What are some things about the Pathfinder rules that you think most people do not know?


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion

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Howie23 wrote:

Animals do not gain armor proficiency via any form of trick training. The animal type description text regarding trained for war leaves the discussion as well. Armor proficiency for animals is obtained through feats. (Change or clarification from SRD/D&D)

Animals do not have to be proficient in armor to wear barding, but may have penalties depending on what barding they wear. (Same as SRD/D&D)

On that note, many people don't seem to realise that animal companions are allocated feats at all.

Animal Feats:
Animal companions can select from the following feats:

Acrobatic, Agile Maneuvers, Armor Proficiency (light, medium, and heavy), Athletic, Blind-Fight, Combat Reflexes, Diehard, Dodge, Endurance, Great Fortitude, Improved Bull Rush, Improved Initiative, Improved Natural Armor, Improved Natural Attack, Improved Overrun, Intimidating Prowess, Iron Will, Lightning Reflexes, Mobility, Power Attack, Run, Skill Focus, Spring Attack, Stealthy, Toughness, Weapon Finesse, and Weapon Focus.

Animal companions with an Intelligence of 3 or higher can select any feat they are physically capable of using. GMs might expand this list to include feats from other sources.


Mynameisjake wrote:
LilithsThrall wrote:
Aelryinth wrote:

SKR has consistently interpreted the rule in this manner.

==Aelryinth

I need a link to support this.

Elsewise, we should stick to RAW.

There is no RAW on this, only Rules As interpreted.

The definition of the word "wealth" is not RAI, it's RAW.

Unless you're going to rewrite the English language, this debate doesn't need to continue.

The end result is that, by RAW, how a person get's their assets has zero affect on how much valaue their assets can be under RAW.

And, Gorbacz, the people making discussion about crafting and WBL go on forever are those people who've never figured out how to use a dictionary. That's not me.

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 16

Msg Sean and he'll verify. Now, they may have changed the rules...but he's held firmly to that by the reason below.

If WBL doesn't take into account crafting, then you're better off never getting the crafting feats. You don't actually save anything, because turning less treasure into an item (i.e. the sell at 1/2 rule) doesn't actually net you anything. You turn 25k into a 50k item, hit the WBL, and the DM cuts you off.

Your friend with NO crafting feats, however, deserves a full 50k so he can have the same WBL that you do, and can buy the same item.

Sorry, doesn't wash. You spend a precious feat on crafting to make your money go further.

==Aelryinth


LilithsThrall wrote:
Aelryinth wrote:

SKR has consistently interpreted the rule in this manner.

==Aelryinth

I need a link to support this.

Elsewise, we should stick to RAW.

Sean K Reynolds essay

linked to from here (note this is pre-release)


Aelryinth wrote:

Msg Sean and he'll verify. Now, they may have changed the rules...but he's held firmly to that by the reason below.

If WBL doesn't take into account crafting, then you're better off never getting the crafting feats. You don't actually save anything, because turning less treasure into an item (i.e. the sell at 1/2 rule) doesn't actually net you anything. You turn 25k into a 50k item, hit the WBL, and the DM cuts you off.

Your friend with NO crafting feats, however, deserves a full 50k so he can have the same WBL that you do, and can buy the same item.

Sorry, doesn't wash. You spend a precious feat on crafting to make your money go further.

==Aelryinth

That is opinion only. Many GM's only allow you to get items that are in the book, and allow the feats if you want to create custom magic items, but you still don't get more wealth than anyone else.


Joana wrote:
LilithsThrall wrote:
Aelryinth wrote:

SKR has consistently interpreted the rule in this manner.

==Aelryinth

I need a link to support this.

Elsewise, we should stick to RAW.

Sean K Reynolds essay

linked to from here (note this is pre-release)

Everyone should note that he is stating an opinion of playstyle, not a rule here.

Liberty's Edge

Gorbacz wrote:
Guys, how about starting a separate thread on the WBL issue? Because if you're going to argue with LT here, it's gonna go on for miles and miles ... and this thread is actually useful.

Seconded.


LilithsThrall wrote:
Under the new rules section, you forgot that, in Pathfinder, WBL applies to existing characters, not just character creation.

What does that mean? Is it in the rulebook that if you have your suggested WBL (through whatever means), you're not allowed to gain or use any more money/treasure?


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wraithstrike wrote:
Joana wrote:
LilithsThrall wrote:
Aelryinth wrote:

SKR has consistently interpreted the rule in this manner.

==Aelryinth

I need a link to support this.

Elsewise, we should stick to RAW.

Sean K Reynolds essay

linked to from here (note this is pre-release)

Everyone should note that he is stating an opinion of playstyle, not a rule here.

Thanks for pointing that out! As a rule, it wouldn't make a bit of sense. As an opinion, it's fine. I could make an opinion that all Wizards have blue skin, whie hair, and tails because of constant exposure to magic. It'd make just as much sense and be just as much acceptable.

As I've said before, the value of the craft feat is that it allows for the creation of custom magic items. Assume you can purchase a staff that has the ability to do X, Y, and Z spells. You can, also, purchase a staff that can do A, B, and C spells. But, what you -want- is a staff that can do A, B, and Z spells. You can craft that. That way, you don't have to waste time during combat trading out staves in order to get the spells you want.

By RAW, WBL measures the value of your total assets. Some people need to look up the definition of the word "wealth" since it's clearly an unfamiliar word to them. The definition of the word "wealth" has no connection to how the asset is obtained - which is why, in determining your wealth, an item doesn't count as 0gp if you stole it to obtain it and it doesn't count as 1/2 gp if it is crafted.

Liberty's Edge

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I am putting the Wealth by Level matter in the Pending Resolution or More Complex than Can Be Dealt With Here section due to pervasive issues associated with soft rules and play style. Please conduct additional discussion with this in another thread and I will link that conversation.

Liberty's Edge

KigerWulf wrote:

"Reach: You use a reach weapon to strike opponents 10 feet away, but you can't use it against an adjacent foe."

Where is this rule located?

Under Equipment -> Weapons Qualities -> Special page 145

The Exchange

Rolling Initiative is a Dex check, so anything that gives you a bonus to Ability checks (like Good Hope) will add to you Initiative rolls as well.

Liberty's Edge

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LilithsThrall wrote:


The definition of the word "wealth" is not RAI, it's RAW.

Unless you're going to rewrite the English language, this debate doesn't need to continue.

The end result is that, by RAW, how a person get's their assets has zero affect on how much valaue their assets can be under RAW.

And, Gorbacz, the people making discussion about crafting and WBL go on forever are those people who've never figured out how to use a dictionary. That's not me.

Wealth by level is a suggested value, not a hard rule:

Quote:

Table: Character Wealth by Level lists the amount of treasure each PC is expected to have at a specific level. Note that this table assumes a standard fantasy game. Low-fantasy games might award only half this value, while high-fantasy games might double the value. It is assumed that some of this treasure is consumed in the course of an adventure (such as potions and scrolls), and that some of the less useful items are sold for half value so more useful gear can be purchased.

It is much more useful as a way to evaluate the gear a new character starting at a level above 1 should have than for evaluating what should be the gear a character that has played for a time should have.

The individual choices in gear or activities will heavily influence the WBL of a character.
There is no reason for player that spend his "off time" having a merry time and living an extravagant lifestyle to have the same WBL of another player that spend his "off time" creating magic items or working at the forge and living only a comfortable lifestyle.

Sorry Gorbacz, first and last post here about this. But taking WBL as a rule in normal play is wrong.

Aelryinth wrote:


If WBL doesn't take into account crafting, then you're better off never getting the crafting feats. You don't actually save anything, because turning less treasure into an item (i.e. the sell at 1/2 rule) doesn't actually net you anything. You turn 25k into a 50k item, hit the WBL, and the DM cuts you off.

With a GM playing that way I will always opt for the most expensive lifestyle and on burning my extra money in expendable magic items (or giving it away on church donation and charities) as I, for some strange reason, will get more money/items that my fellow adventurers investing in permanent gear.

I don't see any reason to have the same WBL of my fellow party members if I burn half of it every level in expendables while they buy permanent magic items.

And especially, I will never, ever buy a house and furniture.

[I really wish for a underline feature for the forum. It would be better than bolding in some situation.]


kingpin wrote:
Rolling Initiative is a Dex check, so anything that gives you a bonus to Ability checks (like Good Hope) will add to you Initiative rolls as well.

... oh, oh wow. Good Hope just keeps looking sexier.

Liberty's Edge

Baroh Steelcleave wrote:

** spoiler omitted **

What I was pointing out in regards to the OP's topic was that in 3.5 potions that depend on caster level as a variable were based on the creator. In Pathfinder, they're based on the imbiber.

From the PRD about potions.

Quote:
Potions are like spells cast upon the imbiber. The character taking the potion doesn't get to make any decisions about the effect—the caster who brewed the potion has already done so. The drinker of a potion is both the effective target and the caster of the effect (though the potion indicates the caster level, the drinker still controls the effect).

To me the bolded part say that the potion determine the CL of the potion, not the level (or lack of it) of the guy drinking the potion.


That rolling a natural 1 on a saving throw damages a random magic item.

That natural attacks from any source become secondary when you wield a manufactured weapon.

That if you roll a 1 when activating a magic item with UMD you can't attempt to activate it for the rest of the day.

That wizards learning spells aside from those gained at a level takes them one hour per spell level, costs level of spell squared even if you have the scroll, and that you have to roll a Spellcraft check of DC 15 + spell level to learn the spell, and if you fail it cannot attempt to learn that spell again for an entire level.

Seriously, that is why I play divine spellcasters. Too much freaking homework and wasted time around the table for all parties involved when you play a wizard.

Scarab Sages

Madcap Storm King wrote:
That wizards learning spells aside from those gained at a level takes them one hour per spell level, costs level of spell squared even if you have the scroll, and that you have to roll a Spellcraft check of DC 15 + spell level to learn the spell, and if you fail it cannot attempt to learn that spell again for an entire level.

You can take a 10 on that Spellcraft check (assuming nobody is distracting you when you're trying to add spells to your spellbook). Having a check in the first place seems silly to me, as a wizard who can't beat a 15 + spell level Spellcraft check on a 10 has allocated their skill points poorly. Unless you're trying to copy spells of a higher level than you can cast, I suppose.


Howie23 wrote:


My personal understanding is that WbL is a standard for total assets owned, regardless of how they were obtained. In other words, crafting doesn't result in a character being any richer or having any more stuff.

In 3.5 when figuring NPCs you could use 70% market price for items that they could craft.

Seeing as PF removed the xp costs on crafting (I can only surmise based on organized play experience) this was perforce altered.

-James

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 4

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You cannot take a 5-foot step in difficult terrain or poor visibility because:
Difficult terrain, obstacles, and poor visibility can hamper movement.
Also,
You can't run or charge through any square that would hamper your movement.


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Looking up what Jacobs said about intelligent animals reminded me of something:

Celestial and Fiendish templates no longer give the creature 3 Intelligence. All summoned animals are dumb as bricks and sit around and lick themselves. Hope you picked up Handle Animal, Wizard.
There are no magical beasts on the Summon Monster lists any more. And I am not counting the loss of up-intelligenced Celestial and Fiendish animals.

Liberty's Edge

Cartigan wrote:

All summoned animals are dumb as bricks and sit around and lick themselves. Hope you picked up Handle Animal, Wizard.

Keeping with the "refute only the patently false" theme on this thread, this is patently false.

Summon Animal I wrote:
The summoned ally appears where you designate and acts immediately, on your turn. It attacks your opponents to the best of its ability. If you can communicate with the creature, you can direct it not to attack, to attack particular enemies, or to perform other actions as you command.
Summon Monster I wrote:
This spell summons an extraplanar creature (typically an outsider, elemental, or magical beast native to another plane). It appears where you designate and acts immediately, on your turn. It attacks your opponents to the best of its ability. If you can communicate with the creature, you can direct it not to attack, to attack particular enemies, or to perform other actions.

So:

A) Wizards don't summon animals, they summon monsters.
B) Summoned creatures (whether monsters or animals) do not sit around and lick themselves. They do not, however, take orders unless you can communicate with them. If you can communicate with them (for instance via the Druid's Wild Shape ability), you simply order them about.

If there is information contradicting this, it has not been errata'd into the Core Rulebook as of yet that I can find.

Nobody get worried, I'm not going to spend pages arguing with Cartigan about this, and if I do, we'll make a new thread.

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 4

Cartigan wrote:
All summoned animals are dumb as bricks and sit around and lick themselves. Hope you picked up Handle Animal, Wizard.

However, the creature attacks your opponents to the best of its ability. You only need to communicate with the creature in order to direct it not to attack, to attack particular enemies, or to perform other actions.

summon monster I
Edit - I've been ninja'd


1. Reach weapons for small and medium creatures have a reach of 10 feet. Despite a diagram that says otherwise, they can still attack two squares on a diagonal.

Where is this errata'd or clarified?


MillerHero wrote:
Cartigan wrote:
All summoned animals are dumb as bricks and sit around and lick themselves. Hope you picked up Handle Animal, Wizard.

However, the creature attacks your opponents to the best of its ability. You only need to communicate with the creature in order to direct it not to attack, to attack particular enemies, or to perform other actions.

summon monster I
Edit - I've been ninja'd

I was being hyperbolic.

Reagardless, the Celestial and Fiendish templates no longer convey an Intelligence hike to 3 from animal intelligence.


Still a great thread.

I am seeing things in the "already in 3.5" list that I can't believe are not commonly known. Some of them, to me, seem pretty fundamental to the way certain aspects of the game work and to have never known about them would lead to some pretty serious misconceptions about the game as written.

For instance items 3,5,6,8,9,10,11,13,14,21,24,25,27,28,30,33 to me seem like very important balancing rules that if a group is unaware of them could give a very different impression of the game. I wonder how much of this lack of rule familiarity has contributed to various complaints about 3.5.

How about rules #25, 26, and 27? So no one ever thought about how not following these rules makes skills pretty much useless?

Or rule #21? So you mean in many 3.5 games wizards could cast summon monster and have that monster appear AND attack in that round? Wow.

Perhaps my favorite is #6. So what was the assumption before this? That you can cast it as a standard action?? Wow.

Weird that RPG players are (apparently) continually demanding new rule books when it seems like so much of the existing rules are either unknown or misinterpreted. Whatever happened to the 3.x design goal of "Game Mastery"? I always loved that concept. It seems like it is turning into "Errata mastery" now.


2010 James Jacobs
2011 James Jacobs

So the orignal ruling for reach weapons was no, but updated to Yes you can attack the diagonal square (at 15') because otherwise it would be lame


David Thomassen wrote:

2010 James Jacobs

2011 James Jacobs

So the orignal ruling for reach weapons was no, but updated to Yes you can attack the diagonal square (at 15') because otherwise it would be lame

For some reason it specifies you can attack two squares at a diagonal which would be 5' - 15'. Just wanted clarity on that part because it's saying the diagrams are wrong.


2010:
OXXXO
XOOOX
XOFOX
XOOOX
OXXXO

2011:
XXXXX
XOOOX
XOFOX
XOOOX
XXXXX

where "X" is threatened / can be attacked by a Medium / Small Creature weilding a standard reach weapon.


David Thomassen wrote:

2010:

OXXXO
XOOOX
XOFOX
XOOOX
OXXXO

2011:
XXXXX
XOOOX
XOFOX
XOOOX
XXXXX

where "X" is threatened / can be attacked by a Medium / Small Creature weilding a standard reach weapon.

Okay, I understand that. Why are they saying...

Reach weapons for small and medium creatures have a reach of 10 feet. Despite a diagram that says otherwise, they can still attack two squares on a diagonal.

That implies:

xxxxx
xxoxx
xoFox
xxoxx
xxxxx

So really it should read: Reach weapons for small and medium creatures have a reach of 10 feet. Despite a diagram that says otherwise, they can still attack on the second square out on a diagonal.

xxxxx
xooox
xoFox
xooox
xxxxx


Madcap Storm King wrote:


That wizards learning spells aside from those gained at a level takes them one hour per spell level, costs level of spell squared even if you have the scroll, and that you have to roll a Spellcraft check of DC 15 + spell level to learn the spell, and if you fail it cannot attempt to learn that spell again for an entire level.

Seriously, that is why I play divine spellcasters. Too much freaking homework and wasted time around the table for all parties involved when you play a wizard.

Ok first fo all the inscribing cost is (spell level)^2 times 10, and this cost really is a very small one. And the DC is pretty much an auto success, unless you are trying to write 6th+ level spells at 3rd level you should not worry yourself with this roll.


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Trying to keep the thread alive. Please move arguments to different threads.

"Mithral weapons count as silver for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction."


Some call me Tim wrote:

Trying to keep the thread alive. Please move arguments to different threads.

"Mithral weapons count as silver for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction."

Really? Is that new? Don't need no stinking terrible alchemical silver weapons no more.


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Cartigan wrote:
Some call me Tim wrote:

Trying to keep the thread alive. Please move arguments to different threads.

"Mithral weapons count as silver for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction."

Really? Is that new? Don't need no stinking terrible alchemical silver weapons no more.

Alchemical Silver is not all that bad. It's damage penalty (which isn't even that big of a deal) only applies to piercing and slashing weapons. Just get a silver mace or something.

Dark Archive Bella Sara Charter Superscriber

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Dot-dot-dot

Dash-dash-dash

dot-dot-dot

Liberty's Edge

Feather fall:
It can target one creature per caster level on each casting, and it lasts one round per level (or until you land).

Most folks I play with seem to think it only affects one creature, or that it must be cast while the person in question is falling and has no real duration.

Shadow Lodge

Diego Rossi wrote:

Quote:

Cover

When making a melee attack against an adjacent target, your target has cover if any line from any corner of your square to the target's square goes through a wall (including a low wall). When making a melee attack against a target that isn't adjacent to you (such as with a reach weapon), use the rules for determining cover from ranged attacks.

Quote:
Touch Attacks: Some attacks completely disregard armor, including shields and natural armor—the aggressor need only touch a foe for such an attack to take full effect. In these cases, the attacker makes a touch attack roll (either ranged or melee). When you are the target of a touch attack, your AC doesn't include any armor bonus, shield bonus, or natural armor bonus. All other modifiers, such as your size modifier, Dexterity modifier, and deflection bonus (if any) apply normally. Some creatures have the ability to make incorporeal touch attacks. These attacks bypass solid objects, such as armor and shields, by passing through them. Incorporeal touch attacks work similarly to normal touch attacks except that they also ignore cover bonuses. Incorporeal touch attacks do not ignore armor bonuses granted by force effects, such as mage armor and bracers of armor.

Soft cover and firing into meele count for spells that require a ranged touch attack.

Cover (the standard kind, like a wall) count for meele touch attacks.

This, incidentally, is the advantage that Long Limbs gets over Reach Spell. That touch attack is still a melee touch attack, so it ignores being in melee and soft cover.

Liberty's Edge

I . this thread.


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Ok, assuming it wasn't fixed with errata (and, if memory serves):

Simulacrum - no longer requires a piece of the creature to be duplicated as part of the spell components.

One of the first thing I house-ruled.

And, this is a great thread!

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

Melee touch attacks with reach still suffer from cover caused by allies in the way don't they? I've always assuemd they worked the same way as a longspear?

Long limbs means you can 5' step, cast and touch attack without provoking or casting defensively (unless the enemy has reach too). A normal spellcaster can 5' step and cast but then won't be able to deliver the spell until next round when they step back in again.

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

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I don't think this is in the list:

You can't ready or delay outside combat. If you want to fire immediately after the door is opened you need to have surprise, otherwise the enemy may react faster than you no matter how ready you thought you were.

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

Protection from Evil grants a new save at +2 vs evil spells or effects; it doesn't automatically suppress any ongoing effects. This is a change from 3.5.


Feel free to tell me I'm an idiot, but I NEVER realized before today that Delay Poison grants poison immunity if used before the poisoning happens. Man that spell could use a better name.

Dark Archive

Summons no longer have access to spell-like abilities that duplicate spells with costly material components (although they already wouldn't use spell-likes that would cost xp as spells in 3.5).


This is a left over from 3.5, but I still see it coming up a lot on the websites.

A) The item creation rules were not used to create unique items, and they cannot be used to 'figure out' how a unique item was priced, as unique items have unique prices (and caster levels).

B) You cannot enchant unique armor/weapons/shields any further with regards to enhancements. You can stack a second ability on (such as adding the effects of a ring of protection to Celestial Armor) with GM permission, but you can't make +5 Celestial Armor by the core rules. This is because of the unique prices of the unique items, and there being no way to determine how much of the price comes from enhancement and just tacked on abilities. Note that unique MW items (like darkwood bucklers) can still be enchanted normally under the rules. You can also add monetary enhancement to them, like Transformative, as those don't deal with effective enhancement levels.

Liberty's Edge

mdt wrote:

This is a left over from 3.5, but I still see it coming up a lot on the websites.

A) The item creation rules were not used to create unique items, and they cannot be used to 'figure out' how a unique item was priced, as unique items have unique prices (and caster levels).

B) You cannot enchant unique armor/weapons/shields any further with regards to enhancements. You can stack a second ability on (such as adding the effects of a ring of protection to Celestial Armor) with GM permission, but you can't make +5 Celestial Armor by the core rules. This is because of the unique prices of the unique items, and there being no way to determine how much of the price comes from enhancement and just tacked on abilities. Note that unique MW items (like darkwood bucklers) can still be enchanted normally under the rules. You can also add monetary enhancement to them, like Transformative, as those don't deal with effective enhancement levels.

I disagree, you can enhance them. Some of the powers of special items are not priced, so you should gauge the actual cost of those powers, like you do when crafting some of the other magic items like rings.

Quote:
Ring costs are difficult to determine. Refer to Table: Estimating Magic Item Gold Piece Values and use the ring prices in the ring descriptions as a guideline.

I think this is the kind of stuff that each GM should rule as he see fit.


Diego Rossi wrote:


I disagree, you can enhance them. Some of the powers of special items are not priced, so you should gauge the actual cost of those powers, like you do when crafting some of the other magic items like rings.

The GM can do it by DM fiat, everything can be done by GM fiat, which is what you are saying. By the rules, there's no way of determining if those special abilities are +1 or +2 enhancement equivalents or if they are just add on powers like Transformative. Again, the GM can decide to do it however he wants, but the RAW do not support it at all, in any way. The only thing the RAW support is adding gp only effects (like Transformative), or adding other powers to it via the stacking rules.

Now, if you wanted to 'stack' a +5 enhancement onto it, that overrode the +1 or +2 or +3 of the item, and paid for a +5 enhancement stacked on, then I suppose that would be supported by RAW, but it would be a funky way of reading the stacking rules.

Liberty's Edge

In general, I will not be including magic item creation detail or spell change detail in the itemized list. If someone else wants to do so, they are welcome to it.

Liberty's Edge

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Frequently Unknown Rules (through post 400)
Frequently unknown rules

including summary from:

Things you might have missed

Format is a bit messy...running against the clock or resort. Will repair on next iteration. Now in order by Type of Change (new to PF, always like this, etc.) and then by CRB chapter.

Change from SRD/D&D to Pathfinder (includes brand new to PF)
Races
1. Elves sleep, but are still immune to magical sleep.

Classes
1. Class HD changes in many areas.
2. Barbarians rage x rounds/day instead of x times/day
3. Bardic performances no longer based on Perform skill (other than Countersong and Distraction) and the bard can do other things while performing without interrupting a performance, such as cast spells. In SRD/3.5, a verbal performance would be interrupted by spellcasting.
4. Bardic Knowledge is changed. Bards get bonus to knowledge checks and can use untrained.
5. Clerics don’t get heavy armor proficiency, get proficiency with deities favored weapon, and need a feat to turn undead.
6. Fighters can retrain bonus feats.
7. Monk flurry of blows different.
8. Paladin double of smite against some creatures is on first attack only.
9. Caster level for ranger and paladins is class level –3 instead of class level/2.
10. Ranger favored enemy bonus applies to attack rolls as well as damage.
11. Cantrips and orisons are at-will
12. Uncanny Dodge changed: character with uncanny dodge is not flat-footed.
13. Wizard specialists can now take spells from their opposed schools, but such spells cost two slots to prepare. All wizards, whether specialist or not, gain abilities at levels based upon their specialty.
14. Wizards can opt to have a bonded object instead of a familiar. A bonded object provides various benefits for use and penalties if unavailable.

Skills
1. Concentration is no longer a skill. New mechanic makes it tougher for multi-classed characters.
2. Stealth/Perception changed in multiple ways from multiple skill set in SRD.
3. Alchemical items no longer require CL1 for some items.
4. Blind creatures use Acrobatics check to move faster than half speed else prone. Cannot run or charge.
5. Animals do not gain armor proficiency via any form of trick training. The animal type description text regarding trained for war leaves the discussion as well. Armor proficiency for animals is obtained through feats.

Feats
1. Many Shot and Rapid Shot can now be used together.
2. Dodge applies to all opponents, not just one specified opponent.
3. Improved Trip and Improved Disarm split into a feat tree (Improved and Greater)
4. Grapple works differently. Some highlights: grapplers no longer share space. Ranged attacks into a grapple no longer risk hitting the wrong target. Grappled creatures threaten surrounding squares and can attack into them (at –2 to hit). Effects on AC and sneak attack are debated (see below). Effectively, while changed, grapple is still problematic.
5. Power Attack, Cleave, Greater Cleave, and Combat Expertise all different.
6. Track is no longer a feat
7. Far Shot halves range penalty instead of increasing range.
8. Mounted Combat now uses immediate action rather than 1/round language.
9. Animals do not gain armor proficiency via any form of trick training. The animal type description text regarding trained for war leaves the discussion as well. Armor proficiency for animals is obtained through feats.
10. Vital Strike feat is a standard action. It cannot be used as part of a full attack, charge, or spring attack.

Equipment
1. Spiked chain no longer has reach.
2. Weapon enhancement bonus (the plus portion, not the cost equivalent) overcomes various DR at different DR than just magic.
3. Mithral weapons count as silver for overcoming DR/silver.
4. Mithral armor now requires proficiency in original type of armor, not just resulting armor.
5. Damaging Magic Weapons: An attacker cannot damage a magic weapon that has an enhancement bonus unless his weapon has at least as high an enhancement bonus as the weapon struck.

Additional Rules

Combat
1. Anything that improves attack rolls improves CMB, including weapon feats if using weapon for the special attack.
2. Sneak attack and critical damage applies to many additional creatures, including undead and constructs.
3. Characters can draw a weapon during a charge, but can only charge a single move distance and must have a BAB of +1. If charging a single move distance due to being restricted to a single action (surprise, slow, etc.), charging character must have Quickdraw to draw a weapon in the same round as a charge.
4. Stabilization and death changed.
5. Blind creatures use Acrobatics check to move faster than half speed else prone. Cannot run or charge.
6. Initiative is rolled prior to the start of surprise round for all combatants. In SRD/D&D, surprised characters do not roll initiative until after the surprise round is over.
7. If damage is less due to strength penalties such that damage would be less than 1, the damage in PF is 1 point of non-lethal. In SRD/D&D, the damage is reduced to 1 point of lethal.
8. Sunder can be used as a tactic that is not self-defeating for loot-loving PCs. Minor repair magic, such as mending and make whole, are more useful as a result.
9. Damaging Magic Weapons: An attacker cannot damage a magic weapon that has an enhancement bonus unless his weapon has at least as high an enhancement bonus as the weapon struck.

Magic
1. Concentration is no longer a skill. New mechanic makes it tougher for multi-classed characters.
2. Polymorph school spells have changed. See polymorph spells and specific spells, such as alter self.

Spells
1. Many save-or-die and save-or-suck spells have re-saves or more limited effects.
2. Cantrips and orisons are at-will
3. Gate spell changed from 2x level to 1x CL in terms of HD called/controlled.
4. Detect (alignment) spells work differently. They do not detect alignment auras at low hit dice, and can register based upon intentions rather than actual alignment or deeds.
5. Harm spell explicitly cannot reduce hit points below 1, whether the save is made or not.
6. Celestial and Fiendish templates, such as used with summon spells, do not advance Intelligence to 3. This reduces communication options related to language.
7. Summoned creatures cannot use spells or spell-like abilities that require expensive material components. Expensive material components are typically those that would need to be tracked with a cost of 1gp or more.
8. Protection from evil grants a resave at +2 and does not automatically suppress ongoing effects.

Prestige Classes

Gamemastering

Environment

NPCs

Magic Items
1. Magic item creation vastly changed. Note that there are various disagreements about exactly how it works, particularly with reference to prerequisites; those discussions are outside the scope of this document.
2. Magic item creation no longer uses XP.
3. Market Value of Magic Items (Language Pending)
4. Indentification of magic items changed significantly (see detect magic, identify, Spellcraft, and Perception)
5. Scrolls take a standard action, but longer if the spell contained has a longer casting time. (This may have been added in D&D add-on material as well, such as Rules Compendium).
6. A character can make a magic item without being a spell caster through the Master Crafsman feat.
7. Damaging Magic Weapons: An attacker cannot damage a magic weapon that has an enhancement bonus unless his weapon has at least as high an enhancement bonus as the weapon struck.

Appendices and Monster Rules
1. Poison rules incorporated into affliction and changed significatly; poison tougher all around.
2. Natural attacks changed. Creature can have multiple primary attacks.
3. Regeneration is simpler. See universal monster rule for regeneration.
4. Templates changed in many ways.
5. Incorporeal creatures take 50% of damage of effective attacks instead of only being affected for the full amount 50% of the time.
6. Ability damage results in a penalty for every full –2 damage. The result of such penalties are limited in scope depending on the ability. Contrast with ability drain.
7. Ability drain is required before losing benefits from skill points and ability prerequisites required to qualify for feats and prestige classes. Contrast with ability damage.
8. Animals do not gain armor proficiency via any form of trick training. The animal type description text regarding trained for war leaves the discussion as well. Armor proficiency for animals is obtained through feats.
9. Celestial and Fiendish templates, such as used with summon spells, do not advance Intelligence to 3. This reduces communication options related to language.

Always like this, but frequently misplayed or not known previously

Races

Classes
1. Inspire courage is free action to continue once having started.
2. Animal companions can be dismissed at will and replaced with 24 hours; note that new companion requires training other than bonus feats.
3. Animal companions gain feats as they gain hit dice.
4. Animals do not have to be proficient in armor to wear barding, but may have penalties depending on what barding they wear.
5. Sneak attack and other precision damage applies to every attack in a round, not just once per round.
6. Familiars and animal companions can be the target of spells that they can not normally be the target of, such as enlarge person.

Skills
1. Rules for tying up a character are in Grapple section.
2. Auto-success on a 20 and Auto Fail on a 1 are not universal to all rolls. They apply only when called out. Typical examples are attack rolls and saving throws. The following are not subject to auto-success/failure: Skill checks, caster level checks, concentration checks.
3. Take 10 on skill check can be used when not in immediate danger or distracted. Do not confuse with Take 20’s restriction from use if there is a negative consequence.
4. Take 20 cannot be used if there is a negative result for failure. Do not over-generalize to apply this to Take 10.

Feats
1. Ride-by Attack is still a mess.
2. Empower spell only applies to the rolled portion of the effect.
3. Metamagic applied to spontaneous casting (bards, sorcerers, etc.) and to class-based spontaneous casting (cleric’s spontaneous cure or druid’s spontaneous summon) take longer to cast. Such spells take a full round action (different than 1 round casting time) to cast if originally a standard action; spells with a casting time originally longer than a standard action take an additional full round action. A sorcerer’s empowered magic missile would take a full round action to cast, and would come into effect at the end of his turn; in contrast, a wizard’s enlarge person (with no metamagic), has a 1 round casting time and comes into effect at the start of the wizard’s next turn.

Equipment
1. Reach weapons can be used to attack opponents 10 feet away, but cannot be used against adjacent foes. Various feats and class abilities can make it possible to do so.
2. Animals do not have to be proficient in armor to wear barding, but may have penalties depending on what barding they wear.

Additional Rules
1. Darkvision is not spoiled by other light sources. (Different in comparison to some pre 3e versions of D&D)
2. Rolling a natural 1 on a saving throw can damage a randomly determined worn magic item.

Combat
1. Ranged attacks suffer from cover from objects, enemies, or allies. Allies often overlooked. Applies to reach weapons, ranged touch attacks, and melee touch attacks that have reach as well. (Last portion of this is subject to review).
2. Readying an action is a standard action. One can move first, and then ready. The readied action itself can be a standard, move, free, or swift action. (Note: could not explicitly be swift in SRD 3.5; swift was not in the SRD.) Can include 5’ step as part of the readied action if no other movement in either the readied action or prior to the readied action during regular turn.
3. Characters who use the run action lose Dex bonus to AC, and thus are subject to sneak attack.
4. Spells can crit if they have an attack roll.
5. Characters and creatures can charge a single move distance as a standard action if limited to a single action, such as during a surprise round. This doesn’t mean you can opt to only charge as a standard action if you have a full round of actions available.
6. Coup de grace can be performed against a creature with total concealment, such as invisibility, by using two full round actions.
7. Rules for tying up a character are in Grapple section.
8. Withdraw action can be double move. AoO only prevented from first square left.
9. You cannot take AoOs when flat-footed (usually in surprise round or before you have acted in first round) unless you have Combat Reflexes or a similar ability.
10. Ranged touch attacks (rays) and touch attacks can be the object of weapon improvement feats such as Weapon Focus, Weapon Specialization, Improved Critical, etc., and also benefit from feats such as Weapon Finesse.
11. A character can take only one immediate or swift action per round. Note: Swift and Immediate actions not part of the SRD, but commonly in use. (When does it reset language)
12. Reach weapons can be used to attack opponents 10 feet away, but cannot be used against adjacent foes. Various feats and class abilities can make it possible to do so.
13. Initiative is a Dexterity check, which is influenced by rules that modify ability checks.
14. When using manufactured and natural weaponry, all natural weapon attacks become secondary.
15. Difficult terrain and poor visibility hamper movement. You cannot take a 5-foot step nor charge in hampered movement.
16. The delay and ready special actions may be taken in initiative. When initiative starts is generally at the determination of the GM/DM. The ability to delay or ready an action outside of initiative should not be assumed and is subject to the individual table or playing group culture.

Magic
1. Spells can crit if they have an attack roll.
2. Empower spell only applies to the rolled portion of the effect.
3. Mutliple magical effcts that increase size do not stack.
4. Wizards learning new spells require time and a Spellcraft check. If the spellcraft check fails, it cannot be tried again until the wizard gains a rank in Spellcraft. The wizard may Take 10 on the Spellcraft check.

Spells
1. Lesser Restoration is a three round casting time. Usually, this means it isn’t used during combat. Potion of lesser restoration is good for in combat, though.
2. Enlarge person has a 1 round casting time.
3. Dimensional anchor has no saving throw, just spell resistance.
4. Harm (moved to item 50 of things that have changed)
5. Summon spells have 1 round casting times, even from wands.
6. Grease can be used to disarm.
7. A number of spell effects (remove disease, remove curse, knock, etc.) require a caster level check to be successful instead of automatically; this is not universal to all similar spells
8. Summoned creatures attack enemies without additional communication. Communication is required for other tasks or more specific instructions. Different groups may handle specific instructions differently.

Presige Classes

Gamemastering

Environment

NPCs

Magic Items
1. Weapons and armor must have +1 enhancement prior to gaining additional enchantments.
2. Summon spells have 1 round casting times, even from wands.
3. Using a wand with a casting time longer than a standard action takes that long to activate. A wand of summon monster I takes 1 round and a wand of lesser restoration takes 3 rounds. But, you have to know to look under the activation section at the start of the wand section to know this.
4. A character can use a wand with a spell on his class list, even if he can’t cast spells yet. For example, a 3rd level paladin can use a wand of cure light wounds.
5. Spells with range of personal cannot be made into potions.

Appendices and Monster Rules
1. Immunity to cold/fire gives vulnerability to opposite. (Developers have indicated future change for this)
2. Elementals are immune to flanking and critical hits.
3. Creatures can often overcome the DR that is needed to hit them (magic, epic, etc.)
4. Fear effects stack or escalate; characters can become more fearful.
5. When using manufactured and natural weaponry, all natural weapon attacks become secondary.

It’s the same between SRD and PF, but PF makes it confused

1. Reach weapons for small and medium creatures have a reach of 10 feet. Despite a diagram that says otherwise, they can still attack two squares on a diagonal.
2. Double weapons are two-handed weapons with special properties regarding two-handed fighting. If a double weapon is used in one hand, only one end can be used. The missing text that clarifies things is that using a two-handed weapon with one hand only happens if it is sized smaller than you or you have an additional rules resource to permit it.

It’s the same between SRD and PF, but PF makes it clear

1. Wizards with prestige classes only get 2 free spells when gaining a level of wizard, not when gaining a level of the prestige class.
2. Ranged touch attacks provoke an attack of opportunity, even if the spell that causes the attacks was cast defensively. (In 3.5, this was subject to variance.)

Pending Resolution or More Complex than Can Be Dealt With Here
1. Quickened Spell on spells with casting time of 1 round. (see discussion in rules section of forum, here.
2. What is the interaction between grapple, pin, AC, Dex Bonus to AC, sneak attack? Contradictory rules (particularly when inclusive of condition table footnotes) are contradictory or ambiguous. discussion thread.
3. Defending Weapons discussion thread.
4. The arcane topic of dragon skin armor.
5. The role of Wealth by Level and interaction with crafting, consumables, wizard spell book, etc.


RAW allows you to Craft additional ablities on top of those already in an item, even diffrent types of items.
That is, you could use Forge Ring to give your necklace of fireballs the same powers as a ring of invisibility. This comes with a 50% increase in price for the new enchantment though.

This does make the crafting feats into more than just some extra cash in settings with the normal acces to magic items. (I am playing in a campaign with NO ways to buy magic items, they can only be found, and these feats are lifesavers)

RAI may be that you are supposed improve upon the enchantment in an item,a +1 sword being made into +3 sword or that ring of invisibility being made into a "ring of wizardry and invisibility".
I.e. you can only craft items with other other ablities that use the same crafting feat as the original item.

Shadow Lodge

Again, please move your discussion of WBL vs Crafting to another threat, or at least use Spoilers about it.

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