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What are some things about the Pathfinder rules that you think most people do not know?


Pathfinder RPG General Discussion

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Liberty's Edge

kitmehsu wrote:
The oracles curse progresses even if you multiclass, just at half it's normal rate for non-oracle levels.

Can someone provide a link to a thread that indicates that this is subject to wide misunderstanding? If not, I'm gonna put this on a list of candidate questions rather than on the main list.


Howie23 wrote:
kitmehsu wrote:
The oracles curse progresses even if you multiclass, just at half it's normal rate for non-oracle levels.
Can someone provide a link to a thread that indicates that this is subject to wide misunderstanding? If not, I'm gonna put this on a list of candidate questions rather than on the main list.

It's an short half sentence in the Oracle description. Any misunderstanding from it is most likely just people not reading that sentence.


You don't have AC against a swarm... they just do damage to you if it ends its movement on top of you.

So, technically, Dodge doesn't work on swarms! :)

Dark Archive

2 people marked this as FAQ candidate.
Ravingdork wrote:
Demon9ne wrote:
Run is speed x3, or speed x4 unencumbered, and is not necessarily taken in a straight line. ~ p.180
This one is incorrect I'm afraid. Running still requires a straight line.

Good catch. It's worth noting that there's movement rules on p.180 and p.188. p.180 states that 3x speed is in medium or heavy armor, and p.188 states only heavy armor. Is this errata'ed? I'd assume it's only heavy armor.

Liberty's Edge

Mauril wrote:
45ur4 wrote:
Howie23 wrote:
45ur4 wrote:
Acrobatics use for jumping now hasn't limit distances for jumps by size. The only limit is still not to exceed your maximum movement for the round.
This is incorrect. SRD had no limit on size, nor does current edition. Also, in SRD, you could exceed maximum movement, but had next action (in same turn or next) had to finish the jump. A result, in both editions, it is not possible to jump up and attack a creature otherwise out of reach.

Sorry, I mean vertical reach. Pathfinder has no maximum vertical reach by creature size. SRD has it, it's the third table here

Quote:
Obviously, the difficulty of reaching a given height varies according to the size of the character or creature. The maximum vertical reach (height the creature can reach without jumping) for an average creature of a given size is shown on the table below. (As a Medium creature, a typical human can reach 8 feet without jumping.)

My understanding of Pathfinder RAW has always been that creatures exist in 3D, taking up a cube equal to their size. That is, small and medium creatures exist (for game purposes) in a 5x5x5 cube. Each also has a 5-foot reach, allowing them to reach into all adjacent squares without movement, which includes reaching vertically.

A large creature exists in a 10x10x10 cube and is able to reach 10 feet beyond that in any direction, while a tiny creature exists in a 2.5x2.5x2.5 cube and cannot reach anything outside the 5x5x5 cube it is currently positioned in.

So, both your 2 foot tall halfling and your 7 foot tall half-orc can reach the 10-foot high shelf just the same. Both would need to make the same jump check to reach something at 11 feet (since it is 1 foot outside the reach of both creatures).

On the topic of vertical reach and space occupied, I'm requesting peer review on the following summary. I've used a bit of editorial license and am looking for some confirmation. I am proposing:

"While PF does not include a specific table regarding vertical reach for determining the height required for a character to reach an item at a particular height, this does not change that such a distance does exist. In combat, characters of different height may occupy identically sized cubes in space for determining targeting and threatened spaces. This is an abstraction that does not impact the difference between the ability of a Small character and a Medium character to reach an item at a given height above the floor."

It's a bit wordy. I'm like that. Anyone wanna take a shot at both the concept and the wording?

Dark Archive

Cartigan wrote:
I think it was already brought up that unless a creature can understand you, you can't direct it to do any more than attack your enemies - which it does automatically. And since templated creatures no longer get an automatic 3 Int, you can't really get the VAST MAJORITY of the Summon Monster list to do anything useful.

If this is correct, then I guess the case is as follows?:

The GM chooses a summoned creature's targets unless the creature has 3+ Intelligence, allowing it to be instructed otherwise by the PC.


Demon9ne wrote:
Cartigan wrote:
I think it was already brought up that unless a creature can understand you, you can't direct it to do any more than attack your enemies - which it does automatically. And since templated creatures no longer get an automatic 3 Int, you can't really get the VAST MAJORITY of the Summon Monster list to do anything useful.

If this is correct, then I guess the case is as follows?:

The GM chooses a summoned creature's targets unless the creature has 3+ Intelligence, allowing it to be instructed otherwise by the PC.

Bad idea. I once played a game where the Druid basically didn't have an animal companion because the GM made it run away when we found roughly ANYTHING not normal. Summoned Creatures should attack the closest PC enemy they are summoned near.

Liberty's Edge

mdt wrote:

By RAW :

A) Centaurs do not qualify for the Mounted Combat feat tree, not even Trample. :)

B) Centaurs do not use Large Weapons. (Same from 3.5, but most people forget it).

I'm gonna leave these out. A is true in a limited sense, B is true for PF, but false for SRD. In either case, the mounted combat thing tends to enflame passions and a lot of the interest in centaur specifics in SRD days tended to be due to the inclusion of centaurs in LG. The humanoid focus of PF also tends to push this to the back burner.

If I've mistaken the interest level and relevancy, I'll include it.

Dark Archive

Cartigan wrote:
Summoned Creatures should attack the closest PC enemy they are summoned near.

Then?:

A summoned creature targets the nearest enemy of the summoner unless it possesses 3+ Intelligence, allowing it to be instructed otherwise by the summoner.

If anyone can elaborate on this, or post official rules, please do so.

My experience with this:

- My summoner casts Summon Swarm near a pc-enemy brawl.
- I move the swarm (after it arrives) to 4 contiguous enemy-occupied squares, and I'm told by the GM that I've played the swarm with too much intelligence.
- The DM moves the swarm into a block in the "brawl area", damaging my target, and also other targets, including friendlies, who take automatic damage in the swarm's area.
- The other players give me the why-couldn't-you-have-just-played-a-min-maxed-evoker-look.


1 person marked this as FAQ candidate.
Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Maps, Pawns, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Howie23 wrote:
mdt wrote:

By RAW :

A) Centaurs do not qualify for the Mounted Combat feat tree, not even Trample. :)

B) Centaurs do not use Large Weapons. (Same from 3.5, but most people forget it).

I'm gonna leave these out. A is true in a limited sense, B is true for PF, but false for SRD. In either case, the mounted combat thing tends to enflame passions and a lot of the interest in centaur specifics in SRD days tended to be due to the inclusion of centaurs in LG. The humanoid focus of PF also tends to push this to the back burner.

If I've mistaken the interest level and relevancy, I'll include it.

I've seen these subjects come up time and time again. Please include them, but with clarified wording. For example:

A) Centaurs do not count as being their own mount for the purposes of qualifying for the Mounted Combat line of feats.

B) Centaurs, despite being Large, are no better at wielding large-sized weapons than a Medium humanoid is.


Demon9ne wrote:
Cartigan wrote:
Summoned Creatures should attack the closest PC enemy they are summoned near.

Then?:

A summoned creature targets the nearest enemy of the summoner unless it possesses 3+ Intelligence, allowing it to be instructed otherwise by the summoner.

If anyone can elaborate on this, or post official rules, please do so.

What are you guys saying?

If a summoner cannot communicate other orders to his/her summon then they attack the nearest enemy.

Now in PF the summon might be still an animal (albeit a fiendish or celestial one) and that communication might need to be via handle animal or speak with animals (etc). That summon might be otherwise in which the appropriate language, etc would need to be used.

All that's changed is the fiendish & celestial templates (well also removing magical beasts from the summon monster list) and the ripples on that. No need to convolute it as you seem intent upon doing here.

-James


Pathfinder Maps, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Ravingdork wrote:

I've seen these subjects come up time and time again. Please include them, but with clarified wording. For example:

A) Centaurs do not count as being their own mount for the purposes of qualifying for the Mounted Combat line of feats.

B) Centaurs, despite being Large, are no better at wielding large-sized weapons than a Medium humanoid is.

I don't care how it's listed, but it does come up. The whole mount thing also comes up for the eidelons, not taking the feats either (mount evolutioned eidelons).

Liberty's Edge

66 people marked this as a favorite.

Frequently Unknown Rules (through post 570)
Frequently unknown rules
including summary from: Things you might have missed
FAQs and other Reference Pages:
Pathfinder Core Rulebook FAQ
Pathfinder Bestiary FAQ
Pathfinder Advanced Player’s Guide FAQ

This is a list compiled by the users of http://paizo.com/paizo/messageboards. The contents are those items identified as rules that are often unknown or forgotten, whether these were rules new to Pathfinder, rules that had changed from D&D or SRD 3.5 to Pathfinder, or which have not changed, but are frequently unknown, missed or forgotten. This list avoids taking a position on subjects that are highly debated and irresolvable due to rules conflicts or ambiguity. On the other hand, items that come up frequently, but are easily answerable by a direct reading of the rules, are included, as are both positions if the distinction is easy to explain. It also does not attempt to comment on every possible change. In particular, for Spells and Feats, only those that are extremely common or have wide-ranging impact are included.

The list is ordered by the type of change and then in by the order of the Pathfinder Core Rulebook chapters. Items that fall in multiple areas often appear in both. This list is an ongoing project and is unlikely to ever be complete. If you see something missing, add it. Changes from the last summary are shown in italics.
Change from SRD/D&D to Pathfinder (includes brand new to PF)
Races
1. Elves sleep, but are still immune to magical sleep.

Classes
1. Class Hit Dice changes in many areas. In general, HD are tied to BAB progression.
2. Barbarians rage x rounds/day instead of x times/day
3. Bardic performances no longer based on Perform skill (other than Countersong and Distraction) and the bard can do other things while performing without interrupting a performance, such as cast spells. In SRD/3.5, a verbal performance would be interrupted by spellcasting.
4. Bardic Knowledge is changed. Bards get bonus to knowledge checks and can use untrained.
5. Clerics don’t get heavy armor proficiency, get proficiency with deities favored weapon, and need a feat to turn undead.
6. Fighters can retrain bonus feats.
7. Monk flurry of blows different.
8. Paladin double of smite against some creatures is on first attack only. Note, this is an errata that did not appear in early editions of the Core Rulebook.
9. Caster level for ranger and paladins is class level –3 with a minimum of 1. In SRD, these classes had caster level of class level/2, minimum of 2.
10. Ranger favored enemy bonus applies to attack rolls as well as damage.
11. Cantrips and orisons are at-will
12. Uncanny Dodge changed: character with uncanny dodge is not flat-footed.
13. Wizard specialists can now take spells from their opposed schools, but such spells cost two slots to prepare. All wizards, whether specialist or not, gain abilities at levels based upon their specialty.
14. Wizards can opt to have a bonded object instead of a familiar. A bonded object provides various benefits for use and penalties if unavailable.

Skills
1. Concentration is no longer a skill. New mechanic makes it tougher for multi-classed characters.
2. Stealth/Perception changed in multiple ways from multiple skill set in SRD. The details are complex and outside the scope of this document.
3. Alchemical items no longer require CL1 for some items.
4. Blind creatures use Acrobatics check to move faster than half speed else prone. Cannot run or charge.
5. Animals do not gain armor proficiency via any form of trick training. The animal type description text regarding trained for war leaves the discussion as well. Armor proficiency for animals is obtained through feats.
6. Acrobatics is now used for jumping. Acrobatics is a Dex skill, whereas Jump was a Strength based skill. The speed penalty for speed below 20-feet is reduced to –4 per 10 feet less than 30. The running start needed to require lower DC is reduced from 20 feet distance to 10 feet. Reducing the damage from a jump/fall down can only be accomplished if the jump is deliberate; in SRD, one could tumble to reduce damage from an unintentional descent.
7. Diplomacy checks are modified by the target’s Charisma modifier.

Feats and Traits
1. Many Shot and Rapid Shot can now be used together.
2. Dodge applies to all opponents, not just one specified opponent.
3. Improved Trip and Improved Disarm split into a feat tree (Improved and Greater)
4. Grapple works differently. Some highlights: grapplers no longer share space. Ranged attacks into a grapple no longer risk hitting the wrong target. Grappled creatures threaten surrounding squares and can attack into them (at –2 to hit). Effects on AC and sneak attack are debated (see below). Effectively, while changed, grapple is still problematic.
5. Power Attack, Cleave, Greater Cleave, and Combat Expertise all different.
6. Track is no longer a feat
7. Far Shot halves range penalty instead of increasing range.
8. Mounted Combat now uses immediate action rather than 1/round language.
9. Animals do not gain armor proficiency via any form of trick training. The animal type description text regarding trained for war leaves the discussion as well. Armor proficiency for animals is obtained through feats.
10. Vital Strike feat is a standard action. It cannot be used as part of a full attack, charge, or spring attack.
11. Empower spell only applies to the rolled portion of the effect. (Note, this appeared with clarifying non OGC text in the PHB that it applied to the full numeric portion, or at least, that portion unrelated to caster level. That text did not appear in SRD.)
12. The trait Heirloom Weapon does not meet the prerequisites for feats that require proficiency in a weapon type. The trait provides proficiency in a single weapon, whereas the feat requires proficiency in all examples of the weapon. This is not a universal opinion.

Equipment
1. Spiked chain no longer has reach.
2. Weapon enhancement bonus (the plus portion, not the cost equivalent) overcomes various DR at different DR than just magic. Specifics: +3 negates cold iron/silver, +4 negates adamantine, +5 negates alignment based DR. This ability is not granted for greater magic weapon.
3. Mithral weapons count as silver for overcoming DR/silver.
4. Mithral armor now requires proficiency in original type of armor, not just resulting armor.
5. Damaging Magic Weapons: An attacker cannot damage a magic weapon that has an enhancement bonus unless his weapon has at least as high an enhancement bonus as the weapon struck.
6. Armor proficiency is not required to wear armor, merely to avoid some penalties to attack rolls and some checks. Some armor has no penalty even if non proficient. Some has no arcane check penalty as well. See masterwork and mithral for examples.
7. Worn clothing counts toward encumbrance.

Additional Rules
(none)

Combat
1. Anything that changes attack rolls changes CMB, including weapon feats if using weapon for the special attack. Likewise, anything that changes AC impacts CMD.
2. Sneak attack and critical damage applies to many additional creatures, including undead and constructs.
3. Characters can draw a weapon during a charge, but can only charge a single move distance and must have a BAB of +1. If charging a single move distance due to being restricted to a single action (surprise, slow, etc.), charging character must have Quickdraw to draw a weapon in the same round as a charge.
4. Stabilization and death changed.
5. Blind creatures use Acrobatics check to move faster than half speed else go prone; they cannot run or charge.
6. Initiative is rolled prior to the start of surprise round for all combatants. In SRD/D&D, surprised characters do not roll initiative until after the surprise round is over.
7. If damage is less due to strength penalties such that damage would be less than 1, the damage in PF is 1 point of non-lethal. In SRD/D&D, the damage is reduced to 1 point of lethal.
8. Sunder can be used as a tactic that is not self-defeating for loot-loving PCs. Minor repair magic, such as mending and make whole, are more useful as a result.
9. Damaging Magic Weapons: An attacker cannot damage a magic weapon that has an enhancement bonus unless his weapon has at least as high an enhancement bonus as the weapon struck.
10. Per the PF FAQ ruling you gain the benefit of a defending weapon only in those turns when it is used. For a shield, this would require using it for a shield bash.
11. There is no size limit to an opponent you attempt to grapple. In SRD, you can initiate a grapple with a creature up to two size categories larger than you are.
12. Removed (included in Combat 1)

Magic
1. Concentration is no longer a skill. New mechanic makes it tougher for multi-classed characters.
2. Polymorph school spells have changed. See polymorph spells and specific spells, such as alter self.
3. Empower spell only applies to the rolled portion of the effect. (Note, this appeared with clarifying non OGC text in the PHB that it applied to the full numeric portion, or at least, that portion unrelated to caster level. That text did not appear in SRD.)

Spells
1. Many save-or-die and save-or-suck spells have re-saves or more limited effects.
2. Cantrips and orisons are at-will
3. Gate spell changed from 2x level to 1x CL in terms of HD called/controlled.
4. Detect (alignment) spells work differently. They do not detect alignment auras at low hit dice, and can register based upon intentions rather than actual alignment or deeds.
5. Harm spell explicitly cannot reduce hit points below 1, whether the save is made or not.
6. Celestial and Fiendish templates, such as used with summon spells, do not advance Intelligence to 3. This reduces communication options related to language.
7. Summoned creatures cannot use spells or spell-like abilities that require expensive material components. Expensive material components are typically those that would need to be tracked with a cost of 1gp or more.
8. Protection from evil grants a re-save at +2 and does not automatically suppress ongoing effects.

Prestige Classes, Gamemastering, Environment, NPCs
(none)

Magic Items
1. Magic item creation vastly changed. Note that there are various disagreements about exactly how it works, particularly with reference to prerequisites; those discussions are outside the scope of this document.
2. Magic item creation no longer uses XP.
3. Market Value of Magic Items (Language Pending)
4. Indentification of magic items changed significantly (see detect magic, identify, Spellcraft, and Perception)
5. Scrolls take a standard action, but longer if the spell contained has a longer casting time. (This may have been added in D&D add-on material as well, such as Rules Compendium).
6. A character can make a magic item without being a spell caster through the Master Crafsman feat.
7. Damaging Magic Weapons: An attacker cannot damage a magic weapon that has an enhancement bonus unless his weapon has at least as high an enhancement bonus as the weapon struck.

Appendices and Monster Rules
1. Poison rules incorporated into affliction and changed significantly; poison tougher all around.
2. Natural attacks changed. Creature can have multiple primary attacks.
3. Regeneration is simpler. See universal monster rule for regeneration.
4. Templates changed in many ways.
5. Incorporeal creatures take 50% of damage of each effective attacks instead of only being affected for the full amount of effective attacks 50% of the time.
6. Ability damage results in a penalty for every full –2 damage. The result of such penalties are limited in scope depending on the ability. Contrast with ability drain.
7. Ability drain is required before losing benefits from skill points and ability prerequisites required to qualify for feats and prestige classes. Contrast with ability damage.
8. Animals do not gain armor proficiency via any form of trick training. The animal type description text regarding trained for war leaves the discussion as well. Armor proficiency for animals is obtained through feats.
9. Celestial and Fiendish templates, such as used with summon spells, do not advance Intelligence to 3. This reduces communication options related to language.
10. Grab can be used against a target the same size or smaller than the grabber. In SRD, the target must be strictly smaller than the target. (This is published in Bestiary 2, and incorporated by FAQ into Bestiary. See Bestiary FAQ.)
11. Monsters advanced through PC class levels gain bonus to stats. Adjust stats by +4, +4, +2, +2, +0, -2, distributed in an appropriate way. This substitutes for SRD granting elite array for the same purpose.
12. When advancing monsters, the addition of NPC classes or non-key classes (known as non-associated classes in SRD), adds ½ CR for each level until reaching creature’s original CR rather than HD.
13. Many monster type traits and features have changed. Some monsters are no longer of the same type as in SRD.
14. Centaurs use weapons sized one size category smaller than their size.

Always like this, but frequently misplayed or not known previously

Races
(none)

Classes
1. Inspire courage is free action to continue once having started.
2. Animal companions can be dismissed at will and replaced with 24 hours; note that new companion requires training other than bonus feats.
3. Animal companions gain feats as they gain hit dice.
4. Animals do not have to be proficient in armor to wear barding, but may have penalties depending on what barding they wear.
5. Sneak attack and other precision damage applies to every attack in a round, not just once per round.
6. Familiars and animal companions can be the target of spells that they can not normally be the target of, such as enlarge person.

Skills
1. Rules for tying up a character are in Grapple section.
2. Auto-success on a 20 and Auto Fail on a 1 are not universal to all rolls. They apply only when called out. Typical examples are attack rolls and saving throws. The following are not subject to auto-success/failure: Skill checks, caster level checks, concentration checks.
3. Take 10 on skill check can be used when not in immediate danger or distracted. Do not confuse with Take 20’s restriction from use if there is a negative consequence.
4. Take 20 cannot be used if there is a negative result for failure. Do not over-generalize to apply this to Take 10.
5. If failing on Use Magic Device with a natural 1, you cannot retry for 24 hours.

Feats
1. Ride-by Attack is still a mess.
2. Removed.
3. Metamagic applied to spontaneous casting (bards, sorcerers, etc.) and to class-based spontaneous casting (cleric’s spontaneous cure or druid’s spontaneous summon) take longer to cast. Such spells take a full round action (different than 1 round casting time) to cast if originally a standard action; spells with a casting time originally longer than a standard action take an additional full round action. A sorcerer’s empowered magic missile would take a full round action to cast, and would come into effect at the end of his turn; in contrast, a wizard’s enlarge person (with no metamagic), has a 1 round casting time and comes into effect at the start of the wizard’s next turn.
4. Quicken Spell applies to spells with a casting time of a standard action or a full round action. Some view this as also applying to a casting time of 1 round, such as enlarge person. Expect table variance.

Equipment
1. Reach weapons can be used to attack opponents 10 feet away, but cannot be used against adjacent foes. Various feats and class abilities can make it possible to do so.
2. Animals do not have to be proficient in armor to wear barding, but may have penalties depending on what barding they wear.
3. Carrying too much gear can slow you down and might incur additional AC max Dex limits.
4. Character’s start play with an inexpensive suit of clothing in addition to starting gold.

Additional Rules
1. Darkvision is not spoiled by other light sources. (Different in comparison to some pre 3e versions of D&D)
2. Rolling a natural 1 on a saving throw can damage a randomly determined worn magic item.
3. Carrying too much gear can slow you down and might incur additional AC max Dex limits.

Combat
1. Ranged attacks suffer from cover from objects, enemies, or allies. Allies often overlooked. Applies to reach weapons, ranged touch attacks, and melee touch attacks that have reach as well. (Last portion of this is subject to review).
2. Readying an action is a standard action. One can move first, and then ready. The readied action itself can be a standard, move, free, or swift action. (Note: could not explicitly be swift in SRD 3.5; swift was not in the SRD.) Can include 5’ step as part of the readied action if no other movement in either the readied action or prior to the readied action during regular turn.
3. Characters who use the run action lose Dex bonus to AC, and thus are subject to sneak attack.
4. Spells can crit if they have an attack roll.
5. Characters and creatures can charge a single move distance as a standard action if limited to a single action, such as during a surprise round. This doesn’t mean you can opt to only charge as a standard action if you have a full round of actions available.
6. Coup de grace can be performed against a creature with total concealment, such as invisibility, by using two full round actions.
7. Rules for tying up a character are in Grapple section.
8. Withdraw action can be double move. AoO only prevented from first square left. Withrdaw can be made during a round in which a character is limited to a single move, but may only be a single move distance. Withdraw can be in any direction.
9. You cannot take AoOs when flat-footed (usually in surprise round or before you have acted in first round) unless you have Combat Reflexes or a similar ability.
10. Ranged touch attacks (rays) and touch attacks can be the object of weapon improvement feats such as Weapon Focus, Weapon Specialization, Improved Critical, etc., and also benefit from feats such as Weapon Finesse.
11. A character can take only one immediate or swift action per round. Note: Swift and Immediate actions not part of the SRD, but commonly in use. (When does it reset language; language needed)
12. Reach weapons can be used to attack opponents 10 feet away, but cannot be used against adjacent foes. Various feats and class abilities can make it possible to do so.
13. Initiative is a Dexterity check, which is influenced by rules that modify ability checks.
14. When using manufactured and natural weaponry, all natural weapon attacks become secondary.
15. Difficult terrain and poor visibility hamper movement. You cannot take a 5-foot step nor charge in hampered movement.
16. The delay and ready special actions may be taken in initiative. When initiative starts is generally at the determination of the GM/DM. The ability to delay or ready an action outside of initiative should not be assumed and is subject to the individual table or playing group culture.
17. A character may take a 5-foot-step between attacks, or either before or after the attacks.
18. Multiple attacks of opportunity can be made by an attacker with Combat Reflexes against a single target, but only one may be made if incurred for moving out of threatened squares. A target may be the subject of AoOs, even for movement, but each attacker that threatens the target.
19. Running must be in a straight line. This should not be confused to require running along the grid lines.
20. A character using the total defense action may not make AoOs.

Magic
1. Spells can crit if they have an attack roll.
2. Removed.
3. Mutliple magical effcts that increase size do not stack.
4. Wizards learning new spells require time and a Spellcraft check. If the Spellcraft check fails, it cannot be tried again until the wizard gains a rank in Spellcraft. The wizard may Take 10 on the Spellcraft check.

Spells
1. Lesser restoration is a three round casting time. Usually, this means it isn’t used during combat. Potion of lesser restoration is good for in combat, though.
2. Enlarge person has a 1 round casting time.
3. Dimensional anchor has no saving throw, just spell resistance.
4. Harm (moved to item 5 of things that have changed -> spells)
5. Summon spells have 1 round casting times, even from wands.
6. Grease can be used to disarm.
7. A number of spell effects (remove disease, remove curse, knock, etc.) require a caster level check to be successful instead of automatically; this is not universal to all similar spells
8. Summoned creatures attack enemies without additional communication. Communication is required for other tasks or more specific instructions. Different groups may handle specific instructions differently.
9. A spellcaster has no control over a summoned swarm. Such a swarm attacks the nearest creature, whether friendly to the spellcaster or no.

Prestige Classes, Gamemastering, Environment, NPCs
1. What constitutes an authoritative source for rules questions and clarifications varies from play group to play group.

Magic Items
1. Weapons and armor must have +1 enhancement prior to gaining additional enchantments.
2. Summon spells have 1 round casting times, even from wands.
3. Using a wand with a casting time longer than a standard action takes that long to activate. A wand of summon monster I takes 1 round and a wand of lesser restoration takes 3 rounds. But, you have to know to look under the activation section at the start of the wand section to know this.
4. A character can use a wand with a spell on his class list, even if he can’t cast spells yet. For example, a 3rd level paladin can use a wand of cure light wounds.
5. Spells with range of personal cannot be made into potions.
6. A weapon can have multiple special abilities. It is possible to have a command structure that allows them to be turned on/off in different ways, at the option of the weapon’s creator. Note: This is supported by the D&D 3.5 final FAQ, which is not recognized by all players as an authoritative source. Some specific readings of the relevant core rules text may result in play groups having a different interpretation.

Appendices and Monster Rules
1. Immunity to cold/fire gives vulnerability to opposite. (Developers have indicated future change for this)
2. Elementals are immune to flanking and critical hits.
3. Creatures can often overcome the DR that is needed to hit them (magic, epic, etc.)
4. Fear effects stack or escalate; characters can become more fearful.
5. When using manufactured and natural weaponry, all natural weapon attacks become secondary.
6. Centaurs do not count as being their own mount for the purposes of qualifying for Mounted Combat and related feats.

It’s the same between SRD and PF, but PF makes it confused

1. Reach weapons for small and medium creatures have a reach of 10 feet. Despite a diagram that says otherwise, they can still attack two squares on a diagonal.
2. Double weapons are two-handed weapons with special properties regarding two-handed fighting. If a double weapon is used in one hand, only one end can be used. The missing text that clarifies things is that using a two-handed weapon with one hand only happens if it is sized smaller than you or you have an additional rules resource to permit it.

It’s the same between SRD and PF, but PF makes it clear

1. Wizards with prestige classes only get 2 free spells when gaining a level of wizard, not when gaining a level of the prestige class.
2. Ranged touch attacks provoke an attack of opportunity, even if the spell that causes the attacks was cast defensively. (In 3.5, this was subject to variance.)

Pending Resolution or More Complex than Can Be Dealt With Here
1. Quickened Spell on spells with casting time of 1 round. (see discussion in rules section of forum, here. A line is included that there is table variance on this matter above.
2. What is the interaction between grapple, pin, AC, Dex Bonus to AC, sneak attack? Contradictory rules (particularly when inclusive of condition table footnotes) are contradictory or ambiguous. discussion thread.
3. Defending Weapons resolved by FAQ
4. The arcane topic of dragon skin armor.
5. The role of Wealth by Level and interaction with crafting, consumables, wizard spell book, etc.

Liberty's Edge

New summary above has changes in italics. Centaur stuff included. If anyone sees any problems, call 'em out.

Edit: would there be benefit to putting the sections in spoiler tags? It would reduce the size and allow opening select tags, but will be harder to copy/paste.


2 people marked this as a favorite.

1. A grappled creature still threatens adjacent squares and therefore can count as a flanker of the grappler.

2. If you grapple a creature that is not adjacent to you then you move it to an open square. If there is no open square the grapple fails.

3. If you are grappling a creature, succeed on your maintain grapple check and elect to do damage you can use unarmed or light weapon damage and choose it to be lethal or nonlethal without penalty.

4. If you are grappling a creature and pin it then YOU also become flatfooted. Its nice to grapple the BBEG but make sure you've gotten rid of the rogueish minions first.

5. The penalty for firing a ranged attack into melee does not apply if the target is at least ten feet from the friendly creature.

6. A prone creature cannot crawl five feet without triggering an attack of opportunity.

7. Using acrobatics to move through the threatened area of multiple creatures imposes a -2 penalty for every creature past the first.

8. A flat footed opponent doesn't get attacks of opportunity (so obvious but so commonly got wrong).

9. A creature with the frightened condition must flee as best as it can. A creature with the panicked condition flees along a random path.

10. If you miss a trip maneouvre by more than 10 you fall prone unless you are using a weapon with the trip feature in which case you can drop it instead.

11. A splash weapon is still a ranged weapon and has the same penalties such as firing into melee.

12. When missing with a splash weapon the splash goes a number of squared equal to the range interval. Far shot reduces the penalty for firing at range not the range interval and doesn't shorten the miss distance.

13. You can ready a swift or free action (still takes a standard action).

14. Charging gives you a +2 on a bull rush maneavour but not others.

15. You can't move through a square with a prone enemy creature, it must be helpless.

16. A shuriken can be used in addition to a crossbow while prone (not a thrown dagger though).

17. You can't withdraw from combat if your blinded.

18. After taking the first attack in a full-attack sequence you can stop and take a move action instead (unless youve used a five foot step).

19. Total defense is a standard action. You can use it and then move its its not prudent to withdraw.

20. You can't cast spells requiring a somantic component while grappled even with a concentration check. You have to have any required material components in hand.

21. You have to make a concentration check to cast a spell while riding a mount that is moving.


Dan E wrote:

5. The penalty for firing a ranged attack into melee does not apply if the target is at least ten feet from the friendly creature.

20. You can't cast spells requiring a somantic component while grappled even with a concentration check. You have to have any required material components in hand.

Can you provide the source for these? Not contending, just didn't know these and curious what piece of text I've missed or skimmed.


Rules in the Ranged section of Combat wrote:

If you shoot or throw a ranged weapon at a target engaged in melee with a friendly character, you take a –4 penalty on your attack roll. Two characters are engaged in melee if they are enemies of each other and either threatens the other. (An unconscious or otherwise immobilized character is not considered engaged unless he is actually being attacked.)

If your target (or the part of your target you're aiming at, if it's a big target) is at least 10 feet away from the nearest friendly character, you can avoid the –4 penalty, even if the creature you're aiming at is engaged in melee with a friendly character.

The first part of 20 is in the cast a spell heading of the combat part while. The second part is in the casting spells heading of the magic part.


james maissen wrote:
Demon9ne wrote:
Cartigan wrote:
Summoned Creatures should attack the closest PC enemy they are summoned near.

Then?:

A summoned creature targets the nearest enemy of the summoner unless it possesses 3+ Intelligence, allowing it to be instructed otherwise by the summoner.

If anyone can elaborate on this, or post official rules, please do so.

What are you guys saying?

If a summoner cannot communicate other orders to his/her summon then they attack the nearest enemy.

Now in PF the summon might be still an animal (albeit a fiendish or celestial one) and that communication might need to be via handle animal or speak with animals (etc). That summon might be otherwise in which the appropriate language, etc would need to be used.

All that's changed is the fiendish & celestial templates (well also removing magical beasts from the summon monster list) and the ripples on that. No need to convolute it as you seem intent upon doing here.

-James

I don't get the summon stuff either. The spell description seems clear to me:

"It attacks your opponents to the best of its ability. If you can communicate with the creature, you can direct it not to attack, to attack particular enemies, or to perform other actions. "

So a creature is summoned that the summoner can't communicate with for various reasons: it attacks any opponent of the caster starting with the closest one to it's current location. It keeps doing this until the spell expires or it dies. If their is nothing to attack it just sits there.

If the summoner can communicate with it then "you can direct it not to attack, to attack particular enemies, or to perform other actions." Thats it. I don't see where intelligence has a big impact unless you ask it to solve a puzzle or something.


Adam Ormond wrote:
Dan E wrote:

5. The penalty for firing a ranged attack into melee does not apply if the target is at least ten feet from the friendly creature.

20. You can't cast spells requiring a somantic component while grappled even with a concentration check. You have to have any required material components in hand.
Can you provide the source for these? Not contending, just didn't know these and curious what piece of text I've missed or skimmed.

Number 5 from the 3.5 SRD:

"If your target (or the part of your target you’re aiming at, if it’s a big target) is at least 10 feet away from the nearest friendly character, you can avoid the -4 penalty, even if the creature you’re aiming at is engaged in melee with a friendly character. "


cibet44 wrote:


If the summoner can communicate with it then "you can direct it not to attack, to attack particular enemies, or to perform other actions." Thats it. I don't see where intelligence has a big impact unless you ask it to solve a puzzle or something.

Animal intelligence creatures can't speak. That makes the loss of the bump up to Int 3 intelligence (the ability to at least probably understand speech) and the removal of magical animals from the lists a serious blow to SM as an utility spell at most levels.


Cartigan wrote:
cibet44 wrote:


If the summoner can communicate with it then "you can direct it not to attack, to attack particular enemies, or to perform other actions." Thats it. I don't see where intelligence has a big impact unless you ask it to solve a puzzle or something.
Animal intelligence creatures can't speak. That makes the loss of the bump up to Int 3 intelligence (the ability to at least probably understand speech) and the removal of magical animals from the lists a serious blow to SM as an utility spell at most levels.

No, but there is Speak with Animals, and Wild Empathy (not usable in combat), and Handle Animal.


Adam Ormond wrote:
Cartigan wrote:
cibet44 wrote:


If the summoner can communicate with it then "you can direct it not to attack, to attack particular enemies, or to perform other actions." Thats it. I don't see where intelligence has a big impact unless you ask it to solve a puzzle or something.
Animal intelligence creatures can't speak. That makes the loss of the bump up to Int 3 intelligence (the ability to at least probably understand speech) and the removal of magical animals from the lists a serious blow to SM as an utility spell at most levels.
No, but there is Speak with Animals, and Wild Empathy (not usable in combat), and Handle Animal.

Yes, Arcane Casters totally have access to all that.


Cartigan wrote:
Adam Ormond wrote:


No, but there is Speak with Animals, and Wild Empathy (not usable in combat), and Handle Animal.
Yes, Arcane Casters totally have access to all that.

It's not that hard to get it when you need it.

A +1 (net) UMD score, a wand and an ioun stone if you must.

But yeah, it was a hit to them.

Perhaps it would have worked out for a pure summoning base class to come into existence, pity we got pokemon master instead.

-James


You still don't get experience for beating things that are too easy. Not a change I think, but I reckon some people still miss it.

PRD wrote:
Each monster, trap, and obstacle awards a set amount of XP, as determined by its CR, regardless of the level of the party in relation to the challenge, although you should never bother awarding XP for challenges that have a CR of 10 or more lower than the APL.


Draeglos wrote:

You still don't get experience for beating things that are too easy. Not a change I think, but I reckon some people still miss it.

PRD wrote:
Each monster, trap, and obstacle awards a set amount of XP, as determined by its CR, regardless of the level of the party in relation to the challenge, although you should never bother awarding XP for challenges that have a CR of 10 or more lower than the APL.

That is not true anymore. That is only in 3.5. In Pathfinder even if you are level 398394093 and you beat a CR 1/3 creature you get XP. The rule to not get XP for trivial encounters no longer exist.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion, Modules, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

You realize he just quoted that out of Gamemastering/ Awarding Experience in the PRD, right?


Joana wrote:
You realize he just quoted that out of Gamemastering/ Awarding Experience in the PRD, right?

Thats correct. And on page 399 of the core rulebook, right hand column if anyone needs to look it up.


I always read that as a good suggestion to a GM as opposed to a rule. After reading it again I see it is more like a rule then a "you should do this."


Couldn't tell if this was posted here yet, but I just discovered this one today and was pleasantly surprised. Here goes...

Did you know that power attack works on off-hand attacks? Its true! (I know what you 3.5-ers are thinking, cause I was shocked too.)

Don't have the page, but here is the exact wording of it as taken directly from the PRD right here at Paizo. (I marked the sentence that shows what I'm talkin about with italics and larger font.)

Power Attack from Paizo's PRD wrote:


You can make exceptionally deadly melee attacks by sacrificing accuracy for strength.

Prerequisites: Str 13, base attack bonus +1.

Benefit: You can choose to take a –1 penalty on all melee attack rolls and combat maneuver checks to gain a +2 bonus on all melee damage rolls. This bonus to damage is increased by half (+50%) if you are making an attack with a two-handed weapon, a one handed weapon using two hands, or a primary natural weapon that adds 1-1/2 times your Strength modifier on damage rolls. This bonus to damage is halved (–50%) if you are making an attack with an off-hand weapon or secondary natural weapon. When your base attack bonus reaches +4, and every 4 points thereafter, the penalty increases by –1 and the bonus to damage increases by +2. You must choose to use this feat before making an attack roll, and its effects last until your next turn. The bonus damage does not apply to touch attacks or effects that do not deal hit point damage.

In other words, two-weapon weilders can actually get almost as much benefit from power attack as PCs weilding their weapon two-handed. Totally need to point this out to my GM at some point.

Shadow Lodge

Dot, dot, dot...


Supplement to #4 in the Magic Section (or After You've Copied the Spell Into Your Book. . .)

From the Spellcraft skill:

If you fail to learn a spell from a spellbook or scroll, you must wait at least 1 week before you can try again.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Dan E wrote:
14. Charging gives you a +2 on a bull rush maneavour but not others.

This isn't true. Bull rushes are called out in the description, but any combat maneuver you can perform "in place of a melee attack" can be performed in a charge, and gains the +2 bonus from the charge as a result. This means trips, disarms and sunders, basically.

The reason why bull rushes are called out specifically is because they are not normally able to be performed in place of a melee attack - an attack of opportunity, for instance, cannot be a bull rush. Note that overruns, which can be performed during a charge, are not specifically called out and also cannot be performed as place of a melee attack, and thus do not get the +2 bonus; in fact, they can only be performed during a charge because they have a rules exception specifically allowing it. Grapples and all of the new maneuvers in the Advanced Player's Guide cannot be performed during a charge at all.


Demon9ne wrote:


Additionally, every GM should have a house rules for the circumstances during which a Reflex save cannot be made, due to a lack of official rules.

What you're saying is clear to me.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
bishop083 wrote:

Couldn't tell if this was posted here yet, but I just discovered this one today and was pleasantly surprised. Here goes...

Did you know that power attack works on off-hand attacks? Its true! (I know what you 3.5-ers are thinking, cause I was shocked too.)

Don't have the page, but here is the exact wording of it as taken directly from the PRD right here at Paizo. (I marked the sentence that shows what I'm talkin about with italics and larger font.)

Power Attack from Paizo's PRD wrote:


You can make exceptionally deadly melee attacks by sacrificing accuracy for strength.

Prerequisites: Str 13, base attack bonus +1.

Benefit: You can choose to take a –1 penalty on all melee attack rolls and combat maneuver checks to gain a +2 bonus on all melee damage rolls. This bonus to damage is increased by half (+50%) if you are making an attack with a two-handed weapon, a one handed weapon using two hands, or a primary natural weapon that adds 1-1/2 times your Strength modifier on damage rolls. This bonus to damage is halved (–50%) if you are making an attack with an off-hand weapon or secondary natural weapon. When your base attack bonus reaches +4, and every 4 points thereafter, the penalty increases by –1 and the bonus to damage increases by +2. You must choose to use this feat before making an attack roll, and its effects last until your next turn. The bonus damage does not apply to touch attacks or effects that do not deal hit point damage.

In other words, two-weapon weilders can actually get almost as much benefit from power attack as PCs weilding their weapon two-handed. Totally need to point this out to my GM at some point.

Note that: differently from 3.5 light weapon benefit from power attack.

Dark Archive

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Axl wrote:
Demon9ne wrote:


Additionally, every GM should have a house rules for the circumstances during which a Reflex save cannot be made, due to a lack of official rules.

What you're saying is clear to me.

RAW you ALWAYS get a save. Reflex save can be dodging, or just dumb luck.

"Hey, that bird flew in the way" kinda thing


Name Violation wrote:
Axl wrote:
Demon9ne wrote:


Additionally, every GM should have a house rules for the circumstances during which a Reflex save cannot be made, due to a lack of official rules.

What you're saying is clear to me.

RAW you ALWAYS get a save. Reflex save can be dodging, or just dumb luck.

"Hey, that bird flew in the way" kinda thing

Yes. Even if paralyzed, unconscious or otherwise helpless, albeit with a Dex modifier of -5.


Cheapy wrote:
Howie23 wrote:
kitmehsu wrote:
The oracles curse progresses even if you multiclass, just at half it's normal rate for non-oracle levels.
Can someone provide a link to a thread that indicates that this is subject to wide misunderstanding? If not, I'm gonna put this on a list of candidate questions rather than on the main list.
It's an short half sentence in the Oracle description. Any misunderstanding from it is most likely just people not reading that sentence.

Bingo.

d20pfsrd.com wrote:

Oracle’s Curse (Ex)

Each oracle is cursed, but this curse comes with a benefit as well as a hindrance. This choice is made at 1st level, and once made, it cannot be changed. The oracle’s curse cannot be removed or dispelled without the aid of a deity. An oracle’s curse is based on her oracle level plus one for every two levels or Hit Dice other than oracle. Each oracle must choose one of the following curses.

Dark Archive

Howie23 wrote:
9. A spellcaster has no control over a summoned swarm. Such a swarm attacks the nearest creature, whether friendly to the spellcaster or no.

Howie, as far as summoning goes, I think better wording would be:

A spellcaster has no control over summoned creatures unless able to communicate with them. A summoned creature with 3 or more Intelligence can understand simple spoken commands. Summoned swarms that occupy an area greater than their target may damage nearby allies.

Here's the rules relevant to the last sentence:

PFSRD wrote:
Swarm Attack: creatures with the swarm subtype don’t make standard melee attacks. Instead, they deal automatic damage to any creature whose space they occupy at the end of their move, with no attack roll needed.


Demon9ne wrote:
Howie23 wrote:
9. A spellcaster has no control over a summoned swarm. Such a swarm attacks the nearest creature, whether friendly to the spellcaster or no.

Howie, as far as summoning goes, I think better wording would be:

A spellcaster has no control over summoned creatures unless able to communicate with them. A summoned creature with 3 or more Intelligence can understand simple spoken commands. Summoned swarms that occupy an area greater than their target may damage nearby allies.

Here's the rules relevant to the last sentence:

PFSRD wrote:
Swarm Attack: creatures with the swarm subtype don’t make standard melee attacks. Instead, they deal automatic damage to any creature whose space they occupy at the end of their move, with no attack roll needed.

The exception to this rule Vomit Swarm The Swarm attacks all other creatures within its area. The swarm begins adjacent to you, but if no living creatures are within its area, it moves in one direction of your choosing at its normal speed.

You can move the swarm or change the swarm's direction by spending a standard action to concentrate on the swarm, otherwise it continues moving in its current direction.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Quote:


2. Weapon enhancement bonus (the plus portion, not the cost equivalent) overcomes various DR at different DR than just magic. Specifics: +3 negates cold iron/silver, +4 negates adamantine, +5 negates alignment based DR. This ability is not granted for greater magic weapon.

This is one of the most amazing facts I've gotten out of this thread. Never noticed it until now.

Liberty's Edge

Demon9ne wrote:
Howie23 wrote:
9. A spellcaster has no control over a summoned swarm. Such a swarm attacks the nearest creature, whether friendly to the spellcaster or no.

Howie, as far as summoning goes, I think better wording would be:

A spellcaster has no control over summoned creatures unless able to communicate with them. A summoned creature with 3 or more Intelligence can understand simple spoken commands. Summoned swarms that occupy an area greater than their target may damage nearby allies.

Here's the rules relevant to the last sentence:

PFSRD wrote:
Swarm Attack: creatures with the swarm subtype don’t make standard melee attacks. Instead, they deal automatic damage to any creature whose space they occupy at the end of their move, with no attack roll needed.

Hi Demon. The rules that are in here now related to summoned stuff are:

8. Summoned creatures attack enemies without additional communication. Communication is required for other tasks or more specific instructions. Different groups may handle specific instructions differently.
9. A spellcaster has no control over a summoned swarm. Such a swarm attacks the nearest creature, whether friendly to the spellcaster or no.

and

9. Celestial and Fiendish templates, such as used with summon spells, do not advance Intelligence to 3. This reduces communication options related to language.

I think these cover the material while leaving room for individual groups to cover their own interpretation of how to communicate with creatures. The existing text regarding summoned swarms was in reply to your post earlier. I've seen multiple players not realize that they don't control their swarms, which is called out in summon swarm. The language you've provided is not universal to how everyone handles intelligence, and language is still a possible barrier. I think the passages as they stand are more inclusive of elements that are outside the scope of the rules (in role-play) and the scope of the list. Thanks though, and keep up the contributions.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Better change it to:

Howie23 wrote:


9. A spellcaster has no control over a swarm called with the Summon swarm spell. Such a swarm attacks the nearest creature, whether friendly to the spellcaster or no.

Other spells that summon swarm allow (or not, depending on the spell) to control of the swarm(s). Cfr. Creeping Doom, Vomit swarm

Shadow Lodge

Excellent thread. Dotting this, also, I have taken Howie's excellent summation and put it into both pdf/docx format. I will share them here for anyone who is interested, hopefully google docs cooperates. If you see the doc, Howie gets full credit :)

Here is the link. Let me know if its not working!

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Often forgotten rule:

"Staves use the wielder's ability score and relevant feats to set the DC for saves against their spells. Unlike with other sorts of magic items, the wielder can use his caster level when activating the power of a staff if it's higher than the caster level of the staff."

I did know that the staves use your relevant ability score and caster level, but didn't know that they use your feats too.

A thing that is a bit unclear is what happen when a cleric use an arcane staff or vice versa.
He use his wisdom (relevant ability score for his class) or his intelligence/charisma (relevant ability scores for the arcane classes)?

I would default to intelligence for arcane staves and wisdom for divine staves, but the rules, AFAIK, don't say anything.


Diego Rossi wrote:

Often forgotten rule:

"Staves use the wielder's ability score and relevant feats to set the DC for saves against their spells. Unlike with other sorts of magic items, the wielder can use his caster level when activating the power of a staff if it's higher than the caster level of the staff."

I did know that the staves use your relevant ability score and caster level, but didn't know that they use your feats too.

A thing that is a bit unclear is what happen when a cleric use an arcane staff or vice versa.
He use his wisdom (relevant ability score for his class) or his intelligence/charisma (relevant ability scores for the arcane classes)?

I would default to intelligence for arcane staves and wisdom for divine staves, but the rules, AFAIK, don't say anything.

I don't think that staves have those kind of types (like scrolls do).

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
leo1925 wrote:
Diego Rossi wrote:

Often forgotten rule:

"Staves use the wielder's ability score and relevant feats to set the DC for saves against their spells. Unlike with other sorts of magic items, the wielder can use his caster level when activating the power of a staff if it's higher than the caster level of the staff."

I did know that the staves use your relevant ability score and caster level, but didn't know that they use your feats too.

A thing that is a bit unclear is what happen when a cleric use an arcane staff or vice versa.
He use his wisdom (relevant ability score for his class) or his intelligence/charisma (relevant ability scores for the arcane classes)?

I would default to intelligence for arcane staves and wisdom for divine staves, but the rules, AFAIK, don't say anything.

I don't think that staves have those kind of types (like scrolls do).

In the description? no

From the spells within them, most of them have a arcane/divine bent.
What would you do if a staff contain some spell that can be cast by arcane and divine caster and spells that can be cast only by arcan or divine casters?

Allow people from the "wrong" class them to use only some of the staff powers?
Probably the right solution, but worth adding to the other thread by Hovie23.


Diego Rossi wrote:
leo1925 wrote:
Diego Rossi wrote:

Often forgotten rule:

"Staves use the wielder's ability score and relevant feats to set the DC for saves against their spells. Unlike with other sorts of magic items, the wielder can use his caster level when activating the power of a staff if it's higher than the caster level of the staff."

I did know that the staves use your relevant ability score and caster level, but didn't know that they use your feats too.

A thing that is a bit unclear is what happen when a cleric use an arcane staff or vice versa.
He use his wisdom (relevant ability score for his class) or his intelligence/charisma (relevant ability scores for the arcane classes)?

I would default to intelligence for arcane staves and wisdom for divine staves, but the rules, AFAIK, don't say anything.

I don't think that staves have those kind of types (like scrolls do).

In the description? no

From the spells within them, most of them have a arcane/divine bent.
What would you do if a staff contain some spell that can be cast by arcane and divine caster and spells that can be cast only by arcan or divine casters?

Allow people from the "wrong" class them to use only some of the staff powers?
Probably the right solution, but forth adding to the other thread by Hovie23.

That's exactly right. Staves are just big wands with multiple spells in them. If you can cast the spell (i.e. it is on your class's spell list) then you can use the spell from the staff/wand.


meatrace wrote:
Diego Rossi wrote:
leo1925 wrote:
Diego Rossi wrote:

Often forgotten rule:

"Staves use the wielder's ability score and relevant feats to set the DC for saves against their spells. Unlike with other sorts of magic items, the wielder can use his caster level when activating the power of a staff if it's higher than the caster level of the staff."

I did know that the staves use your relevant ability score and caster level, but didn't know that they use your feats too.

A thing that is a bit unclear is what happen when a cleric use an arcane staff or vice versa.
He use his wisdom (relevant ability score for his class) or his intelligence/charisma (relevant ability scores for the arcane classes)?

I would default to intelligence for arcane staves and wisdom for divine staves, but the rules, AFAIK, don't say anything.

I don't think that staves have those kind of types (like scrolls do).

In the description? no

From the spells within them, most of them have a arcane/divine bent.
What would you do if a staff contain some spell that can be cast by arcane and divine caster and spells that can be cast only by arcan or divine casters?

Allow people from the "wrong" class them to use only some of the staff powers?
Probably the right solution, but forth adding to the other thread by Hovie23.

That's exactly right. Staves are just big wands with multiple spells in them. If you can cast the spell (i.e. it is on your class's spell list) then you can use the spell from the staff/wand.

@meatrace

hahahahaha big wands!!!!!! hahahahaha
Hilarious and correct.


Demon9ne wrote:


Howie, as far as summoning goes, I think better wording would be:

A spellcaster has no control over summoned creatures unless able to communicate with them. A summoned creature with 3 or more Intelligence can understand simple spoken commands.

This wording would be incorrect.

A caster with speak with animals active summons an INT 1 fiendish animal. They can communicate with them (via that former spell) and thus can direct them.

Likewise your wording makes no mention of needing to speak whichever languages that these INT 3+ creatures might speak. Summoning a small earth elemental for example doesn't mean that it understands spoken commands in common, but rather would in terran.

I think Howie's got a good wording on it already, though I would specify that it's not 'summoning swarms' but rather the spell 'summon swarm' as spells like Creeping doom allow the caster to control the movement, while insect plague forbids the summoned swarms movement.

James

Liberty's Edge

Next iteration changes the control over conjured swarms to be specific to the spell summon swarm in light of creeping death, vomit swarm, etc.

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