Magical Darkness & Friendly Touch Spells

[Darth Grall]

So been playing a certain PF1e module again since we'd never finished it and ran into a situation with a Forgefiend, where said monster cast deeper darkness and since they didn't have a means of overcoming it (as their sorcerer had just walked into a trap that nauseated them for 3 round) folks were stuck fighting in magical darkness (a rarity for my group since it usually gets dispelled).

Now, no one was using the concealment to hide so despite being blind everyone had a general sense of where everyone was so no wasting time to find their allies (but all the other penalties for being in darkness). However, when the warpriest tried to use a cure spell to heal an ally it was brought into question whether they needed miss chance since it was a touch spell.

So, would they have needed to roll for miss chance in total darkness? Obviously you don't need to roll to "attack" allies with touch spells under normal conditions, but in ideal conditions both folks can help it hit. Here they're blind so it feels like there should be some miss chance since neither party can "let" the other just succeed in touching them. And is there some relevant text that clarifies things here? And FYI for the sake of keeping things moving we ruled that they wouldn't this time but we'd look it up for next time and outside of a 2e example I'm not really seeing anything one way or another for 1e.

On that subject, I know 2e is another system but the wording there is more clear there where concealment just says you have to succeed on the flat check for spells to affect them so friendly spells can just miss over in this situation which is why I sorta feel like there's something I'm missing here that would point to it working similarly here.

In any case, thanks in advance for any & all replies!

[Mysterious Stranger]

This spell causes an object to radiate darkness out to a 20-foot radius. This darkness causes the illumination level in the area to drop one step, from bright light to normal light, from normal light to dim light, or from dim light to darkness. This spell has no effect in an area that is already dark. Creatures with light vulnerability or sensitivity take no penalties in normal light. [b]All creatures[b/] gain concealment (20% miss chance) in dim light. [b]All creatures[b/] gain total concealment (50% miss chance) in darkness. Creatures with darkvision can see in an area of dim light or darkness without penalty.

Deeper Darkness works like darkness. Darkness specifies all creatures gain concealment or total concealment and states the miss chance. Your allies are still part of the all creatures subset, so gain concealment or total concealment as appropriate and the miss chance.

[Darth Grall]

I see what you're saying, and I feel like that's probably how it should work, but I guess where would it say that miss chance applies to things besides attacks?

[Pizza Lord]

Deeper darkness reduces the light level by two steps. The darkness is supernatural darkness and even creatures with darkvision can't see better in areas that it turns to dim or dark (they'd have the 20% or 50% miss chance respectively just as any other creature in darkness).

In most cases, it doesn't require an attack to touch a willing target, but it is still technically an action that requires the equivalent of one (even if it wouldn't count as an attack for removing invisibility something). Just like a reach cure spell would still need a ranged touch attack roll even if it didn't count as an 'attack' or even if the target wasn't dodging. At best I might let a creature reduce the needed AC to hit by their Dex (to show their ability to dodge into an attack as opposed to away from it). In cases where you can't see your target, or your target can't see or know where you are to let you touch them, there should be a miss chance.

A coup de grace doesn't require an attack roll either, but if you can't see the target, you have to spend a full round locating it before you can take the action.

Even if two creatures in the dark, unable to see each other, are trying to 'auto touch' each other, you have to determine how they're doing it. Are they talking to each other? "Hey, I'm about to cast cure light wounds! Don't move and don't resist the spell (which even a harmless spell gives the option to do unless you don't want to)".
"Okay, I'm standing right over here in this square, I won't resist."

Any enemies should be just as equally allowed to locate them. If you're allowing an ally to auto target them, then any enemies trying to touch or attack should too, since the target can't know who or where the 'touch' is coming from. Plus, they'd get no save if they were choosing to not resist the spell (which if they aren't, they'd save against the cure spell, potentially only getting half the healing), assuming they couldn't differentiate the 'attacker/toucher' beforehand.

Otherwise, they'd either have to be already touching or waving their hands in the dark (with a 50% chance they just keep missing each other).

[Azothath]

Darth Grall wrote:

So been playing a certain PF1e module again since we'd never finished it and ran into a situation with a Forgefiend, where said monster cast deeper darkness and since they didn't have a means of overcoming it (as their sorcerer had just walked into a trap that nauseated them for 3 round) folks were stuck fighting in magical darkness (a rarity for my group since it usually gets dispelled).

Now, no one was using the concealment to hide so despite being blind everyone had a general sense of where everyone was so no wasting time to find their allies (but all the other penalties for being in darkness). However, when the warpriest tried to use a cure spell to heal an ally it was brought into question whether they needed miss chance since it was a touch spell.

So, would they have needed to roll for miss chance in total darkness? ...

Having to fight a Foe in the darkness ("folks were stuck") is a False Premise as that was the groups choice as (before or) after considering that they could not dispel the Dpr Dark as they could have regrouped about one person (possibly touching each other) or tactically withdraw with the disabled Sorcerer. They chose to fight in the dark.

Since they did not regroup into a touching party they suffer the miss chance of the darkness. So Yes, there is a miss chance even on allies.
Normally touch attacks don't have to roll on allies within reach but that also assumes normal conditions.

A common tactic is to cast Obscuring Mist in the darkness to try to even out the miss chances.