|
So I am retiring my ranger because the party's arcane support left the group. I made a nice wizard but started thinking that with the APG a wizard EK could be a decent ranged combatant.
We roll so my stats are 17, 17, 13, 12, 11, 9 and I can use ultimate magic plus APG plus core. We are in Council of thieves adventure path so I should top out around 12th level. We have a bard, rogue, cleric, fighter.
So the question is whether I should stay straight Wiz or try to change it up. If changing it up what do you recommend/
So I am retiring my ranger because the party's arcane support left the group. I made a nice wizard but started thinking that with the APG a wizard EK could be a decent ranged combatant.
We roll so my stats are 17, 17, 13, 12, 11, 9 and I can use ultimate magic plus APG plus core. We are in Council of thieves adventure path so I should top out around 12th level. We have a bard, rogue, cleric, fighter.
So the question is whether I should stay straight Wiz or try to change it up. If changing it up what do you recommend/
It would depend on the extent of magic support are you expected to provide.
Playing an eldritch knight means you'll be at casting spells of a level lower than you otherwise would, in exchange for potentially being better at smacking stuff and having more HP. In your case, you'll be casting level 5 spells instead of level 6 spells. If you just need to cast the occasional support spell, you could dedicate a few spell slots to that and still be able to select spells to be effective in combat. If you're expected to handle buffs, debuffs, scrying, magical transport and battlefield control, you'd be better off as a straight wizard.
But most of all, play what you think you would enjoy the most. =)
Do note that in my experience, Eldritch Knights tend to function better as sorcerers, and require planning in terms of feat and spell selection to be effective. A wizard EK might benefit from the scroll master archtype, whilst for sorcerers, I could see a dreamtouched EK or dragon blooded EK being rather effective.
What level are you right now?
I currently play a Fighter 1/Wizard 5/Eldritch Knight 5 who is focused on archery. It works pretty well, but it works AMAZINGLY well if the AP works in a way that you usually know if you're going to be getting into a fight soon. Most of the major buffs are hour/level or 10 mins/level, so they last a good long while, but the 10 mins/level ones still require some foresight on your character's part about when a fight is probably coming up (I find that in many campaigns you generally know when you're going into a dungeon...and the 10 mins/level will last you a whole dungeon unless your group is REALLY slow).
I would stay Wizard as it has the best spells. Witch is interesting for the healing, but loses a few of the really nice buffs for an archer Eldritch Knight. Bard is decent, but also loses some good stuff. (Good Hope is better than Heroism, but only lasts 1 min/level as opposed to 10 min/level...you can still cast heroism as well, but if you're going to do that you should just stay wizard). Sorcerer is good, but you lose versatility and fall even further behind on when you're picking up higher level spells.
Here's my basic build, for whatever it's worth:
Human (Dex and Str are highest, then Int around 13 or 14, then Con at whatever you can get into it, dump charisma)
Traits: Magical Knack, Adopted (Elf - Warrior of Old)
Fighter 1: Weapon Focus, Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot
Wizard 1: Scribe Scroll (transmutation specialist, evocation necromancy opposed)
Wizard 2: Rapid Shot
Wizard 3:
Wizard 4: Arcane Strike
Wizard 5: Craft Magic Arms and Armor
EK 1: Deadly Aim, Improved Initiative
EK 2:
EK 3: Manyshot
EK 4:
EK 5: Weapon Specialization, Point Blank Master
Use Headband of Int to get your Int up to around 16 so you can cast those spells when you get there. Other than that, don't forget about Weapon Blanch from the APG, use only cold iron arrows (they're really cheap and overcome many creatures' damage reduction), use Greater Magic Weapon on your bow so that you can load it with other enhancements instead of just the numerical ones (corrosive, holy, seeking are good ones), Lesser Rod of Extend Spell for GMW and Mage Armor is really nice, pick your buffs well (I like Darkvision, Flame Arrow, Heroism, Gravity Bow, Shield, Mage Armor, GMW, Greater Invisibility, See Invisibility, Protection from Arrows, Resist Energy, Magic Circle vs. Evil, and Vanish and Dimension Door as getaway spells).
Since your group has a bard and a cleric, I think you'd be okay with an eldritch knight. This is assuming that they'll pitch in when spellcasting support is needed.
Frankly the EK doesn't work all that well ... there are simply not enough good arcane buffs and attack booster spells in PF. You would be wasting your time with ranged weapons, better to just cast spells.
The Arcane Archer has a huge BAB requirement, making entry at low level impossible without wasting much too many levels on non caster levels.
Really the best ranged gish is the Magus, spell combat only requires you to attack with a melee weapon, not to make melee attacks with it ... so you can throw a dagger, or even one handed weapons with the throw anything feat.
I couldn't disagree more. Where exactly are you getting this notion from?
Fighter 1/Wizard 5/EK 10/AA 4 is one of the best ranged builds in the game. You're talking about 9th level casting and 17 BAB. Arcane Archer is a pain to get into, which is why you take a bunch of EK levels first.
A magus thrower? How's that work? How many times do you get to throw? Your damage isn't going to be anywhere near as good as an Archer character, and the spells are worse as well. A magus is fun for melee and some burst damage, but I don't see the throwing thing working real well.
Frankly the EK doesn't work all that well ... there are simply not enough good arcane buffs and attack booster spells in PF. You would be wasting your time with ranged weapons, better to just cast spells.
The Arcane Archer has a huge BAB requirement, making entry at low level impossible without wasting much too many levels on non caster levels.
Really the best ranged gish is the Magus, spell combat only requires you to attack with a melee weapon, not to make melee attacks with it ... so you can throw a dagger, or even one handed weapons with the throw anything feat.
I couldn't disagree more. Where exactly are you getting this notion from?
Fighter 1/Wizard 5/EK 10/AA 4 is one of the best ranged builds in the game. You're talking about 9th level casting and 17 BAB. Arcane Archer is a pain to get into, which is why you take a bunch of EK levels first.
A magus thrower? How's that work? How many times do you get to throw? Your damage isn't going to be anywhere near as good as an Archer character, and the spells are worse as well. A magus is fun for melee and some burst damage, but I don't see the throwing thing working real well.
Furthermore, ultimate magic has more than a few good options for Eldritch Knights, particularly by way of spell selection. Wizards get the scroll master archetype, sorcerers get the eldritch heritage feat-chain (dragon heritage seems particularly tasty) or the option of changing their caster stat to wis (which makes a 1-level dip into monk an interesting option). Granted eldritch heritage is a general feat, but with the funky CHA requirements, you're really only looking at a few classes that can capitalise on it.
Oh and spells. Higher level EKs have the advantage in spells and UM accentuates that. If I'm not mistaken, cold strike is a swift action 1d6/level cone blast that magi don't get. Also, vengeful outrage seems like a curiously good option for a BUFF (+6 morale bonus to Strength and Constitution, a +3 morale bonus on Will saves, and is immune to the shaken and frightened conditions as long as you are in combat). Cloak of dreams on a fey sorcerer makes for an excellent layer of melee-defense. Also, with higher level spell-slots, sorcerers handle metamagic alot easier.
By the way, force punch is a beautiful, beautiful spell. I'm picturing a palm-strike that puts a barbarian's bull-rush to shame. Or combine it with reach spell for a jedi-style force-push. =)
Wow. Vengeful Outrage in combo with Giant Form or something like that can get pretty out of hand. Granted, you'll have to know about the fight beforehand, as both spells are only min/level, but still an interesting option.
Wow. Vengeful Outrage in combo with Giant Form or something like that can get pretty out of hand. Granted, you'll have to know about the fight beforehand, as both spells are only min/level, but still an interesting option.
Just keep in mind that it's double-edged. If you're not in combat, you cop the penalties of a geas. But at min/level, as long as you use it judiciously, it rivals a mid-level barbarian's rage.
Also, you get cool points for saying this as you cast it "after all you've put us through, BBEG, I'm gonna enjoy pummeling your face into mulch *smacks fist into his palm and pops a few knuckles*".
Also, ice body is another nice one: immune to critical hits (suck it you critical-feats users), immune to 2 elements (but vulnerable to fire, but you gave yourself resistance to fire earlier, right?) and also immune to a whole load of status effects. If you have time to throw up a few ice walls before wading into combat, you also have awesome superiority in mobility. Oh and you can sit in the middle of a stinking cloud or even cloudkill and go to town whilst your enemies cough and wheeze.