because my gaming group is about to launch into playing PFS and if it's going to be soon, then we may hold off on starting our first characters until the new options open up.
Thanks!
Mark has stated that the new factions will be available with the release of the updated Guide to Organized Play slated for Gen Con (roughly 1st week of August).
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My understanding from the seminar was that the Shadow Lodge would fit in as a viable faction by... (and I'll spoiler this in case anyone is still working through the metaplot involving the Shadow Lodge)
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#3 - The Skarni, the Gypsy "mafia" of Varisia.
My group the West Side Table is really looking forward to this. We have one group of characters that were a hodge podge that reached retirement. Our mid level was an all Andoran group that are only 4-5 adventures from retirement our low level group (4th level) are all Chellaxian and have been a hoot.
But we were really pleased that these new factions are coming out just when we might be wanting to start first level characters. We looked at the factions and decided that the Gypsy Mafia would be perfect for us as it is new and allows some new room to roleplay. We were thinking about making a family of half-orc circus performers. Really looking forward to reading more over the next couple of months.
Michael,
Do you ever play in a 'mixed' group? I think that I have the most fun trying to figure out what the hell the others are up to. You might consider a group where everyone is playing a different faction. There are 5 new factions after all.
Trying to figure out the reply function:
Hi Todd, yeah we played with mixed groups (factions)and it was fun. Everybody going after the faction mission. But West Side has been pretty steady and we tended just help each or at least not get in each others way.WHen we were a mostly Andoran we had had fun with it....When we went Chelaxian we decided for the heck of it to go all Chelaxian. And it has been a real hoot. The in house role play as a group against the world was new to us at the time and it actually expanded our roleplay. We looked at just the names of the factions and brief description. The Silver was close to our Andoran and our Chellaxian group plan on taking over the Shadow lodge....to make it more effective: lol. We didn't feel like going the oriental adventure route yet. We looked at the Gypsy Mafia tag and we all thought Ooo that sounds fun. We stubled into Gypsy Circus performers....Decided to make it a family thing and it kinda snowballed into the Flying Falcinis. All different classes with all of us spending a skill point/level in profession circus performer. Half-orc family for flavor. All different classes to avoid the sterotypical barbarian. We currently are talking Bard....Clown, Rogue Club juggler, Druid animal tamer and later Otto the dancing bear. Cleric of Calistra whip trick perform. Ranger roustabout. Wizard special effects person, and maybe Paladin ringleader or barbarian strongman.
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We looked at the Gypsy Mafia tag and we all thought Ooo that sounds fun. We stubled into Gypsy Circus performers....Decided to make it a family thing and it kinda...
Now that is a cool way to go. I mostly play in a pick up game fashion so it is whoever sits down to the table. I gotta say from your description that seems like a lot of fun.
Venture-Captain, Australia—NSW—Greater West
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Mark has stated that the new factions will be available with the release of the updated Guide to Organized Play slated for Gen Con (roughly 1st week of August).Boo! Too long to wait! Boo!
;)Still, thanks for the quick reply, Ryan.
Do we know if a firm date has been slated for this. I have finally convinced some friends to start with the First Steps scenerios. We would be doing Char Gen on the 23rd July and playing on the 30th and it would be good to have the updated guide (not that the factions will matter as much for the First Steps). On this, does anyone know how they are planning on treating the faction traits (I always try to take one if it fits) when you don't yet have a faction.
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Well, at 20 bucks a pop?
Maybe it's time for a sale, err I mean promotion.
I picked up a T-shirt at PaizoCon, and IIRC they were very constrained on sizes. It would be a shame to not get shirts for the new factions because there will be fifty size S Cheliax t-shirts in stock for all time...
Maybe Paizo could do a pre-order promotion whereby they only have the shirts made if a pre-order threshold is met? That should also help on getting the sizing right.
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Well, at 20 bucks a pop?
Maybe it's time for a sale, err I mean promotion.
I picked up a T-shirt at PaizoCon, and IIRC they were very constrained on sizes. It would be a shame to not get shirts for the new factions because there will be fifty size S Cheliax t-shirts in stock for all time...
Enslave more halflings!
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Seems like a welcome addition. The first, Grand Lodge, has been yearned for as long as I can remember. Personally I have little interest in the rest of the factions. Shadow Lodge could, however, provide interesting missions.
Might, as a provocation, do a character named Ashem Ketch, an oriental preservationist (Alchemist archetype) following the Lantern Lodge. Gotta catch 'em all.