Player Characters with the Young Template?

[Sorren12]

Is this something that you GM's out there would let your players do? And, would the CR -1 allow someone to, say, create a 10th level character in a 9th level campaign?

I am talking about this young template:

"Simple Template: Young (CR –1)
Creatures with the young template are immature specimens of the base creature. You can also use this simple template to easily create a smaller variant of a monster. This template cannot be applied to creatures that increase in power through aging or feeding (such as dragons or barghests) or creatures that are Fine-sized.

Quick Rules: +2 to all Dex-based rolls, –2 on all other rolls, –2 hp/HD.

Rebuild Rules: Size decrease by one category; AC reduce natural armor by –2 (minimum +0); Attacks decrease damage dice by 1 step; Ability Scores –4 Strength, –4 Con, +4 size bonus to Dex."

[Josh M Foster]

Templates like this are for GM to adjust encounters on the fly. It's the anti-advanced, which is also something I'd never let a player take (as well as giant.)

This is a tool for GMs, not an option for players.

[Magicdealer]

I would definitely not allow players the option of using the "young" template.

Bonuses to ac, bonuses to dex... extra caster goodness anyone? And if you're allowing that character an extra level too.... well, that's even better for the caster. Less good for the campaign.

If a player wants to play a "young" character, they can play one without a mechanical effect. Youth or age is more the realm of roleplaying than anything else.

[HaraldKlak]

Sorren12 wrote:

Is this something that you GM's out there would let your players do? And, would the CR -1 allow someone to, say, create a 10th level character in a 9th level campaign?

I am talking about this young template:

"Simple Template: Young (CR –1)
Creatures with the young template are immature specimens of the base creature. You can also use this simple template to easily create a smaller variant of a monster. This template cannot be applied to creatures that increase in power through aging or feeding (such as dragons or barghests) or creatures that are Fine-sized.

Quick Rules: +2 to all Dex-based rolls, –2 on all other rolls, –2 hp/HD.

Rebuild Rules: Size decrease by one category; AC reduce natural armor by –2 (minimum +0); Attacks decrease damage dice by 1 step; Ability Scores –4 Strength, –4 Con, +4 size bonus to Dex."

Not as such.

I would allow them to play young teenagers (if it made sense for the campaign, and race in question), being small and getting a -2 str and +2 dex.
I am quite certain I wouldn't allow it for a race that is already small, as being tiny might provide some problems if the started using reduce person to be diminutive.

The templete it self would be highly problematic. Loosing NA is irrelevant. For all characters loosing con is tough, but many builds would be indifferent to the str loss, and gaining +4 dex could become a nice tradeoff if it is the primary stat. I really wouldn't be equivalent of gaining an extra level.

Making a young version of the player races is difficult, and I would have to adjudicate it on a case by case basis.

[Quantum Steve]

I wouldn't allow a player to take any template as a general rule, but I might make exceptions on a case by case basis.

I'd be wary of possible exploits using the Young Template (eg. small characters planning to make use of reduce person) but if it fit the character concept of a player I trusted not to try and break my campaign, I'd probably let it fly.

Under no circumstances would I hand out extra levels, though.

[LazarX]

Sorren12 wrote:

Is this something that you GM's out there would let your players do? And, would the CR -1 allow someone to, say, create a 10th level character in a 9th level campaign?

I am talking about this young template:

"Simple Template: Young (CR –1)
Creatures with the young template are immature specimens of the base creature. You can also use this simple template to easily create a smaller variant of a monster. This template cannot be applied to creatures that increase in power through aging or feeding (such as dragons or barghests) or creatures that are Fine-sized.

Quick Rules: +2 to all Dex-based rolls, –2 on all other rolls, –2 hp/HD.

Rebuild Rules: Size decrease by one category; AC reduce natural armor by –2 (minimum +0); Attacks decrease damage dice by 1 step; Ability Scores –4 Strength, –4 Con, +4 size bonus to Dex."

That's essentially template abuse. they're meant to describe vastly different creatures, not monkey around with party level, so not only no, but hell no, not only that there's simply not enough ice cream on the planet to bribe me sufficiently, no.

[Are]

I would only consider this if I wanted all the PCs to be children for a campaign, and would likely end up not using the template but rather adjusting stats individually for each race.

If only one PC wanted to be a child, I'd have to think pretty carefully on it. Again though, I'd likely not use the template even if I allowed the concept.

[Spacecase]

We need a template book from paizo with rules and such. I submit this to paizo. Though I'm partially joking, I'm also being very serious.

[Echo Vining]

Although I consider the young template inappropriate for player use, Ultimate Campaign does have rules on age category adjustments for adolescent characters.

[DrDeth]

I agree. Besides we generally dont like to send kids into danger.

[alexd1976]

I wouldn't allow it, too much room for optimization (extra level, DEX bonus... yikes).

[kinevon]

alexd1976 wrote:

I wouldn't allow it, too much room for optimization (extra level, DEX bonus... yikes).

So, can I play a YOUNG-templated Halfling Unchained Rogue?

Even with monsters/creatures, there are plenty of them where the Young template is, seriously, not a -1 to their CR.

Spoiler:

Answer should be a NO, almost as emphatic as LazarX's no. My example above is only one of the many builds possible where the YOUNG template is not going to be much of a disadvantage.

[Cycada]

Totally a four year old post, just by-the-by.

The young template is supposed to be used for monsters. The young age category is supposed to be used for players, though it restricts access to only npc classes. Obviously as a GM you can decide to lift this, but it does prevent using the age category just for mechanical benefit as a default.

[Ring_of_Gyges]

Ultimate Campaigns has rules intended for young PCs. Basically you can only take NPC classes, get some attribute penalties, and have to wait until you're an adult to retrain into a PC class.

[kyrt-ryder]

I played in a campaign where the GM ran a Young Medusa [with a Psionic-style Stone Gaze ability that relied on limited Power Points that I helped him homebrew] as a GMPC to great effect.

I was actually her unofficial 'Mount' so to speak, playing a Large Tiefling who wielded a Platinum Fullblade to deadly effect, with her sitting on the shoulder opposite my sword's hilt while sheathed.

[Aquviel]

I normally agree tha templates are for NPC, but in THIS case: Cyclic Reincarnation
the spell explicitly says that a non-humanoid creature (example: aasimar, tiefling) can gain (75% chance) the Young Template when returns to live.
Example: Bob, an adult tiefling PC dies and is returned to live by Cyclic Incarnation in a young tieling; he is an adult in a young body.
By RAW, it must be used the Young Template, I am correct?

[wraithstrike]

yes