Evil PC's in Carrion Crown


Carrion Crown


I just got in the first adventure, the Haunting of Harrowstone, and am reading through in preparation for running this AP for my group when we finish Rise of the Runelords. (The GM needs a break and I *love* horror themed adventures, so everyone wins.)

One of my players has expressed a lot of interest in being an undead horde creating necromancer, poring through the APG and Ultimate Magic looking for an archetype that will allow him to do this in a satisfactory way. Rather than shut him down outright, I'm looking for ways to incorporate the possibility of evil PC's into the game. How would you handle this as GM? Is this the "right" AP for an evil party or not?

From what my impressions are thus far, if he plays an openly evil necromancer type, he will quickly earn the hatred of Ravengro and probably incite a riot amongst the townsfolk. I am going to play the citizens as superstitious and scared folk, distrustful of strangers and desperate for anything that may give them a scapegoat or allow them to feel less helpless. When the guy openly toying with necromancy comes along, it seems to me to provide the perfect opportunity for this to boil over into violence.

So I'm torn- on the one hand I want to encourage players to explore concepts that interest them, and on the other I want to give a genuine horror experience and play the campaign world as a living thing that responds to their actions, and I don't see how Ravengro is going to let an openly evil party operate. What would you do?


Not all concepts should be allowed in any campaign. IMO, I would just say "No". Unless he comes up with a rock solid Incharacter reason (and sticks with it) why his character would fight other undead/necromancers there is way too much temptation to "go to the dark side." Something like "I HATE other undead/evil/etc... and I am just fighting fire with fire".

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

I have a LE Death Mage (Corpse aspected), ala Super Genius Games, in my game and it hasn't been a problem so far. That's with two paladins in the Party (one fallen but trying to recover - alignment still LG).

There are several things that make this work though:
a) He doesn't flaunt it. He only uses his undead manipulating/creating powers up at Harrowstone and always makes sure to have them destroyed before coming back into town.
b) He has done what he can to work with (& get forgiveness from) the Church of Pharasma & Father Grimburrow. An aspect of the faith that really helps here is the idea Pharasmites have of the White Necromancer, one who uses their power of Necromancy against undead.
c) Though he IS evil (mainly in the "I have the right to do whatever is in my power to muck with the enemy, ESPECIALLY the undead), he is dedicated to the group and (arguably) to saving the town (he has some issues over them not fixing this mess & burying the dead 50 years ago). Once he hits 5+ levels/HD however, he and the Paladins are likely going to have a talk.

Oh, nd profession/cover-story? He's a Grave-digger/taxidermist.


Have to agree with Valandil. While some types of evil PCs might work in Carrion Crown, this is just not the one. As the AP is centred on fighting the Whispering Way this guy sounds like he would be one of them. Yes, I'm sure you or him could stretch the concept of the character in some unlikely if sort of plausible fashion to make it work but I feel that he's better dropping the idea.
A wizard who dabbles in magic perhaps bit more on the black side sure? A wizard with the sole intetion of raising an undead horde, not so much.
As always if you do decide to say no explain your reasons and take it from there.


Let him but as a kind considerate GM point out that the AP is set in Ustalav and there are Inquisitors of Pharasma just itching to go hunting necromancers...
Do the Church routinely cast Divination spells just to see what the biggest threat to their creed is that week? Probably...
I see Ustalav as a very paranoid place...
But as GM you can just say no.

Dark Archive

If ALL of your players want to play with evil characters (including a necromancer) maybe there is a solution:

Spoiler:
Let the party be the bad guys. The necromancer is a Whispering Way novice follower, who is trying to free the ghosts of Harrowstone, and professor Lorrimor is still alive. They should go into harrowstone, fight with the ghosts or dominate them, to bind their souls.

Prof. Lorrimor discovers your players, and try to stop them. If they kill prof. Lorrimor, the main story persists. Pharasma´s church send one inquisitor after them, to punish the necromancer, or maybe a party of NPCs friends of Lorrimor comes to Ravengro to the funeral, and investigates the crime.

In the second volume, they need to charge the beast of Lepidstad with their crimes... ;)


Azaneal wrote:

If ALL of your players want to play with evil characters (including a necromancer) maybe there is a solution:

** spoiler omitted **

That's a great thought, Azaneal, but I think I would rather go with a generalized missive of "don't play counter to the campaign." I'm not going to ban evil aligned PC's outright, because sometimes playing a bad guy can be really fun in the right group, but I think that after reading the module more thoroughly and getting an outline of events to come, I am not going to allow any undead creation or lich aspirations in this game... at least not at first. Perhaps throughout the campaign we could play through a fall from grace and work with it. We'll see. This game is not going to start for about 2 real-time months anyway, as we're currently playing through another adventure path and may want a short break from Pathfinder (perhaps a few one shots with Mutants and Masterminds or Shadowrun or something similar).

Thanks for the input, everyone. I posted this before I had even read through the Harrowstone Prison section of the adventure module, and after finishing my read I've decided I don't want to run THIS particular AP with PC's who resemble their opponents so closely.


I played in an online roleplaying intensive game called ArmageddonMUD. When it came to alignment you could play:
Evil characters with flavour X
Evil characters with flavour Y
Evil characters with flavour Z

etc, etc.

There existed organisations composed of evil people. Not everyone within a single organisation got along. And not all evil organisations got along with each other (alliances were made, sometimes they were broken).

Just because you're players are evil, doesn't mean they're in favour of the Whispering Way. They could definitely be evil AND oppose the Whispering Way. Or they could at the last minute make a move to lop off the current leaders of the Whispering Way and place themselves in their spot. I think both of those would be satisfying endings to an evil themed carrion crown campaign.

That said, my only requirement would be the players make a cohesive group. So no paladin with 3 evil PCs. Or a tiefling hating aasimar in the same party as a tiefling.

Contributor, RPG Superstar 2009, RPG Superstar Judgernaut

Radu the Wanderer wrote:
...I think I would rather go with a generalized missive of "don't play counter to the campaign." I'm not going to ban evil aligned PC's outright, because sometimes playing a bad guy can be really fun in the right group, but I think that after reading the module more thoroughly and getting an outline of events to come, I am not going to allow any undead creation or lich aspirations in this game... at least not at first. Perhaps throughout the campaign we could play through a fall from grace and work with it.

Let me propose a compromise solution for you...one that I think just might enhance your game a thousand-fold. If you really trust your player...

Spoiler:

Pull him aside and spill the beans about the Carrion Crown campaign. Not everything, mind you. Just what you need to tell him so he'll understand why you're concerned about him playing an evil-aligned, undead-raising necromancer. Give him the specifics about the Whispering Way. Make him your "ally" among the other players who has more knowledge about the direction the story will be taking, but coach him so he doesn't let that personal knowledge unduly influence his character's actions.

Then, suggest to him that his character concept could work, but only if he'd consider a "reverse" fall-from-grace...i.e., instead of a good-aligned wizard succumbing to the dark side, have him explore a character who starts out evil, but then has his eyes opened to the dangers of necromancy because of the extremes to which the Whispering Way has taken it. Have this guy become the ultimate "white necromancer"...someone who has seen the enemy and realizes it's himself...and those like he used to be.

Over the course of the campaign...or as early as you and he agree...have his character undergo an alignment change, switching from evil to good (or at least neutral)...but with the singular goal of undoing the harm caused by the Whispering Way and countering their ultimate plan. Give the player some room to negotiate this kind of character development in whatever way makes the most sense according to how each adventure plays out. But, and this is important, keep him focused on changing the PC so he becomes more supportive of his fellow adventurers and opposed to the very thing he once relished.


My two cents,
--Neil

Liberty's Edge

I think the OP has gotten some good advice already, so I am going to ask my own related question.

I have a player who has expressed an interest for some in playing a werewolf. In this case, he wouldn't truly be 'evil' his idea was that he would be an inquisitor who hunted werewolves, blaming them for his families death and turning him into such a creature, when in fact his family was natural lycanthropes and simply taken out by a different clan when he was young.

When he heard about CC he thought it would be the perfect campaign to put that into play and I agreed with some caveats. I didn't mind him being natural, so long as he wouldn't be using his bite to turn people, that he was aware what would happen in Ustalav if he was discovered to be a were(which means its more for flavor and he isn't going to be changing forms much, even not wanting the party to know), and that I would have to read through the story to make sure it wouldn't conflict with anything first.

With howling moon out, I can see lots of great ways to tie him to the story though I haven't decided whether having him a member of a specific clan or having one of the other clans be the one who wiped out his family would be best.

However, there is a moment in the story where everyone is literally tested as werewolves. I don't want to simply skip over it, since it serves a good purpose of showing that none of the other guests are were creatures and makes the mystery that the players are trying to solve better, not to mention giving a better view of the personality of one of the NPCs, but I am having difficulty trying to determine how I could fit this in with the character and not have it just run the story into a wall.

I can't imagine that the rest of the players, after having adventured for so long with him are going to just step back and let the rest of the lodge tear him apart when they uncover what he is. However, if they defend themselves and take out other lodge members, then they aren't going to be able to gather the information they need to continue the plot. Its -very- unlikely that they will already have all the information needed by this point.

Any ideas?

Dark Archive

The idea of the white necromancer could work very well in this AP. I played a Neutral Bones Oracle in a friend's game about a year ago, who managed to be a hero despite his use of the undead. You just gotta know how to support it with a good back story.

His divine powers were derived from Urgathoa, a kind of "blessing" from the goddess. Trouble was, he never wanted his powers, he hated Urgathoa and her church, as they had more or less caused the death of his family and turned his childhood friend into a monster, so he used her gift against her. He knew all along that creating the undead was an evil act, so he remained neutral, but he always worked toward the greater good. Whenever he raised the dead he would always take time to use Speak With Dead to ask for the soul's permission first, and then would give them a proper burial when he was able. It was a cool concept, and one of my favorites thus far. If you want to toss him the idea, you might end up with a necromancer that actually fits Carrion Crown.


Hey all, I'm a pretty new GM and just wanted to ask how I might deal with my whole party deciding to be evil for this campaign. I have a LE Monk, a NE Witch and a CE Antipaladin. I've already had the idea to give the anti paladin an ulterior motive to being with the party (who worship Zyphus) He is playing along as a fellow worshiper but is actually with the whipsering way. I can see PCs who worship Zyphus fighting against the whipsering way since accidental death requires life but i'm not sure how to get everyone to the funeral. Any tips would be much appreciated.


Well, my first idea would be that the PCs don't want to stop the Whispering Way because what they are doing is evil, but because they have different plans about how to use the Carrion Crown. They are a split faction of the Whispering Way who is plotting against the other and they have to stop them and use the Crown for their own benefit.
They have approached the Professor to manipulate him and get information from him and they earned enough trust from him to be invited to the funeral.
As they have split their ways with the main cult, they need to follow the clues presented in the adventure to follow their steps.


@Carl Wagner: evil parties have some serious downsides that just don't tend to pop up in good-aligned parties. You know, like one PC deciding to murder the others in their sleep. You need to give your PCs a strong, in-character reason to work together.

There's an excellent essay on common pitfalls of evil campaigns at the back of the the first book of Way of the Wicked. Consider getting ahold of a copy of that -- it'll help you avoid some mistakes.


Tinalles wrote:

@Carl Wagner: evil parties have some serious downsides that just don't tend to pop up in good-aligned parties. You know, like one PC deciding to murder the others in their sleep. You need to give your PCs a strong, in-character reason to work together.

There's an excellent essay on common pitfalls of evil campaigns at the back of the the first book of Way of the Wicked. Consider getting ahold of a copy of that -- it'll help you avoid some mistakes.

Excelent advice. I'm GMing Way of the Wicked and it does a great job dealing with many of the common «evil guy» issues.

About the PCs wanting to murder each others,I found it to be a good thing to have a talk to your players and make it clear that you want them to make characters who'd want to work together and with a sense of loyalty/honor, even if it's a twisted one. Let them no that you don't want infight, I've made my intentions clear to my players and it worked. You'd be surprised to know how many players think that this kind of stuff comes attached to the evil alignment and falsely believe that they have to behave like that.

Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder Adventure Path / Carrion Crown / Evil PC's in Carrion Crown All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.
Recent threads in Carrion Crown