What are some things about the Pathfinder rules that you think most people do not know?


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion

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Jiggy wrote:
FlySkyHigh wrote:

There's a feat to remove penalties from firing while prone.

No such penalties exist.

The feat got eratta'd to actually do something. It's noted in the FAQ somewhere. :)

Sweet jesus, I might have to find it. I had a player bring that up the other day and it boggled my mind. I'll have to look into it, thanks!


I just found out recently that rogues are the only base/core class that can disarm magic traps (well the ones that do something instant). Made my player whos playing a rogue feel more important that only he can do a certain task.

Scarab Sages

Dotted


Ok, read through the whole thread and I saw something close to this a while back, but not this:
You can make a full-round ranged attack from the back of a mount while moving with no penalty, so long as you only single move.
Huzzah, mounted archer moving 50ft per round and full-round attacking! This added mobility helps take care of some of those pesky cover rules.

explaination if needed:

prd-combat-Combat while Mounted wrote:

Combat while Mounted: With a DC 5 Ride check, you can guide your mount with your knees so as to use both hands to attack or defend yourself. This is a free action.

...

You can use ranged weapons while your mount is taking a double move, but at a –4 penalty on the attack roll. You can use ranged weapons while your mount is running (quadruple speed) at a –8 penalty. In either case, you make the attack roll when your mount has completed half its movement. You can make a full attack with a ranged weapon while your mount is moving. Likewise, you can take move actions normally.{/quote}

My take away:
You can FRA while moving, -4 for double move, -8 for run, -0 for stationary or single move.

Also, if you don't mind the hit to your dmg... A small rider can ride a medium size mount and take it along pretty much anywhere a normal PC can go.

Dark Archive

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My contribution:

Although druids and the like replacing their animals sounds cool, don't forget that they arrive untrained - i.e. they will only have their free tricks.

There is no such thing as a light club or a two-handed club, and a greatclub isn't a club (with particular reference to Shillelagh).

You can't AoO something swimming past you if you are on land unless you have Freedom of Movement because they get improved cover from you (+8 AC!)

Zombies lose their special attacks (e.g. zombie Giant Squids cant constrict).

Richard


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This may be a really basic thing, but I just discovered 3+ ranks in Acrobatics boosts your (dodge) AC when Fighting Defensively and using Total Defense.

Shadow Lodge

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Cleanthes wrote:
Including potions, scrolls, anything. Scribed up a scroll of a cantrip? You're done crafting for the day, bub.

Not true. It worked that way in 3.5 but PF changed that so that you could create a few low lelel spell or very cheap items more often.

Sovereign Court

Another thing that I'm pretty sure was in 3.5 but a lot of people don't seem to know about that I've found...

Magic Chapter: Durations wrote:
Timed Durations: Many durations are measured in rounds, minutes, hours, or other increments. When the time is up, the magic goes away and the spell ends. If a spell's duration is variable, the duration is rolled secretly so the caster doesn't know how long the spell will last.

Pretty important rule for things like Color Spray and so forth. Your not supposed to know how long their out for.

Grand Lodge RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

Morgen wrote:

Another thing that I'm pretty sure was in 3.5 but a lot of people don't seem to know about that I've found...

Magic Chapter: Durations wrote:
Timed Durations: Many durations are measured in rounds, minutes, hours, or other increments. When the time is up, the magic goes away and the spell ends. If a spell's duration is variable, the duration is rolled secretly so the caster doesn't know how long the spell will last.
Pretty important rule for things like Color Spray and so forth. Your not supposed to know how long their out for.

Good find! I'm planning to pick up burst of radiance as my PFS sorceress' first 2nd-level spell, and I was wondering whether I should be asking GMs ahead of time how they wanted to handle the duration of the blindness/dazzling. Now I know how it's supposed to work! :D

Grand Lodge RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

A depressing little tidbit about Eschew Materials:

Quote:
You can cast any spell with a material component costing 1 gp or less without needing that component.

What's wrong with that, you ask? This:

Spell component pouch wrote:
A spellcaster with a spell component pouch is assumed to have all the material components and focuses needed for spellcasting...

(Bolding mine.)

Eschew Materials only bypasses material components, not focuses.

I, for one, was disappointed to learn that my sorceress still needs to carry a spell component pouch (at least, if she intends to ever cast mage armor, read magic, silent image...)

:(

Liberty's Edge

"Devil's Advocate" wrote:
Cleanthes wrote:
Including potions, scrolls, anything. Scribed up a scroll of a cantrip? You're done crafting for the day, bub.
Not true. It worked that way in 3.5 but PF changed that so that you could create a few low lelel spell or very cheap items more often.

True, Devil's Advocate.

PRD wrote:


Regardless of the time needed for construction, a caster can create no more than one magic item per day.

and

PRD wrote:


Scribing a scroll requires 1 day per 1,000 gp of the base price. Although an individual scroll might contain more than one spell, each spell must be scribed as a separate effort, meaning that no more than 1 spell can be scribed in a day.

Pathfinder allow you to create a single item worth 250 gp or less in 2 hours, but not more than 1 item in a day.


I just recently found out that higher levels of magic weapons bypass different types of DR, such as +3 weapons bypassing Silver and Cold Iron.


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Morgen wrote:

Another thing that I'm pretty sure was in 3.5 but a lot of people don't seem to know about that I've found...

Magic Chapter: Durations wrote:
Timed Durations: Many durations are measured in rounds, minutes, hours, or other increments. When the time is up, the magic goes away and the spell ends. If a spell's duration is variable, the duration is rolled secretly so the caster doesn't know how long the spell will last.
Pretty important rule for things like Color Spray and so forth. Your not supposed to know how long their out for.

Huh. It's been a while since this thread surprised me. Thanks!


visitorq wrote:

Ok, read through the whole thread and I saw something close to this a while back, but not this:

You can make a full-round ranged attack from the back of a mount while moving with no penalty, so long as you only single move.
Huzzah, mounted archer moving 50ft per round and full-round attacking! This added mobility helps take care of some of those pesky cover rules.

** spoiler omitted **

Also, if you don't mind the hit to your dmg... A small rider can ride a medium size mount and take it along pretty much anywhere a normal PC can go.

Pfft horses! Just have the part arcane caster put him on a floating disk.


Today I Learned:

that you can actually move through an enemy square if they are three category sizes larger than (or smaller than) you are. It will still provoke, of course, and I am pretty sure you cannot end your turn in their space. But you can pass through their square and it isn't difficult terrain. I wonder, since it's not really an obstacle, could you charge through a Colossal creature to hit someone on the other side of it?

Quote:

Square Occupied by Creature Three Sizes Larger or Smaller:

Any creature can move through a square occupied by a creature three size categories larger than itself.

A big creature can move through a square occupied by a creature three size categories smaller than it is. Creatures moving through squares occupied by other creatures provoke attacks of opportunity from those creatures.

Silver Crusade

Jiggy wrote:

A depressing little tidbit about Eschew Materials:

Quote:
You can cast any spell with a material component costing 1 gp or less without needing that component.

What's wrong with that, you ask? This:

Spell component pouch wrote:
A spellcaster with a spell component pouch is assumed to have all the material components and focuses needed for spellcasting...

(Bolding mine.)

Eschew Materials only bypasses material components, not focuses.

I, for one, was disappointed to learn that my sorceress still needs to carry a spell component pouch (at least, if she intends to ever cast mage armor, read magic, silent image...)

:(

I had a 3.5 bard with Eschew Materials who had all the foci for his spells known disguised as various items, so he didn't need or carry a spell component pouch.

Spectacles combining small prisms and crystal disk for read magic, a collar stud with a glass eye for clairvoyance, a copper wire charm bracelet with a small horn as a charm for clairaudience, sound burst and message, etc.

Sovereign Court

Aye! Carrying your focuses on your person should work out just fine. You shouldn't need /that/ many things. ;)

Liberty's Edge

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Citing with the original poster that remembered it to me:

HangarFlying wrote:


I may be pointing out the obvious, but its important to remember that the range is the max range of the effects of the spell as well as the max distance to set an originating point of the spell.

So, a 20th level caster [using Wail of the Banshee] can set the target at 75 feet, but the guy at 80 feet won't be affected, even though he is within 40 feet of the center point.

The rule:

PRD wrote:

Range

A spell's range indicates how far from you it can reach, as defined in the range entry of the spell description. A spell's range is the maximum distance from you that the spell's effect can occur, as well as the maximum distance at which you can designate the spell's point of origin. [b]If any portion of the spell's area would extend beyond this range, that area is wasted.[b] Standard ranges include the following.

Very important for close range spells.


A very niche thing, but if your player wants to be a half-dragon for awesome breath attacks, he/she should note that it only scales with racial hit dice. I cannot remember if 3.5 was the same way.


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Carrying capacity for Small creatures are at 3/4 of a Medium creature, but most of their belongings weigh 1/2 the normal weight.

Profit?

Sovereign Court RPG Superstar 2011 Top 32

I just learned that apparently adding new abilities to an existing magic item determines the cost based on the order the abilities were added. I had assumed that item creation was, like everything else in Pathfinder, "order-neutral." So if your party finds a ring of +1 deflection and invisibility, it's worth either 23000gp or 32000gp depending on how it was made.

This has the interesting consequence that if you want to add a more expensive ability to an item, it's often cheaper just to buy the more expensive item then add the cheaper ability, while selling your old item.
Algebraic proof under the spoiler:

Spoiler:
let a be the cost of a cheaper ability, and b be the cost of a more expensive. We have:
b > a
Say a PC has ability a already. The cost of adding b is 1.5b.
The cost of buying a new item of b is b, then adding ability a costs 1.5a. but we get to subtract .5a due to selling our old item of a.
compare 1.5b to b+1.5a-.5a=b+a
if 1.5b > b+a, => .5b > a, it is cheaper to do the sell/new item approach.

If the new ability is more than twice as expensive on its own than the cost of the old item, the switch is the better plan.


Mythic +10 Artifact Toaster wrote:
A very niche thing, but if your player wants to be a half-dragon for awesome breath attacks, he/she should note that it only scales with racial hit dice. I cannot remember if 3.5 was the same way.

3.5 did it by Racial HD, not class levels, which was confusing as hell. I could barely find the ruling on that; most other templates works off of class levels that I found. Not sure why Half-Dragon was the exception.

But you can't really be a Half-Dragon in PF anyways; they removed the Level Adjustment, since Paizo doesn't think PC's should have templates like that. I guess if your DM likes you a whole lot, they could let you play one(and radically unbalance the party at the same time).


Josh M. wrote:
Mythic +10 Artifact Toaster wrote:
A very niche thing, but if your player wants to be a half-dragon for awesome breath attacks, he/she should note that it only scales with racial hit dice. I cannot remember if 3.5 was the same way.

3.5 did it by Racial HD, not class levels, which was confusing as hell. I could barely find the ruling on that; most other templates works off of class levels that I found. Not sure why Half-Dragon was the exception.

But you can't really be a Half-Dragon in PF anyways; they removed the Level Adjustment, since Paizo doesn't think PC's should have templates like that. I guess if your DM likes you a whole lot, they could let you play one(and radically unbalance the party at the same time).

I believe paizo ruled that CR = LA in pathfinder. that being said it really isn't worth it for a 1d6 attack every 1d4 rounds.


Mythic +10 Artifact Toaster wrote:
Josh M. wrote:
Mythic +10 Artifact Toaster wrote:
A very niche thing, but if your player wants to be a half-dragon for awesome breath attacks, he/she should note that it only scales with racial hit dice. I cannot remember if 3.5 was the same way.

3.5 did it by Racial HD, not class levels, which was confusing as hell. I could barely find the ruling on that; most other templates works off of class levels that I found. Not sure why Half-Dragon was the exception.

But you can't really be a Half-Dragon in PF anyways; they removed the Level Adjustment, since Paizo doesn't think PC's should have templates like that. I guess if your DM likes you a whole lot, they could let you play one(and radically unbalance the party at the same time).

I believe paizo ruled that CR = LA in pathfinder. that being said it really isn't worth it for a 1d6 attack every 1d4 rounds.

Source/Link? As far as just getting a 1d6 attack, last I checked being a Half-Dragon gave you a lot more than that.

It just bums me out, because I've played dozens of template-race characters in 3.5, and effectively can't do it in PF. I loved playing Half-Dragons a lot, I didn't mind sacrificing a few levels for awesome flavor.

The Advanced Race Guide is nice and all, but can't outright replace what I could play before. Although, you can easily make some pretty powerful stuff with that book, too.


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Josh M. wrote:
Mythic +10 Artifact Toaster wrote:
Josh M. wrote:
Mythic +10 Artifact Toaster wrote:
A very niche thing, but if your player wants to be a half-dragon for awesome breath attacks, he/she should note that it only scales with racial hit dice. I cannot remember if 3.5 was the same way.

3.5 did it by Racial HD, not class levels, which was confusing as hell. I could barely find the ruling on that; most other templates works off of class levels that I found. Not sure why Half-Dragon was the exception.

But you can't really be a Half-Dragon in PF anyways; they removed the Level Adjustment, since Paizo doesn't think PC's should have templates like that. I guess if your DM likes you a whole lot, they could let you play one(and radically unbalance the party at the same time).

I believe paizo ruled that CR = LA in pathfinder. that being said it really isn't worth it for a 1d6 attack every 1d4 rounds.

Source/Link? As far as just getting a 1d6 attack, last I checked being a Half-Dragon gave you a lot more than that.

It just bums me out, because I've played dozens of template-race characters in 3.5, and effectively can't do it in PF. I loved playing Half-Dragons a lot, I didn't mind sacrificing a few levels for awesome flavor.

The Advanced Race Guide is nice and all, but can't outright replace what I could play before. Although, you can easily make some pretty powerful stuff with that book, too.

bestiary, Appendix 4, monsters as pcs wrote:

Treat

the monster’s CR as class levels when determining the
monster PC’s overall levels. For example, in a group of
6th-level characters, a minotaur (CR 4) would possess 2
levels of a core class, such as barbarian.

I agree they get alot more than a breath weapon, I just don't it's worth swallowing the LA, since the resistances will quickly thereafter become surmountable. The ability scores and nat armor is nice, but Advanced is better and only a CR +1. honestly half-dragon is still one of my favorite templates, I just wish it's CR scaled with it's racial hitdice, and started at cr +1.


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Silver bludgeoning weapons have no damage penalty

Contributor

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Squeezing does not prevent charges as it is not difficult terrain. Thus, a mount can be brought into a dungeon and squeeze-charge, albeit with a sizable penalty.

Sovereign Court

Sloanzilla wrote:
Silver bludgeoning weapons have no damage penalty.

Wow, +1 to you for that one. Totally missed it. Guess my silver weapon will be a hammer or something from now on.

Liberty's Edge

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donato wrote:
Squeezing does not prevent charges as it is not difficult terrain. Thus, a mount can be brought into a dungeon and squeeze-charge, albeit with a sizable penalty.

Charge is not prohibited only by difficult terrain. It is prohibited by anything that hinders movement. A squeezed creature's movement is hindered, as demonstrated by the extra movement cost. Squeeze charging doesn't work.

If further convo is needed on this, please start a separate thread and post a link to it.


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after 25 pages this might have already been mentioned but

The Heal skill is much ignored by my group due to magical healing being around but I recently started writing up a non-magic campaign so I gave it a full read.

The Heal skill can actually restore HPs equal to the patient's character level by using 1 hour of surgery and a DC 20 test. If you beat the DC by 5 he also heals extra HPs equal to your Wisdom Modifier.


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Morgen wrote:
Sloanzilla wrote:
Silver bludgeoning weapons have no damage penalty.
Wow, +1 to you for that one. Totally missed it. Guess my silver weapon will be a hammer or something from now on.

Only if your name is Maxwell.


Also, my investment in "Marge's Mithril Maces" probably isn't going to pay off.


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Sloanzilla wrote:

Also, my investment in "Marge's Mithril Maces" probably isn't going to pay off.

But 3M is a good company for investments.


darth_borehd wrote:
The Fireball spell damages unattended objects and sets flammable objects alight. It could conceivably be used for battlefield control instead of just attack.

To add to this. Fireball also melts all currency you might be holding on you, ignites your backpack, fries anything else you might have and on a saving throw of a natural 1, all damage spells also target a piece of your gear.


Scavion wrote:
darth_borehd wrote:
The Fireball spell damages unattended objects and sets flammable objects alight. It could conceivably be used for battlefield control instead of just attack.
To add to this. Fireball also melts all currency you might be holding on you, ignites your backpack, fries anything else you might have and on a saving throw of a natural 1, all damage spells also target a piece of your gear.

It does no such thing to currency you're holding/carrying. By you holding it, it's no longer an unattended object and therefore at worst it's subjected to a reflex save to see how long it takes you to put it out.

While on the subject of currency, though, coins have weight. Every 50 coins weighs 1 pound, so while any single coin might be effectively weightless, en masse they are not. It's actually much more weight effective for the party to find gems than gold coins, or trade commodities like saffron than silver or copper coins.


Crafting bows has its own skill separate from craft:weapons

Liberty's Edge

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Potions weight an ounce, so 16 potions would weight 1 pound.


Adam Daigle wrote:
GMs creating their own material can consider parts of the rules to be guidelines.

HA! Word


Diego Rossi wrote:
Potions weight an ounce, so 16 potions would weight 1 pound.

and 50 coins weighs 1 pound

Liberty's Edge

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I can't claim this one I'm just quoting it from another location, however it does seem that people don't know it so I think it fits and is important enough to warrant inclusion.

TOZ wrote:

Players are responsible for their own actions at table.

"The rules say I can" is no more excuse than "it is what my character would do".

It does not absolve the player of making the choice.


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jimibones83 wrote:
and 50 coins weighs 1 pound

hum, let's see if I get this right...

1 pound = about 0.45 kg, or 450 g.
50 coins = 450 g, or 9 g per coin
gold is 19.3 g per cubic cm, so 1 gold coin = 0,466 cubic cm

Which makes a gold coin's size somewhere between that of a penny (0.348 cm3) and a nickel (0.688 cm3), and almost half that of a quarter (0.808 cm3)

We're pretty far from big fat gold doubloons!

[edit] hum, this sound about right, according to wiki, a Spanish doubloon did weight 6 or 8 grams a pieces, depending on era...


Laurefindel wrote:
jimibones83 wrote:
and 50 coins weighs 1 pound

hum, let's see if I get this right...

1 pound = about 0.45 kg, or 450 g.
50 coins = 450 g, or 9 g per coin
gold is 19.3 g per cubic cm, so 1 gold coin = 0,466 cubic cm

Which makes a gold coin's size somewhere between that of a penny (0.348 cm3) and a nickel (0.688 cm3), and almost half that of a quarter (0.808 cm3)

We're pretty far from big fat gold doubloons!

[edit] hum, this sound about right, according to wiki, a Spanish doubloon did weight 6 or 8 grams a pieces, depending on era...

i would just like to point out the last time some one care about details that small with math we change the way Japans map looked


The actual Pathinder definitions for what the Alignments mean.


Kyras Ausks wrote:
i would just like to point out the last time some one care about details that small with math we change the way Japans map looked

Then they obviously didn't go into small enough details :)

Maths well done will get you the moon (or at least get you to it)

I though this was relevant because I've always imagined gold pieces to be the size of a Canadian loonie (about 1 inch in diameter), not smaller than a nickel.


That Mage hand Connot pick up magic objects.

I run into too many people who think otherwise.


Laurefindel wrote:
Kyras Ausks wrote:
i would just like to point out the last time some one care about details that small with math we change the way Japans map looked

Then they obviously didn't go into small enough details :)

Maths well done will get you the moon (or at least get you to it)

I though this was relevant because I've always imagined gold pieces to be the size of a Canadian loonie (about 1 inch in diameter), not smaller than a nickel.

don't get me wrong i applaud your math i just think its funny the amount of detail some people take to this game its like reading about how may melted condoms it took to make the first Aliens movie (*spoiler: more then you would think)


Laurefindel wrote:
jimibones83 wrote:
and 50 coins weighs 1 pound

hum, let's see if I get this right...

1 pound = about 0.45 kg, or 450 g.
50 coins = 450 g, or 9 g per coin
gold is 19.3 g per cubic cm, so 1 gold coin = 0,466 cubic cm

Which makes a gold coin's size somewhere between that of a penny (0.348 cm3) and a nickel (0.688 cm3), and almost half that of a quarter (0.808 cm3)

We're pretty far from big fat gold doubloons!

[edit] hum, this sound about right, according to wiki, a Spanish doubloon did weight 6 or 8 grams a pieces, depending on era...

It's worth bearing in mind that pennies and nickels are not made of copper and nickel, respectively. At least, not pure copper or nickel. They're typically either plated or alloyed depending on both coin and year.


Kyras Ausks wrote:
Laurefindel wrote:
Kyras Ausks wrote:
i would just like to point out the last time some one care about details that small with math we change the way Japans map looked

Then they obviously didn't go into small enough details :)

Maths well done will get you the moon (or at least get you to it)

I though this was relevant because I've always imagined gold pieces to be the size of a Canadian loonie (about 1 inch in diameter), not smaller than a nickel.

don't get me wrong i applaud your math i just think its funny the amount of detail some people take to this game its like reading about how may melted condoms it took to make the first Aliens movie (*spoiler: more then you would think)

Magic's Effect on Life in a Fantasy World.

RPG Superstar 2015 Top 16

A small one that annoys me enough to have house-ruled it in my game. This is unchanged from 3.5.

A saving throw entry containing "(harmless)" means there is no save unless the target specifically wants there to be one, so it at least changes the default. That's not the confusing part - I think everyone who knows the rules well enough to be aware of the (harmless) tag's existence realizes this.

A spell resistance entry containing "(harmless)", on the other hand, doesn't work any differently from one without it. The creature still has to lower its SR as a standard action to be affected. So contrary to the first sentence of the rule that ostensibly describes it, (harmless) does NOT have the same meaning in a Spell Resistance entry as it does in a Saving Throw entry. In fact, it doesn't have any meaning at all in the former context.

While I'm poking at obscure corners of the spell description rules, as far as I can tell, the (object) tag is entirely superfluous, in either of its possible contexts.

Liberty's Edge

From a recent thread:

Silver dragons are immune to acid.

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