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I'm still chuckling that in the real world, at least, Kara's pod came down right across the river from Metropolis, Illinois. I say again! Ho Ho Ho!

And Coridan - I don't essentially disagree with your argument, but the point is that they're not rebooting Tim Drake. All Bat-inuity is untouched - the timeline is shifted around, but the story remains the same, and with it the characters. Like Matthew Morris points out, the new Superboy? Sure, go for it. Reboot him completely - hell, make him asexual (he actually rather seems like he's shaping up that way, to tell the truth - that'd be awesome, now that I think about it). But Tim should stay the same because Tim is, well, staying the same.

And as for a homosexual character that people seem to love overlooking - Mik/Starman from Justice Society. Cosmically powered gay blue alien with a big rock in his chest, right there, no waiting. Does the NDCU have room for such a character? Time will tell, I suppose.


Freehold DM wrote:
does cheesecake dance

Don't get me wrong; I've got nothing against cheesecake for cheesecake's sake. But the Starfire stuff is just jarringly wrong... it almost makes me think Lobdell (and maybe Rocafort) has never seen/met an actual woman before, like they are trying to describe this mythical "woman creature" for some lame-ass cryptozoology show on Syfy.

If you pick up Red Hood, I'd be real interested on your impressions, Freehold. If you don't pick it up, I'd instead recommend the new Wonder Woman #1 that came out this week. It's not perfect and a little rushed, but it has great potential.


2 people marked this as a favorite.
Freehold DM wrote:
DM Wellard wrote:
Charles Scholz wrote:


BTW - Catwoman should have an adult content flag on the front. Do not let anyone under 18 see the last page.
This book would never have passed the old Comics Code Authority.
Agreed..definitely a wtf moment
adds Catwoman to pull list

You might want to actually see the picture in question before you decide it's worth pulling.

RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8

Ambrosia Slaad wrote:
Freehold DM wrote:
does cheesecake dance

Don't get me wrong; I've got nothing against cheesecake for cheesecake's sake. But the Starfire stuff is just jarringly wrong... it almost makes me think Lobdell (and maybe Rocafort) has never seen/met an actual woman before, like they are trying to describe this mythical "woman creature" for some lame-ass cryptozoology show on Syfy.

If you pick up Red Hood, I'd be real interested on your impressions, Freehold. If you don't pick it up, I'd instead recommend the new Wonder Woman #1 that came out this week. It's not perfect and a little rushed, but it has great potential.

What makes me sad (well one of several things) is I was one voice arguing that in a world of 'the pants rule' Starfire (and Prysm, but she's likely gone in the reboot) would be the ones having as little clothing as modesty allows. They're both solar powered after all, (Yeah, the same thing should go for Clark and Kara (and Superboy) but Prysm will actually die if she's cut off from direct light for too long) and Tamaranians were all depected in not having any taboos on nudity. The only reason Kory covered up was because she understood she was the stranger in a strange land. Kind of like J'onn adopting a more humanoid form even when he's doing the 'superhero' thing. (It's also part of the reason that Donna was able to use her for so many photo shoots. "We need to show off this two bandaids and dental floss for a photoshoot. Interested Kory?")

DCoU Kory knew and understood human culture. Terra always called her 'balloon bod'. Now she's 'balloon brain'.


I did pick up the wonder woman, actually -it looks quite good, very reminiscent of a Scion adventure. Wife was disturbed by new outfit, but liked it overall. Will look at red hood later on along with Catwoman.

Ambrosia Slaad wrote:
Freehold DM wrote:
does cheesecake dance

Don't get me wrong; I've got nothing against cheesecake for cheesecake's sake. But the Starfire stuff is just jarringly wrong... it almost makes me think Lobdell (and maybe Rocafort) has never seen/met an actual woman before, like they are trying to describe this mythical "woman creature" for some lame-ass cryptozoology show on Syfy.

If you pick up Red Hood, I'd be real interested on your impressions, Freehold. If you don't pick it up, I'd instead recommend the new Wonder Woman #1 that came out this week. It's not perfect and a little rushed, buIt it has great potential.


DeathQuaker wrote:
Freehold DM wrote:
DM Wellard wrote:
Charles Scholz wrote:


BTW - Catwoman should have an adult content flag on the front. Do not let anyone under 18 see the last page.
This book would never have passed the old Comics Code Authority.
Agreed..definitely a wtf moment
adds Catwoman to pull list
You might want to actually see the picture in question before you decide it's worth pulling.

Actually, I have to add it to the pull list because I won't see it otherwise in all likelihood -comics go that fast, at my local store.

Taldor

Im of the old school of thought that the 'New Teen Titans' were DCs answer to the 'All New, All Different' X-men. Specifically, Starfire = Storm. Both were hot, regal and liberated without being overt about it, which just added to their attraction. Now just imagine slutty Storm. You wouldnt think it was the same character or worse, some horny fanboy was writing for the book now. I wanted to pick up Red Hood and the Gang, but if thats what they did to SF.... Pass.

RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8

Aazen wrote:
Im of the old school of thought that the 'New Teen Titans' were DCs answer to the 'All New, All Different' X-men. Specifically, Starfire = Storm. Both were hot, regal and liberated without being overt about it, which just added to their attraction. Now just imagine slutty Storm. You wouldnt think it was the same character or worse, some horny fanboy was writing for the book now. I wanted to pick up Red Hood and the Gang, but if thats what they did to SF.... Pass.

Heh, ask some hard core storm fans how she's been derailed into 'trophy wife' ;-)

In the forward to my copy of The Judas Contract (bet aspects of that get retconned away) they mention this, and that Tara Markov was introduced specifically to play with people's expectations of her being 'The Titans' Kitty Pryde' So much so that even though the heel turn was clearly set up, people complained it was out of character. I always felt Beast Boy was the fans incarnate. :-)

Speaking of Terra...

One of the things I liked that they retconned preboot was the strong indication that Terra II was Terra I plucked out of time and brought back to life. It was a 'nature vs. nuture' argument to me. Given a fresh chance to live, seeing all the people she hurt with new eyes, would she revert to psycho or be a true hero? And if the later, then how would she react when she found out she was that girl?

Paizo Employee Publisher, Chief Creative Officer

After re-reading Green Lantern #1 for my New 52 Review blog project, I think the "have our cake and eat it too" non-reboot-reboot for Green Lantern, the Legion, and Batman _might_ just work, so long as they keep the background stuff to broad strokes.

You don't need to reintroduce concepts that everyone who wants to read the comic is familiar with just to get new readers. It helps, but I'm beginning to think that it may not be as necessary as I thought it was a week ago.

We'll see.

Andoran

Erik Mona wrote:

After re-reading Green Lantern #1 for my New 52 Review blog project, I think the "have our cake and eat it too" non-reboot-reboot for Green Lantern, the Legion, and Batman _might_ just work, so long as they keep the background stuff to broad strokes.

You don't need to reintroduce concepts that everyone who wants to read the comic is familiar with just to get new readers. It helps, but I'm beginning to think that it may not be as necessary as I thought it was a week ago.

We'll see.

I read your review of that one this morning, after reading the issue last night. Green Lantern is one of my favs, but this issue (Read: Geoff Johns) has pissed me off so much with this issue alone, I dont think Im going to read any more of it.

The comic itself was fine, mostly. The story was decent, if still buried in previous storyline issues. The art was ok, except in two places. As you siad in your review, the final page looks ridiculous, but I thought the one panel that is a close up of Sinestro's fist with the Green ring was horrible. It's so bad, it looks like someone cut the ring out of another page from the book and just glued it on over the finger in the larger picture.

Anyway, my initial decision was a 'we'll see', too, but Im pretty annoyed at Johns, so I think Im going to drop it just on that. What the hell kind of leadership as 'creative director' does he think he is doing by making nearly everyone else in the company reset the entire continuity of the characters theyve been working on, but not do it for GL/Bats/Legion, cause he likes a couple of those. Seriously? WTF is that? As much as I love Batman and love his continuity, Id be willing to have him reset entirely just to see GL reset to that stage as well.

Basically, what Im seeing in this is 'My work is too important to reboot, but yours isnt.'

Osirion

Paizo Superscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Comics Subscriber
jemstone wrote:

BUT! Before this reply descends into the realm of flame-bait, I'd like to say that while I agree with you, in that Kara's pod could have made it from Kansas to... not Kansas... going on a straight line through the Earth's Crust... I really don't think she could have hit Siberia without punching through the Crust and Mantle at least twice. I don't have a globe here, but I am pretty sure that she couldn't have stayed in the crust without curving up over the north pole to have gotten to Siberia. On a straight through impact, I'm not entirely sure where she'd have come through.

Sorry, I did not clarify myself better. Her ship?? could get from Kansas to Siberia by going fast enough to break through Earth's crust, travel through the mantle and almost make it out the other side's crust. Anything going into the core would hit it and stop.

Osirion

Paizo Superscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Comics Subscriber
Erik Mona wrote:

And speaking of seriously, I'm "seriously" hoping that Matthew Morris stays away from Red Hood and the Outlaws, because the portrayal of Starfire in that book is going to send him to the freakin' moon. :)

From Roy talking to her, it looks like she somehow lost all her memories from just after she escaped the Vega System onwards. How? Could her sister be behind it??

This may be interesting to find out.


Charles Scholz wrote:
jemstone wrote:

BUT! Before this reply descends into the realm of flame-bait, I'd like to say that while I agree with you, in that Kara's pod could have made it from Kansas to... not Kansas... going on a straight line through the Earth's Crust... I really don't think she could have hit Siberia without punching through the Crust and Mantle at least twice. I don't have a globe here, but I am pretty sure that she couldn't have stayed in the crust without curving up over the north pole to have gotten to Siberia. On a straight through impact, I'm not entirely sure where she'd have come through.

Sorry, I did not clarify myself better. Her ship?? could get from Kansas to Siberia by going fast enough to break through Earth's crust, travel through the mantle and almost make it out the other side's crust. Anything going into the core would hit it and stop.

Oh sure, something sufficiently invulnerable could do that if it was moving at exactly the right speed. (Too fast and it would fly away on the other side, too slow it wouldn't make it through)

But something at that speed would vaporize a good chunk of the planet when it hit.
It's comic book physics. Don't look to closely.


Guys you're all missing the fact that the Coordinates that the ship punched down on are right across the river from Metropolis. ;-)

Osirion

Paizo Superscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Comics Subscriber
jemstone wrote:
Guys you're all missing the fact that the Coordinates that the ship punched down on are right across the river from Metropolis. ;-)

That is probably an easter egg.


jemstone wrote:
Guys you're all missing the fact that the Coordinates that the ship punched down on are right across the river from Metropolis. ;-)

Huge in-joke.


godsDMit wrote:


Basically, what Im seeing in this is 'My work is too important to reboot, but yours isnt.'

Well put, and I would say this is the larger problem by far.

Taldor

Except that Metropolis in the DCU is in NY State. (Gotham is in New Jersey).


Read 3 more today (been kinda busy).

Suicide Squad was ok, not thrilled about the lineup. The new Waller doesnt bother me that much but its making me feel like im picked up another Image comic. That does bother me. The writer sucked...

Spoiler:
Torturing the group in such a manner, telling them they pass, and dumping them out of a plane into a job while they are still hurt/bleeding/probably dying is stupid.... unless they all have Wolverine like healing factors. Very Image Comic like.

I will not be picking up more issues.

Birds of Prey was good. The story isnt too bad, and we only see 2 members so far (which is fine by me) but may bug other team-book fans. Way better than Suicide Squad.
Catwoman- I liked this alot. Yes it probably needed a mature rating, but it was still great. You could feel the hate coming off her when she did what she did to that mobster, which reminded me that she is Catwoman... an anti-hero that could get real violent when the need arose. Under the old Balent days Selina was another Batman or Nightwing. We never really got to see a hatefully violent side of her. She was pretty much a clepto-superhero.
The new #1 reminded me that she is also a villain. Good Book.

I just need to read Nightwing, Batman, and Red Hood to be all caught up now.


godsDMit wrote:
Basically, what Im seeing in this is 'My work is too important to reboot, but yours isnt.'

I think it has more to do with the sales numbers of Green Lantern and Batman, which are DC's cash cows. They probably don't want to tinker too much with the few books they have that are regularly topping the sales charts.


Charlie Brooks wrote:
I think it has more to do with the sales numbers of Green Lantern and Batman, which are DC's cash cows. They probably don't want to tinker too much with the few books they have that are regularly topping the sales charts.

+1

The real test of how well the reboot went will be seeing what the sales numbers are in January. Once the people who plan on dropping the title do so and the novelty factor wears off. Although even in my own comic shop the owners have mentioned that people who had left DC (and sometimes comics as a whole) are picking them back up again. How many are going to stay is the real question.


I'll be sticking with R-Rated Catwoman for the nonce..it should be interesting to see where they want to go with Selina.


Jason Ellis 350 wrote:


The real test of how well the reboot went will be seeing what the sales numbers are in January. Once the people who plan on dropping the title do so and the novelty factor wears off. Although even in my own comic shop the owners have mentioned that people who had left DC (and sometimes comics as a whole) are picking them back up again. How many are going to stay is the real question.

FWIW, my comic shop is selling out every #1 book, (except Omac iirc). Not sure how much of each book they are ordering though. The owner asked me if I want the same set of books for #2 or ir if I wanted to drop any titles. I told her to drop Batwing and order the rest again.

#1s will always sell well as people try them out. I think some of the "shiny" will wear off so to speak, but it's looking good at my neck of the woods. YMMV.


Red Hood and the Outlaws.

I feel like I'm coming into the middle of a movie as I dont know much about Red Hood (beyond that he's Jason Todd). He was introduced during my several year hiatus from comics. So I dont know who the Untitled were, some Caste thing etc.
I've always loved Arsenal and Starfire so i'm good with the lineup.

The Tamaranean extremely short-term memory thing is both good and bad. More good as it's another thing "alien" about here beyond her skin tone. It pushes her one step farther than "another comic book alien that acts human".
The bad is that it screams "hot, horny, alien chick" which probably targets the adolescent crowd. The writer (old hat Scott Lobdell was it?) should grow up already.
Overall, I like the team so I like the book enough to give it a few more issues. I know a Titans crossover/reunion will happen soon, it is inevitable. So i'm in for now.

Osirion

Matthew Morris wrote:

Speaking of Terra...

One of the things I liked that they retconned preboot was the strong indication that Terra II was Terra I plucked out of time and brought back to life. It was a 'nature vs. nuture' argument to me. Given a fresh chance to live, seeing all the people she hurt with new eyes, would she revert to psycho or be a true hero? And if the later, then how would she react when she found out she was that girl?

In his very first appearance, IIRC, her brother Geo-Force had been killed (by his brother?) and dumped in a shallow grave, and returned to life, as the earth itself restored him. Her family already has precedent for being restored to life by the earth itself, so Terra kind of has a built-in 'get out of death free' card, without even the usual sorts of comic-book shenanigans.

I kind of like her story the way it was, as the character who not only wasn't redeemed, but actively would have scoffed at the notion. It was, at the time, all shocking and new.

In recent years, it's almost become a trope, with teams like the Runaways and Avengers Academy having 'who is going to be the traitor' built right into the series debut.


Aazen wrote:
Except that Metropolis in the DCU is in NY State. (Gotham is in New Jersey).

Well, that depends on when you're being told about it. For a good long while, Metropolis was in Delaware. In "Smallville," it's clearly in Kansas. Frank Miller would have you believe that both Gotham and Metropolis are both actually New York City.

Besides, it's entirely possible to have two cities with the same name but in different states. I point you at the 23 towns and cities named Paris right here in the US, as an example. ;)

I agree, the coordinates were totally an easter egg. I do wonder if the artist and writer knew that the area is forest, and not farmland, though.

Andoran

Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Modules, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Matthew Morris wrote:


I never saw Jean Paul as a 'side' character. (Unless you mean after Alpha Fight was cancelled) I'm (extremely) pissed about Starfire being mind-raped (yes mods, I think I'm using that word in context here) in the rebbot. To me that would be the same as deciding, for the sake of 'diversity' to make Tim gay.
(Amusingly, this Superboy I'd not have an issue with. Kon-el is gone forever, this isn't Kon while Tim is still (allegedly) pre-boot Tim.)

What are your thoughts on Bunker? I have some issues with the origin.* But think he's either going to be a break out, or a (no pun intended) flame-out. I do find the 'he's TOO gay!' arguments funny. Um, gays run the gamut from the Indian guy I worked with (my reaction being 'really? I didn't know, or really care much.') to the flaming type.

*** spoiler omitted **...

I mean Northstar when they brought him in to the x franchise as the "gay guy".

I have serious doubts on Bunker. I hate when they try to cram as many diversities on one character like they are trying to fill a quota. Poor rural mexican gay is too much, and the backstory you quote it seems ridiculous.

Tim wouldn't be my first choice for a gay character (that'd go to Kid Devil who it seems is gone...I haven't read since one year later) but he seems the most obvious.

RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8

Set wrote:
Matthew Morris wrote:

Speaking of Terra...

One of the things I liked that they retconned preboot was the strong indication that Terra II was Terra I plucked out of time and brought back to life. It was a 'nature vs. nuture' argument to me. Given a fresh chance to live, seeing all the people she hurt with new eyes, would she revert to psycho or be a true hero? And if the later, then how would she react when she found out she was that girl?

In his very first appearance, IIRC, her brother Geo-Force had been killed (by his brother?) and dumped in a shallow grave, and returned to life, as the earth itself restored him. Her family already has precedent for being restored to life by the earth itself, so Terra kind of has a built-in 'get out of death free' card, without even the usual sorts of comic-book shenanigans.

I kind of like her story the way it was, as the character who not only wasn't redeemed, but actively would have scoffed at the notion. It was, at the time, all shocking and new.

In recent years, it's almost become a trope, with teams like the Runaways and Avengers Academy having 'who is going to be the traitor' built right into the series debut.

I liked the Terra as villian bit, but I also like characters who are confronted with their past*. Too many comic book villians-turned-heroes get a clean slate. Terra never would. (Part of my issue with Deathstroke was when the character crossed the line from 'paid assassin' to 'city killing lunatic'. It changed him from honourable villian to psychotic.)

I thought the 'turning Terra to stone' in Blackest Night was a way they were going to revive her, honestly. I was looking forward to seeing 'which' Terra we got back.

*

Spoiler:
Being a fan of backstory, I made a draconic templated sorcerer (3.5) who I, for a change, left her background completely blank. I said, "Her first memory is in a demonic temple, standing by the altar, naked, surrounded by dead cultists with their blood on her claws. (rifting on the Verbena Wilderslante "We come into this life screaming, naked, covered in blood. The fun doesn't have to stop there.") I was enjoying the ride when a Shader Kai claimed to know her past...

Osirion

Paizo Superscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Comics Subscriber
jemstone wrote:
I agree, the coordinates were totally an easter egg. I do wonder if the artist and writer knew that the area is forest, and not farmland, though.

Read Supergirl again this weekend. The coordinates given did not say they were in Kansas, only that the incident was similar to the one in Kansas.

RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8

So NSFW, but I enjoyed this take on Starfire

Rifting on a later removed panel

Taldor

Agreed. And Concur.


Aazen wrote:

Agreed. And Concur.

Meh. There is a very, very good argument that could be made that the Starfire on the TT Cartoon was NOT Starfire, but another character.


Matthew Morris wrote:

So NSFW, but I enjoyed this take on Starfire

Rifting on a later removed panel

Some people just hate on the cheesecake.


Best quote I've seen on one of the links so far- DCnU Ranking of Things I’m Outraged About:

1. Best fat character in comics becomes thin.

2. Best paralyzed character walks and kicks people in the face.

3. Wasted opportunity: the lack of creativity and risk taking in most of the new comics.

1,000,333,402. Long-fetishized female comics characters are now somewhat more explicitly fetishized.

For me, #2 is #1, and #1 is #1,000,333,403.

RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8

Freehold DM wrote:
Aazen wrote:

Agreed. And Concur.

Meh. There is a very, very good argument that could be made that the Starfire on the TT Cartoon was NOT Starfire, but another character.

"There's a very good argument that the Batgirl in The Batman was NOT Batgirl, but a different character."

That's the thing. Starfire on the cartoon was the media version. If they're going to use the 'well the batgirl everyone knew was Barbara Gordon' argument, then to turn it around and say "Well the Starfire everyone knew was the Teen Titan one, but we're going to replace her with a goldfish" falls flat

(Aside, we had the 'old' Amanda Waller in Young Justice Friday.)


Not from where I am standing. Aside from name and skin coloration, the characters had little in common. Your argument cuts both ways.

Matthew Morris wrote:
Freehold DM wrote:
Aazen wrote:

Agreed. And Concur.

Meh. There is a very, very good argument that could be made that the Starfire on the TT Cartoon was NOT Starfire, but another character.

"There's a very good argument that the Batgirl in The Batman was NOT Batgirl, but a different character."

That's the thing. Starfire on the cartoon was the media version. If they're going to use the 'well the batgirl everyone knew was Barbara Gordon' argument, then to turn it around and say "Well the Starfire everyone knew was the Teen Titan one, but we're going to replace her with a goldfish" falls flat

(Aside, we had the 'old' Amanda Waller in Young Justice Friday.)

RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8

Freehold DM wrote:
Not from where I am standing. Aside from name and skin coloration, the characters had little in common. Your argument cuts both ways.

I disagree. (obviously) For starters it's not my argument, it's DC's.

Since the 80's titans are still apparently in continuity (at least parts) if they wanted to make an issue of Kory's alieness, it could have been easily done.

Roy: Um, Kory, are you ok? you know, Nightwing, Titans, etc?

Kory: *laugh* Roy, you know my people don't have all the silly taboos humans do. Dick and I are no longer together. Jason pleases me, so why shouldn't I? If you would like to join in...

voila! She's still alien, points it out, and suddenly that it's her people's custom to be, um, causal about such things makes sense without her being a brain damaged goldfish. You can also make her the same kind of loving person she is in the cartoon, while 'maturing' her. ("Of course you're my friends. In my world friends share everything." as an example)


Just another thing we don't agree on. And to be clear I was talking about the webcomic comparing the tv series to the current comic.

RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8

Freehold DM wrote:
Just another thing we don't agree on. And to be clear I was talking about the webcomic comparing the tv series to the current comic.

Oh, I agree we disagree.* But we're already seeing continuity errors in the books creeping in. (The Batcomputer recognizing Tim as being a member of a team that doesn't exist yet, Raven just emerging and yet the 80's Titans still seem to be in continuity, etc.)

Spoiler:
you're still wrong :P

Andoran

What book is the batcomputer recognizing Tim in a team that doesnt exist yet?

DC really needs to come out with an official list that is still part of the continuity for the reboot. I dont mean 'part of TT', I mean, which run or which issues from what years, etc. Of course, that would be something to do if they were dedicated to making this thing go long term, but since it doesnt look like its going to be longterm, I guess they needn't bother.

RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8

godsDMit wrote:

What book is the batcomputer recognizing Tim in a team that doesnt exist yet?

DC really needs to come out with an official list that is still part of the continuity for the reboot. I dont mean 'part of TT', I mean, which run or which issues from what years, etc. Of course, that would be something to do if they were dedicated to making this thing go long term, but since it doesnt look like its going to be longterm, I guess they needn't bother.

Panel from Batman #1 Here.

Since the first few issues of Teen Titans are 'getting the band together' (and Superboy isn't Kon-el, and Kid Flash isn't the Bart we know and love) there are no Teen Titans for him to be a member of. (Note it says "Current: Red Robin, Teen Titans.") (Pet Peeve, it doesn't list Dick as Former: Batman, but that's my inner Wingnut showing)

Ignoring that, I love the interaction between the four of them.

Qadira RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16

Matt,

It's pretty clear that Dick Grayson in that picture could never have passed as Batman. He's 6 inches shorter than Bruce.

RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8

Chris Mortika wrote:

Matt,

It's pretty clear that Dick Grayson in that picture could never have passed as Batman. He's 6 inches shorter than Bruce.

Well, I recall Jim Gordon and others knowing that Dick wasn't the same Batman. Among other things... They liked hin better. ;-)

Still, unless they're going to invent a new team of Titans in flashbacks, it still leaves a hole. And Dick-as-Batman was referenced in Nightwing #1*

*

Spoiler:
from reading reviews. I've not bought any of the 52, nor even pirated copies. I'm keeping my promise to myself.

Andoran

Chris Mortika wrote:

Matt,

It's pretty clear that Dick Grayson in that picture could never have passed as Batman. He's 6 inches shorter than Bruce.

In that picture, yea, he is, but that really depends on the artist.

Also, like MM was saying, Gordon realized right away it wasnt the same guy. Id take it to the extent that he had even realized that Robin changes out from time to time and that the new Batman was the first Robin.


Speaking as a Superman fan boy, but infrequent comic reader, I have read exactly one of the new 52: Action #1.

I rather liked it.


Charles Scholz wrote:
jemstone wrote:
I agree, the coordinates were totally an easter egg. I do wonder if the artist and writer knew that the area is forest, and not farmland, though.

Read Supergirl again this weekend. The coordinates given did not say they were in Kansas, only that the incident was similar to the one in Kansas.

I think you'll find that I corrected myself once I actually looked up the coordinates. ;)

I wrote:

So it turns out that Lat 37.13 Long -88.73 is in Western Kentucky, right near Paducah, and is in fact quite heavily forested - NOT the nice, wide, open farmland that is depicted on the opening page.

Little FUN thing, though... It's right across the river from Metropolis, Illinois. Ho ho ho!

Still, it's in Western Kentucky, and is quite heavily forested. Unless that area in the DCU has been cleared for farms to feed all the new metahumans.

Also, I totally just typed "meatahumans" three times before getting it right. Mmm. Meata Human.

Matthew Morris wrote:

Well, I recall Jim Gordon and others knowing that Dick wasn't the same Batman. Among other things... They liked hin better. ;-)

Still, unless they're going to invent a new team of Titans in flashbacks, it still leaves a hole. And Dick-as-Batman was referenced in Nightwing #1*

Which brings us back to the whole "either toss the entire continuity or keep it, don't just cherry pick" conclusion, methinks.

Paizo Employee Publisher, Chief Creative Officer

Were any of you reading comics immediately after Crisis on Infinite Earths back in 85-86? It strikes me that we had a very similar situation vis a vis continuity back then. It wasn't clear, immediately, what was in and what was out, and it led to some... stickiness for the first couple of years until people developed a sense of what is any isn't kosher.

This reboot is exacerbated a bit because there was apparently a rushed creative schedule on the books (which can lead to mistakes) and because at least some of the books were in the can or deep in development when DC decided to reboot. I know Batwoman #1 was originally supposed to come out a while ago, but was "held back" to time it for this relaunch.

At this point I expect significant revision about what's going on with Starfire, and I wouldn't be surprised to see them backtrack on Amanda Waller, too. I think the folks in editorial know they messed up on those two choices, at least in retrospect given the fan reaction. Neither of these character elements are irreversible. Kory is not going to remain a mindless sex-doll forever, is what I'm trying to say. It sucks that it happened, but it doesn't really ruin the whole of the reboot. At least not for me.

As for the Batcomputer calling Tim a member of the Teen Titans... I think that's really a nitpick. It's akin to complaining that the caption in Stormwatch #1 refers to events in Superman #1, which comes out three weeks later. Yeah, it's annoying, and yeah, it's a minor error, but it's really not that big of a deal. I mean, we know the Teen Titans are coming. We've even seen the whole team assembled on the last page of Superboy #1.

I don't think you can assume that every book that comes out in a given month happens at exactly the same time. One comic might have a three-issue arc that covers, in total, the events of a single day, while another comic might span a month or more in the same three issues.

It's neat when comics can be coordinated so that they do occur in exactly the right order, but that's a very tall order, and not a metric by which you can fairly judge any comic universe, at any time.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that a lot of the condemnation of the reboot in this thread and elsewhere on the net seems, to me, to be focusing on pretty nitpicky stuff, damning the whole thing because of a few bad decisions.

From where I was sitting as a lapsed reader, resurrecting every dead character in the multiverse and making every known character into a Colored Lantern Corps member was a bad decision, and one that kept me from coming back to comics. Adherence to muddled continuity* is part of what's been slowly killing comics for more than a decade, and it appears as though this course correction, from a sales perspective, was exactly the right choice for DC.

I'm certainly glad they did it. And while I haven't fully appreciated every change they've made, and I fell that they've certainly done some dumb stuff, as a whole I think they are headed in the right direction.

* Yes, I realize that stubborn Geoff Johns got to keep his precious, precious Green Lantern continuity, so much of this garbage is probably still in continuity, but my general point remains.

Osirion

Paizo Superscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Comics Subscriber

Speaking of the dead; has anyone noticed the high body count, both hero and villain, in the DCU after the original Crisis? I wonder if any will be making a comeback?

Qadira

a very large body count, and yes there was a long time, 2 years I think before the continuity started to mesh.


I can't help but wonder if the teen Titans cartoon had an effect on how people remember /view Starfire. What I'm seeing in a lot of responses online doesn't match my memory of the character. I will have to go to my storage facility and check out some back issues. F

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