Tarlane |
Superior summons basically makes it so that anytime you do a summon that summons more than one creature(meaning if you use summon monster 2, to summon off the summon monster 1 list, ect), you summon one additional creature.
Added Summonings does the same basic idea, but only when summoning something demonic.
Matt Stich |
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Superior summons basically makes it so that anytime you do a summon that summons more than one creature(meaning if you use summon monster 2, to summon off the summon monster 1 list, ect), you summon one additional creature.
Added Summonings does the same basic idea, but only when summoning something demonic.
So stacking Superior Summons on top of Added Summoning mean you could get 3 creatures from a SMVIII if SMVIII was your highest available SM spell?
wraithstrike |
Tarlane wrote:So stacking Superior Summons on top of Added Summoning mean you could get 3 creatures from a SMVIII if SMVIII was your highest available SM spell?Superior summons basically makes it so that anytime you do a summon that summons more than one creature(meaning if you use summon monster 2, to summon off the summon monster 1 list, ect), you summon one additional creature.
Added Summonings does the same basic idea, but only when summoning something demonic.
Yeah.
nicklas Læssøe |
actually a little wrong.
You can only get 3 or more creatures from a SM VIII if you use it to summon 1d3 monsters of the SM VII list, and you would then recieve 1d3 + 2 creatures, or by using it as a SM VI or lower and u would then recieve 1d4 + 3 creatures, provided that you only summon fiendish creatures.
The new feat only works as described by Tarlane, so you would only recieve 2 monsters if you used the SM VIII to summon 1 fiendish monster from the list of SM VIII monsters, as the feat dosnt work for this.
Still a very good combo, that requires a level 15 or higher char to work, so not really OP i would say.
Sandbox |
I would argue that the 15th Level class ability would stack with superior summons to grant 3 creatures when you summon 1. The class feature causes u to summon an extra demon/fiend whenever you summon. So because u summon multiple creatures, superior summons kicks in an extra...
Rules stack to the most benefit for the Player who makes the investment. Rule of cool also applies:) like u said not exactly OP, but cool...
If you can swing the charisma...eldritch heritage abyssal feat tree on a level 20 truenaming conjurer with a quasit familiar reeks of flavor
Ravingdork |
The thought of summoning five fiendish brachiosauruses fills me with great joy. Nothing quite like having a gargantuan wall of monsters with a crap ton of hit points and high damage attacks with 20 foot reach between you and your enemies.
With Augment Summoning, Power Attack, and smite good they could deal...
...an average of 66 damage per hit, or ~330 damage if they all successfully attack a single good-aligned target. Since they have cleave and only one attack, they might as well cleave too, so they could potentially deal this damage to multiple targets.
Simply brutal for a single spell (even a high level one). The fact that they could continue to attack for even more damage round after round, or could be used to defend the caster as highly effective meat shields makes this an extremely powerful AND versatile combination.
Great find Sandbox.
Ravingdork |
Am I the only one who thinks that RAI it isn't meant to be used like this?
What do you mean? I'm sure this is EXACTLY the way it would have been used. Remember, this only works at levels 15+. A that level, a single archer could kill one of my brachiosaurs in one round. A spellcaster could bypass them entirely and cast flesh to stone on my character.
It IS powerful, but hardly broken.
Ravingdork |
Also, the idea of having a brachiosaur herd running around is so AWESOME that I'll let that float regardless of balance.
Heck, between this, Mad Monkeys and moustache punch, Ultimate Magic gets better and better.
A FIENDISH brachiosaur herd!
I've been trying to picture what they might just look like. I imagine it would be something like this or this. SCARY!!!
Kaiyanwang |
Also, the idea of having a brachiosaur herd running around is so AWESOME that I'll let that float regardless of balance.
It's a matter of space too. The actual chances of accomplish this -AWESOME- combo are not so many IMHO.
So if it happens is more a "funny moment to remember", IMHO.
Ravingdork |
Gorbacz wrote:Also, the idea of having a brachiosaur herd running around is so AWESOME that I'll let that float regardless of balance.
It's a matter of space too. The actual chances of accomplish this -AWESOME- combo are not so many IMHO.
So if it happens is more a "funny moment to remember", IMHO.
Yeah. It's hard to place five 20x20 creatures when you have to get them all within close range (a 95 foot radius centered on you by the time you can cast it). EDIT: Actually, short of there being terrain obstacles, that's pretty easy to do. I could create a line of such monsters right in front of me and they would all fit in the area.
In any case, that's why my abyssal summoner has reach spell. Now I can place them anywhere within a 270-foot radius of my position, which goes a long ways towards getting around said obstacles and also allows me to perform "snipe summons" from a far off hiding space. :D
Kaiyanwang |
Kaiyanwang wrote:Gorbacz wrote:Also, the idea of having a brachiosaur herd running around is so AWESOME that I'll let that float regardless of balance.
It's a matter of space too. The actual chances of accomplish this -AWESOME- combo are not so many IMHO.
So if it happens is more a "funny moment to remember", IMHO.
Yeah. It's hard to place five 20x20 creatures when you have to get them all within close range (a 95 foot radius centered on you by the time you can cast it). EDIT: Actually, short of there being terrain obstacles, that's pretty easy to do. I could create a line of such monsters right in front of me and they would all fit in the area.
In any case, that's why my abyssal summoner has reach spell. Now I can place them anywhere within a 270-foot radius of my position, which goes a long ways towards getting around said obstacles and also allows me to perform "snipe summons" from a far off hiding space. :D
Well, you could have no time for maneuvers. Or have not enough space, being underground in a tight place...
Tarlane |
I believe the conflict comes from the wording of things. Abyssal Summoning is supposed to work even if you are using a summon to pull a demon of the same level, you would get two of it. Superior Summoning is supposed to only work when you use a summon to pull multiples of lower level creatures.
Because of the wording Abyssal Summoning means that if you use summon monster 3 to pull a dretch, you get two dretches. Well, as written, because you are getting two creatures from your summons, superior summoning triggers and you get a 3rd one too.
I believe that the wording supports that, but it was accidental and the actual intended purpose is for superior summoning only to work when you summon off a lower level list.
Tandriniel |
I believe the conflict comes from the wording of things. Abyssal Summoning is supposed to work even if you are using a summon to pull a demon of the same level, you would get two of it. Superior Summoning is supposed to only work when you use a summon to pull multiples of lower level creatures.
Because of the wording Abyssal Summoning means that if you use summon monster 3 to pull a dretch, you get two dretches. Well, as written, because you are getting two creatures from your summons, superior summoning triggers and you get a 3rd one too.
I believe that the wording supports that, but it was accidental and the actual intended purpose is for superior summoning only to work when you summon off a lower level list.
A summoner needs a bit extra umph as he moves past the ability to use SM IX, especially in high powered games. The cieling of CR 14 is pretty final for the summoner.
In 3.5, playing around lvl 25, Summon Monster was almost useless (but also because a self-imposed ban on summoning evils...). I know this isn't 3.5, just saying...
Zolthux |
I don't feel like checking WBL and item prices atm, but can't you do this around level 11 by buying a robe of eldritch heritage to make your effective level 15?
So by level 11 you have like, spell focus (conjuration), augment summoning (which you got at level 7), and superior summons (which you take at level 9).
Hell, just take spell focus Necromancy and Skeletal summoner so you can summon Fiendish Skeletal dinosaurs
Benly |
Hell, just take spell focus Necromancy and Skeletal summoner so you can summon Fiendish Skeletal dinosaurs
What, and undo all that effort you put into getting so many of them? :)
Tip for would-be summoners: most summons, and dinosaurs especially, don't actually get more effective when you take away their Constitution bonus and natural armor.