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What are some things about the Pathfinder rules that you think most people do not know?


Pathfinder RPG General Discussion

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10 people marked this as FAQ candidate. Staff response: no reply required. 150 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I'll start.

A Bard doesn't need the Perform skill. The only performances that require it are Countersong and Distraction. Inspire Courage et al don't mention it at all, and you don't even need to use your primary artform when using it. It was intentionally left ambiguous so bards didn't have to keep on playing their instrument while using the performances. It's a free action to continue the performance.

Cheliax

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Being an old 3.5er... i recently read the PFSRD FAQ page...

Many Shot feat can now be used with Rapid Shot Feat... which was a big No No in 3.5. Big news to me.


11 people marked this as a favorite.

Druid companions can be dismissed at will and replaced at no cost within 24 hours with ANY terrain appropriate alternative. Yesterday a tiger, tomorrow a combat trained mount, next week a T-Rex...

Paizo Employee Developer

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GMs creating their own material can consider parts of the rules to be guidelines.

Qadira

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When using a ranged weapon, if there is anything blocking line of effect or providing cover, or a creature (enemy OR ALLY) in between you and your target, the target is given a +4 cover (soft in case of creatures) bonus to AC (unless you have certain feats).

This applies to reach weapons as well when used against targets that are not adjacent to you (such as with a spiked chain or with certain class abilities that allow you to use a reach weapon against an adjacent opponent).

I've lost count of the number of times people have been surprised by this, mainly that allies can provide an opponent with soft cover.


2 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Verse wrote:

When using a ranged weapon, if there is anything blocking line of effect or providing cover, or a creature (enemy OR ALLY) in between you and your target, the target is given a +4 cover (soft in case of creatures) bonus to AC (unless you have certain feats).

This applies to reach weapons as well when used against targets that are not adjacent to you (such as with a spiked chain or with certain class abilities that allow you to use a reach weapon against an adjacent opponent).

I've lost count of the number of times people have been surprised by this, mainly that allies can provide an opponent with soft cover.

Suddenly the Precise Shot feat lines sound a lot better!


Verse wrote:

When using a ranged weapon, if there is anything blocking line of effect or providing cover, or a creature (enemy OR ALLY) in between you and your target, the target is given a +4 cover (soft in case of creatures) bonus to AC (unless you have certain feats).

This applies to reach weapons as well when used against targets that are not adjacent to you (such as with a spiked chain or with certain class abilities that allow you to use a reach weapon against an adjacent opponent).

I've lost count of the number of times people have been surprised by this, mainly that allies can provide an opponent with soft cover.

Coincidentally one of our group mentioned this to our GM for our session last night. Our group has never applied this rule, so the question was, would he (and we) house rule this, or stick to RAW.

For that entire session I used my bow as much as possible with rapid shot to force him t make a decision. Every roll made (and it was well over a dozen) was either too high or too low to force the issue. So we still don't know how he will rule. In my PF campaign we'll follow the rule.


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Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber

Didn't know that about Druids... Good thread


Aldin wrote:
Druid companions can be dismissed at will and replaced at no cost within 24 hours with ANY terrain appropriate alternative. Yesterday a tiger, tomorrow a combat trained mount, next week a T-Rex...

I knew this and have even contemplated using it once or twice in the past four years (I'm pretty sure this was true in 3.5 as well).

However, as a GM, if a druid's player kept dismissing animal companions for convenience, I would probably his his/her deity or Mother Nature herself visit them and have the druid explain, in character, why doing that was not a callous and selfish action.

I might be convinced otherwise, but I would at least have them explain it to their source of power.

Lantern Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Modules, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Don't know if this qualifies as "most people," but at least 3 of the folks that I regularly game with think that you can enchant a weapon or piece of armor without it having at least a +1 enhancement bonus first.

All magical weapons and armor must have at least a +1 enhancement bonus in order to add further enchantments. You cannot simply have a magical flaming dagger; it must be a +1 or better flaming dagger.

They claim that the rule was different in 3/3.5, but I think they're just recalling old houserules.

Also, on the matter of the druid, I totally forgot that bit. Allows for great versatility if the campaign shifts environments significantly. Under the sea this week? Cool; I always wanted a shark. Climbing the highest mountain peaks this time? It's time to Roc! Sorry, Mr Wizard; you're stuck with your toad.


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Cheapy wrote:
Verse wrote:

When using a ranged weapon, if there is anything blocking line of effect or providing cover, or a creature (enemy OR ALLY) in between you and your target, the target is given a +4 cover (soft in case of creatures) bonus to AC (unless you have certain feats).

This applies to reach weapons as well when used against targets that are not adjacent to you (such as with a spiked chain or with certain class abilities that allow you to use a reach weapon against an adjacent opponent).

I've lost count of the number of times people have been surprised by this, mainly that allies can provide an opponent with soft cover.

Suddenly the Precise Shot feat lines sound a lot better!

Precise shot is not related to this issue, the cover is in addition to the -4 penalty you get for firing at a creature in hand-to-hand combat, together they can give you an impressive 'penalty' to hit.


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Remco Sommeling wrote:


Precise shot is not related to this issue, the cover is in addition to the -4 penalty you get for firing at a creature in hand-to-hand combat, together they can give you an impressive 'penalty' to hit.

It's late and I'm about to hit the sack, so I'm not going to go look this up, but I believe the "improved precise shot" feat allows you to ignore this cover penalty, but you have to have "precise shot" first, which is what Verse was referring to when he said the "Precise Shot feat lines."


7 people marked this as a favorite.
brassbaboon wrote:
However, as a GM, if a druid's player kept dismissing animal companions for convenience, I would probably his his/her deity or Mother Nature herself visit them and have the druid explain, in character, why doing that was not a callous and selfish action.

Seriously? Mumsy "Survival of the Fittest" Nature is going to have a problem with a bit of selection weeding out the unfit? She's got a problem with her champion choosing terrain-appropriate companions? It just makes perfect sense to me that the Druid always has the ability to have an appropriate companion regardless of terrain. Especially useful in cases where you're going from areas where something Large and stompy like a T-Rex makes sense to an area where the poor dino would neither fit nor be happy like a cave or a city.

Grand Lodge

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Readying an action, is itself a standard action. It restricts you to ONE of movement or standard actions. You cannot move and then do something as part of the readied action.


brassbaboon wrote:
Remco Sommeling wrote:


Precise shot is not related to this issue, the cover is in addition to the -4 penalty you get for firing at a creature in hand-to-hand combat, together they can give you an impressive 'penalty' to hit.
It's late and I'm about to hit the sack, so I'm not going to go look this up, but I believe the "improved precise shot" feat allows you to ignore this cover penalty, but you have to have "precise shot" first, which is what Verse was referring to when he said the "Precise Shot feat lines."

ah right, my bad, can't recall that feat from the top of my head


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Aldin wrote:
brassbaboon wrote:
However, as a GM, if a druid's player kept dismissing animal companions for convenience, I would probably his his/her deity or Mother Nature herself visit them and have the druid explain, in character, why doing that was not a callous and selfish action.
Seriously? Mumsy "Survival of the Fittest" Nature is going to have a problem with a bit of selection weeding out the unfit? She's got a problem with her champion choosing terrain-appropriate companions? It just makes perfect sense to me that the Druid always has the ability to have an appropriate companion regardless of terrain. Especially useful in cases where you're going from areas where something Large and stompy like a T-Rex makes sense to an area where the poor dino would neither fit nor be happy like a cave or a city.

I agree, I do not see a problem with this at all.

I can imagine a druid calling upon aid of an animal when she needs it and dismissing it when she does not require it's services, setting it free once more. I can imagine a druid bonding with several animals depending on where her travels take her, it would be cool if she could call upon 'White Fang' ther faithful friend / wolf companion when traveling through the forest, dismissing it when her travels takes her to the plains, calling upon a wild stallion to take her across the plains swiftly, perhaps dismissing it for an eagle when she gets unto mountainous terrain.

I do not see the dismissal of an animal companion as cruel or disrespectful and think it is even flavorful, allowing for subpar combat choices.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
brassbaboon wrote:
Aldin wrote:
Druid companions can be dismissed at will and replaced at no cost within 24 hours with ANY terrain appropriate alternative. Yesterday a tiger, tomorrow a combat trained mount, next week a T-Rex...

I knew this and have even contemplated using it once or twice in the past four years (I'm pretty sure this was true in 3.5 as well).

However, as a GM, if a druid's player kept dismissing animal companions for convenience, I would probably his his/her deity or Mother Nature herself visit them and have the druid explain, in character, why doing that was not a callous and selfish action.

I might be convinced otherwise, but I would at least have them explain it to their source of power.

Today we are adventuring in Africa and I got a lion companion, who knows how to survive here and will be comfortable. However, the other half of the MacGuffin is in Alaska, so I will leave my friend here and pick up a nice polar bear there. Among many other reasons, some of which are perfect depending on how you play your druid.


6 people marked this as FAQ candidate. 16 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Another one is that Lesser Restoration has a three round casting time.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Great thread...just added to my lists.


DGRM44 wrote:
Great thread...just added to my lists.

No s~#*. Dot.

Andoran

15 people marked this as FAQ candidate. Staff response: no reply required. 22 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Card Game, Companion, Modules, Pawns, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Anything and everything that improves attack rolls improves CMB checks. Inspire courage, flanking, charges, bless, Weapon Focus (if the CM in question can be performed with the weapon), everything. Moreover, anything that is subtracted (and a whole bunch of things that are added) to AC impact CMD. For instance, a 1st level barbarian's CMD does not change when she rages, because the +2 Str modifier is exactly cancelled by the -2 AC penalty from the rage.


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Aldin wrote:
Druid companions can be dismissed at will and replaced at no cost within 24 hours with ANY terrain appropriate alternative. Yesterday a tiger, tomorrow a combat trained mount, next week a T-Rex...

And when they do so, they get a creature that knows relatively few tricks (only the bonuses).

Items for the list:
1) Handle animal gets complicated.
2) Druids have to use move actions to "push" a creature to perform a trick it doesn't know.

Shadow Lodge

Dotting. This thread rocks.

Cheliax

5 people marked this as a favorite.
Cheapy wrote:
Another one is that Lesser Restoration has a three round casting time.

WHAT?!!!!

Oh, Crap.


11 people marked this as FAQ candidate. 4 people marked this as a favorite.

if a creature has immunity to cold/fire it automatically has vulnerability to the opposite. though I think this is going to be errattad apparently its so obscure last time it was brought up two of the developers did not know ot existed.


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Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber

Well, don't know if anyone else had this happen, but none of the experienced D&D 3.5 players in my last Pathfinder game (myself, the GM and three others) had any idea about this:

You can score critical hits on Undead and Construct creatures now!! I didn't discover this until I saw it randomly mentioned on these boards. I looked it up in the Bestiary and was like, "well damn! It's true!" Our GM for the game was making characters use magic weapon crystals from the Magic Item Compendium to be able to crit undead.


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A simple one that I see all the time: the paladin's doubling of his smite damage bonus versus undead, evil outsiders and evil dragons only applies to his first successful attack on that target. Subsequent attacks with an active smite against the same target use the standard damage bonus (+ paladin level).


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
pluvia33 wrote:

Well, don't know if anyone else had this happen, but none of the experienced D&D 3.5 players in my last Pathfinder game (myself, the GM and three others) had any idea about this:

You can score critical hits on Undead and Construct creatures now!! I didn't discover this until I saw it randomly mentioned on these boards. I looked it up in the Bestiary and was like, "well damn! It's true!" Our GM for the game was making characters use magic weapon crystals from the Magic Item Compendium to be able to crit undead.

Rogues can also sneak attack those too. Possibly even elementals, but I am not 100% on that.


Cheapy wrote:
pluvia33 wrote:

Well, don't know if anyone else had this happen, but none of the experienced D&D 3.5 players in my last Pathfinder game (myself, the GM and three others) had any idea about this:

You can score critical hits on Undead and Construct creatures now!! I didn't discover this until I saw it randomly mentioned on these boards. I looked it up in the Bestiary and was like, "well damn! It's true!" Our GM for the game was making characters use magic weapon crystals from the Magic Item Compendium to be able to crit undead.

Rogues can also sneak attack those too. Possibly even elementals, but I am not 100% on that.

Not elementals, unfortunately. They are immune to critical hits, flanking, and precision based damage such as sneak attack.


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Elementals are immune to flanking?

Qadira

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+1000 XP to the OP for starting this thread. Tell your GM I said it's ok...

Andoran

3 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Card Game, Companion, Modules, Pawns, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Cartigan wrote:
Elementals are immune to flanking?

Yessir. "Not subject to critical hits or flanking."

Shadow Lodge

7 people marked this as a favorite.

Enlarge person's casting time is 1 round.


Shisumo wrote:
Cartigan wrote:
Elementals are immune to flanking?
Yessir. "Not subject to critical hits or flanking."

I keep forgetting those weird ones..


We just got done discussing in another thread that WBL, by RAW, applies to PCs and that crafting items has no impact on the WBL restriction on total assets.

Grand Lodge

1 person marked this as a favorite.

Magic Item creation no longer uses xp as a cost.

Trapfinding now grants a bonus equal to half your rogue
level (minimum +1) on Perception skill checks to find traps
and all Disable Device skill checks.


6 people marked this as a favorite.

You lose your Dexterity bonus to your AC while running unless you have the Run feat.
Dimensional anchor does not require a saving throw, only spell resistance.

Grand Lodge

50 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Roleplaying Game, Tales Subscriber

That you can actually create a viable character without a 20 in your prime stat.


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You can do precision damage multiple times a round, as long as the conditions are met.


LazarX wrote:
That you can actually create a viable character without a 20 in your prime stat.

That's crazy talk :p My 3.5 PH and my Core rulebook for Pathfinder clearly agree, 20 or nothing! You need to read the errata for both books ;)


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You can use your one standard action in the surprise round to charge.

You can coup de grace a creature with total consealment or invisable with two full round actions


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That not all Sorcerers inherited their powers.

Andoran

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Pathfinder Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Card Game, Companion, Modules, Pawns, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Tagion wrote:
You can use your one standard action in the surprise round to charge.

...though if you do so, you can only go half as far as normal.


Tagion wrote:

You can use your one standard action in the surprise round to charge.

You can coup de grace a creature with total consealment or invisable with two full round actions

Can you tell me where the reference is for the Charge during a surprise round? I don't remember seeing it under Charge.


Cheapy wrote:
Another one is that Lesser Restoration has a three round casting time.
Varthanna wrote:
Enlarge person's casting time is 1 round.

Both of these were true in 3.5e and are not Pathfinder changes. Likewise the soft cover for missile weapons (which I believe the other poster was talking about improved precise shot rather than just precise shot when he said the group of feats).

Pathfinder has changed a good deal of things.

Evards and Dispel magic only having a single roll rather than multiple ones would be up there for me. Likewise what applies to your CMD.

-James

Cheliax

I was pleasantly shocked to see that a Ring of Three Wishes now costs 120K instead of 90K.


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This isn't unique to PF, but I'm surprised how many people never remember that all parties begin combat flat-footed until they act. I try to keep a good grip on this, because I hate getting the drop on PCs with a high Stealth monster and having them use their full freakin' ACs against my attack rolls.


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-Anvil- wrote:
Tagion wrote:

You can use your one standard action in the surprise round to charge.

You can coup de grace a creature with total consealment or invisable with two full round actions

Can you tell me where the reference is for the Charge during a surprise round? I don't remember seeing it under Charge.

http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/combat.html

charge has a little 4 by it. If you go to the bottom it says

4: May be taken as a standard action if you are limited to taking only a single action in a round

Shadow Lodge

james maissen wrote:


Both of these were true in 3.5e and are not Pathfinder changes. Likewise the soft cover for missile weapons (which I believe the other poster was talking about improved precise shot rather than just precise shot when he said the group of feats).

I dont think the OP was speaking about just changes from 3.5 to PF, just rules people forget/dont know in general.

Edit: on that note, however. Force Cage. Yeesh.


5 people marked this as a favorite.

Interesting responses on the animal companion thing.

I suppose there's nothing in the RAW about how a druid should treat an animal companion, so I can see an argument for trading out companions at will.

But I wonder how many druid players would role play it that way.

I said I had contemplated doing an AC swap when our campaign moved from a temperate forest area into a more desolate mountainous area, and I knew from the description of the campaign we were in that it was going to be a long quest. In the end I decided that the "special bond" between my druid and my animal companion was such that neither of them wanted to separate.

I base this on the role playing decision that an animal companion is not a tool that the druid uses, but is an actual "companion" that shares an emotional attachment with the druid, sort of like a person and a beloved pet, but magnified beyond even that bond, and so I attempt to play my druid as if she truly has such a bond with her animal companion.

But that's a role playing thing, not a mechanics thing. I can see how a druid could be role played differently and could be more of a "spread the wealth" sort of druid who believes that bonding with multiple companions over time is an important part of being a druid.

In fact that's making me think a bit about my own role playing approach. My druid is currently without a companion, having lost her third companion in battle recently and deciding as penance to not take a new companion for a while. Perhaps her reaction to this will be to approach the animal companion experience differently and decide that she should experience a wide range of companions WITHOUT killing them off.

Food for thought.

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