Extract poison from slain monsters


Rules Questions

Liberty's Edge

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Curious if there are rules for being able to extract poison from monsters you have recently killed who use it?

For example, my party recently killed some giant scorpions. I am a poisoner rogue. The DM allowed me to use my Craft Alchemy skill to extract it because we couldn't find any rules for it during the game.

I told the DM I would come here and pose the question in case we over looked something and there is a rule out there for it.

Dark Archive

1 person marked this as FAQ candidate.
starchildren3317 wrote:

Curious if there are rules for being able to extract poison from monsters you have recently killed who use it?

Such a rule would also benefit from clarifying if someone can extract poison from a willing creature, such as a viper, centipede, scorpion, imp, quasit or pseudodragon familiar, or venomous animal companion.


AFAIK there are none, but from what I remember when it was discussed earlier here, then if the GM allows you to extract poison from a monster then said poison should also be part of the loot value that monster has. (e.g. extracting from wyverns could otherwise be a very profitable business)

Dark Archive

While there's never been a rule of this sort, creature-generated poison is one of those things I'd limit to daily uses. Maybe a number of doses / day equal to one's Con modifier (minimum 1)?


In PFS play every time I have seen it come up as the GM it was a DC 20 Heal check. This was the DC listed in the mod. Remember that there is a chance that they can get poisoned just by handlinh the poison. And a DC 20 heal check is hard to hit if you have not put resources into the heal skill.


I figured that "milking" a creature you have of its poison would be treated by Handle Animal.

Alternatively,

0gre, who wrote the Alchemist's Handbook, offers up a feat for this.


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

I don't really like the idea of using only heal to gather poison. I do like using (Craft: Alchemy) for someone with Poison use because heal might teach you were a poison sac is but it wouldn't teach the harvesting of poison. I would also let heal skill work but I think someone who focused on healing would find it repugnant. Live animals would be a double check, Handle Animal and Craft: Alchemy or Heal.

I think the amount of poison gathered would be based on size of the creature rather than the CON score. I mean if you get a tiny spider what is poisonous it would take several to get one dose. Exceptional skill checks would increase the that amount gathered beating the check DC by 10 gets double what it normally would for a creature of its size.

Size would change the dosing amount by factors of 2. Starting at Medium 1 and then for each size step up times 2 and each step down divided by 2. The creatured being killed in combat would half the amount able to be gathered (To account for the amount that the creature used in the fight because even if it missed it still attempted to activate its poison injectors even if it didn't hit flesh.)

So a large creature would be ((1 x 2)/2) = 1 dose after a fight. A Small creature would be ((1/2)/2) = .25 of a dose after a fight.

I am still thinking on the DC I want it set it at. I am considering a variable DC because a snake is easier to harvest than a spider or wasp...but I don't know if I want to add that level of complexity. to the game.

Maybe the DC of the poison plus some constant?

I think DC + HD of creature would make it trival.

Thoughts?


Same DC for crafting it, but I would require a double check of Knowledge Nature and Craft Alchemy. The number of doses should go off the CR of the target.


I like Heal; I'd go with that. Experienced poisoners and assassins should have ranks in Heal.


While a poisoner knowing heal might come in handy if they make a mistake, heal has nothing to do with removing poison sacs/claws/etc from a dead animal.

I'd go with Knowledge(Nature), or maybe Craft(Alchemy) if only because alchemists spend a lot of time fiddling around with potentially dangerous substances.


I played a ranger who extracted venom from dead spiders. My GM ruled a three-stage poison preparation.

1. Identify the creature's poison sac: Knowledge (nature) DC 10 or Survival DC 15.
2. Reflex save to remove the poison sac intact, DC 15. Natural 1 means you poison yourself.
3. Prepare poison with Craft (alchemy).

Steps 1 & 3 allow take 10.

Grand Lodge

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I found this post on En World (originally posted back in 2007):

"Dragon #349 has a Class Acts article called "Poisionmaking Guide"

It details making poison with the Craft: Poisonmaking skill - following the normal crafting rules with the exceptions that it deals in GP per week, not SP and the raw material cost can be anywhere from one-sixth to three-quarters of the base price.

The other thing it does is call for a Gather Info check in order to be able to locate the raw materials for purchase. The base DC is 10 and it gives a list of modifiers - examples include +1 per CR of the creature is comes from, if you’re in the creature's or plants natural habitat. The local laws on poison use... etc.

If you make this check by 5 or more, the cost is 1/6. If you fail, you can't find it and if you fail by 5 or more, you have alerted the local authorities that you are looking for poison.

It also has rules on Harvesting: A survival check with a DC equal to the craft DC of the poison is needed. Success equals raw materials equal to 10 sp x your check result. Knowledge: Nature gives a synergy bonus to this when harvesting from plants.

If a creature leaves no body behind after death (the example they give is a Shadow) the DC is upped by 5 and you must make the check in the round after death (a full round action).

Raw materials last for 1d6 days before spoiling. A DC 12 Knowledge: Nature check will tell you exactly how long (i.e. what the die rolled). A DC 15 Craft: Alchemy check prolongs the "shelf life" by one week plus one week per 5 points you beat the DC by. Against, failure within 5 simply fails while failure by 5 or more destroys the raw materials. You can only extend potency once this way. Magic can be used too though - gentle repose and unguent of timelessness are listed examples."

Obviously the rules are for 3.5, so I hope this can still be of some help to you...

-That One Digitalelf Fellow-

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