Stolen Wand of Summon Eidolon


Rules Questions


What would happen if a thief steals a summoners "wand of summon eidolon" and uses it?

If the eidolon was unsummoned would it summon?
Would the thief have control(why do people always assume they control what they summon)?
Would it be limited by summoners wakeness and distance or the thief?
Could a summoner use this as a work around incase he or she is knocked out(or not present to game)?

Dark Archive

kevin shilling wrote:

What would happen if a thief steals a summoners "wand of summon eidolon" and uses it?

If the eidolon was unsummoned would it summon?
Would the thief have control(why do people always assume they control what they summon)?
Would it be limited by summoners wakeness and distance or the thief?
Could a summoner use this as a work around incase he or she is knocked out(or not present to game)?

I dont think it would work as the Rogue does not have a Eidolon to summon.

You open a rift between dimensions that summons your eidolon.

Treat this as if you had summoned your eidolon normally, except that it only remains with you for the duration of this spell. While summoned in this way, your eidolon cannot touch any creature warded by protection from evil or a similar effect and your eidolon can be sent back to its home plane by dispel magic.

If you cast this spell while your eidolon is already on your plane, this spell has no effect. This spell allows you to summon your eidolon even if it has been returned to its home plane due to damage.

Liberty's Edge

You don't need to steal it. It's just like any old wand, you can buy it or borrow it or whatever.

But if you don't have an Eidolon to summon, you get nothing.

I mean, if some random NPC summoner made a wand to sell thirty years ago, and your PC summoner bought it, you wouldn't expect it would summon some totally different Eidolon right? It is just as if he had cast the spell. No Eidolon means no eidolon.


Just a random evil, chaotic thought - how long does the rift stay open, and could something in the vicinity (on the other side of the rift) wander through and say "Hi There, Crunchie Bit!" to the thief with the wand? Sounds like good times to me...


WmTell wrote:
Just a random evil, chaotic thought - how long does the rift stay open, and could something in the vicinity (on the other side of the rift) wander through and say "Hi There, Crunchie Bit!" to the thief with the wand? Sounds like good times to me...

You're right in that it's random and evil; random in that there's nothing in the RAW saying that creatures other than the intended wand user's eidolon can respond to the summons and evil in that it smacks of unreasoning GM hostility.


Actually, I'm curious how a wand of summon eidolon would even get made since the spell is specific to the caster.


Pathfinder Maps, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Cartigan wrote:
Actually, I'm curious how a wand of summon eidolon would even get made since the spell is specific to the caster.

I could see a summoner making it for his own use, in the unlikely event that he finds himself wanting to cast the Summon Eidolon spell more often than his spells per day would permit. But yeah, that does seem unlikely.


Cartigan wrote:
Actually, I'm curious how a wand of summon eidolon would even get made since the spell is specific to the caster.

Or they want access to the spell without having it soak up a spell known by learning the spell, making the wand, then respec'ing the spell.


Pathfinder Maps, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

Swapping out the Summon Eidolon spell is probably not a good idea, as the wand will eventually run out of charges -- a very bad thing if you were counting on the wand for that spell. You cannot recharge a wand if you do not know its spell, correct?


David knott 242 wrote:
Swapping out the Summon Eidolon spell is probably not a good idea, as the wand will eventually run out of charges -- a very bad thing if you were counting on the wand for that spell. You cannot recharge a wand if you do not know its spell, correct?

50 charges is a lot.


David knott 242 wrote:

Swapping out the Summon Eidolon spell is probably not a good idea, as the wand will eventually run out of charges -- a very bad thing if you were counting on the wand for that spell. You cannot recharge a wand if you do not know its spell, correct?

You can't recharge a wand at all, you have to recraft it.

As to a staff, which you can recharge, you just have to recharge the highest level spell in it. So, if a Summoner wanted the staff with summon eidelon, he'd need to put a spell he does know on it as well that's the same level or higher than Summon Eidolon to recharge it.

Since wands come with 50 charges, and it's a low level spell, it's not unreasonable to say he just deals with it if he runs out.


Ambrus wrote:
WmTell wrote:
Just a random evil, chaotic thought - how long does the rift stay open, and could something in the vicinity (on the other side of the rift) wander through and say "Hi There, Crunchie Bit!" to the thief with the wand? Sounds like good times to me...
You're right in that it's random and evil; random in that there's nothing in the RAW saying that creatures other than the intended wand user's eidolon can respond to the summons and evil in that it smacks of unreasoning GM hostility.

unreasoning GM hostility? How is this any different from accidentally using a cursed item, for example?

Some people use the phrase "unreasoning GM hostility" far too freely. It starts to sound like whining.


LilithsThrall wrote:


unreasoning GM hostility? How is this any different from accidentally using a cursed item, for example?

Some people use the phrase "unreasoning GM hostility" far too freely. It starts to sound like whining.

It all depends on what you let come through.

If you let a CR+1 encounter come through, it's just the GM having some fun with the players and supplying a level appropriate encounter.

If you let a CR+10 encounter come through, it's a GM being a dick.

As they say, the Devil is in the details (or in the rift coming through, depending on your average party level).


mdt wrote:
LilithsThrall wrote:


unreasoning GM hostility? How is this any different from accidentally using a cursed item, for example?

Some people use the phrase "unreasoning GM hostility" far too freely. It starts to sound like whining.

It all depends on what you let come through.

If you let a CR+1 encounter come through, it's just the GM having some fun with the players and supplying a level appropriate encounter.

If you let a CR+10 encounter come through, it's a GM being a dick.

As they say, the Devil is in the details (or in the rift coming through, depending on your average party level).

You mean "if they let a CR +10 creature get through without other means to handle the situation (such as running away), the GM is being a dick.


Ambrus wrote:
WmTell wrote:
Just a random evil, chaotic thought - how long does the rift stay open, and could something in the vicinity (on the other side of the rift) wander through and say "Hi There, Crunchie Bit!" to the thief with the wand? Sounds like good times to me...
You're right in that it's random and evil; random in that there's nothing in the RAW saying that creatures other than the intended wand user's eidolon can respond to the summons and evil in that it smacks of unreasoning GM hostility.

Sounds more like "magic is crazy and unpredictable," and and that could be a cool plot-twist for his game.

This "rights of the players" crap that leads forumites to chide GMs for doing anything surprising to their players isn't good for the hobby.

Liberty's Edge

Cartigan wrote:
Actually, I'm curious how a wand of summon eidolon would even get made since the spell is specific to the caster.

Well,

Quote:

You open a rift between dimensions that summons your eidolon.

Treat this as if you had summoned your eidolon normally, except that it only remains with you for the duration of this spell...

If instead it was Nut Scratch and it read your nuts are scratched as if by a good pinch-and-roll (normally a full round action), would you think that this spell affects the nuts of whomever crafted the wand?

Anything that talks about "you" and "your" refers to the caster, which is, of course, the one using the wand. So all summoners can get Summon Eidolon- it just summons THEIR Eidolon. The spell isn't specific, the result is. Much like the Nut Scratch spell.


LilithsThrall wrote:
How is this any different from accidentally using a cursed item, for example?

I would hope that choosing and placing a cursed item in an adventure might involve some forethought.

Velderan wrote:
Sounds more like "magic is crazy and unpredictable," and and that could be a cool plot-twist for his game.

Unpredictable magic could be a cool plot twist for a game, except that having a random monster appear and attack the PCs for no particular reason isn't what I'd call unpredictable; the game is already full of hostile monsters so adding in one more is just more of the same. Something truly surprising arising from unpredictable magic would be anything that doesn't merely result in PCs suffering hit point damage. A strange dimensional rift could disgorge, say, an NPC who'd been lost in the astral plane following a mishap with a portable hole and a bag of holding and who is grateful for being rescued, or perhaps a secret chest unexpectedly snared from the ethereal plane which contains an ancient cache of indecipherable books, or perhaps some other summoner's eidolon who feels magically compelled to serve the holder of the wand for the duration of the spell but who really only wants to return whence it came.

I'd say that any GM who's instinctive response to unusual circumstances is "nasty monster attacks the PCs" is leaning heavily towards unreasoning hostility. That's just my two cents though.

cfalcon wrote:
If instead it was Nut Scratch and it read your nuts are scratched as if by a good pinch-and-roll (normally a full round action), would you think that this spell affects the nuts of whomever crafted the wand?

Lol. You sir win my personal award for most difficult to follow and yet entertaining analogy. Kudos!


cfalcon wrote:
Cartigan wrote:
Actually, I'm curious how a wand of summon eidolon would even get made since the spell is specific to the caster.

Well,

Quote:

You open a rift between dimensions that summons your eidolon.

Treat this as if you had summoned your eidolon normally, except that it only remains with you for the duration of this spell...

If instead it was Nut Scratch and it read your nuts are scratched as if by a good pinch-and-roll (normally a full round action), would you think that this spell affects the nuts of whomever crafted the wand?

Anything that talks about "you" and "your" refers to the caster, which is, of course, the one using the wand. So all summoners can get Summon Eidolon- it just summons THEIR Eidolon. The spell isn't specific, the result is. Much like the Nut Scratch spell.

The problem being it is then a nonsensical spell to put on a wand. It can't be UMD'd because only Summoners have Eidolons. And how does this affect the new Summoner archetypes? The spell is too specific to make sense of making into a wand. It's like if the spell Mount was a Paladin spell that said "You summon your personal unicorn mount."

Liberty's Edge

Cartigan wrote:
The problem being it is then a nonsensical spell to put on a wand.

Not necessarily. For instance, another summoner might want this spell. In society play I'll certainly be picking up a scroll of this at some point, for instance, for my summoner. Possibly before next game.

Quote:
It can't be UMD'd because only Summoners have Eidolons.

What if you were some variant summoner that gave up your spell list for something else? Sure, that hasn't been printed yet, but it's possible. It's also possible that they will print another Eidolon class.

Quote:
And how does this affect the new Summoner archetypes? The spell is too specific to make sense of making into a wand. It's like if the spell Mount was a Paladin spell that said "You summon your personal unicorn mount."

No, it would just be like "you summon your mount". It summons your Eidolon, much like Mage's Lucubration gives you your spells back. If you are a sorcerer casting that from a scroll somehow, it doesn't help you. Presumably, if you cast Nut Scratch and have no nuts via polymorph or being, you know, female, then it just doesn't do anything. Or if you cast cure light wounds on yourself at max health. Is that a bad wand because it doesn't do anything if you have no wounds to cure?

As for how it affects the new archetypes- it presumably works just like their summon Eidolon abilities. As in, it'll bring you your weak Eidolon temporarily (master summoner), temporarily give you your silly-looking-until-like-9th-level exo-form, or summon your crew of attack bunnies, depending.

Liberty's Edge

cfalcon wrote:
Cartigan wrote:


Quote:

You open a rift between dimensions that summons your eidolon.

Treat this as if you had summoned your eidolon normally, except that it only remains with you for the duration of this spell...

If instead it was Nut Scratch and it read your nuts are scratched as if by a good pinch-and-roll (normally a full round action), would you think that this spell affects the nuts of whomever crafted the wand?

Anything that talks about "you" and "your" refers to the caster, which is, of course, the one using the wand. So all summoners can get Summon Eidolon- it just summons THEIR Eidolon. The spell isn't specific, the result is. Much like the Nut Scratch spell.

Falcon Nut Scratch

School transmutation; Level bard 0, magus 0, sorcerer/wizard 0, summoner 0

CASTING

Casting Time 1 standard action
Components V, S

EFFECT

Range close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
Target: Self
Duration: concentration
Saving Throw none; Spell Resistance no

DESCRIPTION

Creates a hand of force in ones crotch.

treat as your nuts are scratched as if by a good pinch-and-roll (normally a full round action).

I would think a woman casting this spell would still feel something even if she did not have the object of the treat as.

But i do not think anyone but a summoner would be able to use the summon eidolon to summon an eidolon. On a plus side that a 30% cut in price.


Bavin Badgerheart wrote:


But i do not think anyone but a summoner would be able to use the summon eidolon to summon an eidolon. On a plus side that a 30% cut in price.

That's probably one of the few 'class restriction' magic items I'd allow in my games. I don't like that price reduction normally, but, it very much makes sense for something like this.

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