Casting spells while
submerged can be difficult for those who cannot breathe
underwater. A creature that cannot breathe water must
make a concentration check (DC 15 + spell level) to cast
a spell underwater (this is in addition to the caster
level check to successfully cast a fire spell underwater).
Creatures that can breathe water are unaffected and
can cast spells normally.
My question is how this interacts with Silent Spells or the Hold Breath ability. Hold Breath can be gotten from Water Elementalist at level one, so if he can ignore the concentration check, this could drastically affect his tactics.
In addition, it seems that opening your mouth to speak verbal components does not cause water to flood your lungs.
Aside from water breathing, is there a way to safely cast while underwater?
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The Hold Breath monster special ability (or the water elementalist wizard's ability water supremacy) doesn't change the fact that you're still holding your breath. So without water breathing your still going to make that concentration check. If you still spell however you get to leave out the verbal componant of a spell and thus get to skip the concentration check.
Speaking in a srong voice for the verbal componant is a more difficult action than just speaking, just look at the actions each require. Because it's more difficult it warrants the concentration check.
--Vrock Lobster
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Vrock: I would certainly play that way, but the RAW don't allow you to skip the Conc check with Still Spell.
perhaps you're right... looking at the concentration section again and the water combat rules I think it probably does apply to the whole action in a similar way to the penalties for attacking underwater hinder melee characters.
I think a still, silent, eschewed material spell should absolutely negate that check though!
--Vrocking Grasp
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My question is how this interacts with Silent Spells or the Hold Breath ability. Hold Breath can be gotten from Water Elementalist at level one, so if he can ignore the concentration check, this could drastically affect his tactics.
I think it's pretty clear from the wording that the cause of the concentration check is the necessity of speaking in such a way as to avoid exausting your air supply. If you aren't speaking (Silent Spell), while the RAW doesn't say say, it seems reasonable that the concentration check is voided. Hold Breath abilities mean you can hold your breath longer. I would grant a +2 bonus to the concentration check for a caster with that ability.
Would someone else rule that the concentration check is always needed, even if not speaking? I'm sure someone would. Would someone else say that hold breath abilities mean no check? I'm sure someone would. Such is the nature of a tabletop RPG. The +2 GM helper mechanic is an excellent way to make a ruling, recognize a benefit of limited extent that isn't explicit, and keeps things moving.
Thanks for the imput. I Think I'm gonna go with Silent Spell= No check, Hold Breath = Check with bonus.
Thanks for the imput. I Think I'm gonna go with Silent Spell= No check, Hold Breath = Check with bonus.
My view is that spells with no verbal component don't require the check. But, I don't think Hold Breath would make it easier to cast spells with a verbal component, so I wouldn't adjust that.