Plans for Pathfinder computer game?


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Vic Wertz wrote:
Azure_Zero wrote:
So their it is folks, fan-made games are eternally bound to a NON-Golarion campaign setting.
No... they just have to use the Community Use Policy. Which means they have to be free.

So ANY fan-game can use Golarion campaign setting, provided that it is FREE of charge.

Vic Wertz wrote:
Most publisher like to do things themselves. And the best have tools to create concepts swiftly.

If that publisher has and internal development team then yes (an example is Electronic Arts),

but the general case in the Computer game industry is the developer selling/pitching the game/idea to the publisher, whom in turn funds the developer who HAS TO reach milestones (goals) in the development cycle or not get paid for their work. The Developer has the tools to make the proto-type demo to sell their ideas*. (their are exceptions, where the publisher is trying to get a Developer to make a game)

I'll use Duke Nukem forever as an example:
Publishers (Take Two Interactive) are the money bags paying the Developers and have some control over the game from said Developers, The Developers (3D Realms, then Gearbox software) are the true workers and makers of the computer game.

*Note: One of my professors does two jobs, working at Arctech Studios and teaching Computer Game project management at Algonquin College. And some of the professors have been in the computer game industry before becoming a prof (in the game development program) at the college, and have told us (the students) how the industry works.

Edit: Updated version due to Blue Screen of Death.


Actually, that kind of raises some interesting legal questions. For example, can I make a module for a game engine (like NWN) that uses Paizo IP, and publicly distribute it, if I distribute it for free? In this case, the game isn't free but the thing containing the actual IP is.


Azure_Zero wrote:
So ANY fan-game can use Golarion campaign setting, provided that it is FREE of charge.

Not any. You can't, for instance, create a fan-made game that recreates a Pathfinder adventure, because descriptively referencing dialogue, plots, storylines, language, or incidents from Pathfinder adventure products is permitted only when it comes to play-by-post or play-by-email games.


Derek Vande Brake wrote:
Actually, that kind of raises some interesting legal questions. For example, can I make a module for a game engine (like NWN) that uses Paizo IP, and publicly distribute it, if I distribute it for free? In this case, the game isn't free but the thing containing the actual IP is.

Probably. You are not using their IP for any demonstrable commercial purpose, and as long as you stick to what you're allowed under the CUP it seems to me that it would be permissible.


Scott Betts wrote:
Derek Vande Brake wrote:
Actually, that kind of raises some interesting legal questions. For example, can I make a module for a game engine (like NWN) that uses Paizo IP, and publicly distribute it, if I distribute it for free? In this case, the game isn't free but the thing containing the actual IP is.
Probably. You are not using their IP for any demonstrable commercial purpose, and as long as you stick to what you're allowed under the CUP it seems to me that it would be permissible.

Ah, but then what is to stop a company from selling a game engine of their own design, and freely offering a campaign module for it that uses IP? The net effect would be the same as selling a game containing Paizo IP, but functionally it is no different than making NWN module, which seemingly should be free under the CUP.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Derek Vande Brake wrote:
Scott Betts wrote:
Derek Vande Brake wrote:
Actually, that kind of raises some interesting legal questions. For example, can I make a module for a game engine (like NWN) that uses Paizo IP, and publicly distribute it, if I distribute it for free? In this case, the game isn't free but the thing containing the actual IP is.
Probably. You are not using their IP for any demonstrable commercial purpose, and as long as you stick to what you're allowed under the CUP it seems to me that it would be permissible.
Ah, but then what is to stop a company from selling a game engine of their own design, and freely offering a campaign module for it that uses IP? The net effect would be the same as selling a game containing Paizo IP, but functionally it is no different than making NWN module, which seemingly should be free under the CUP.

Are you sure that the EULA of NWN allows one to create and distribute content that's covered by somebody's copyright? There's more to this all than just simple "CUP covers it".

Or perhaps the EULA of NWN says that any content you create is property of Bioware/Atari, which would be no go for CUP because it doesn't transfer any IP rights.


Derek Vande Brake wrote:
Ah, but then what is to stop a company from selling a game engine of their own design, and freely offering a campaign module for it that uses IP?

That clause in the CUP that says "If Paizo believes that you are in the publishing business, you are considered to be a commercial user, and you are not granted any right to use any Paizo Material under this Policy."


NWN was just an example. There are other game engines for which you can write custom content, if that one doesn't work.

And Scott, clever of them, though the definition of a "publishing" company is debatable. But I guess that's what a court case would determine.


Derek Vande Brake wrote:
And Scott, clever of them, though the definition of a "publishing" company is debatable. But I guess that's what a court case would determine.

Not really. It's Paizo's license, and the license makes it clear that the determination of whether or not a licensee is in the publishing business is Paizo's to make.

And even if it weren't, a software developer is inarguably involved in the software publishing business, even if they themselves are not the actual publisher of the game.

Also, Paizo retains the right to modify the license at will, so the amount of room for legal shenanigans is essentially zip.


Scott Betts wrote:
Azure_Zero wrote:
So ANY fan-game can use Golarion campaign setting, provided that it is FREE of charge.
Not any. You can't, for instance, create a fan-made game that recreates a Pathfinder adventure, because descriptively referencing dialogue, plots, storylines, language, or incidents from Pathfinder adventure products is permitted only when it comes to play-by-post or play-by-email games.

Essentially, it has to be a homebrew adventure with custom made artwork for characters and maps and such. You could use images from the community use package, such as the world map and the faction symbols.

What couldn't be done is to make a Rise of the Runelords module with the characters being the iconics. That type of thing would be reserved for a licensed distributor.
You also have to be careful of what you turn into 3D art. The CUP doesn't cover making derivative artwork of anything except for what has been posted in the blog.

Another thing to remember: not only do you need to follow Paizo's CUP, you also have to follow all the terms of the OGL in your game rules implementation. One of the implied characteristics of the OGL, based on how Open Game Content is defined in section 1, is that any representation of the open content must be human readable. Given the appropriate definition of human, this can easily be complied with by using a scripting language for the rules implementation.


Eric Jarman wrote:
You also have to be careful of what you turn into 3D art. The CUP doesn't cover making derivative artwork of anything except for what has been posted in the blog.

Actually, that's not true - the following provision allows for all other forms of derivative artwork:

Community Use Policy wrote:
You may not use artwork, including maps, that have not been published in the blog, although you may create your own interpretations of material presented in our artwork and maps, provided that your interpretations don't look substantially similar to our materials.

This is the "fan art" provision, allowing a person to create original art that is derivative (but not substantially similar to) any art owned by Paizo. The standard of "substantially similar" is not clarified, so it can be inferred that Paizo reserves judgment of similarity to their own discretion.


Scott Betts wrote:
Eric Jarman wrote:
You also have to be careful of what you turn into 3D art. The CUP doesn't cover making derivative artwork of anything except for what has been posted in the blog.

Actually, that's not true - the following provision allows for all other forms of derivative artwork:

Community Use Policy wrote:
You may not use artwork, including maps, that have not been published in the blog, although you may create your own interpretations of material presented in our artwork and maps, provided that your interpretations don't look substantially similar to our materials.
This is the "fan art" provision, allowing a person to create original art that is derivative (but not substantially similar to) any art owned by Paizo. The standard of "substantially similar" is not clarified, so it can be inferred that Paizo reserves judgment of similarity to their own discretion.

I may have been being a bit overly pendantic specifying that derivative art can only be based on something that is posted in the blog, but as artwork posted in the blog was what that paragraph was specifically referring to, it is still one possible interpretation. I believe a bit of clarification on this issue of derivative work would be in order.

Say, using one of the faction symbol images directly as a texture on the surface of a 3d object in a game would be covered under the CUP, since you are using the image directly as originally presented.
Creating a 3d representation of one of the iconics to use as either an NPC or a PC would probably not be covered, since it is a derivative work that is substantially similar to the copyrighted work. It would be possible however, to use an image from the community use package of one of the iconics to plaster their image on a wall in-game (say for a portrait or wanted poster or something), since you are using the original artwork directly in a manner allowed by the CUP.

So, back to my original point, which we both agree on, is be careful what you turn into 3d art.


Eric Jarman wrote:
So, back to my original point, which we both agree on, is be careful what you turn into 3d art.

I'm not convinced that rendering an iconic in 3d using published artwork as a reference would not be permitted under the CUP. The issue is, of course, the "substantially similar" bit, and that's entirely in Paizo's court to clarify, as you point out.


Eric after reading the Community Use Policy, I have to agree with Scott on this one.

which makes for a "schrodinger's cat" situation in that we do not know how close your 3D Model and how Paizo interpets how close your model is to it's Iconics.

@Eric I know you will be texturing the model, But I am also assuming the possibility of Skinning and Rigging of the model as well.

As for my fan-made game
I have coveted the game from JAVA to C# and am now upgrading the engine to be closer to Pathfinder rules set. Right now it is just a text based adventure that can be finished in under a few minutes.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

Has anyone looked into making use of the UDK or Unity3 game engines for software development? There's some righteous indie development going for these Pro engines for game design across platforms.


Liquidsabre wrote:
Has anyone looked into making use of the UDK or Unity3 game engines for software development? There's some righteous indie development going for these Pro engines for game design across platforms.

I have used the Unreal Editor (2.5 and 3.0) before, and it works great except for when the editor crashes, corrupted map files (rare, but happens), and package files not having an auto-save function when you compile a map. As for it's UDK, it uses the same editor (minor difference in files) and I don't know about the rest of the UDK though.

As for Unity, I only knew about it's existence after looking at www.design3.com when I was looking for tutorials on the source engine.

And if you try this project alone, it will fail due to the many talents, and time required to make a mod or game. I know this from taking game development program at Algonquin College.


Hopefully the above post helped you, Liquidsabre.

I am aiming to use the source engine (PC, MAC, PS3) for a mod (looked at Unreal 3 and source, but picked source), but I'll need more than just me and Right now, making my own simple game engine from scratch is hard work, but than I can make the engine mod friendly and easy to use for anyone.


While I would be excited to see a CRPG for Pathfinder, I had another thought. A Diablo style game, or one of the many Tactics games, where it is completely GM controlled. Like Diablo meets a Virtual Tabletop. APs/Modules can be much like DLC. Maps & creatures added as needed, plus the basics from Bestiaries already included, or as more DLC. M odular game that can be used for internet, or face to face gaming.

Make a new class of game. Not a true CRPG. Call it the Pathfinder Virtual RPG.

RPG Superstar 2015 Top 8

xorial wrote:

While I would be excited to see a CRPG for Pathfinder, I had another thought. A Diablo style game, or one of the many Tactics games, where it is completely GM controlled. Like Diablo meets a Virtual Tabletop. APs/Modules can be much like DLC. Maps & creatures added as needed, plus the basics from Bestiaries already included, or as more DLC. M odular game that can be used for internet, or face to face gaming.

Make a new class of game. Not a true CRPG. Call it the Pathfinder Virtual RPG.

Sounds basically like Atari's Neverwinter Nights with the GM server function active (except Bioware/Obsidian never produced for-GM-only modules/mapsets).


At the rate I am going It will take me a year at the minimum to make a Core only Computer Pathfinder Game. That is text based, No fancy graphics and single player only. But I could make a editor for items, maps and dialog, so people could make their own adventures and post them.


If people want a computer version of pathfinder badly, then help make it.
Me doing the whole thing by myself, means that I can only get so much done at a time. I can only go as fast as I work on it, which means when I have a moment to work on it, I'll work on it.


Those interested in using the Unreal Engine for making a game, the UDK has been updated.


I really hope to see a game on the xbox 360 one of these days.


I'd like a Pathfinder game to be made for the PS3 actually with an easy interface to learn how to use (aka be able to control a PC and do other things just with your controller).


DeathQuaker wrote:
xorial wrote:

While I would be excited to see a CRPG for Pathfinder, I had another thought. A Diablo style game, or one of the many Tactics games, where it is completely GM controlled. Like Diablo meets a Virtual Tabletop. APs/Modules can be much like DLC. Maps & creatures added as needed, plus the basics from Bestiaries already included, or as more DLC. M odular game that can be used for internet, or face to face gaming.

Make a new class of game. Not a true CRPG. Call it the Pathfinder Virtual RPG.

Sounds basically like Atari's Neverwinter Nights with the GM server function active (except Bioware/Obsidian never produced for-GM-only modules/mapsets).

Yes, except looking more like the tactics games you see.


SuperSlayer wrote:
I really hope to see a game on the xbox 360 one of these days.

Because I am programming the game in C# it could go on the XBox, if I use XNA.

Berselius wrote:
I'd like a Pathfinder game to be made for the PS3 actually with an easy interface to learn how to use (aka be able to control a PC and do other things just with your controller).

It would be nice to make the game for the PS3, but the Development kits for the PS3 are freaking expensive. So no fan made game can get there easily, but I could be wrong.


This may have been mentioned already, but do any of you recall the PSP D&D game that came out a few years back? It was a turn-based, tactical affair but much, MUCH closer to actual 3.5 rules than Return to the Temple of Elemental Evil (which was, frankly, an abortion).

If you're curious...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dungeons_%26_Dragons_Tactics


Kuma wrote:

This may have been mentioned already, but do any of you recall the PSP D&D game that came out a few years back? It was a turn-based, tactical affair but much, MUCH closer to actual 3.5 rules than Return to the Temple of Elemental Evil (which was, frankly, an abortion).

If you're curious...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dungeons_%26_Dragons_Tactics

I remember it. It is actually like what I was talking about, only with a GM mode. Also the ability to buy/make modules for it.


xorial wrote:


I remember it. It is actually like what I was talking about, only with a GM mode. Also the ability to buy/make modules for it.

I thought it was pretty great, except you couldn't zoom out for crap.


Just wanted to add I would buy a Pathfinder video game similar to Neverwinter Nights. What I would look for would be if it had the same level of graphics or better, the ability for DMs to login and control monsters and game world, the ability to make private and public servers, and most importantly, a construction set and scripting language with which we can create our own modules and persistent worlds.


If it's being made as a fan game from one guy, you better lower your standards.

As it'll take me a long time by myself to get a really usable engine up. I'm still figuring out how to best layout some of the data classes and what system interacts with what in a way that not only works, but is fast and customizable.

I do have a very basic version running, but it needs some serious work.


Out of the Baldur's Gate stable I liked Icewind Dale because it just felt like a campaign game but Planescape was the most awesome. it really captured the feel of the settting and had interesting NPCs and a cool plot. I was also a big fan of Diablo I and II, Dungeon Siege less so. My ideal would be a PFRPG MMORPG though,DDO or LOTRO style. PFS lends itself beautifully to the idea with charcters based in Absalom and being able to go out on missions across Golarion. What would really rock would be being able to tackle the adventures at different tiers so that you had more flexibility. The ability to add in NPCs to achive the minimum party number would also be great. Include faction missions and you have a winner with fame and prestige helping set your spending limits and buy in-game bonuses.

Dark Archive

I'd only want them to release a Pathfinder video game so as to get more people to play in my PnP games.


I think the Beginner box is a good start for the rules for this game to get going before I go to the complete core rules.


I'd love to see a computer game using pathfinder system... Hell I'd say that some of the published campaigns would do well as PC-games even.
And also: HOLY NECRO! I didn't realize how old this thread was.


I read about half of the first page before I noticed this thread is 4 years old. It was almost comical too because one of the first few comments is some guy saying he was checking E3 for news, which just started today, and then some other guy was pining over a Baldurs Gate style game, to which I was going to reply "dude, have you been under a rock, check out Pillars of Eternity!"...and then I noticed the date, lol.

Anyway, so Paizo, what is going on with that Obsidian deal*, hmm?

I'm going to laugh when Vic replies with the exact same thing he said 4 years ago.

*Other than the virtual card game.

Paizo Employee Chief Technical Officer

2 people marked this as a favorite.

When Obsidian is ready to say something more, you can expect they won't do it quietly.

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