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DC Comics Reboot


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The new Catwoman look seems to be the one from 'Arkham City'..I'm wondering if they have done the same for Harley


Kevin Mack wrote:
Well seen the new Harley Quinn and all I can say is no just no.

pics?


Freehold DM wrote:
Kevin Mack wrote:
Well seen the new Harley Quinn and all I can say is no just no.
pics?

For one thing, she looks nothing like a harlequin


I don't know what is worst, the wtf hair, the minicape like thingy or the bullet belts and the guns. Probably that she looks like a psycho killer, more jokerish than she should. I always thought she was crazy but with a sweet and even girlish side. She wasn't psychotic, just crazily in love with the wrong guy.


VM mercenario wrote:
I don't know what is worst, the wtf hair, the minicape like thingy or the bullet belts and the guns. Probably that she looks like a psycho killer, more jokerish than she should. I always thought she was crazy but with a sweet and even girlish side. She wasn't psychotic, just crazily in love with the wrong guy.

No, I'm pretty sure Harley's psychotic. But as you say, with a sweet and girlish side. :)


I don't think the new Harley look is bad, but definately don't think that mainstream DC Harley should look this way. If DC decided to do an "ultimate" universe I think it would work.

RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8

Well I just read that Donna Troy, Cassandra Cain, and Stephanie Brown are all not in the reboot. When you add that the Titans never existed Gar Logan's MIA too, along with Joey and Rose, I'm glad I decided to get off in September. slutty-Quinn was just another reason.

Taldor

When you start needing T...... to sell your book, I believe you take a wrong turn.

I believe I'll still give them book a look when they get compiled, but they are definitely not in my "must buy quick" list.


Matthew Morris wrote:
Well I just read that Donna Troy, Cassandra Cain, and Stephanie Brown are all not in the reboot.

FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU

What is this feeling? It... It's like one more day again... But bigger and all over the universe... Sorry, but I think I had a little stroke.

Qadira RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16

Matthew Morris wrote:
Well I just read that Donna Troy, Cassandra Cain, and Stephanie Brown are all not in the reboot. When you add that the Titans never existed Gar Logan's MIA too, along with Joey and Rose, I'm glad I decided to get off in September. slutty-Quinn was just another reason.

Matt, could you cite a source? I ask, because the current lettercol in BatGirl suggests that Stephanie will be around in some guise or another.

Andoran

Chris Mortika wrote:
Matthew Morris wrote:
Well I just read that Donna Troy, Cassandra Cain, and Stephanie Brown are all not in the reboot. When you add that the Titans never existed Gar Logan's MIA too, along with Joey and Rose, I'm glad I decided to get off in September. slutty-Quinn was just another reason.
Matt, could you cite a source? I ask, because the current lettercol in BatGirl suggests that Stephanie will be around in some guise or another.

Agreed. I was under the impression she was gonna be the Batwoman, since Barb was taking back Batgirl.

Also, does anyone know of someplace to go to get all the updated info in one place without searching through dozens of articles? Someplace that has it all compiled?

RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8

Ok, here's the link.

So I kind of misspoke, the quote from the article is:
"You won’t be seeing Donna Troy yet in the new DCU, nor the Stephanie and Cassandra Batgirls. They haven’t been killed off though, just benched."

So to be precise with "my" characters being removed form publication or unrecgnizable (Garth is still dead, Roy and Kory have apparently been rebooted, Raven, Joey and Gar MIA, Hank and Dawn under Liefield's pens) and the next gen even worse off (Apparently Steph doesn't rate as a 'real' Robin, Rose, Tori, Cass mia, Cassie and Kon-El being rebooted into unrecognizability) I just don't see any reason to read. Vic alone isn't enough for me to read Justice League.


Matthew Morris wrote:

Ok, here's the link.

So I kind of misspoke, the quote from the article is:
"You won’t be seeing Donna Troy yet in the new DCU, nor the Stephanie and Cassandra Batgirls. They haven’t been killed off though, just benched."

So to be precise with "my" characters being removed form publication or unrecgnizable (Garth is still dead, Roy and Kory have apparently been rebooted, Raven, Joey and Gar MIA, Hank and Dawn under Liefield's pens) and the next gen even worse off (Apparently Steph doesn't rate as a 'real' Robin, Rose, Tori, Cass mia, Cassie and Kon-El being rebooted into unrecognizability) I just don't see any reason to read. Vic alone isn't enough for me to read Justice League.

You know, while I'm still not thrilled with all of this, this coming out and reading through many of the entries comforts my comic book loving soul:

DC Adventures Heroes and Villains Volume One


And there's another question..how does this reboot affect the licences,like M&M or DCU online?


DM Wellard wrote:
And there's another question..how does this reboot affect the licences,like M&M or DCU online?

Looking through the PDF, all of the characters seem to be based on the current version of the characters. Of course, that makes sense since most of the work on this was done last year.

From what it sounds like, most of the actual writing of Volume Two and probably a good chunk of the DCU book are done as well, and the GR guys have said that the reboot should have minimal impact on the RPG.

Honestly, it wouldn't make much sense to have a DCU book that references the "new" universe if all of the characters are written assuming the "old" universe.

Plus the RPG was originally to commemorate the 75th anniversary. Last year.

If someone from SOE could promise me the DCU presented in DCUO would stay pretty much as it is, I'd probably return to the fold despite my frustration with the game just previous to launch (I have a friend that's been trying to convince me that the game is improved over my beta testing experience).

And apparently Tim Drake, as Robin, is appearing in the Arkham City video game when it comes out, and his Red Robin costume will be another skin usable for the character.


Thank you Knight ErrantJr

I've been considering buying M&M just for the DC stuff.(I already have DC Heroes and DC Universe so why not go for a troika)

One more question are the DC books written for 3rd edition or 2nd?

Qadira

DeathQuaker wrote:
Freehold DM wrote:
Kevin Mack wrote:
Well seen the new Harley Quinn and all I can say is no just no.
pics?
For one thing, she looks nothing like a harlequin

It's Marvel's Domino.


For anyone that's curious, Cassandra, Stephanie, and Barbara all get the Batgirl treatment in the Batgirl write up. While a lot of comments on the M&M boards mentioned other versions of various characters getting only a "sidebar," that sidebar in most cases still includes a separate stat block. For example, Wally gets his own separate stat block in the Flash entry, even though the main entry is on Barry.


DeathQuaker wrote:


No, I'm pretty sure Harley's psychotic. But as you say, with a sweet and girlish side. :)

Harley has always been kind of disconnected from the full depth of depravity that Joker is capable of. She's "bad," but in a weird, "innocent" way.

This Harley doesn't really look like she has any kind of "innocent" manner about her.

The first Arkham Asylum costume for Harley (the nurse costume) still has a degree of whimsy to it, even if its not traditional. And when you look at her, you know its Harley.

While I'm not a fan of the Arkham City outfit, you can still look at the facepaint, impression of a domino mask, and pigtails, and figure out who the character is.

If I didn't know that was suppose to be Harley, I'd have no clue.

And why the Hell did they need to change King Shark from a great white to a hammerhead? In a perfect world, an anthropomorphic shark is an anthropomorphic shark, but it just seems like a change for changes sake, as I don't see one species as better for a walking shark villain than another.


Agreed on the new Harley..looks more like Mr J decided to have a sex change

Andoran

Which begs the question why not do what Marvel did. Create a alternative universe like the Ultimates one and keep the regular universe untouched. That way if someone likes one yet hates the other you do not lose a fan.


memorax wrote:

Which begs the question why not do what Marvel did. Create a alternative universe like the Ultimates one and keep the regular universe untouched. That way if someone likes one yet hates the other you do not lose a fan.

Especially odd since they have been hyping their "Earth One" books for quite a while now, and apparently Superman: Earth One did fairly well (even though I wasn't a fan of the book myself).


DM Wellard wrote:
Agreed on the new Harley..looks more like Mr J decided to have a sex change

You just had to go and give me some mental scarring, didn't you?


As much as I hate the new Harley Quinn costume, I hate the whole Suicide Squad thing even more. I was a big fan of the old Suicide Squad, and I really love the current series Secret Six. It pains me greatly to see that they're ending a comic I really like to make this POS.
And after Justice League: Generation Lost, I was really excited to see the return of Justice League International. Now, not so much.

Taldor

hmmm... never collected DC.... i might give it a shot now

does that mean they'll be rehashing all the origin stories though? I want to say, read Supes or Batman 1, but not necessarily "re-live" all the origin stories all over again


DM Wellard wrote:
Agreed on the new Harley..looks more like Mr J decided to have a sex change

One of the few fair criticisms I've seen. Thanks for the link, DQ, and I agree with you Ivan. I do wonder what an "Ultimate" DC line would look like.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion Subscriber

One thing that bothers me is how confusing it all seems, they claim it's a reboot, yet there will apparently be ties to what came before:

Bruce decides/realizes he is the one true Batman, meaning those who were Bats while he was dead actually were.

I read for Dick "fresh off being Batman, Dick Grayson takes back up the mantle of Nightwing"

Also pretty sure I saw something similar with GL..

Part of me is interested in some of this, such as Mister Terrific getting his own book, yet why make Superman/Clark single?? Didn't DC pay even a tiny amount of attention to the hate that One More Day got?? And sure there's always been a bunch of Batman books, but a lot of them focused on Bruce.

Now there's a bunch of different books with a bunch of different characters. Just seems overly excessive.

Qadira

I'm all for rebooting/retconning/reimagining characters if it results in good stories and more sales, but I don't see this as anything more than a huge mess.

I can't believe that someone actually ok'd many of these choices. At first I thought that the reboot was a bit of misdirection and was actually part of DC's retro-active "event" going on this summer. They're doing issues of some characters that tell stories in the style of the 70's & 80's by the creative teams from those eras. So it made sense.

The reboot looks like 1993, so it had to be part of that event, right? Alas it appears that it is not so. This is an actual reboot/relauch that is full of all kinds of crazy.

First, in order to bring in new, younger readers lets get rid of the up and coming young talent that we have under exclusive contracts and bring back older talent. Cause everyone knows that someone in their 50's knows what people in their 20's want to read a lot better than someone closer to that age. That's just common sense.

Also lets get rid of all of our most talented writers and artists and then give multiple books to some of our least talented and most undependable. They haven't been able to sell books in the past so if we get rid of everyone that is more talented than them, then they will be best sellers now. It's simple logic!

Since cheesy quasi-military "uniforms", armor, knee-pads, collars and guns were all the rage in the 90's, the kids now are gonna love 'em. It'll be popular like them thar Power Rangers I heard so much about (15 years go).

All the kiddies love them vampires now don't they? So lets do a vampire book about a long forgotten character than no one has ever cared about, and even fewer have heard of and let's put it in the initial line up.

Of course this means we are going to have to cancel all of our fan favorite books that have loyal fans and sell fairly well(for DC books). Then we'll replace them with books about characters that have never sold well, that no one is asking for or that no one has ever heard of. That will bring in new, younger readers for sure.

We also need to take out all of the confusing continuity for our more well known characters that impedes new readership and replace it with more confusing retcons. Unless of course it is Batman or Green Lantern. For them we are just going to claim that everything really happened, but it all happened in the last 5 years.

So in the span of 5 years Bruce takes up the mantle of Batman, takes Dick as a ward who becomes Robin, grows up, becomes Nightwing, becomes Batman and then Nightwing again. Then Bruce takes Jason Todd as his ward/new Robin, who then dies, grows up and comes back from the dead as an adult Red Hood. Who is then replaced by Tim Drake, whose dad is murdered, who then becomes Bruce's new ward/Robin, who is replaced by Stephanie Brown, and then replaces her, then becomes Red Robing and is replaced by Bruces 10-14 year old son Damian, who wasn't even conceived until after Bruce became Batman (less than 5 years ago in DCnU time).

Yeah, cramming all of this into a 5 year span (the time frame DC states since Superman, the first superhero, premiered) is not confusing at all. It makes total sense.

Man DC is full of marketing geniuses!

Of course I've heard (rumors) that Stephanie may never have existed, so she was never Spoiler and never Tim's girlfriend, Robin or Batgirl. Then Tim was never the actual Robin and didn't become active until he watched Battle of the Planets and became inspired to become Red Robin. Then he joined the Teen Titans. Barbara Gordon, according to rumors, was shot but not paralyzed by the Joker. Thus keeping the Killing Joke as part of continuity, but erasing the past 20 years of her time Oracle from continuity.

Also in that 5 year time span I can only assume that Dan Garrett and Ted Kord were both Blue Beetle and both died so that Jaime could become BB. That's a pretty short legacy, unless they are removing Ted and Dan from continuity and making Jaime the first.

There is just so much about all of this that is just so dang confusing and silly. Of course all we have to go on is what little DC releases and rumors. That's a bad mix.

I'm really hoping there is more going on here than meets the eye and that a lot of this is just to get people talking. If things are just as they seem, I can totally see this going poorly. I'm pretty confident that 50% of the announced books will be struggling or canceled by issue 12. I'm betting that is a bit optimistic on my part.

I've been a DC fan for over 30 years and I've seen them do some silly stuff, but this has even me amazed at how ridiculous it is. I'll be trying several of the books and I'll still be buying the ones I've bought for the past 30 years (Superman, JLA, Wonder Woman, etc), but I'm not feeling too confident about all of this and I'm wondering if it isn't time to start reading more Marvel, Image and Dark Horse.
Hmmm, the Gold Key characters are being published again and I hear that Valiant is getting ready to start publishing again.
Now all we need is multiple versions of chromium, holographic, foldout covers featuring Wolverine and/or Lady Death and it will be the 1990's all over again. Yeah!


Capt. D wrote:


First, in order to bring in new, younger readers lets get rid of the up and coming young talent that we have under exclusive contracts and bring back older talent. Cause everyone knows that someone in their 50's knows what people in their 20's want to read a lot better than someone closer to that age. That's just common sense.

Also lets get rid of all of our most talented writers and artists and then give multiple books to some of our least talented and most undependable. They haven't been able to sell books in the past so if we get rid of everyone that is more talented than them, then they will be best sellers now. It's simple logic!

Omg! Deja Vu! 4E is coming this summer to DC!

Qadira

Freehold DM wrote:
DM Wellard wrote:
Agreed on the new Harley..looks more like Mr J decided to have a sex change
One of the few fair criticisms I've seen. Thanks for the link, DQ, and I agree with you Ivan. I do wonder what an "Ultimate" DC line would look like.

I thought that already tried that with the "All-Stars" series of books.


Crimson Jester wrote:
Freehold DM wrote:
DM Wellard wrote:
Agreed on the new Harley..looks more like Mr J decided to have a sex change
One of the few fair criticisms I've seen. Thanks for the link, DQ, and I agree with you Ivan. I do wonder what an "Ultimate" DC line would look like.
I thought that already tried that with the "All-Stars" series of books.

I did see my beloved All Star Batman as a bit of an Ultimates title. I just wish they had done more with the book after Frank Miller went ape-poopy on it.


Crimson Jester wrote:
Freehold DM wrote:
DM Wellard wrote:
Agreed on the new Harley..looks more like Mr J decided to have a sex change
One of the few fair criticisms I've seen. Thanks for the link, DQ, and I agree with you Ivan. I do wonder what an "Ultimate" DC line would look like.
I thought that already tried that with the "All-Stars" series of books.

Don't know that you could really call 2 books, one of which was plagued with delays, a real try. Never really got the chance to take off.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Modules, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
KnightErrantJR wrote:
DC Adventures Heroes and Villains Volume One

I like how the DC Adventures: Universe book is going to be "out of date" before it sees print. ;) I'm going to pick them up as the definitive capstone of this era.

I can say, as a Flash fan, that I hate how wishy-washy DC editorial has been over the last decade.

Example: After "Infinite Crisis" Wally retires to the speed force. Bart becomes the new Flash. However they get a lame writing team and it sucks for the first 6 issues. So instead of sticking to their guns and hiring a better writing team to recover the line, they do hire a new writer. But his contract is to kill Bart in the next 6 issues. So Bart Allen, the Flash, never gets enough time to settle into the role.

So "Lightning Saga" happens, and we all know a Flash is coming back. People speculate that it might be Barry, but no. Here's Wally. Back from the future with kids. At this point I'm pissed that they made Bart the Flash just so they could kill him and return to the mostly status quo. Only Flash and children only does so-so, and Wally gets maybe a year and a half before "Final Crisis: Once More with Feeling" comes around and they bring Barry back.

I don't mind having Barry back. But if you are going to bother, wouldn't "Lightning Saga" have been a better place to do it? Leave Wally retired, bring Barry back and go from there? Oh, did I mention they brought Bart back to life because, oops, we're sorry? Did I mention I already bought like 3 "Flash #1s" in the last five years and don't really need another one?

DC: I wouldn't mind a reboot if I hadn't had 3 already. Any particular Flash would have been fine, but pick what you are going to do and stick with it for more than 6-18 months.

So I don't have hopes that the reboot will last. If it does, it could be awesome. But nothing since "Infinite Crisis" has left me feeling confident in DCs ability not to go ADD on my favorite characters.

/rant

Andoran

I heard that Superman is renouncing his American Citizenship. Well, i'm boycotting DC from now on

RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8

deinol wrote:
<much grumbling about Wally/Barry/Bart>

From the bleeding cool link I posted above:

"Many of the new 52 books will have six issue story arcs, and Dan DiDio states that if sales are bad on a title, they won’t wait very long to cancel it. He wants strong sales across the line."

So get used to more six month arcs/crashes/backpedaling.

I picked up some of the Secret Six trades today. Oh gods... Ragdoll is nuts, but now I'm lamenting that I didn't collect this book.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Martin Kauffman 530 wrote:
I heard that Superman is renouncing his American Citizenship. Well, i'm boycotting DC from now on

Come on -- you're not even trying!


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Modules, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Matthew Morris wrote:
I picked up some of the Secret Six trades today. Oh gods... Ragdoll is nuts, but now I'm lamenting that I didn't collect this book.

I'm leaning more and more towards a "wait for it in trade if it is any good" attitude. Is there any comic issue from the last 10 years that has really increased in value? Do we really think Flash #1 (the 7th time) is going to ever be worth what the old 60s comics go for?

Part of it is that we're in a different time. Print runs are bigger. People collect now more than they used to in the early days. I picked up the entire run of Impulse over a few ebay auctions not too long ago. I definitely paid less than cover price. Everything gets collected into trades now. That wasn't true even 20 years ago. The market and distribution has changed drastically since then.

I haven't followed Secret Six in a while, but I remember the initial arc was awesome. I should pick up those trades.

RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8

deinol wrote:
Matthew Morris wrote:
I picked up some of the Secret Six trades today. Oh gods... Ragdoll is nuts, but now I'm lamenting that I didn't collect this book.

I'm leaning more and more towards a "wait for it in trade if it is any good" attitude. Is there any comic issue from the last 10 years that has really increased in value? Do we really think Flash #1 (the 7th time) is going to ever be worth what the old 60s comics go for?

Part of it is that we're in a different time. Print runs are bigger. People collect now more than they used to in the early days. I picked up the entire run of Impulse over a few ebay auctions not too long ago. I definitely paid less than cover price. Everything gets collected into trades now. That wasn't true even 20 years ago. The market and distribution has changed drastically since then.

I haven't followed Secret Six in a while, but I remember the initial arc was awesome. I should pick up those trades.

Cats in the Cradle I Highly Recomment. I read Red Robin when Catman guest appeared. Niceza wrote how Tim respects/fears him, now I know why. and it's not pretty.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Matthew Morris wrote:
deinol wrote:
Matthew Morris wrote:
I picked up some of the Secret Six trades today. Oh gods... Ragdoll is nuts, but now I'm lamenting that I didn't collect this book.

I'm leaning more and more towards a "wait for it in trade if it is any good" attitude. Is there any comic issue from the last 10 years that has really increased in value? Do we really think Flash #1 (the 7th time) is going to ever be worth what the old 60s comics go for?

Part of it is that we're in a different time. Print runs are bigger. People collect now more than they used to in the early days. I picked up the entire run of Impulse over a few ebay auctions not too long ago. I definitely paid less than cover price. Everything gets collected into trades now. That wasn't true even 20 years ago. The market and distribution has changed drastically since then.

I haven't followed Secret Six in a while, but I remember the initial arc was awesome. I should pick up those trades.

Cats in the Cradle I Highly Recomment. I read Red Robin when Catman guest appeared. Niceza wrote how Tim respects/fears him, now I know why. and it's not pretty.

Wait is that the arc when they kidnap Catman's kid? Because if so? Yeah. Full of respect for Catman before that arc, but soooooo full of HOLY CRAP CATMAN IS FRICKING DANGEROUS afterwards...

RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8

ShinHakkaider wrote:
Matthew Morris wrote:
Cats in the Cradle I Highly Recomment. I read Red Robin when Catman guest appeared. Niceza wrote how Tim respects/fears him, now I know why. and it's not pretty.
Wait is that the arc when they kidnap Catman's kid? Because if so? Yeah. Full of respect for Catman before that arc, but soooooo full of HOLY CRAP CATMAN IS FRICKING DANGEROUS afterwards...

Yup. It's also interesting to see Bane and his relationship with Scandal. And Deadshot... He's such a jerk :-)


bugleyman wrote:
Martin Kauffman 530 wrote:
I heard that Superman is renouncing his American Citizenship. Well, i'm boycotting DC from now on
Come on -- you're not even trying!

Indeed, the only thing even more ridiculous than this plot hook has been the reaction to it in certain circles.


I've been mainly a Marvel guy my whole life, but I read a lot of Superman and Batman as a kid, had a long stretch of being into Green Lantern/Green Arrow, and always dug The Flash.

History would tell me that reboots are useless. Marvel has attempted similar things, both across connected titles and in particular with single characters. The result is an enormous, ridiculous mess where nobody is entirely sure what is in continuity with what, and where new writers and editors coming in decide they liked one particularly continuity over another, etc. Half the time they give up and go back to what they were doing, and the other half they leave in mainly the screwed-up stuff. Nothing ever boosts sales, as they hope.

The result of all of this was that I stopped collecting comics in general around 2002, and basically gave completely up on Marvel in my mind sometime around when I heard that Peter and Mary Jane's continuity had been completely erased from history.

I can't imagine DC will fare any better in this. Electronic is obviously the way to go, but I think it's a band aid on a continually declining situation. Comics as they are, are becoming more and more niche as influences and other forms continue to pour in from other countries and cultures. This may provide a temporary boost to... something, I don't know what. But the entire industry needs to recreate itself, not just the continuity of its characters.

I foresee, in the not-to-distant future, a world where the best of the characters belong to film, TV, games, and the online world, but where comics as they are, are (unfortunately) a thing of the past, and many existing characters go the way of the dodo.

Qadira

I believe that Superman is the only one that is getting a major reboot in this. If I remember correctly Grant Morrison was given leave to completely redo the origin and history of the character. Of course none of this was motivated by the lawsuits or DC's potential loss of any parts of the Superman mythos in the coming years. This was a completely spontaneous creative decision....yeah.

I wonder how changing Superman will change the upcoming movie?

I really don't care that they are rebooting the DCU, I'll still read DC books. There are books that I'm glad to see returning, books I'm sorry to see go and some I'm just wondering what they were thinking, but over all I'm eager to see what they're going to do.

I'd actually like to see them stick with the 52 books and just replace the books that fail. For example in a couple of months when I, Vampire, Blackhawks, Sgt. Rock, Hawk & Dove, Frankenstein and Voodoo get canceled they can just replace them with The Atom, Metal Men, Metamorpho, Captain Marvel(Shazam), Booster Gold & the Question. Then when other books fail, just replace them and so on and so on. But they should always keep the monthly books @ 52 and put a new series up the month after one is canceled.

Qadira

Bruunwald wrote:


I foresee, in the not-to-distant future, a world where the best of the characters belong to film, TV, games, and the online world, but where comics as they are, are (unfortunately) a thing of the past, and many existing characters go the way of the dodo.

I can see this happening to a degree. I think I'll be too old to care before it happens completely, but to some younger kids this is how it is now. I know kids who had never seen, much less read a comic until I showed them one. They thought Superman, Batman, Spiderman, X-men, etc, all came from cartoons, movies and video games.

I know a lot adults that used to read comics and remember them fondly but they had no idea they were still being published. This is mostly because comics disappeared from the places where people bought comics, retail stores. These people have never seen or been in a comic book shop and they don't even know where to find one.

I've collected comics for the past 30 years and until I was a teen I bought every single one from a drugstore, department store, convenience store or grocery. I was 15 before I saw my first comic book store. Even then (late 80's) they weren't that common so I still depended on the local grocery rack.

In the 90's there was a store in every strip mall and shopping center. Even small rural towns had comic shops. Then just as quickly, they were gone. Now I live in a town where the closest shops are an hour away. I have to mail order my comics because I can't buy them at the local grocery store anymore. The direct market is partially to blame for the reason that no one even knows that comics still exist. If it wasn't for bookstores selling trades and some single issues, I bet that number would be even smaller.

I don't believe we will see the end of comics for a long while. Trades, graphic novels, and digital comics will keep the characters alive and in print of some form. I even think we will still be seeing printed monthlies for at least another decade. If not longer.

People like to compare digital comics to music and ebooks, but they are a different animal. I'm cool with downloading a book to my kindle, even though I don't have a physical book to hold it is still stored in my device and I can call it up anytime I want. When I buy a song from Amazon I can put them on my mp3 player, my daughter's mp3 player or burn then to a CD. I can do pretty much what I want with them.

There are some digital comics you can buy as pdfs on sites like Drive Thru Comics, but those are mainly small press companies. Most digital comics (Marvel, DC, Dark Horse, Image) you can only read online. I want no part of that. That may be great for the casual reader, and there is nothing wrong with that, but when you are dealing with a core fanbase made of collectors that doesn't cut it.

Even if it is a digital product, most collectors want to have access to their material anywhere, anytime. Even though it may be paying for the rights to view it, you still feel like it is yours. Something that the current digital comics don't provide for most of us. So while we may buy a few more trades instead of single issues than we did a few years ago, until the digital comics are in a form we can keep, most collectors will still be at their shops on Wednesday.


deinol wrote:
Matthew Morris wrote:
I picked up some of the Secret Six trades today. Oh gods... Ragdoll is nuts, but now I'm lamenting that I didn't collect this book.

I'm leaning more and more towards a "wait for it in trade if it is any good" attitude. Is there any comic issue from the last 10 years that has really increased in value? Do we really think Flash #1 (the 7th time) is going to ever be worth what the old 60s comics go for?

Part of it is that we're in a different time. Print runs are bigger. People collect now more than they used to in the early days. I picked up the entire run of Impulse over a few ebay auctions not too long ago. I definitely paid less than cover price. Everything gets collected into trades now. That wasn't true even 20 years ago. The market and distribution has changed drastically since then.

I haven't followed Secret Six in a while, but I remember the initial arc was awesome. I should pick up those trades.

Secret Six is brilliant, and its cancellation has made me very upset. Absolutely probably my favorite book DC published. (Toss up between that and Birds of Prey really, but the new volume of BoP took awhile to get going strong)


DeathQuaker wrote:

Secret Six is brilliant, and its cancellation has made me very upset. Absolutely probably my favorite book DC published. (Toss up between that and Birds of Prey really, but the new volume of BoP took awhile to get going strong)

I'll be willing to bet good money that King Shark and Deadshot were much more entertaining in Secret Six than in the upcoming Suicide Squad. And I really wanted a new Suicide Squad book before the reboot news hit.

I just didn't want it to steal Deadshot back.

Birds of Prey took a while to get going because Gail and multiple hurdles, including rebuilding the book after it was dismantled in the previous run due to DC trying to make Barbara Batgirl again, and because Black Canary's status on JLA and with Green Arrow was in flux as well.

I don't envy her trying to pull things back together, but I was fairly sure she had her momentum back when we got the Penguin dream sequence.


Capt. D wrote:
I believe that Superman is the only one that is getting a major reboot in this. If I remember correctly Grant Morrison was given leave to completely redo the origin and history of the character. Of course none of this was motivated by the lawsuits or DC's potential loss of any parts of the Superman mythos in the coming years. This was a completely spontaneous creative decision....yeah.

It's hard telling, because DC is becoming more and more evasive about what is and isn't changing. In fact, the more people don't seem to want a reboot, the more DC is putting out disclaimers saying that maybe they oversold the whole "Brand New DCU" concept.

If the Tim/Cassie/Conner/Bart Titans are just now getting together, it's a pretty major shift in things, and even if the story is set in the past, Wonder Girl as some kind of shadowy figure and the weird mutant Witchblade girl are new, and bumps Arrowette and Secret out of the whole equation.

Johns and Lee talking about giving the Justice League a "cool" origin is another point of concern. And do they mean this Justice League, or the whole concept of the League? If it's the whole League, having Cyborg as one of the "big seven" pretty radically alters his history with his fellow Titans.

And of course there is the fact that the Red Hood and the Outlaws blurb really makes it sound like Starfire is a new arrival and Roy's history goes straight from Green Arrow's sidekick to the current book.

My fear is that we will never really get an answer as to what is or isn't the baseline, and it will shift, and if something is contradictory, we'll get new Hypertime. Which means there is no point to all of this.


KnightErrantJR wrote:

My fear is that we will never really get an answer as to what is or isn't the baseline, and it will shift, and if something is contradictory, we'll get new Hypertime. Which means there is no point to all of this.

Except maybe they can destroy the new universe Crisis style in a few years.


Spanky the Leprechaun wrote:


Except maybe they can destroy the new universe Crisis style in a few years.

Then they can Hypertime in some of the "old" Jim Lee designed characters a few years after that . . . it's like an endless cycle!


Grant Morrison is.......brainstorming......even as we speak.

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